Amanda Knox - Is she guilty or innocent of murder in Italy?

[Winston]

Hi guys,

Since Winston "pulled me in" via a PM, I can briefly weigh in.

Eurobrat was half-right. I am not from Perugia, it's Raffaele Sollecito who is from Giovinazzo, the town next to my hometown in Apulia. His father is a well-known urologist and even my dad met him. Funnily enough, my dad recalls a brief exchange with said doctor, about me being in London and Raffaele contacting me about some possible work after he graduated (at the time, he had just started his Computer Engineering degree). A chillingly small world.

In short, everyone in the know in Italy knows the whole event is a quintessential Italian ritual murder. It's the modern sequel of the Monster of Florence murders that took place in the Tuscan countryside between 1968 and 1985.

Can't really write too much, but basically:

1) Since WW2, Perugia has been elected as one of Italy's playgrounds of the esoteric, the ritual and the masonic. Whatever Florence is to Freemasons, Perugia is its "youth chapter". The famous international university Amanda and Raffaele were studying at is Italy's equivalent of York and Oxford in the UK.

2) The Meredith murder carries the same characters as any other ritual murder happened in Italy in the past 40 years: an undecipherable crime scene, one or more folk devils (Pacciani was the "monster" then, Guede is now) incriminated, a truly massive media exposure, top-notch lawyers and magistrates involved, endless trials that basically come to nothing, and an outcome - if there is an outcome - that leaves more questions unanswered than those initially posited.

Amanda and Raffaele were approached and proposed to perform the murder as a ritual for heaven knows what purpose. Several days after his daughter's funeral, Meredith's father placed a red rose on the steps of one of Perugia's largest church. The red rose is the symbol of the Rosicrucians, the world's most powerful esoteric society, to many the real "high society" of Freemasonry. He knew.

But that doesn't make much sense. Why would a normal college student like Amanda agree to a ritual member, especially if she's not a cult member? A normal all American girl would not consent to that. She has nothing to gain and everything to lose, and years of life lost in jail too. Same with Raffaele. What would they gain? What would be their motive? Were they under mind control?

Also, isn't putting a red rose in honor of someone something normal that anyone would do? And if Meredith's father knew that the Rosicrucians murdered his daughter, why would he honor them by putting a red rose in front of a church in their honor? Wouldn't he be angry and want revenge and try to expose them? Like the father of Princess Diana's boyfriend did after their "car accident"?

And why did they select Meredith Kercher to be the sacrificial lamb? Usually the Illuminati want blonde virgin girls to sacrifice right? Because she was an innocent goody two shoes girl?

Or do you mean everyone was in on it from the start, except Meredith, and staged the whole thing? That would mean everyone including Amanda, is part of a secret society conspiracy? Isn't that too far fetched?

[hypermak]

@hypermak regardless of whether you are PD or not, what do you think of this case? What have you heard from your Italian connections about it?

LOL I don't have "connections" that can shed light on this case. It's been a while ago anyway. I guess it's one of those cases that create a lot of media frenzy and only ends up highlighting how clumsy, inefficient and incompetent our justice system is.

[gsjackson]

LOL You guys are not addressing any of my points or arguments. Did you guys even see the video with Doug Preston above? Geez. You keep dodging my points. That's not logical or constructive. You guys are using straw mans too. I am not attracted to Amanda Knox or trying to kiss up to her or trying to sleep with her. That's funny. My comments have nothing to do with kissing the ass of women. This is purely objective. I told you, Amanda just doesn't have it in her to commit cold blooded murder, regardless of whether she lies or not or if she has bad character or not. Donald Trump agrees even. She does not support Trump and did not vote for him. But the bottom line is that she doesn't have it in her to be violent or a cold blooded killer, despite any character defects she may have. Why do you guys keep missing the point?

Winston, are you having a cerebral event, or do you just not read the posts you respond to other than to size them up as for or against (pretty sure it's choice B)? What do Preston's recollections of an encounter with Megnini have to do with an interrogation of Knox in which Megnini didn't participate?

And this is one of the most laughable juxtapositions of sentences I've ever seen: "This is purely objective. I told you, Amanda just doesn't have it in her to commit cold-blooded murder..." You follow up a declaration of scrupulous objectivity with a statement of purely speculative opinion about someone you don't know.

As to the Satanic ritual angle you mentioned above, public duende, who is quite familiar with Perugia, had some thoughts on that several months ago, suggesting involvement of the Rosicrucians. But we can't get him to follow up on it because you banned him.

The relevance is that Megnini also interrogated Knox too remember? And Preston said that Megnini tried to coerce him into a false confession. So a third party source like Preston has also claimed that the same prosecutor who interrogated Knox also tried to force a false confession out of him too. That's critical evidence. Can't you see that? Furthermore, Preston looks like a nice down to earth man with no reason to lie. Did you see his video above? Why do you deny that Megnini interrogated Knox? No one disputes that, it's a fact universally agreed upon. So WTF?

Even if this was a Satanic ritual, how does that prove that Knox was in on it? Why would Knox be a member of a Satanic cult? And why would she agree to murder someone and spend years in jail for it and suffer the way she did all those years? What would she have to gain? No one would agree to that. You haven't explained that. Do you mean she was under some MKULTRA mind control program and did it not out of her free will? Like the guy who murdered RFK but remembers nothing?

You gotta paint a plausible scenario that connects the dots and includes everyone's motive for what they did. That's what Sherlock Holmes does and so does Perry Mason.

In this case, you gotta provide a MOTIVE for why Knox would wanna kill Kercher. You haven't. Do you think Sherlock Holmes would agree with you? Come on. If Sherlock Holmes would ID Knox as the killer, he would at least provide evidence and a motive. Why can't you guys be as smart as him? lol

Knox's motive has been provided in several posts, if I'm remembering the thread correctly. She was a drug-addled psychopath who thought Meredith was judging her and looking down on her.

[Spencer]

Winston, Winston, Winston. She didn't utter a single truthful word to the police investigating this crime. Not one. She's become a more skilled actress now, having had so much practice, but still strikes me as an obvious liar. As far as her demeanor goes, which seems to carry a lot of weight with you, check out one of her other personas (on one of these vids, can't remember which) as horny stoner lusting after the Michelangelo statue of David in glossy-eyed dudespeak, and then tell me what a sweet little suburban flower you think she is. And again, by her own admission she was promiscuous and heavy into drugs at the time.

You painstakingly try to make the case that middle-class America is a horror shop of pathologies, clearly a breeding ground for psychopaths, and then exonerate Knox because she presents (when she wants to) as a typical product of such an environment.

Exactly what do you think happened on the night of the murder? Every court that heard all the voluminous evidence, including the Supreme Court that finally ended the saga (I think for political reasons -- trying to get Knox back to Italy likely would have involved a confrontation with the U.S. govt), found as a matter of fact that Knox was in the house at the time of the murder, and that neither Guede nor anyone else could have carried out the murder alone.

Jackson i look up wiseton as happy abord hero and bossman for he is truly wise only become more wise each year everyear and humbleman more more but....

i see many video of fakegirl make oceans of tear crying sob shakey but later see all alligator tear and snakeblood girl for we seeing filisophizer schopenhoward say truth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-UqdYzZbA

[gsjackson]

Winston, Winston, Winston. She didn't utter a single truthful word to the police investigating this crime. Not one. She's become a more skilled actress now, having had so much practice, but still strikes me as an obvious liar. As far as her demeanor goes, which seems to carry a lot of weight with you, check out one of her other personas (on one of these vids, can't remember which) as horny stoner lusting after the Michelangelo statue of David in glossy-eyed dudespeak, and then tell me what a sweet little suburban flower you think she is. And again, by her own admission she was promiscuous and heavy into drugs at the time.

You painstakingly try to make the case that middle-class America is a horror shop of pathologies, clearly a breeding ground for psychopaths, and then exonerate Knox because she presents (when she wants to) as a typical product of such an environment.

Exactly what do you think happened on the night of the murder? Every court that heard all the voluminous evidence, including the Supreme Court that finally ended the saga (I think for political reasons -- trying to get Knox back to Italy likely would have involved a confrontation with the U.S. govt), found as a matter of fact that Knox was in the house at the time of the murder, and that neither Guede nor anyone else could have carried out the murder alone.

Jackson i look up wiseton as happy abord hero and bossman for he is truly wise only become more wise each year everyear and humbleman more more but....

i see many video of fakegirl make oceans of tear crying sob shakey but later see all alligator tear and snakeblood girl for we seeing filisophizer schopenhoward say truth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR-UqdYzZbA

We all have our blind spots, even bossman Wiseton.

[Winston]

Knox's motive has been provided in several posts, if I'm remembering the thread correctly. She was a drug-addled psychopath who thought Meredith was judging her and looking down on her.

What? Just because an American girl dislikes someone judging her and looking down on her doesn't mean she's gonna kill her. Come on. No one would see that as a valid motive. Are you crazy? Lots of American girls hate us too, but they don't try to kill us. If she didn't like Meredith, why didn't she move out and find another apartment? Or avoid her? Or pull a prank on her? Or have a cat fight with her? Why murder in cold blood?

Can you find any Sherlock Holmes story or Perry Mason episode or Columbo episode where a murder had the motive you describe above? lol

Do you think Sherlock Holmes or Perry Mason or Columbo would agree with you? No way. Man you'd make a terrible homicide detective. lol

It just doesn't make sense.

[gsjackson]

Knox's motive has been provided in several posts, if I'm remembering the thread correctly. She was a drug-addled psychopath who thought Meredith was judging her and looking down on her.

What? Just because an American girl dislikes someone judging her and looking down on her doesn't mean she's gonna kill her. Come on. No one would see that as a valid motive. Are you crazy? Lots of American girls hate us too, but they don't try to kill us. If she didn't like Meredith, why didn't she move out and find another apartment? Or avoid her? Or pull a prank on her? Or have a cat fight with her? Why murder in cold blood?

Can you find any Sherlock Holmes story or Perry Mason episode or Columbo episode where a murder had the motive you describe above? lol

Do you think Sherlock Holmes or Perry Mason or Columbo would agree with you? No way. Man you'd make a terrible homicide detective. lol

It just doesn't make sense.

Did you read the psychopath part? They are wired differently. They truly want to kill somebody, and on drugs they give themselves permission. I guess it speaks well for you that you have no insight into the criminal mind.

[yick]

She's as guilty as sin.

[Winston]

Knox's motive has been provided in several posts, if I'm remembering the thread correctly. She was a drug-addled psychopath who thought Meredith was judging her and looking down on her.

What? Just because an American girl dislikes someone judging her and looking down on her doesn't mean she's gonna kill her. Come on. No one would see that as a valid motive. Are you crazy? Lots of American girls hate us too, but they don't try to kill us. If she didn't like Meredith, why didn't she move out and find another apartment? Or avoid her? Or pull a prank on her? Or have a cat fight with her? Why murder in cold blood?

Can you find any Sherlock Holmes story or Perry Mason episode or Columbo episode where a murder had the motive you describe above? lol

Do you think Sherlock Holmes or Perry Mason or Columbo would agree with you? No way. Man you'd make a terrible homicide detective. lol

It just doesn't make sense.

Did you read the psychopath part? They are wired differently. They truly want to kill somebody, and on drugs they give themselves permission. I guess it speaks well for you that you have no insight into the criminal mind.

Yes it's true that I don't relate to criminals and psychopaths. However, I do know a lot about psychology. Did you know gsjackson, that textbook psychology says that a criminal psychopath does NOT just become one overnight? Usually they have a history that shows it. But in Amanda Knox's case, everyone who knows her says that she has no history of crime or violence or deviant behavior. She got good grades, made the honor roll, and never got in trouble with the law. And never did anything violent. Thus she does not fit the profile of a psychopath. How do you explain that? Do you understand that a normal girl does not suddenly become a psychopath overnight? It's usually innate and will show tendencies early in life. Didn't you know that? Come on man. I thought you were smarter than that.

Just because there are a few weird photos of her and Raffael in costumes acting wild and strange doesn't indicate that she is a psychopath. Lots of people like to act wild and crazy when they are overseas and feel like they can come out of their shell. There are video clips of me in Russia acting weird and crazy too, if you watch that music video of me that I posted before. Because when I feel alive and out of my shell, I can act crazy too. But that isn't the same as being a true psychopath capable of murder. Come on now. Where is your common sense?

[Winston]

She's as guilty as sin.

How do you know? What reasons make you think she is guilty? Not because you have hatred and contempt toward women is it? Can you cite some logical rational reasons why she is guilty?

[gsjackson]

She's as guilty as sin.

How do you know? What reasons make you think she is guilty? Not because you have hatred and contempt toward women is it? Can you cite some logical rational reasons why she is guilty?

Because, once again, each of the four courts that heard the voluminous evidence made a factual finding that she was in the house when the murder took place and that the murder could not have been committed by only one person. Everything she said to the police was a lie. Are there any "logical, factual reasons" suggesting she is not guilty?

[yick]

She's as guilty as sin.

How do you know? What reasons make you think she is guilty? Not because you have hatred and contempt toward women is it? Can you cite some logical rational reasons why she is guilty?

The one who hates women and has total contempt for them around here is you!

Amanda Knox murdered another woman so it won't be a contempt for women rather than a contempt for emotionless psychopaths - she got off on a technicality via the inept Italian courts. gjsackson explains it well enough.

[Winston]

She's as guilty as sin.

How do you know? What reasons make you think she is guilty? Not because you have hatred and contempt toward women is it? Can you cite some logical rational reasons why she is guilty?

Because, once again, each of the four courts that heard the voluminous evidence made a factual finding that she was in the house when the murder took place and that the murder could not have been committed by only one person. Everything she said to the police was a lie. Are there any "logical, factual reasons" suggesting she is not guilty?

What's the evidence that Amanda Knox must have been there that night of the murder? Just because her footprints and DNA were there doesn't mean anything because she lived there. She claims she was at her boyfriend's house watching the movie Amelie and then making love afterward and then falling asleep.

You didn't address my point that psychopaths don't happen overnight. The person usually has a history of deviant behavior. Knox had no such history. She had no criminal record and was an honor roll student. A psychopath would show psychopathic behavior at a young age. How do you explain that?

And why didn't Rudy Guede spill the beans and tell the whole truth about the incident if Knox and him were there? How come he tried to flee the country but Knox and her boyfriend did not?

What would Raffael's motive be? He had nothing against the victim and had nothing to gain from a murder.

Also if a Rosicrucian cult did it, as publicduended postulated, then how do you know if some unknown figures from the cult did the murder? Perhaps the same ones that committed the Monster of Florence murders as well?

A good detective like Columbo or Sherlock Holmes would be able to answer all these questions and wrap it up. Why can't you?

[Spencer]

Here sweety girl say do in way not feel pain also please not make messy inside home and she gigly cuty look 100% girly next door so we see femnino nature have deep darkside not show like dr hide vs my jackal so this warning be so so cynic of sweet nice young girly for that only superficiality fakegirl veneers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cySFIB3byBA

[Winston]

@hypermak regardless of whether you are PD or not, what do you think of this case? What have you heard from your Italian connections about it?

LOL I don't have "connections" that can shed light on this case. It's been a while ago anyway. I guess it's one of those cases that create a lot of media frenzy and only ends up highlighting how clumsy, inefficient and incompetent our justice system is.

@hypermak but what's your take on the case? Do you think Amanda Knox is guilty or innocent? And why? What do you think really happened? What do most Italians think? The case is very confusing because all the data taken together is contradictory and confusing and a big mess. Like a big jigsaw puzzle where you aren't sure which pieces even belong and which don't. lol. You know what I mean? In such cases, no one theory explains all the data, so you aren't sure which data is real and which is fake. That's the problem with cases like this. You know what I mean?