Misfit effect of his own conditioned social sabotage in his own culture

[globalwonder]

There start being members from all around the world on this forum.
What connects them is being misfits in their own cultures.

When Winston and other people here talk about America withdrawing socialization from misfits more than other places, it might be true due the competitiveness there, but there might be a more universal pattern at play.
Namely, people who grow up in a culture, and then miraculously have a better experience in another culture might be experiencing this:
If you are different and grew up since childhood in a particular culture, experiencing large amounts of social exclusion, rejection and pain through the time of growing up, you will associate the negative attitude of people towards you with your own country, and when you go abroad, people do not react to you the same as you have been suffering throughout all your life growing up, because the other culture uses different punishment mechanisms, has different ways to determine who will be socially excluded, and will less likely identify you as a misfit as fast.

If you are raised in one country, you receive large amounts of rejection and social exclusion, and develop reactions to it anyway still somehow dependent on the culture concerned. Therefore when you get older and meet new people, their reaction keeps being negative toward you even though they are supposed to be strangers and should give you a new chance unlike all the people who had bullied you growing up.
I think in one's own country, one will with the higher reliability nevertheless keep getting negative stares, reactions, keep for of all cultures most reliable getting excluded - because every culture has a way misfits are conditioned and programmed to behave. It is the way one moves his body, the face has hundreds of muscles which one can not consciously control all the time - and every culture has very specific types of behavior which if you show to have, people automatically regard you as a person of those undesirable traits.
If you feel uncomfortable, socially anxious and so on (these all being emotions which resulted from long term social exclusion in your home country), anytime you have these feelings in its society, people in your own country are 10 times faster to identify these emotions within you and without you saying a word or asking for it, they will simply treat you according to this.

My conclusion is that a misfit will struggle most with his own country (or in the cultural region if near countries have related culture). I personally come from central Europe, a place Winston and others here might see as far more friendly than America. Maybe in many ways from an unbiased perspective or the perspective of an Asian or an American it is quite a free society. On the other hand, for me as a misfit, believe it or not, it is easier to have conversations and get romance from western girls like American, west Europe, than those from Slavic countries and before all locally here.

It is the biggest paradox. Had I been born in America, I am not saying I would not have Winston's experience. But what I am saying is it really depends on where you are from. Even if Winston is a misfit in America, he still is programmed to speak the language like a native and have a very usual American intonation. Even this intonation turns a misfit's speech against himself. The way he is forced to speak based on past trauma reminds every new American he meets of his social standing - because he can not control the way his speech's vibe is socially received. Locals are the ones best at identifying who is an outcast merely by the way he learned to express himself (excluded person in culture A grows up to be only able to express himself in a way with which he always appears inferior and unattractive to girls of his own culture). If you are a foreigner somewhere, people will far less likely judge you for being different, because even if you were different in your country of origin, in another culture you are always expected to behave different from locals, even if you had no differences in your home country.

Therefore I can announce many misfits from Europe miraculously might do well with western women, while Slavic ones will dismiss them as insecure, weird and awkward, with no benefit of doubt or excuse, just like happens to misfits who were born in America and then they experience a similar treatment overseas.

[Winston]

This is an interesting theory globalwonder. Did you come up with it yourself or did you read about it somewhere? True body language speaks volumes and is unconscious. But this is a chicken or egg problem. How much of your thoughts and behaviors and body language determines how other treat you? It's not clear. If your theory is true, then I could act confident in America and get girls that way. But that doesn't work because confidence has to be based on something real. Just acting confidence doesn't do anything. An ugly guy can act confidence but it doesn't make him attractive, it just makes him an annoying loud person. I don't think it's that simple. I think there are intangible factors.

The matrix also seems to assign your destiny to you too. For example when I was in 4th grade suddenly I had a loser status, as if the matrix assigned it to me and everyone played along with it because most people are NPCs and follow whatever the simulation says, just like in a video game. Or it was a divine curse. I don't know. All I know is that suddenly all 30 kids in my class didn't like me and were hostile to me and persecuted me. It made me depressed everyday but I had no power to change it and no one cared. How to explain that? Even intellectuals like my friend @publicduende have never been able to explain it. My friend @Lucas88 has many deep explanations though, most of which involves having asperger's.

What about you @globalwonder? Are you a misfit in Europe? If so, how did it happen? When did it start? Did you feel you had a choice of whether to be normal or a misfit? Or was it all just pushed upon you out of nowhere? Usually European kids are down to earth. Did any psychologist tell you that you have asperger's? Whether we have autism or not, we are definitely not neurotypical here. We must be neurodivergent in some way. But the question is: Did being ostracized cause us to be neurodivergent or the other way around? This is a chicken or egg problem. It could be that our souls are different from others too, not just our brains.

What happens when you go to another European country? Do you notice a difference?

[Lucas88]

I'm a misfit in my own country (UK). In my case I'm neurodivergent and speak with some level of dysprosody, although I suspect that the latter has more to do with ASD itself rather than a history of social trauma.

In light of my neurodivergence and dysprosody, I absolutely don't feel comfortable interacting with British people most of the time. It's as though they can tell that I'm atypical and different and view me as weird because of it. I much prefer speaking foreign languages and interacting with non-British people — the foreign language serves to mask my usual awkwardness to a degree while non-British people don't act as judgemental towards me.

However, I think that there are multiple layers to this question rather than simply a foreign language masking my awkwardness or non-British people not perceiving me as a misfit:

1. Some cultures — e.g., Spain, Mexico, Brazil, etc. — are more open-minded and tolerant of individual quirks and don't punish social awkwardness or ASD traits as harshly as cold, mechanical, conformist cultures do. This has certainly been my experience.

2. Speaking Spanish — or more recently Portuguese — changes my personality 180º. I immediately become far more sociable and vibrant. Even speaking Japanese during my year-long stint in Japan brought me out of my shell a bit more than when I'm speaking English.

3. When I'm in a fun and vivacious country like Spain, I feel a lot more energized and motivated to engage with other people, which in turn serves to bring out my better traits.

Nevertheless, my problem with British people still stands and I feel the need to avoid them due to their perception of me as a misfit and my inability to mask during interactions with them.

Curiously, I feel considerably more comfortable with Americans than I do with British people. My conversations with them tend to flow better and I don't feel like I'm being constantly judged and walking on eggshells.

[Prince of Cups]

I'm a misfit in my own country (UK). In my case I'm neurodivergent and speak with some level of dysprosody, although I suspect that the latter has more to do with ASD itself rather than a history of social trauma.

In light of my neurodivergence and dysprosody, I absolutely don't feel comfortable interacting with British people most of the time. It's as though they can tell that I'm atypical and different and view me as weird because of it. I much prefer speaking foreign languages and interacting with non-British people — the foreign language serves to mask my usual awkwardness to a degree while non-British people don't act as judgemental towards me.

However, I think that there are multiple layers to this question rather than simply a foreign language masking my awkwardness or non-British people not perceiving me as a misfit:

1. Some cultures — e.g., Spain, Mexico, Brazil, etc. — are more open-minded and tolerant of individual quirks and don't punish social awkwardness or ASD traits as harshly as cold, mechanical, conformist cultures do. This has certainly been my experience.

2. Speaking Spanish — or more recently Portuguese — changes my personality 180º. I immediately become far more sociable and vibrant. Even speaking Japanese during my year-long stint in Japan brought me out of my shell a bit more than when I'm speaking English.

3. When I'm in a fun and vivacious country like Spain, I feel a lot more energized and motivated to engage with other people, which in turn serves to bring out my better traits.

Nevertheless, my problem with British people still stands and I feel the need to avoid them due to their perception of me as a misfit and my inability to mask during interactions with them.

Curiously, I feel considerably more comfortable with Americans than I do with British people. My conversations with them tend to flow better and I don't feel like I'm being constantly judged and walking on eggshells.

British people are mostly uneducated morons. Don't feel upset that you struggle to interact with these inbred loons. Most of them have nothing interesting to say anyway.

[globalwonder]

This is an interesting theory globalwonder. Did you come up with it yourself or did you read about it somewhere? True body language speaks volumes and is unconscious. But this is a chicken or egg problem. How much of your thoughts and behaviors and body language determines how other treat you? It's not clear. If your theory is true, then I could act confident in America and get girls that way. But that doesn't work because confidence has to be based on something real. Just acting confidence doesn't do anything. An ugly guy can act confidence but it doesn't make him attractive, it just makes him an annoying loud person. I don't think it's that simple. I think there are intangible factors.

The matrix also seems to assign your destiny to you too. For example when I was in 4th grade suddenly I had a loser status, as if the matrix assigned it to me and everyone played along with it because most people are NPCs and follow whatever the simulation says, just like in a video game. Or it was a divine curse. I don't know. All I know is that suddenly all 30 kids in my class didn't like me and were hostile to me and persecuted me. It made me depressed everyday but I had no power to change it and no one cared. How to explain that? Even intellectuals like my friend @publicduende have never been able to explain it. My friend @Lucas88 has many deep explanations though, most of which involves having asperger's.

What about you @globalwonder? Are you a misfit in Europe? If so, how did it happen? When did it start? Did you feel you had a choice of whether to be normal or a misfit? Or was it all just pushed upon you out of nowhere? Usually European kids are down to earth. Did any psychologist tell you that you have asperger's? Whether we have autism or not, we are definitely not neurotypical here. We must be neurodivergent in some way. But the question is: Did being ostracized cause us to be neurodivergent or the other way around? This is a chicken or egg problem. It could be that our souls are different from others too, not just our brains.

What happens when you go to another European country? Do you notice a difference?

I have had issues with being treated as a misfit my whole life but the similar thing with sudden changes at a certain time like your case in some class, that also seemed to happen at some point/points.
It seems when others grew up, the free souls stayed true and same and those who got corrupted changed into the new characters that started to dislike the souls who stayed same all along.

Anyway, the main point is, I think if you come here Winston, as you are, to Czech Republic, you might be not having that many social issues again like you got in east Europe. People here will not see your behavior as outright repulsive, they might see it a bit out of ordinary, but nothing to reject and highly isolate from. Then for me, this same might go elsewhere, the more distant culture the better. In Czech Republic I am automatically treated negatively and isolated, never got dates, only flakes from cold approaches. I used pickup techniques but if someone really liked me, they would reciprocate anyway. And then once I met an American girl and it went well, so that is a surprise that a Czech girl never kissed me...

So you see, it is hard to get out of the matrix my own country created for me. The best solution would be to absolutely internalize the way people talk and behave in a distinct culture, like Spain or somewhere else. Then if I use their culture, I am not hurt by Czech Republic's culture and I can be treated more equally, maybe.

Another thing can be looks, but I think there is no way they can have such an impact.. After all, I scored with an American girl here after being constantly isolated in Czech Republic's culture.

If I want to get a date with a girl here and not be lonely before I travel to another culture again, any suggestions?

[publicduende]

The matrix also seems to assign your destiny to you too. For example when I was in 4th grade suddenly I had a loser status, as if the matrix assigned it to me and everyone played along with it because most people are NPCs and follow whatever the simulation says, just like in a video game. Or it was a divine curse. I don't know. All I know is that suddenly all 30 kids in my class didn't like me and were hostile to me and persecuted me. It made me depressed everyday but I had no power to change it and no one cared. How to explain that? Even intellectuals like my friend @publicduende have never been able to explain it. My friend @Lucas88 has many deep explanations though, most of which involves having asperger's.

@Winston how to explain bullying? It happens everywhere in the world, to a good 50% of the kids, I would say, boys and girls alike. Schools are the first social playground for children. That's where they learn that life isn't the cocoon their parents made for them. They can't have whatever they want. Their behaviours will have to stand against peer scrutiny, against what's cool, what's smart, what's trendy.

There will always be a minority of kids who seem to "get" all this, by nature or nurture. Maybe these kids have the right mix of looks and personality, they instinctively understand that, to be on top of their game, they need to comply to certain standards and cliches. In the US it might be being part of the football or swimming team, having a flashy car or a big house that can be used for parties, I don't know.

Even confronting the bully is sometimes not enough to redeem oneself. You might get to be left alone, for a while, but that won't turn you into the "popular kid".

All I have learned from bullying and being bullied during my junior high school and senior high school is that we are what we are. The second most important thing is to ignore the bullying or react to make sure you don't get picked every single time. On my first year of senior high school I once got my pocket calculator smashed by a kid who loved being a bully. The following time he tried to touch my stuff I grabbed his designer glasses off his face and smashed them to the floor. Poor bastard turned into a poodle of tears because he couldn't see well for the rest of the day.

The first most important thing is not to comply to the "law of the bully" and continue to be whoever you are, or whoever you want to be. Since I was 10 or 11 I loved programming computers and playing videogames, two hobbies that were considered the apex of nerdiness, weirdness, back then. Even though I stopped playing videogames pretty early on, programming computers is what I do for a living and without the head start of learning early, I would have probably not become what I am now.

Bullies and "normies" doing stuff that is cool at the time don't necessarily turn into successful people. Most of the bullies I know from my school have, in fact, really not gone anywhere particularly high with their lives. They turned out normal, mediocre, "compliant". People who managed to forge ahead and built their personalities based on what they really desired to do, are those who zoomed ahead.

[kangarunner]

On my first year of senior high school I once got my pocket calculator smashed by a kid who loved being a bully. The following time he tried to touch my stuff I grabbed his designer glasses off his face and smashed them to the floor. Poor bastard turned into a poodle of tears because he couldn't see well for the rest of the day.

Fighting instinct. This is where having a father who teaches their son how to fight and stand up for themselves is important. The ones who aren't taught fighting get picked on and develop trauma for the rest of their lives.

Bullies and "normies" doing stuff that is cool at the time don't necessarily turn into successful people. Most of the bullies I know from my school have, in fact, really not gone anywhere particularly high with their lives. They turned out normal, mediocre, "compliant".

I could never understand why some of the normies from my boring-ass hometown in TN stayed there all their life. Completely baffled by why they never had the seed planted in their mind to go out and explore other states or get their passport. They just stay in the same place. And they will die in the same hometown. A boring end to their existence. Sometimes I wonder if some of the things Winston tells me about some people not having souls is true. Or if the NPC theory is true.

I told Winston that I used to be an unaware NPC myself before 30. But then someone asked me to travel outside the US and that's when my mind started to become free from the prison matrix of the United States.

[Lucas88]

Fighting instinct. This is where having a father who teaches their son how to fight and stand up for themselves is important. The ones who aren't taught fighting get picked on and develop trauma for the rest of their lives.

This is 100% correct and exactly reflects my own experience.

If you don't want to get bullied, learn to fight and then most bullies will leave you alone.

When I entered secondary school at age 11, I was a bit of a weird kid, with undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, and a lot of the nastier kids called me names, tried to intimidate me or started fights with me. However, towards the end of secondary school, I began training in Brazilian Jiujitsu and subsequently had a few fights and beat up the would-be bullies. After that, nobody dared to mess with me. Even the nastiest bullies left me alone out of fear, a quality which inspires respect, at least at the primitive level of social dominance dynamics.

In hindsight, I wish that I had begun learning Muay Thai much earlier, at around the same time I began Jiujitsu. I would have loved to smash up some of the bullies with low-leg kicks, knees and elbows — in addition to taking them down and armbarring or choking them. It would have been so much fun. But alas, I didn't get involved in Muay Thai until my late 20s.

Coming back to the topic of bullying, I don't think that in most cases bullies even care about the fact that their victim is weird or a misfit. That is just a pretext. What they really look for is weakness — an opportunity to make another feel small so that they can assert dominance in whatever social hierarchy they find themselves. The key is not to show weakness and to instead show the capacity for violence.

[kangarunner]

This is 100% correct and exactly reflects my own experience.

If you don't want to get bullied, learn to fight and then most bullies will leave you alone.

When I entered secondary school at age 11, I was a bit of a weird kid, with undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, and a lot of the nastier kids called me names, tried to intimidate me or started fights with me. However, towards the end of secondary school, I began training in Brazilian Jiujitsu and subsequently had a few fights and beat up the would-be bullies. After that, nobody dared to mess with me. Even the nastiest bullies left me alone out of fear, a quality which inspires respect, at least at the primitive level of social dominance dynamics.

In hindsight, I wish that I had begun learning Muay Thai much earlier, at around the same time I began Jiujitsu. I would have loved to smash up some of the bullies with low-leg kicks, knees and elbows — in addition to taking them down and armbarring or choking them. It would have been so much fun. But alas, I didn't get involved in Muay Thai until my late 20s.

Coming back to the topic of bullying, I don't think that in most cases bullies even care about the fact that their victim is weird or a misfit. That is just a pretext. What they really look for is weakness — an opportunity to make another feel small so that they can assert dominance in whatever social hierarchy they find themselves. The key is not to show weakness and to instead show the capacity for violence.

Glad to hear that.

Any father that doesn't put their son in wrestling or jiu jitsu at an early age is doing them a great disservice that will effect them negatively in the future.

So like you said, you handled it yourself and the bullies backed down.

My problem is that I still have mental trauma and issues still to this day at 39 from a dumbass in Tennessee. The thing is. I looked him up. Divorced. He's on his second wife now. 2 kids with the first woman and 1 kid with the second woman. Lives in the same boring ass town and does the same boring shit.

I plan on going back to TN and confronting him in person. He's 47 now. I'm 39. By the time I confront him he'll probably be 49 or 50. So he'll be a lot slower than he was 16 years ago and probably less aggressive. I'm gonna really give him something he'll never forget. I probably fantasize every day of violent fantasies in my mind about hurting him. All kinds of things that you see in movies. Tying him up and torturing him LOL. I just want to hear him scream in agony. I would laugh so long and hard. That would be deeply satisfying. In fact, that would be more satisfying than all the crazy sex I've had here in Asia. I wouldn't even mind going to hell if there is a place as long as I could hear him scream in agony. LOL

[Lucas88]

Any father that doesn't put their son in wrestling or jiu jitsu at an early age is doing them a great disservice that will effect them negatively in the future.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, society is getting more pussified with Gen Z's "safe spaces" and tech addiction, with many preferring to live in digital fantasy worlds instead of real life, but any dad worth his salt should indeed be putting his kids in Wrestling, Jiujitsu or Kickboxing practice at an early age so that they learn toughness, discipline, mental fortitude, and how to deal with bullies.

At age 8, when I was in primary school, my parents put me in Karate practice so that I could stand up to the bullies. Unfortunately, martial arts weren't as good back then, but at least my parents had the right idea. However, when I was in secondary school and learned about Jiujitsu, I had the strong intuition that I needed to study it and insisted that my parents let me attend classes. That was back when Jiujitsu was still an obscure niche discipline.

I plan on going back to TN and confronting him in person. He's 47 now. I'm 39. By the time I confront him he'll probably be 49 or 50. So he'll be a lot slower than he was 16 years ago and probably less aggressive. I'm gonna really give him something he'll never forget. I probably fantasize every day of violent fantasies in my mind about hurting him. All kinds of things that you see in movies. Tying him up and torturing him LOL. I just want to hear him scream in agony. I would laugh so long and hard. That would be deeply satisfying. In fact, that would be more satisfying than all the crazy sex I've had here in Asia. I wouldn't even mind going to hell if there is a place as long as I could hear him scream in agony. LOL

Dude, this post is funny as f**k!

I must admit that I too have a violent imagination and often fantasize about beating up or even physically torturing people who have wronged me in the past.

Since you're in Southeast Asia, you could even do some Muay Thai training camps with a professional instructor in Thailand to learn some combat skills and get prepared for when you go back to Tennessee to beat up your former boss. You'll be learning combos, hitting pads, sparring and getting in top physical shape while that redneck bumpkin will probably be getting even more obese on Tennessee pig slop, smoking cigarettes, and wrecking his liver with Jack Daniels. Lmao!