The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I would like find out about Seeking Arrangement in the USA. CE, you've had 2 years. How was it? What was you success ratio with it? How many girls did you have to chat with online to get a date? How many duds did you have to take out to get one good one? What percentage produced sex? What arrangements did you have to do to get success? How many dates did that take? How much did it cost you? Give us some field reports about your two years of using Seeking Arrangement.

I answered some of these questions in my previous post in this thread. But I will add some more thoughts here.

You will probably have to view 20 or more profiles on Seeking or Tinder to find one worth meeting, then send 10 messages to set up one initial meet and greet date at a coffee shop, and then maybe 10 such dates to find a good match (some of the dates may flake, be prepared for that). So there needs to be a pool of several thousand girls in your city. Same grind as regular dating. Which is why I recommend long term relationships: finding a good sugar baby is as difficult as finding a good regular girlfriend or wife, so when you do find one, stick with her if possible.

You can have a harem of sugar babies if you can afford it, or stick with one. In either case, you can negotiate for her to be monogamous with you if you are very worried about STDs and you trust her to stick to the agreement of monogamy. I just use a condom and don't worry about herpes and other things condoms don't protect against. If you already have herpes, probably should give her your test results to avoid a lawsuit.

You can't buy love or sexual attraction. Personally, I just pass if the girl doesn't immediately show physical attraction to me at our first date. Get in good physical shape (not fat, some muscles, good haircut or maybe shaved head if balding), wear nice clothes, etc. Plus you need some game. Don't come across as a desperate, needy, slobbering fool with no sexual experience, no sexual options, etc. Don't explicitly discuss sex. Talk about the money you are offering, emphasizing the yearly amount, which is more impressive. If she doesn't act enthusiastic, back off.

I suggest offering $200-$300 for 2-3 hours, meeting once weekly. Put the money on the table, spread out so she can hunt by eye ($100 bills best), and tell her it remains there until after sex and she can pick it up on her way out. This way, if she doesn't carry through with the sex, no money. Meeting only once a week keeps the interest level high longer. These prices are for flyover country, like Dallas lets say. Higher prices in expensive coastal cities. $200 * 52 weeks per year = $10400, $300 * 52 = $15600. If you aren't comfortable paying such amounts, then sugar dating probably won't work, since you'll start to resent the girl for being too expensive. As I see it, you can recoup much of this expense by not having a lavish lifestyle like some guys did to attract women. Drive a beater car, live in a dump apartment, etc. If living in a dump apartment, first few sex meetings should be at a mid-price hotel. Once she gets accustomed to receiving $200-$300 of hard cash, which most guys don't provide (most guys are pretend sugar daddies, not the real thing) then she'll be open to visiting a dump apartment.

Basically, sugar dating is the same as regular dating except you are making yourself more attractive by offering money. Thus you can get better quality or younger women than you would otherwise, and better attitudes from the women you get. If you are sexually unattractive or lack social skills, you're better off going with professional prostitutes.

The thoughts above are based on my actual experiences, confirmed by reading what other guys have said on various forums. It is possible my standards are higher than most guys and/or I am less attractive or have worse game than other guys. If so, then maybe guys with lower standards or more attractiveness and/or better game would have an easier time than I had. At this point, I have thrown in the towel on both regular and sugar dating in the USA, because it's too much effort for too little reward in the flyover city where I live when I'm not traveling. Offering more money than $300/meeting is unlikely to help, since my problem was not lack of candidates, even at $200/meeting, my problem was lack of quality candidates with whom there was mutual sexual attraction.

I am glad you chimed in with your approach. Every man has to find what works best for him and run with it. It takes some trial and error, but you certainly know when you've hit paydirt.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

To gain a better understanding of the Sugar Daddy phenomenon and why it has exploded in popularity, hypergamy is the concept that must be understood. This is a great explanation of hypergamy so as to enhance your success with women you'd like to "sugar."

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I made it clear that what triggered me was you starting making stupid assumptions........to reinforce your thesis that your lifestyle is a far superior expression of masculinity and masculine wisdom. To repeat myself, more power to you but, I am sorry, a man who remains a loving husband to his woman and a responsible father to his kids has far more of my respect and admiration. This is the way the cookie crumbles.

It is certainly far superior for me! But perhaps you secretly think so as well since you are so triggered by that thought which I don't even believe.

But let's be clear about your "respect and admiration." No one here needs it, nor is anyone looking for it. For you to even think that is important is narcissism on an almost clinical level.

You are the one who believes higher endeavours are not compatible with that of creating a family legacy. You are the one who believes that only an unmarried, childless man can fully enjoy the fruits of his hard work later in life. You are the one who believes that dodging the evil feminist state is the best thing you, therefore any man, can do. You are the one who is measuring his success all the time using the age of his conquests and the figures in his bank account. Or not?

How many articles have I published?

How many books have I written?

How many worthy causes do I fund?

How many careers have I succeeded in before breaking out on my own?

How many people seek out my counsel?

How many lives have I saved?

How many lives have I improved?

How many years have I had accredited Investor status with the SEC?

How many hedge funds contact me for pitch meetings each month?

How private equity firms contact me for pitch meetings each month?

You don't know! All you NEED to know is about the FREEDOM my lifestyle provides and why I think it is better than "the village husband and father" lifestyle that any ordinary man could do. All you can go by is what I have talked about on this forum, which is not much by design. But if you think you know enough about me to make such claims, it is obvious why you are a third world cook and not the renowned success you fancy yourself.

Again, no high-value man (cucks and low-tiered men I don't care about) should ever marry to protect his power, personal sovereignty and wealth. Raising kids in a domestic partnership abroad is another matter entirely if that is what he wants to do. Now if that gets your knickers in a knot where you have to obsessively question, distort, derail and emote like an effeminate dweeb, so be it.

I actually do know why you react that way, but you would never admit it......

[WorldTraveler]

Contrarian Expat and Shemp, thank you for the informative answers about SA. I am a beginner using dating apps because I have a problem with age. I am old, but look young, and apps require your age. An internet search in the US can quickly turn up my real age. While overseas I only used them a little, because the girls there were using beautify apps and looked nothing like their photos so felt the apps weren't that productive. I play hard on the ground and am successful enough not to have to use them, but I always felt I was missing most of the population.

Back to the USA, CE & Shemp you mentioned the quality on SE was not good and not worth the effort. Shemp you mentioned you finally gave up on the USA, because there just wasn’t the quality at any price. Thanks for the info.

CE you mentioned that just talking to waitresses, bartenders, and service girls (is this sales girls in stores?) gave you some prospects. I’m glad to hear, that telling a girl, “A girl like you should not have to work so hard. You should have a sugar daddy.” works. Over the years, I have gotten much less aggressive with all girls in the USA due to rape culture and the metoo movement. So do normal girls in normal jobs actually like the idea of a sugar daddy? They are not insulted by this statement? In the past I used to have some cute waitresses that I would show my travel photos to who showed interest. None ever said “I wish I could travel there too,” so I never pushed it. Maybe I was leaving some prospects on the table. Have you ever had any problems when saying this? I’ve gone to socials/meetups and been called out by the woman or beta male running the event for hitting on the women.

Do you feel that the youngest girls (18 – 25) make the best candidates for this kind of arrangement? I think most get more jaded and bitter with age. Also, they tend to like sex less every year they get older. I've also seen girls that looked great turn to below average in just a year by putting on weight or not taking care of themselves.

Shemp thanks for the hard numbers. CE and Shemp are you safe having these girls come back to where you live? I’m more concerned because I have a nice place. Have you actually gotten any naïve girls who are really just experimenting or do they tend to be hard core girls faking innocence?

Which cities do you think are the best for these attractive girls that are looking for sugar daddies? I know all cities are not created equal due to demographics, too wealthy, etc. CE, I saw on STW you mentioned living in Florida when in the US. Which cities do you prefer, because I had thought of making that state my US base? Also, what other cities in the US do you think offer the best options?

In the the USA, girls consider sugar babies to be the lucky ones. It has gone mainstream and as one girl told me last week, “It’s widespread.”

In Eastern Europe, the girls use the term “Sponsor.”

From a sociological point of view, there is some vacuum being filled in America by sugar daddies. I personally think it is a combination of things:

-Lack of younger guys actually seeking actual girlfriends.

-Lack of older, wiser male figures who these girls crave perhaps due to divorce or to having cucked fathers.

-Lack of assertive masculinity in the culture.

-Economic struggle to make ends meet among the poor, working, and even middle classes.

-FOMO (Fear of missing out).

CE, you mentioned that there is a vacuum in the US that Sugar Daddies fills. I have to agree that there are few younger alpha guys. Game is at an all-time low. I have met a dozen men with good jobs from men’s movement websites that all want girls, but I don’t think most will succeed, due to they won’t do the hard work it takes to get a girl. Oh, these are the less than 1% of men who actually claim they want a woman. The others have just given up and watch videos or play video games.

CE, you mention envy or jealousy. I do everything to avoid it now. If older women find out I date younger women, they hate me. They see me at meetups talking to them, and will make some kind of bitch comment. I’ve even lost guy friends telling them about traveling overseas or dating some younger woman. I no longer tell any male friends about travel or dating, unless I’ve met them overseas or they are doing it too.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Contrarian Expat and Shemp, thank you for the informative answers about SA. I am a beginner using dating apps because I have a problem with age. I am old, but look young, and apps require your age. An internet search in the US can quickly turn up my real age. While overseas I only used them a little, because the girls there were using beautify apps and looked nothing like their photos so felt the apps weren't that productive. I play hard on the ground and am successful enough not to have to use them, but I always felt I was missing most of the population.

Ageism is only really a problem in the USA. However young you look, put that as your age. If you establish an ongoing relationship with a girl, confess to her that you were dishonest and tell her your real age at that time.

If you are older, you have to polish your look, hit the gym, and look like you have some measure of success to you. Girls equate age with success and wealth, so you have to look the part.

CE you mentioned that just talking to waitresses, bartenders, and service girls (is this sales girls in stores?) gave you some prospects. I’m glad to hear, that telling a girl, “A girl like you should not have to work so hard. You should have a sugar daddy.” works. Over the years, I have gotten much less aggressive with all girls in the USA due to rape culture and the metoo movement. So do normal girls in normal jobs actually like the idea of a sugar daddy?

I only say things like that after having established some chit chat of rapport first. About the worst reaction I get is "I have a boyfriend" or "I'm married." Generally, those girls still appreciate that I validated their attractiveness.

The term "aggressive" is not what you want to use. I say be "confidently assertive" with a pleasing or joking demeanor. Yes, and normal girls do seem to like the attention even if they are not interested.

Do you feel that the youngest girls (18 – 25) make the best candidates for this kind of arrangement? I think most get more jaded and bitter with age. Also, they tend to like sex less every year they get older. I've also seen girls that looked great turn to below average in just a year by putting on weight or not taking care of themselves.

Absolutely, 100% yes! Older, less attractive women ironically try to get more money out of you and mistakenly assume they are higher value than younger women. The joke's on them.

And yes, younger girls often do turn average or worse in a year's time. It astounds me that girls I once went ga ga over, I would not be seen in public with them some years later.

Shemp thanks for the hard numbers. CE and Shemp are you safe having these girls come back to where you live? I’m more concerned because I have a nice place. Have you actually gotten any naïve girls who are really just experimenting or do they tend to be hard core girls faking innocence?

I usually meet the first time over coffee, give them a little money for their "travel costs," and either go to their place or my hotel afterwards. I then give them a little allowance so they can by books or supplies or whatever they might need.

I have a pretty good sense of what girls I don't want to move forward with. I choose the even keeled, girl next door types ONLY! No exceptions....
But I do have my second iPhone recording everything in my room just in case a false allegation came up. Never, ever needed to use that recording. Also, a record of all chats, texts, and messages are kept just to show police if it ever came to that. It never has.

If you treat these girls kindly and with respect, that will never happen. If you devalue or demean them, kick them out of your car or home, or insult them, watch out!

Innocence? What's that? There is no innocence involved here. You are being upfront and straightforward in what you are into, and about what you can provide. They are either into it, or not, but most girls find the being upfront very refreshing and say as much.

Which cities do you think are the best for these attractive girls that are looking for sugar daddies? I know all cities are not created equal due to demographics, too wealthy, etc. CE, I saw on STW you mentioned living in Florida when in the US. Which cities do you prefer, because I had thought of making that state my US base? Also, what other cities in the US do you think offer the best options?

Think any medium-sized college cities in the US South or in the midwest. Forget the north, and forget any place without universities around. No more north than North Carolina will do and no more south than Orlando, Florida will do. The mid west is good also....

CE, you mentioned that there is a vacuum in the US that Sugar Daddies fills. I have to agree that there are few younger alpha guys. Game is at an all-time low. I have met a dozen men from men’s movement websites that all want girls, but I don’t think most will succeed, due to they won’t do the hard work it takes to get a girl. Oh, these are the less than 1% of men who actually claim they want a woman. The others have just given up and watch videos or play video games.

All true which is why girls appreciate established men who WILL do all those things now.

CE, you mention envy or jealousy. I do everything to avoid it now. If older women find out I date younger women, they hate me. They see me at meetups talking to them, and will make some kind of bitch comment. I’ve even lost guy friends telling them about traveling overseas or dating some younger woman. I no longer tell any male friends about travel or dating, unless I’ve met them overseas or they are doing it too.

Of course, and get used to it. Both normie women AND normie men will hate you and will try to call you pedephile, a predator, a whoremonger, etc.
None of that is true, but it serves to guilt men away from doing it. You have to look at WHY people hate you for it. Women hate you for it because they are either unattractive, older or BOTH and they know that younger women being with older men locks them out of the sexual market. So it is in their interest to keep men from succeeding with younger, hotter girls.

Men often hate it because they are unhappily married, unsexed, undersexed, or they simply don't have the balls to pull it off. That being the case, they want to shame you away from enjoying your life in the ways they cannot. We have a couple on this site who behave like that out of envy; I need not mention any names.

If you are a man in America, no one wants you to get too much success above and beyond the norm. In fact, most want you to remain a second class citizen to women and serve as a tool for some woman and her children. If you recognize that for what it is, it will not only not affect you, but it will make you know that you are succeeding when you encounter it.

Good luck and get out there an practice building your rapport, your innocent compliments to girls, and your light/passive suggestions that these girls should have sugar daddies. Play with your language, your approaches, and your skills to find what works for you. Look high value, be charming and polite, and impervious to any negative feedback. Girls love it when you take rejection with a smile, a chuckle, and a charming comment. That shows high value like they have never ever seen.

One super hint that works for me: Try to never compliment a girl about anything concerning her body or beauty early on. BUT, try to compliment them on an article of clothing, her shoes, her bag, or manicure or anything else that she puts effort into. They LOVE that and beam with excitement at that. That is the greatest icebreaker that never has yielded a negative reaction!

Remember to keep it legal, never exchange money for sex (a general allowance or "financial help" solves that), and verify the ages of the younger looking ones.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

This is an older video, and one with a girl not attractive enough for me to be interested, but it is a good look into their thinking.

[Shemp]

Back to the USA, CE & Shemp you mentioned the quality on SE was not good and not worth the effort. Shemp you mentioned you finally gave up on the USA, because there just wasn’t the quality at any price. Thanks for the info.

Actually, quality is there if you are willing to go up a lot in price. Like $1000/meeting. Problem is that I don't think sex is worth that much, so I'd resent paying and that resentment would be obvious and set things off to a bad start. This is the underlying reason so many guys hate on P4P: they are poor and so any amount of payment causes resentment. For me, up to $300/meeting doesn't bother me, if the girl is young, but above that it does. For older women, I'm not sure what I'd be comfortable paying. Probably nothing. You have to figure your max number out by yourself. If the number is low, you probably need to go overseas for younger women.

If $1000/meet is okay, there is high quality on seeking, but it gets snapped up fast, at least where I live. Quality means the kinds of girls rich men in their 50's want predominately: age 18-25, slender, pretty, university students, well-mannered, etc. Girls like that usually do NOT need to sell themselves to older men because they have middle class parents giving them money. It's the lower class types who badly need money and lower class types simply don't mix that well with the true sugar daddies, who tend to be upper middle class. Think income polarization and hollowing out of the middle class. Now if you do have a thing for "thicc" lower class women, then you will be overwhelmed with choices.

Statistics that say more sugar babies than daddies are counting all the sugar babies, including skanky hoodrats, fatties, old women, scammers, plus the huge number of 18yo girls who think old men will send them money just for being pretty because sone instagram influencer told them so. There's also a lot of junk sugar daddies, meaning guys who ask for free samples and never plan to pay, though the steep monthly membership price of seeking.com for men tends to reduce their numbers.

BTW seeking.com will cancel your membership without refund for any complaint. So take conversations offline to google voice or whatever ASAP, then block the girl so she can't complain. Also block anyone who messages you unless you are interested.

CE you mentioned that just talking to waitresses, bartenders, and service girls (is this sales girls in stores?) gave you some prospects. I’m glad to hear, that telling a girl, “A girl like you should not have to work so hard. You should have a sugar daddy.” works. Over the years, I have gotten much less aggressive with all girls in the USA due to rape culture and the metoo movement. So do normal girls in normal jobs actually like the idea of a sugar daddy? They are not insulted by this statement?

Personally, I think CE is full of shit here. Internet is full of story tellers. RooshVForum used to have these guys talking about one 20yo HB after another from seeking.com jumping on their dick without asking for money just because they are alpha, and to be honest, CE reminds me of those guys with his talk of meeting all these young girls. Then again, he might be telling the truth. Some guys really are incredibly charismatic and attractive to young women.

Most girls would, indeed, be insulted by the idea that they are for sale. I was at Walmart today and saw this beautiful girl working in the produce section. I thought of CE and his stories. Suppose I went up and started chatting to this girl, turned the conversation to sugar daddies, etc, etc. Maybe it's just that I'm not that outgoing, but the whole thing sounds really cringe inducing. Old man (I'm 59) pestering some girl 40 years younger, offering money for sex. I can just see her laughing with the other workers after telling me no.

Now in Ukraine it's a different story. Girls there will invite me to approach with their eyes or perhaps ask questions when they detect I'm a foreigner from my accent. Without such an invitation, though, even in Ukraine, I would never do like CE says he does.

Do you feel that the youngest girls (18 – 25) make the best candidates for this kind of arrangement?

Who knows? Any guy who has lots of experience with different women is likely a failure with women, because he either goes for junk women who can't hold his interest, or he is a junk man who can't hold the woman's interest. Just like anyone with lots of experience starting different businesses is probably a serial business failure (though there are exceptions who can start businesses but not run them long-term). I met a bunch of very young women from seeking but the three that I actually had sex with were in their 30's. All of these women were compromises for me, hence I didn't stick with them. I met my Ukraine girl when she was 26. She's high quality, so I'm keeping her indefinitely. If we break up, it will be because I am junk in her eyes (unwilling to offer marriage and children, though it remains to be seen over the next few years if she wants marriage and children).

Also, what other cities in the US do you think offer the best options

If you want university girls, then best cities are those dominated by big universities (but not tech/military universities like Texas A&M) without a lot of rich men competition. Preferably lower cost of living so you can offer more than the other men. Avoid places like San Francisco where other men can throw around $1000 like confetti. For example, Gainesville Florida has the University of Florida but not much else in town. Should be excellent hunting there.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Most girls would, indeed, be insulted by the idea that they are for sale. I was at Walmart today and saw this beautiful girl working in the produce section. I thought of CE and his stories. Suppose I went up and started chatting to this girl, turned the conversation to sugar daddies, etc, etc. Maybe it's just that I'm not that outgoing, but the whole thing sounds really cringe inducing. Old man (I'm 59) pestering some girl 40 years younger, offering money for sex. I can just see her laughing with the other workers after telling me no.

Well, if I were offering money for sex as you describe, I would rightfully be kicked out the store and even arrested since that is illegal.

But I'll repeat the strategy for your sake since that went right over your head. You simply have chit chat, develop rapport, and suggest that a girl like her should not have to work so hard; they should have a sugar daddy. Then you give them your contact information and go. There is no mention of sex at that moment. There is no pestering of the girls who, by the way, love validating attention from men.

Also, why do you care if others laugh at you? I personally would not care, but it never happened to me.

You need to read Alan Roger Currie's Mode One approach. I think that would get you over the anxiety that makes you think it is implausible. At one time before I read that book, I would have agreed with you.

The other thing is I am only in my early 50s, but the TRT, my workout regimen, and my ethnic background ("Black don't crack" as the saying goes) have me appearing 10 to 15 years younger which are all things I can take advantage of for the moment. That being the case, you might have to dial it back more than I have to at this point. Perhaps just don't mention anything about a sugar daddy, and think of some other euphemism. But you have to find that balance that works for you and allows you to be comfortable enough to pull it off.

But there are things about your approach I do not like. For example, you are paying these girls amounts of money that I would NEVER pay! I pay no more than $100 per meet up or $400 per month which ensures that the girls are not ONLY in it for the money. A few girls balk at that amount, but they are essentially gold digger/prostitutes out for the money only. I let them go. $100 per meet up only works with the 18 to 23 years old girls and it is an incentive for them to come visit again and again. The older girls are more jaded and entitled and believe themselves higher in value than they actually are. Consequently, I put a cap at about age 24, yet I was with a young looking 28 year old 2 weeks ago in Alabama who needed help caring for her horses (so she said).

[hypermak]

It is certainly far superior for me! But perhaps you secretly think so as well since you are so triggered by that thought which I don't even believe.

But let's be clear about your "respect and admiration." No one here needs it, nor is anyone looking for it. For you to even think that is important is narcissism on an almost clinical level.

Relax, I was simply stating an opinion Until proven otherwise, this is an anoymous forum and my opinion is just as signficant as yours.

How many articles have I published?

How many books have I written?

How many worthy causes do I fund?

How many careers have I succeeded in before breaking out on my own?

How many people seek out my counsel?

How many lives have I saved?

How many lives have I improved?

How many years have I had accredited Investor status with the SEC?

How many hedge funds contact me for pitch meetings each month?

How private equity firms contact me for pitch meetings each month?

You don't know! All you NEED to know is about the FREEDOM my lifestyle provides and why I think it is better than "the village husband and father" lifestyle that any ordinary man could do. All you can go by is what I have talked about on this forum, which is not much by design. But if you think you know enough about me to make such claims, it is obvious why you are a third world cook and not the renowned success you fancy yourself.

I don't know what you did and don't care. None of your claims can be substantiated, you have to rely on your own opinions, like me and everyone else.

And again, resorting to slandering my profession and my life choices... Better as a third-world cook that a third-word pimp, at this point. Your writing pattern really shows that you are on some form of medication. One wrong word and you start being toxic again.

Again, no high-value man (cucks and low-tiered men I don't care about) should ever marry to protect his power, personal sovereignty and wealth. Raising kids in a domestic partnership abroad is another matter entirely if that is what he wants to do. Now if that gets your knickers in a knot where you have to obsessively question, distort, derail and emote like an effeminate dweeb, so be it.

I actually do know why you react that way, but you would never admit it......

A "high-value man" in my book is one who takes on the responsibility of sharing what he is building with significant others, a woman and his kids. It's not about protecting his power and personal sovereignty, it's about putting that power at the service of a purpose higher than himself. This is the notion you can't even begin to entertain...

This is what I think and is not changing. Why do you think world societies have always given credit and respect who good family man, perhaps until very recently?

You really think you're on the cusp of revolutionary thinking because you are full of red pill ideas, withdrawn from any responsibility towards society or a family, and chose to spend your time and money pimping Eastern European chicks. Well, like I said, good for you!

I am not criticising your life choice, as you are criticising me just because I cook meals. I am just saying you won't get much respect outside perhaps the fringes of the Internet like this forum. Your arrogant and know-it-all attitude is just a giveaway that most of what you say might just be in your mind, and in your mind alone. It's obvious to anyone that you're here to seek validation.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

It is certainly far superior for me! But perhaps you secretly think so as well since you are so triggered by that thought which I don't even believe.

But let's be clear about your "respect and admiration." No one here needs it, nor is anyone looking for it. For you to even think that is important is narcissism on an almost clinical level.

Relax, I was simply stating an opinion Until proven otherwise, this is an anoymous forum and my opinion is just as signficant as yours.

How many articles have I published?

How many books have I written?

How many worthy causes do I fund?

How many careers have I succeeded in before breaking out on my own?

How many people seek out my counsel?

How many lives have I saved?

How many lives have I improved?

How many years have I had accredited Investor status with the SEC?

How many hedge funds contact me for pitch meetings each month?

How private equity firms contact me for pitch meetings each month?

You don't know! All you NEED to know is about the FREEDOM my lifestyle provides and why I think it is better than "the village husband and father" lifestyle that any ordinary man could do. All you can go by is what I have talked about on this forum, which is not much by design. But if you think you know enough about me to make such claims, it is obvious why you are a third world cook and not the renowned success you fancy yourself.

I don't know what you did and don't care. None of your claims can be substantiated, you have to rely on your own opinions, like me and everyone else.

And again, resorting to slandering my profession and my life choices... Better as a third-world cook that a third-word pimp, at this point. Your writing pattern really shows that you are on some form of medication. One wrong word and you start being toxic again.

Again, no high-value man (cucks and low-tiered men I don't care about) should ever marry to protect his power, personal sovereignty and wealth. Raising kids in a domestic partnership abroad is another matter entirely if that is what he wants to do. Now if that gets your knickers in a knot where you have to obsessively question, distort, derail and emote like an effeminate dweeb, so be it.

I actually do know why you react that way, but you would never admit it......

A "high-value man" in my book is one who takes on the responsibility of sharing what he is building with significant others, a woman and his kids. It's not about protecting his power and personal sovereignty, it's about putting that power at the service of a purpose higher than himself. This is the notion you can't even begin to entertain...

This is what I think and is not changing. Why do you think world societies have always given credit and respect who good family man, perhaps until very recently?

You really think you're on the cusp of revolutionary thinking because you are full of red pill ideas, withdrawn from any responsibility towards society or a family, and chose to spend your time and money pimping Eastern European chicks. Well, like I said, good for you!

I am not criticising your life choice, as you are criticising me just because I cook meals. I am just saying you won't get much respect outside perhaps the fringes of the Internet like this forum. Your arrogant and know-it-all attitude is just a giveaway that most of what you say might just be in your mind, and in your mind alone. It's obvious to anyone that you're here to seek validation.

Some weeks ago you were bragging about how you were banging hot Filipina girls and easy girls is why you moved to the Philipinnes. But now, you are behaving as if that is somehow "immoral" and you're trying to besmirch what other men do with women.

Talk about needing medication.... Sheesh.

I think you've exhausted my interest in interacting with you. Losers who simply argue for the sake of arguing no matter how badly they contradict themselves are a waste of time.

Back on ignore you go......

[hypermak]

Some weeks ago you were bragging about how you were banging hot Filipina girls and easy girls is why you moved to the Philipinnes. But now, you are behaving as if that is somehow "immoral" and you're trying to besmirch what other men do with women.

I never said what I do in the Philippines or you do in Ukraine is immoral. Unlike you calling me a "third-world cook", I have no judgment on your past or present life. Once again, hopefully last time, my judgment falls when you look down on people who have the guts to take the responsibility of raising a family - via marriage or domestic partnership, that is a detail - and call them simps and cucks, without even making any distinctions.

At this point you can see that even members like @Shemp who are mildly interested in your predicament, are starting to doubt that much of what you say is true.

I think you've exhausted my interest in interacting with you. Losers who simply argue for the sake of arguing no matter how badly they contradict themselves are a waste of time.

Back on ignore you go......

The contradictions are in your mind. Very few people see a contradiction in being a proud and resposible man and work hard to raise your own family. Whay many people see, here and probably outside this forum if this is the way you discuss with them, is that you can't prove how proud, successful and charismatic you are without calling people who don't buy your movie "losers", "cucks" and similar.

You know what they say...extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Yours don't stand on a toe.

Goodbye and good riddance...once again

[WorldTraveler]

CE, I agree that I should just use the age that I think I look (or girls have told me that I look) on a dating sites and then later tell them the truth if a relationship develops. I had done this when meeting younger girls at meetups. None ever lasted long enough to need to tell them my real age.

I agree with both you than the Southeast and second tier cities are the best place for potential women. The largest cities have too much money and serious traffic problems. I would agree with Florida north of Orlando to North Carolina. I think it could be pushed to Richmond which is a good small city. I think Gainesville, FL would be a good place, but have never played there. What about Nashville? Are Dallas or Houston good or are they too big and women too entitled? I do not know about the Midwest. Years ago, I frequented St. Louis. I would agree that larger money cities are not good. Three years ago, I moved from a more rural setting outside of a major city to nearer the city. The quality of waitresses and possibilities really dropped too. So being too close to money and opportunity, kills SA opportunities. PUA sites seem to be stuck on Miami, Las Vegas, and NYC as great places to pull chicks. So how do you guys feel about these places? I think they are only places to see many women and blow a lot of money.

Shemp, I do not like thick women. I must be in a minority, because what I see in strip clubs in the US is that thick and really fat women get a tremendous amount of money and the thin girls get less. CE, what kind of girls do you like?

Shemp, I tend to agree with you that middle classed girls are not in desperate need of money and dick. I see that many of these girls tend to be asexual, based on friends that have daughters who are in college now and never seem to date.

Shemp and CE were the chicks you were meeting really college girls needing money to pay for college or just pretenders? The chicks I’ve met that are eager are not college girls, but girls who are young, few skills, and many are single mothers. They may mention college but few have taken more than one course.

Shemp I totally agree with you about the RooshVForum has many, bullshitter guys saying they were getting sex from SA girls for free, just due to their superior Game skills. These guys are the same guys living in their parents’ basements making this shit up. One of these RVF guys wrote a book about his SA experiences. I met him in person and he is about 25 and I know it never happened. No girl is stupid enough to believe he is a multi-millionaire entrepreneur and give it away for free because she thinks he’s rich and just wants to hang around him and learn. Of course. I never bought his book.

So CE, are you cold approaching these girls? How long would you have to talk to them, before you would bring up the sugar daddy option? I’m shocked that a girl in a department store or waitress would even know what a sugar daddy is. Seriously, do most girls know what this is and they don’t get insulted? CE how did you meet your SA girl in Alabama?

Maybe I’m too shy, and especially shy now due to the metoo movement reclassifying approaching, as “sexual harassment.” I think it is a crime now in some places, thus I am much more apprehensive.

CE $100 a meeting and $400 a month allowance sounds really low. I can’t imagine highly attractive girls wanting to meet for so little. Maybe I’m frequenting the wrong cities and places then. I’d think I’d have to find some real country bumpkins who don’t know their worth that want to give it up for $100 a week in allowance.

CE, you recommended that SA video of the girl talking about SA. I find that one and others done by women somewhat like promotional videos for SA. I had watched many of them several years back when I first heard of SA.

CE, what are the best Alan Roger Currie videos? Which ones convinced you that you can tell a girl that you just met that you want to be her sugar Daddy?

[Shemp]

I think Gainesville, FL would be a good place, but have never played there. What about Nashville? Are Dallas or Houston good or are they too big and women too entitled?

Problem with Dallas, Houston, Nashville is that there is a lot going on in these cities, hence lots of competition from other men with money aged 40-59. That competition raises prices for everything, from housing costs to girl costs. By contrast, Gainesville has a very low cost of living and population of 133,857, while University of Florida has 52,492 on-campus students, all this according to Wikipedia as of 2018. Granted, metropolitan area has higher population than city itself, but still, clearly a huge percent of the population is students and there is really nothing else going on in that city but the university, so not a lot of other sugar daddies. Perfect hunting ground in other words, ASSUMING you're willing to arrange your life around access to university girls by moving to this nowheresville city.

To some extent, I arrange my summers around access to the p***y market of Kyiv, Ukraine, but I'm not willing to do that for the months I'm in the USA. Maybe in the future I'll move to someplace like Gainesville. Where I currently live for the 2 months each year that I'm stationary in the USA is a bad hunting ground. There is a local university, but its just a small part of the economy and there are tons of rich men aged 40-59, so quality girls get snapped up fast and prices are bid up. $300/meeting of 2-3 hours is just squeaking by, but as I mentioned before, I am not comfortable paying more.

Shemp and CE were the chicks you were meeting really college girls needing money to pay for college or just pretenders? The chicks I’ve met that are eager are not college girls, but girls who are young, few skills, and many are single mothers. They may mention college but few have taken more than one course.

I met a bunch of girls from seeking.com (back when it was called seekingarrangement.com), including many girls aged 20-22. Some of these were indeed attending the university, some were single mothers (knocked up at age 19 then abandoned), some were bumming around mixing low-skill low-paid jobs with sugar babying (aka semi-pro escorting). I don't have a fetish for age and I am picky about a real connection. These girls aged 20-22 just seemed empty inside. We had nothing to say to one another, they had no sexual interest in me from what I could tell, and I wasn't even that interested in them.

One of the 22yo girls bumming around was a legitimate HB10. My profile then listed minimal, or $1000/month, as my lifestyle budget (they no longer have this profile option because of the SESTA rules) so I'm not sure why she met me, since I could sense this girl knew her market value and $300/meet (or $5000/year since I was only in town part year) wasn't going to cut it with her. (Of course, for someone like ContrarianExpatriate, with debonair suavity, TRT enhanced animal magnetism, alpha male game, etc, etc, maybe she'd be paying him for the privilege of sampling his legendary black man endowment.) More like $5000/month plus apartment, plus car, plus dining out and travel, etc, etc. Indeed, a few weeks later I saw her driving in a new car, probably given to her by some other sugar daddy. Later still, I noticed her profile was logged in from Australia and there were some new photos of her on a yacht with an Australian flag, so maybe some rich guy there flew her in.

I met all these girls for initial meet and greet at Starbucks and typically couldn't wait for 10 minutes to pass so I could dismiss them without being rude, that's how boring most of then were to me. (Naturally, I got burnt several times by SIFs, secret internet fatties, who had mastered the art of deceptive photography, and also got flaked on several times.) Nowadays, I'd probably insist on video calling first to reduce wasted meet and greets.

The 3 young women I actually found interesting and attractive enough to pursue were all in their young 30's. One was a PhD postdoc in life sciences, making like $30K/year on a research contract that couldn't be renewed, so she was desperately looking for another such contract. I think I mentioned in another thread how she was trying to get pregnant by me so as to get on child support. Very pretty and intelligent, though not enough street sense to see that a PhD is no ticket to a secure life. Second was a yoga instructor working long hours fur sub-minimum wage income after all said and done. Also pretty and great body of course. Third was real estate agent/investor about to lose a bunch of houses she had mortgages on, and probably approaching personal bankruptcy too. This was back during the early 2010's, when real estate prices were still down because of the 2008 crisis. She had borrowed big to buy these houses before the crisis hit. (Assuming she held on, she'd be well off by now. since prices have since recovered and then some.)

All these women probably saw me as a financial life raft to cling to and I maybe was panicking at the thought of somehow getting stuck wth them forever, and this made the relationship stressful so that I couldn't wait to escape. Thet were all physically attractive, but I didn't really like being around them for long and didn't feel the sense of comfort I feel with that girl in Ukraine. So that's my experiences.

[Winston]

But I would hardly think that would be any kind of  ”upgrade”  to raising my own biological offspring given the success that runs in my family history.

Whitey keeps on handing you those bananas.

Cornfed, please stop using racial slurs against other forum members. Especially veteran ones. That's uncalled for. You will receive a warning on your account. Thanks.

[WorldTraveler]

Shemp, thank you for the great info on Seeking Arrangement and the actual examples from your experience with it.

Yes, I think Gainville, FL would be a great place to give a try to. It is also near the beaches of Jacksonville and Daytona Beach, so you could play on women there too. Florida seems to attract many lower classed girls who a trying to find themselves, but have few skills. I think they end up there, because it's far away, the weather is good, and it's inexpensive to live.

CE, Shemp since you both think Seeking is not good anymore, what site would be better? I see Adultfriendfinder advertised. What is that? Which dating apps have worked for you in to find girls? Is one any better than the rest?