Why are PUAs respected?

[Cornfed]

Suppose we look at two different strategies for obtaining money or access to resources that money can buy. One is to beg, con, wheedle, charm, play upon, manipulate etc. people into giving it to you. The other is to do useful stuff in order to fairly earn it. Now, most of us would probably think that though the former method might be a useful skill if unfortunate social situations made it necessary, it would be generally dishonorable and the latter method is to be encouraged. We can easily see the great harm that would be done to society if most people put their energies into the former method and tend to look on those who do as being scum. So why is it different when it comes to men obtaining sex? Why do most modern people regard men paying for sex by either becoming husbands and providers or renting hoes as losers, while regarding PUAs as winners? Why the inversion?

[Jester]

Suppose we look at two different strategies for obtaining money or access to resources that money can buy. One is to beg, con, wheedle, charm, play upon, manipulate etc. people into giving it to you. The other is to do useful stuff in order to fairly earn it. Now, most of us would probably think that though the former method might be a useful skill if unfortunate social situations made it necessary, it would be generally dishonorable and the latter method is to be encouraged. We can easily see the great harm that would be done to society if most people put their energies into the former method and tend to look on those who do as being scum. So why is it different when it comes to men obtaining sex? Why do most modern people regard men paying for sex by either becoming husbands and providers or renting hoes as losers, while regarding PUAs as winners? Why the inversion?

Very good metaphysical question for the final era.

Thoughts:

Something to do with BEING CONTROLLED vs MANIPULATING.

A husband and provider is respected/would be respected /respects himself......
**IF**
he controls his bitch. (If not, then he is laughing stock.)

Same with George Cluney in "The American", where he controls his prostitute, at least at first.

PUA's may not be kings (as in "The Return of...") but they are at least ironic... um... jesters.... sad clowns who show us the brutal truth...

PS But remember, Young Skywalker, not is what they think you, rather what you know you...

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Some people respect them because they assist involuntary celibates, like you Cornfed, lose their virginity so the rest of us can remain safe.

[Cornfed]

Some people respect them because they assist involuntary celibates, like you Cornfed, lose their virginity so the rest of us can remain safe.

I'm talking about omega seducers, rather than people allegedly teaching others to be omega seducers.

[zboy1]

I may dislike PUAs but I don't hate them simply because their a product of feminism and female entitlement. So, naturally, PUAs serve a need for some men out there...

PUAs may be dishonorable, but their not our 'enemies.' In fact, you could say their our allies in some ways...although I prefer them to stay in the Anglo world, and not come overseas, as they do tend to mess-it-up for the non-monger types in overseas countries...(which I absolutely despise!).

[publicduende]

I may dislike PUAs but I don't hate them simply because their a product of feminism and female entitlement. So, naturally, PUAs serve a need for some men out there...

PUAs may be dishonorable, but their not our 'enemies.' In fact, you could say their our allies in some ways...although I prefer them to stay in the Anglo world, and not come overseas, as they do tend to mess-it-up for the non-monger types in overseas countries...(which I absolutely despise!).

I don't see it that way. I have read enough to convince myself that the whole PUA movement is just another flavour of self-improvement snake oil salesmanship. None of those people, from Neil Strauss to Doosh V, are actually interested in young people being free from the slavery of their own social paranoias and sexual frustration.

Once the next bootcamp is booked up, the next eBook paid for, the AdSense revenues upticked, all they are thinking is how to craft a more polished version of their message to make another sale.

This is why I consider stuff like this just-published article the absolute nadir of compassion and the zenith of hypocrisy.

http://www.returnofkings.com/36135/no-o ... arned-game

[zboy1]

Wow! That was a terrible article from the RooshV/Return of Kings crowd. My level of respect for them has dropped significantly after reading that...

[Cornfed]

I don't see it that way. I have read enough to convince myself that the whole PUA movement is just another flavour of self-improvement snake oil salesmanship.

Obviously most PUA tactics are bullshit, but the question I am posing is why is the idea of pick up artistry seen as acceptable even if it did work? If someone was teaching people panhandling skills on the grounds that only fools and horses do actual work for a living, most people would think that he and his customers were assholes. Why is it different for even legit PUAs?

[fschmidt]

I think the answer to this question is trivial. In modern society, good is bad and bad is good.

[publicduende]

I don't see it that way. I have read enough to convince myself that the whole PUA movement is just another flavour of self-improvement snake oil salesmanship.

Obviously most PUA tactics are bullshit, but the question I am posing is why is the idea of pick up artistry seen as acceptable even if it did work? If someone was teaching people panhandling skills on the grounds that only fools and horses do actual work for a living, most people would think that he and his customers were assholes. Why is it different for even legit PUAs?

As far as I have seen, America has always been fertile ground for an infinite spectrum of self-help, get rich, get fit, get ladies quick material, and this from at least the 60s. If class actions from disgruntled customers had been more common and this kind of fraud prosecuted under criminal justice, you wouldn't only see the likes of Ross Jeffries or "Mystery" doing time, but even people like Tony Robbins, Robert Kyosaki or Rhonda Byrne (who's actually an Aussie, but nevermind).

As it happens, people listen to (and pay for!) the things that they like to hear, regardless of whether they are effective, beneficial or even sensible. Tell teens that they have to force themselves to go out and interact, and crack a few sociological riddles before they gain their peers' respect and friendship, instead of glueing their arses on their couch to play videogames. Tell them to practice team sports and eat fruit and veggies instead of Domino's delivery. The sound of your words won't reach farther than their inner ears.

Tell them that they can carry on doing whatever they want because, after all, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they have been for the past 16/25 years. It's all society's fault. But - hey presto! - here's a magic formula to skip years and years of painful self-discovery and self-improvement by trials and errors, all that useless social skills development and empathy polishing, and go straight to pornstar status with the hottest girls at the local bar. From zero to hero, in a weekend. For only $3500. They will turn their heads and listen to you. And probably even shell out the cash.

This is the state you guys (and many of "us" Euro guys) live in. We have been force-fed by a strong and powerful narrative that is only designed to make us more obedient consumers. Consumers consume more and better when they can have instant gratification from what they consume, if only in the hollow realm of their fantasies and delusions. Certain fantasies have a price tag, some others are offered for free but they are by no means less toxic and useless.

[Cornfed]

I don't see it that way. I have read enough to convince myself that the whole PUA movement is just another flavour of self-improvement snake oil salesmanship.

Obviously most PUA tactics are bullshit, but the question I am posing is why is the idea of pick up artistry seen as acceptable even if it did work? If someone was teaching people panhandling skills on the grounds that only fools and horses do actual work for a living, most people would think that he and his customers were assholes. Why is it different for even legit PUAs?

As far as I have seen, America has always been fertile ground for an infinite spectrum of self-help, get rich, get fit, get ladies quick material, and this from at least the 60s. If class actions from disgruntled customers had been more common and this kind of fraud prosecuted under criminal justice, you wouldn't only see the likes of Ross Jeffries or "Mystery" doing time, but even people like Tony Robbins, Robert Kyosaki or Rhonda Byrne (who's actually an Aussie, but nevermind).

As it happens, people listen to (and pay for!) the things that they like to hear, regardless of whether they are effective, beneficial or even sensible. Tell teens that they have to force themselves to go out and interact, and crack a few sociological riddles before they gain their peers' respect and friendship, instead of glueing their arses on their couch to play videogames. Tell them to practice team sports and eat fruit and veggies instead of Domino's delivery. The sound of your words won't reach farther than their inner ears..

All true, but you keep answering a question never asked.

[publicduende]

All true, but you keep answering a question never asked.

Trading rates based derivatives or commodities in a heavily rigged or even fixed market has been done for decades. The LIBOR scandal has only emerged 2 years ago and had been going on since at least the mid-90s. A gold fixing cartel has been exposed just a few weeks ago. In both cases, the investment banks involved will be probably getting away with a few billions in settlement charges, having milked hundreds of billions in cumulative profits.

A highly questionable, if not outright illegal practice, that though works, in the sense that it provides massive profits to the few who sit on the right side of the poker table. The catch here is that such practices are designed to work only for a small number of players, in fact they only work when a few benefits at the expense of the many.

Even if PUA actually worked, it would just be another ethically questionable product and the dating "market" would render it ineffective very quickly. I have read in a few places that some guys are already bemoaning girls being hit by multiple wannabe PUAs a night, all using the same robotic movements, the same tired formulas, growing aware of the BS and actually laughing at them before the approach has even started.

I hope to have answered your question now.

[TheLegendSeeker]

Why do you think that PUAs are respected? respected by who exactly?
there are newly founded movements like beyondpua.com and puahate.com, the latter as the name
suggests is comprised by ex-PUAs who tried the techniques but failed to get results, dropped out and now they hatefully
expose PUA scams somehow. I doubt that the women who open their legs to players are aware
who these men are which otherwise they'd be repulsed. There are many blogs and websites bashing
on these kind of individuals. The problem with PUA is that it gives its users false hopes and
confidence which can quickly be shaken off by the hostility of women.

[Cornfed]

Why do you think that PUAs are respected? respected by who exactly?
there are newly founded movements like beyondpua.com and puahate.com, the latter as the name
suggests is comprised by ex-PUAs who tried the techniques but failed to get results, dropped out and now they hatefully
expose PUA scams somehow. I doubt that the women who open their legs to players are aware
who these men are which otherwise they'd be repulsed. There are many blogs and websites bashing
on these kind of individuals. The problem with PUA is that it gives its users false hopes and
confidence which can quickly be shaken off by the hostility of women.

I keep telling you people that the OP is talking about men who do persuade females to have casual sex with them on a regular basis, not people selling courses etc. Why is panhandling for sex as opposed to paying for it generally seen as good, whereas panhandling for money instead of paying for it (i.e. earning it) is generally seen as bad?

[abcdavid01]

Not sure panhandling or begging is an apt comparison Cornfed. Begging never works with women and that's the opposite of what PUA teaches anyway. I don't have too much of a problem with these guys. Obviously there's a lot of snakeoil, but some are legit. I'd even include Roosh. People trying to get rich quick is respected. Just look at rap culture, it's the whole zero to hero thing where these guys wearing gold chains and living in mansions write songs about how they used to be poor. This guy's good and he writes a lot of stuff on race you'd probably agree with Cornfed:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/05/ ... n-a-photo/