Replacing PUA with P4P

[Adama]

the premise on which your argument is based is that decent women can be turned into whores by convincing, or just offering them money. Can you be turned into a whore by simply offering money or I? No. Because we are not whores at heart. We have self respect and pride and a christian spirit. The only women they will get with such methods are whores at heart anyway, those are willing to sell their bodies for cash, or to be supported financially. No decent woman would accept this. So in that sense yes, the women are whores anyway, so it is an agreement between 2 willing parties, each negotiating for what they want. No one is forced or coerced.

Any decent person can be led down a dark path, especially when simple-minded, young or naive. All they need is someone to lead them. These are decent people, not good people. Good thing these guys on here don't know how to get what they want. That way they won't be ruining the lives of decent women by leading down a dark path.

[Kradmelder]

See, you're running into all the evil women who believe themselves to be gods. None of that is normal.

Of course it is normal. Th =e vast majority of men have encountered women like this, and the majority of western women are like this. So that is the new normal. The old fashioned decent ones are now rare, so it is the oddity.

Do I like women like this? No. Their character is ugly, they are lazy, and also bad in bed. They contribute nothing to your life but an ego boost. That is why I avoid such women now. Looks no longer blind me to serious character flaws. A decent 7 or lower, whose word means something and can be trusted is a far better choice. Especially if she is a 10 in bed . Without the performance, she is surplus to requirements in my life now. But for a young man who still needs to have children she should be a choice if she has all the traits to contribute to the future of your DNA: good mother, healthy, no genetic flaws or diseases, intelligent, stable personality, hard working, caring, supports her family etc. Luckily the mother of my kids fit all this and very Christian, of solid scottish stock. Good warrior nation.

I made a good choice breeding there. The quality of women afterwards was far inferior. Maybe had looks, but certainly not character nor breeding stock. That is the problem with divorce. What is available afterwards are the dregs of the female gender. I would have been diep in die kak if one of those heifers dropped a calf. Having to raise the kid all alone with no proper female role model. My life has been blessed, for which I am grateful.

[Cornfed]

Maybe an ad saying something like "Miss the comforts of a girlfriend, home cooking, fun domestic times etc. but too busy with work to put much effort into relationship, so will reasonably compensate suitable female for her time." But perhaps that is a little obvious.

[Shemp]

You shouldn't lure a woman with offers of money. You should lure her with the potential for enjoyable sex, same thing you want, then use money to get her to behave nicely. Why should men pay women versus them paying us or neither paying? Because the supply of decent-looking men who want sex is much greater than the supply of decent-looking women who want it, so the woman is in a position to lord it over the men: my way or the highway, you're easy to replace. If the man wants to be in the powerful position, he has to offer something the other men don't offer, and money is an excellent thing to offer if you have it, since almost everyone likes money and most competitors lack it. You could also offer flattery, which most women adore, and which I despise (both giving and receiving), you could offer fame (I have none at this point), great sex (I do the best I can, but competition in the USA is good, so I don't stand out), etc.

It helps to imagine the sex roles reversed: men are the prey, women the hunters, women make more money than men, etc. How would you feel about a rich woman who offers poor you sex, which you could easily get from dozens of other women pursuing you, but nothing else? Versus a rich woman who offers poor you both sex and money? Which makes you feel more used? Suppose instead of sex we were talking about a valuable job skill. One "employer" offers praise for your skills and labor but no money, the real employer offers both praise and money: which makes you feel used versus appreciated?

There are no free lunches in life. What appears free, like these discussions on HA, are free merely because there is an even exchange of value. An even sexual exchange between men and women implies even sexual market value, which implies the woman is fatter, uglier or older than the man: the hard truth is that men are both more numerous and want sex more than women and thus have the lower SMV, all other things being equal.

Adama, BTW, is young and believes in marriage. He is this implicitly offering something very valuable to young women: a young man's signature on a marriage contract. Whereas I'm an old man who categorically refuses to consider marriage and won't ever pay child support because I have a vasectomy. All I can offer is good sex: by itself, that's not a tempting offer for most good-looking young women. (I also offer my delightful friendly personality, lol...)

[Cornfed]

You shouldn't lure a woman with offers of money. You should lure her with the potential for enjoyable sex, same thing you want, then use money to get her to behave nicely.

The thing is that like you say many Western men have no sexual market value - at least that would be initially apparent. So how does one get these semi-p4p relationships started to begin with? It seems to me that many men would need to offer money in some limited form at first and then bootstrap their way up.

[Shemp]

You shouldn't lure a woman with offers of money. You should lure her with the potential for enjoyable sex, same thing you want, then use money to get her to behave nicely.

The thing is that like you say many Western men have no sexual market value - at least that would be initially apparent. So how does one get these semi-p4p relationships started to begin with? It seems to me that many men would need to offer money in some limited form at first and then bootstrap their way up.

Ordinary men DO get ordinary girlfriends in the USA, it does happen. The problem is that these ordinary girlfriends are a PITA because they can be: the man is easy to replace, so the woman can afford to be a bitch, so that's exactly is what she acts like.

Kradmelder noted that you're not the cheeriest personality, Cornfed, and that's a problem with women. No one is more opposed than me to the PUA idea of turning yourself into something you're not just to get women. On the other hand, we all evolve over time, and cheerfulness is surely a higher state than gloominess. If you agree, maybe you could speed up your evolution towards a more cheerful personality, for your own benefit, and as a side effect make yourself more attractive to women, so as to get a girlfriend in the "normal" way. Then subsidize her somewhat so she behaves better and doesn't have to be replaced so soon.

As to how to get a GF in the "normal" way, other men manage, there ARE couples in America, it can be done.

[Cornfed]

You shouldn't lure a woman with offers of money. You should lure her with the potential for enjoyable sex, same thing you want, then use money to get her to behave nicely.

The thing is that like you say many Western men have no sexual market value - at least that would be initially apparent. So how does one get these semi-p4p relationships started to begin with? It seems to me that many men would need to offer money in some limited form at first and then bootstrap their way up.

Ordinary men DO get ordinary girlfriends in the USA, it does happen. The problem is that these ordinary girlfriends are a PITA because they can be: the man is easy to replace, so the woman can afford to be a bitch, so that's exactly is what she acts like.

That is the solution to one problem, but there is a problem with ordinary men getting girlfriends in the first place, as innumerable posts on this forum attest to. Also, what if you want a bunch of different girlfriends at different times. Those of us in some areas of the West who are not currently broke are facing a golden opportunity, as non-hideous females are finally beginning to suffer financial hardship for the first time in living memory. We should develop strategies to cash in on this (from the point of view of getting cheap sex).

[Kradmelder]

Maybe an ad saying something like "Miss the comforts of a girlfriend, home cooking, fun domestic times etc. but too busy with work to put much effort into relationship, so will reasonably compensate suitable female for her time." But perhaps that is a little obvious.

Don't say will compensate and don't say directly too busy for a relationshit. Women don't want to hear that. Sounds like you want something similar to my mistress arrangements but more domestic and more companionship. My mistress is trying to come back but once they persistently show disrespect I don't take them back. An opening move is invite them over for drinks or dinner to say watch the sunset, swim, etc. Never ask them out for dinner as you immediately sound like bf material so you won't get sex. Bf they hold out for a few dates and you cede control to them. Never invite them on a weekend. Not easy to get rid of them then and also sounds like a date and bf behaviour. Bf they will string along. On weekday nights, hint that you are an early riser, say you leave for work early, jog whatever. And say weekends your kids there, you go away on your bike, fishing (anything women won't do). The idea is to avoid sleep overs and avoid anything that misleads them into thinking you want a normal bf Gf relationshit and all the games that entails.

During the week ply them with funny comments and sexual innuendo to keep them happy and laughing. Give them attention and flirts. When they come over always be courteous and treat them nice. Have good wine or what they like. Make a nice dinner if they like it or if you want that domestic stuff. Never invite them more than once in 2 weeks or you mislead them into thinking you are their bf, or they can trap you in that. Just text or call everyday. Never serious talk and never discuss the relationship. Always light hearted mixed with sexual hints. And once in a while anti marriage jokes so they realise you are not going to kiss their arse to get married.

Never ask if they are seeing other men or what they do with their time. You will sound like a bf and allow them to lie and get away with it. You will sound like a jealous bf they can control and sound desperate. Any bf behaviour is to be avoided.

What you can discuss is stuff like if either of you meets someone then no hard feelings. It makes it clear this is not permanent and just fun and not emotional. But rather not bring this up. If they bring it up say no problem if you meet someone else.

Never invite them to meet friends or family or you have immediately moved into bf zone. Then the games will start.

[droid]

During the week ply them with funny comments and sexual innuendo to keep them happy and laughing. Give them attention and flirts. When they come over always be courteous and treat them nice. Have good wine or what they like. Make a nice dinner if they like it or if you want that domestic stuff. Never invite them more than once in 2 weeks or you mislead them into thinking you are their bf, or they can trap you in that. Just text or call everyday. Never serious talk and never discuss the relationship. Always light hearted mixed with sexual hints. And once in a while anti marriage jokes so they realise you are not going to kiss their arse to get married.

You've got this down to an art form
Again i think that's kind of extreme and only applies where there's just unworthy women nowadays.
Having said that, I'm not really a marriage guy either, so far at least, she would have to extremely nice and complaisant for me to tie the rope.

The thing is you shouldn't spend too much time together with anyone anyways, even your regular friends or family, because you eventually start seeing their shitty sides, which we all have. It's always healthy to take some breaks. Make the good things be sparingly.

Never ask if they are seeing other men or what they do with their time. You will sound like a bf and allow them to lie and get away with it. You will sound like a jealous bf they can control and sound desperate. Any bf behaviour is to be avoided.

This is true in the sense if you are really not planning to commit to the girl, you shouldn't mislead her with open jealousy either.

[Cornfed]

This is all good advice, but it doesn’t quite get the situation this thread is intended to address.

[droid]

This is all good advice, but it doesn’t quite get the situation this thread is intended to address.

The thing is you are trying to be happier at home, and as we've all discussed, it sucks no matter where you look from.
Online dating or p4p are just a reflection of a local market. So even if you managed to convey the message out in a legal way and get to pound a decent looking h*le, you'd still have to put up with shitty service. The only times I had actual fun with friendly girls was because they were FOB foreigners.

Now trying to theoretically shave some dollars out of the deal doesn't make sense, no offense but if people can't produce a couple hundred bucks to empty their balls once in a while then they're beyond help. May or may not be your case.

[Cornfed]

This is all good advice, but it doesn’t quite get the situation this thread is intended to address.

The thing is you are trying to be happier at home, and as we've all discussed, it sucks no matter where you look from.
Online dating or p4p are just a reflection of a local market. So even if you managed to convey the message out in a legal way and get to pound a decent looking h*le, you'd still have to put up with shitty service. The only times I had actual fun with friendly girls was because they were FOB foreigners.

Yes, hitherto it has sucked, but I am convinced this is an idea whose time has come. There are lots of impoverished sluts who would be happy to be temporary girlfriends for money if only there were a way to bridge the social divide.

Now trying to theoretically shave some dollars out of the deal doesn't make sense, no offense but if people can't produce a couple hundred bucks to empty their balls once in a while then they're beyond help. May or may not be your case

If I were content to shrink wrap my privates and pay a couple of hundred bucks to empty my balls occasionally there would be no problem. I just want a better deal for me and lots of other men.

[Kradmelder]

This is all good advice, but it doesn’t quite get the situation this thread is intended to address.

Your biggest problem with the advert method you want to pursue is that I think in USA you have too many serial killers, white trash and criminals that women aren't going to accept such offers out of fear. You need to proposition them in person. Payment must be indirect as no woman wants to think of themselves as a whore even when they are. Things like bringing groceries, gift voucher to a boutique for nice clothes or to a spa will make them appreciated and feminine.

Here they know no white man will harm them or rape them.they worry about their reputation. So an illicit thing where they are not seen is more palatable and works to their whorish nature of wanting an affair where in public their reputation is intact.

Rather make the payments in luxuries they like but can't afford that makes time with you fun. Fancy food, booze, clothes, money for fancy salons nails and massage. Heifers love that shit that makes them feel superior to other women

[Cornfed]

But the problem is still the initial contact...

[Kradmelder]

But the problem is still the initial contact...

Nothing for it but the old fashioned way of getting out there. Talk to women in queues, restaurants etc. I avoid bars. Too obvious. Just don't make them think it is a public date in the evening.

I often meet them on my bike when I stop due rain, buy veggies etc. Smile at them and they usually want to talk to a fit biker.had 2 heifers tell me shame it is raining come and join us. Had drinks got their number saying I will take you for a ride, then banged one of them for a while. Hot one indulging in her I'm banging a biker fetish.

You could try dating sites but the quality is low. Women that can't meet men normally. As a last resort you can bang a fatties or a 5 from there.