Polygamy and polyamory for men in a healthy society, including traditionalist

[WilliamSmith]

A quick update on this: I have learned a bit about the West African nations where polygamy is still practiced, and while it's not out of the question, there is often a whole bunch of drama with the different wives being upset and jealous and squabbling with the other wives.
Yeah, sounds totally obvious, but hey, if you're born in a land where the men are masculine enough but you still hear total lies like "men want sex, but women want security," or how the way to get women is supposedly to "get a good job" or something (??? ), how do you really know what actually works until you research it and find out what other successful men have tried?

Anyway, I've heard it said that we men are wired for polygamy (i.e. "I get to bang these 3-5 hot chicks... but no one else does, just me, so you understand...") and that women are wired for serial monogamy.

I don't want to get into the subject of the theocratic Islamic nations because they vary widely, and I'm not against Muslims and am even with you jihadis if you're with us humans against the synagogue of satan jews, but some of those countries where sexuality is demonized are very whacky with tons of homosexuality and the young men jumping on sheep and goats and monitor lizards, as are parts of India, so I don't want to deal with that mess, LOL.

But basically: I see black African countries as way better and less f***ed up, and yet I don't really think I'm going to ever try polygamy anywhere.

What women (even in the "West") often will accept is if you have a woman who is "queen of the hill" but knows you have other women on the side who are not in that #1 position, as long as you've been totally honest with her about that from the start.
(Not saying you have to bring it up on the 1st date or anything, but I'm aware of cases where the cheaters end up with massive drama and emotional upset, and also the supposed hodler men who then later try to propose getting more side women after initially setting up something on a monogamous pretext also get massive drama and emotional upset...)

So the way I see it (until I learn better?), the "queen of the hill" model with allowed side women can work. Some of the other videos the guys posted show happy families full of multiple wives, but thinking of specific women with strong (what they sometimes call "dominant") personalities, I really just have my doubts about that working....
Even if I'm not in @Outcast9428's category of idealism, I sort of am the borderland of wishing I could do monogamy but know I just can't (at least not yet).

[Outcast9428]

A quick update on this: I have learned a bit about the West African nations where polygamy is still practiced, and while it's not out of the question, there is often a whole bunch of drama with the different wives being upset and jealous and squabbling with the other wives.
Yeah, sounds totally obvious, but hey, if you're born in a land where the men are masculine enough but you still hear total lies like "men want sex, but women want security," or how the way to get women is supposedly to "get a good job" or something (??? ), how do you really know what actually works until you research it and find out what other successful men have tried?

Anyway, I've heard it said that we men are wired for polygamy (i.e. "I get to bang these 3-5 hot chicks... but no one else does, just me, so you understand...") and that women are wired for serial monogamy.

I don't want to get into the subject of the theocratic Islamic nations because they vary widely, and I'm not against Muslims and am even with you jihadis if you're with us humans against the synagogue of satan jews, but some of those countries where sexuality is demonized are very whacky with tons of homosexuality and the young men jumping on sheep and goats and monitor lizards, as are parts of India, so I don't want to deal with that mess, LOL.

But basically: I see black African countries as way better and less f***ed up, and yet I don't really think I'm going to ever try polygamy anywhere.

What women (even in the "West") often will accept is if you have a woman who is "queen of the hill" but knows you have other women on the side who are not in that #1 position, as long as you've been totally honest with her about that from the start.
(Not saying you have to bring it up on the 1st date or anything, but I'm aware of cases where the cheaters end up with massive drama and emotional upset, and also the supposed hodler men who then later try to propose getting more side women after initially setting up something on a monogamous pretext also get massive drama and emotional upset...)

So the way I see it (until I learn better?), the "queen of the hill" model with allowed side women can work. Some of the other videos the guys posted show happy families full of multiple wives, but thinking of specific women with strong (what they sometimes call "dominant") personalities, I really just have my doubts about that working....
Even if I'm not in @Outcast9428's category of idealism, I sort of am the borderland of wishing I could do monogamy but know I just can't (at least not yet).

I don't know if men are naturally wired for polygyny... I could never be polygynous. I've heard some guys on 4chan mentioning wanting to do something with chromosomes and fertility treatment so that 4 girls would be born for every guy and every guy could basically have a harem of girls...

That kind of world sounds horrifying to me. I am so glad that God didn't design the world that way. That he designed the world so every man/woman could have one man/woman to be their spouse. The bond that exclusivity creates between you and the girl is amazing. Also, the guilt that I would feel for partially depriving my girlfriend of her sexual needs would tear me to pieces. Her sex drive is even higher then mine is somehow, if my attention was split between her and another girl, she would feel neglected and deprived.

That's another thing about polygyny, people advocating for it seem to just assume that girls' sex drive is low and that men's sex drive is high. The implication is basically that women wouldn't mind getting less sex in a marriage and that polygyny would allow for the man to have all the sex he wants whilst not burdening the women with the expectation that she alone fully meet her husband's sexual needs. The truth is though, in a healthy relationship, your girlfriend will crave 100% of your passion and attention for herself. If she doesn't feel that way then there's something wrong with the relationship. A human being can only have so many relationships in general. If you had 100 friends then there's no way you could make your friendship with any of those people special, if you really did pay attention to all 100 of your friends. The only way you can create a special friendship, is to neglect some of those 100 friends or stop being friends entirely. The same thing applies to a sexual relationship except it is much more exclusive. It is entirely possible to have multiple, deep friendships. It isn't possible to have multiple, deep sexual relationships. People may find it "satisfying enough" but it simply will never be the same as having a sexual relationship with only one person, putting in that person, your complete trust and faith that they, and they alone, will satisfy your needs.

Apparently Nigerian women commit adultery at an astonishingly high rate, something like 70%, because a lot of guys in polygynous marriages will only have sex with their favorite girl while almost completely neglecting the others. So women in polygynous marriages there end up seeking other partners. I detest adultery, but I don't blame them for doing this... In my mind, her husband is literally living in adultery by claiming to be married to more then one woman. His marriage is a sham, nothing more then a pretext for what is essentially constant casual sex. For him to be the victim of his own actions is only karmic justice.

[WilliamSmith]

I don't know if men are naturally wired for polygyny... I could never be polygynous. I've heard some guys on 4chan mentioning wanting to do something with chromosomes and fertility treatment so that 4 girls would be born for every guy and every guy could basically have a harem of girls...

Your entire response was very interesting and appreciated, but there is one aspect I wanted to sort of "bookmark" so I don't forget (I am overclocking myself lately online and offline ), which is the theoretic biological basis of our proclivities toward polyamory vs monogamy.........

@Lucas88, any thoughts on this?

@Outcast9428 mentioned his father and multiple generations were monogamous, so it literally might be in his blood to do that.

I have heard a bunch of people talking about how our northern "Germanic" genetic groups tended to practice more monogamous marriage customs for huge spans of time before our (then) mortal enemies the latrinos of the Roman Empire f***ed us up and enslaved us.
P.S. No offense to the Latinos and Latinas that Lucas88 likes who I'm not talking about, but I'm talking about those oleaginous Greco-Romans down there who were always invading our northern barbarian lands and slaughtering us and forcing our women and children into sexual slavery in their greasy shithole Roman Empire and so on with their buggery and togas and columns and other bullshit until the jews f***ed them up from inside out and they got their perverted asses smashed by other invading barbarian tribes (hahah, served them right, pompous greco-roman sodomite assholes), not the good people we call "Latino/Latina" today from "down south."

But anyway... that's for the whole Germanic groups and what I've heard was their inclination toward monogamy, but I learned something funny about my own "heritage":
My family on my Dad's side is tough as nails and total churls and peasants from rock bottom and like something out of Robert E. Howard's dialect Westerns who came to the early jewnited states something like the 1920s.... but on the other side of the family: There is this guy in my family tree with this dapper British looking suit and a white mustache I've only seen one picture of. But his family (woman and two daughters) ran away from him around something like the post WW1 era to come here. For some time we never knew why that was. So I wondered if he was a horrible person or abuser and there was some kind of skeleton in the closet..... ??
But guess what?
It turns out the scandal that made them run away from him was not that he abused them, it was: He was a secret polygamist (but the "queen of the hill" found out, and boy was she pissed, like I warned passing on other womanizers' stories about how you will get "drama" if you're not up front about multiple women!!) LOL!!

So I totally disapprove of what he did because in those days that was a religious scandal and it hurt his family, so he shouldn't have done that.... but I still have to wonder if the biology actually makes you more inclined to be a monogamist vs a man who just HAS to have multiple women (know what I mean Lucas88)?

Our jewish friend Mercer may have exposed me as a "fake alpha male," but that true alpha male "The Punisher" Duterte probably hit the nail on the head right here:

"Sometimes you go for the socially correct, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to biology."

[publicduende]

"Sometimes you go for the socially correct, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to biology."

Gotta love that Visayan candor.

[publicduende]

I have heard a bunch of people talking about how our northern "Germanic" genetic groups tended to practice more monogamous marriage customs for huge spans of time before our (then) mortal enemies the latrinos of the Roman Empire f***ed us up and enslaved us.

I don't know about Germanic peoples but another large tribal group that inhabited much of Europe, the Celts/Gauls, didn't recognise commitment to a single woman. Boys and girls would start f*cking around as soon as puberty hit and whatever offspring was born out of those acts was brought up collectively, by the entire community. Another curious thing, Celts had a thing for having sex outdoors and during the day, not at nighttime. For them, the idea of doing it at night and in a hidden, indoor place sounded dirty and suspicious.

Ancient Romans were mostly gay LOL, they only saw women as tools for procreation and early-age child rearing.

[WilliamSmith]

I don't know about Germanic peoples but another large tribal group that inhabited much of Europe, the Celts/Gauls, didn't recognise commitment to a single woman. Boys and girls would start f*cking around as soon as puberty hit and whatever offspring was born out of those acts was brought up collectively, by the entire community. Another curious thing, Celts had a thing for having sex outdoors and during the day, not at nighttime. For them, the idea of doing it at night and in a hidden, indoor place sounded dirty and suspicious.

Very interesting stuff @publicduende, thank you very much!

Yeah, the stuff I read on monogamy being an old-time pagan tradition was definitely about Germanic tribes, not the Celtic, but I have a lot of blood from both those "white" groups, so who knows if those old amorous habits of the Celts and/or the scandal of the polygamist from England has affected me.

On the interesting subject of collective upbringing you mentioned:

It is also common in some black African nations I like (for example, Ghana and Uganda) for people to have strong family values, but have it be considered normal and healthy for men to go score with the women and have several side women as well as a wife (so I guess that's kind of what I was referring to as the "queen of the hill" model again).

But anyway, often a large extended family is involved raising the children (and having lots of children is considered a good thing)....

I find this interesting, since I've never experienced or seen anything like it in the subverted USA, where there was originally (before my day) a "nuclear family" ideal that was then engineered into total decline with huge divides between generations (even though I did have loving grandparents being born in early 1980s), and failed marriages followed by what's now pretty much the cliche upbringing by a single mom. No whining or self-pity there, just sayin': That's my only experience, so I pretty much only know what not to do, even though I have a lot of respect for single moms who just do their best....

But I've learned since then about the importance of positive male and female role models being present during a child's upbringing are really important to children, and I've read credible work on that and seen a lot of validation of how true that is. Those of us from broken homes or with family problems aren't neccesarily "damaged goods" if we didn't have a father present, for example, but to me it seems like an extended family model could work if there were positive strong male role models present in the family, even if not the father?

What do you guys think?
Opinions welcome, but if there is actually anything to substantiate what you think that would be awesome! You know, besides just trolls citing "black pill" hogwash, or mental giants like fschmidt (and the slightly brainier Cornfed) popping up and saying that psychotic religious nutcase countries full of sexually neurotic pedophile Abrahamic "patriarchs" are "obviously" superior, and yet they can't explain why, since we're all "complete morons who deserve to be executed" as schmidt says, and therefore aren't worth the time, LOL?

@MarcosZeitola, didn't you say you were a father? Any thoughts?

@Pixel--dude you sound like you're a great father, what do you think?

Geez, we need a thread on here about how to be a good father....

[Lucas88]

Ancient Romans were mostly gay LOL, they only saw women as tools for procreation and early-age child rearing.

I'm curious about what you've said about the Romans and would like to ask you some questions since you seem to know a lot about ancient history.

How prevalent was homosexuality in Roman society? Was it widespread throughout all social strata or was it more of a luxury of the upper class?

If homosexuality was indeed as rampant as you imply and Roman men mostly saw women as tools for procreation and child rearing, what was the reason for that way of thinking? Did Roman men generally find women unbearable and too much of a pain in the ass to be around and therefore prefer sex with effeminate kynaidoi who acted in a feminine manner but without the inane bullshit of an actual woman perhaps in the same vein as how some modern men choose to date shemales because they can't stand dealing with women? Could it have been an ancient MGTOW sentiment of sorts among Roman men? Just curious.

[publicduende]

I'm curious about what you've said about the Romans and would like to ask you some questions since you seem to know a lot about ancient history.

How prevalent was homosexuality in Roman society? Was it widespread throughout all social strata or was it more of a luxury of the upper class?

If homosexuality was indeed as rampant as you imply and Roman men mostly saw women as tools for procreation and child rearing, what was the reason for that way of thinking? Did Roman men generally find women unbearable and too much of a pain in the ass to be around and therefore prefer sex with effeminate kynaidoi who acted in a feminine manner but without the inane bullshit of an actual woman perhaps in the same vein as how some modern men choose to date shemales because they can't stand dealing with women? Could it have been an ancient MGTOW sentiment of sorts among Roman men? Just curious.

Thanks but I am not such an expert of ancient history. I happen to know a few things about the Celts because back in 1998, the year I chose to move to London, for some weird reason I convinced myself that I needed to know about the Celts to understand their culture better. As I went through the 3 or 4 books I was reading, it struck me that Britons who populated the south of England are much more affine to the Saxon tribes of current northern Germany and Denmark than the Celts. Nonetheless, I was fascinated and kept on reading. It did make for an excellent topic of conversation whenever I would meet Scottish or Irish girls, though

About the Romans, it's really common knowledge that homosexuality in their society wasn't even considered deviant. It was perfectly normal, especially among viri (men of social importance and responsibility) and Patricians, so the upper class, as you called it. So yes, the traits was much more prominent among men who considered themselves important and commanded respect. I would say sexual attraction towards another man was considered almost like a form of social respect. By the way, lots of Mediterranean basin cultures, including the Greek, the Macedonian, and of course the Islamic, promoted homosexuality as a social norm.

Women during Roman times were not considered inferior, they simply had a different and well-defined role in society. Until they made their debut in society and became vir (that's where the term virility comes from), young men were just children and under their mothers' tutelage. Only after they. became viri, they were considered adults and their fathers and other male figures would start mentoring them.

[Jackfruits]

there is the youtuber overstayroad / mark blackard who has 2 wives, great I would say if they are okay with it. its a pity he deleted his drunk videos in the bathtub while smoking cigars and talking about how women should serve men

[WilliamSmith]

Heheh, yeah, so I did a lot of research into polygamy for awhile now, but from my POV it generally involves too much drama between the wives, even if it's legally and culturally endorsed, so I decided it's not for me.

I think so-called "open relationships" are perfectly healthy since the multiple women are kept separate from each other unless they already happen to get along exceptionally well from the start. (So that can potentially include the so-called open marriage, if it's really a rock-solid partnership with a bullet-proof prenuptial contract, though I don't really see the point unless it was to expedite some kind of citizenship arrangement...)

However, all that aside:

This based Ugandan alpha male has had the good fortune to be born into the life-stream and culture of his own ancient nation, and look at what he has accomplished:
WOW! LOL!
He has 12 wives, 102 children, and 568 grandchildren!!
That's an extended family to be truly proud of! (This is African tradition in many promising nations out there.)



His name is apparently Musa Hasahya, 67 years of age, from Lusaka, Uganda.

“I married one woman after another. How can a man be satisfied with one woman?

“All my wives live together in the same house.

“It’s easy for me to monitor them and also stop them eloping with other men in this village.”

[ You can see from that latter statement why my research hinted to me that polygamy involves too much drama between the wives. I prefer romance, even if nothing so far has ever convinced me that pure monogamy is the best approach. ]

[WilliamSmith]

I don't think I could cope with more than one lover. For one, I like to focus all my attention on my girlfriend. I love her and no other woman even compares to her in my eyes. I take no moral issue with polygamous relationships, but I enjoy the company of one woman and so I prefer monogamy personally.

Another thing is that more than one woman would just do my f***ing head in. Keeping one woman happy is difficult. Plus, no other wife would get the attention I give my primary girlfriend so I think it wouldn't be fair to the second, third or fourth wives who might desire love but not get it from me lol

I've always thrived on the awkwardly named but apt enough "friends with benefits" arrangement, myself, but theoretically welcoming something a lot more romantic, if there's any real basis for it (which in most hodler's cases, there usually isn't, but sounds like you've got an exception and something really good going!).

I've always preferred one woman's actual presence at a time, though, regardless of how many other women you might be seeing at the same time ("on rotation," so to speak).
More romantic, less drama.

I know a number of other men who are more classical monogamists, but I don't know how they can stand the "dry spells" where they don't even have one girlfriend. (I've survived dry spells here and there without spontaneously combusting, but they're certainly not my idea of a good time, that's for sure!)

On the other hand:
I can't even fathom what it'd be like to try to manage 12 wives under the same roof like our Ugandan alpha male above, LOL.
Obviously, that'd need to be based in a totally different culture.
Especially for those of us who prefer women with strong personalities.
(Not sure what your girlfriend is like, but speaking as a man who likes highly emotional "strong" women with feisty personalities, can you imagine trying to deal with even 3 of them under the same roof, as opposed to 12, LOL? )

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with this wonderful woman you've been seeing!