MarcosZeitola wrote: ↑June 8th, 2023, 10:46 pm
Dude I was literally in China just this last April. Its way overhyped. I saw maybe one or two videos from Serpentza and Laowhy and get most of my information from economists; my views as they are have been formed long ago, and while I have heard of those YouTubers I haven't watched a single one of their videos until early this year, so they didn't "shape" my views lol. Also
obviously Trump was controlled op who on earth still doubts that? Not about to simp for New York's greatest Israel-lover, The Donald.
I could dive deeper into the how and why of my views but don't disparage my views or sources quite that easily please. You are better than that my friend. China has deep, fundamental flaws and they are quite well documented. One doesn't need to be a pro-Western shill to realize how well and truly f***ed China is as a nation. It's just not organized or run in a very smart way, despite the insistence of CCP fanboys that it is all "brilliant". They have a few pretty solid cities. But also ghost cities and utter trash areas. I mean sure people who only saw Shanghai, Shenzen, Hong Kong may walk away thinking of China as some sort of "place of the future" but it doesn't quite stand up well to further scrutinity.
you get most of your information from egghead economists? those pseudoscientists? economists seem to be autistic in the sense that they often miss the forest for the trees. they often paint a picture of economic boom/doom that is out of context with the broader picture. either way thats my 2 cents regarding "economists", I cant prove that economists are full of shit, nor will I try to argue my point, but I generally disregard most of what they say.
tellingly you avoided directly addressing the two points I brought up:
HAHAHAHAH. ive been to china before, and I have friends that live there who I still talk to and they tell me that china looks completely different (in a good way) than it did just ten years ago. china is pretty much done developing? OK, sure thing bud. why even bother saying something as extreme and indefensible as that?
you cant be taken seriously when you say extreme statements like china is pretty much done developing, what an incredibly indefensible statement. I could understand saying that if china had been stagnant for decades and decades but thats not the case here. you pulled that statement out of your ass. a more defensible statement would be something like, "chinas development is slowing or is uneven around the country", but you go with the most extreme, biased statement possible instead that makes you lose all credibility.
china doesnt have to excel against the western countries, SK, japan etc in order to leverage AI/robotics for their own benefit, this is an arbitrary condition that youve imposed. you bringing up this up is a red herring and a logical fallacy. this is like saying that weightlifting is pointless for personal health if youre not as strong as other people... what does other people have to do with how weightlifting benefits YOU?
the point you brought up was a logical fallacy and it reduces the credibility of your reasoning. youre stuck in this mindset where you make arbitrary comparisons instead of seeing something for its own merits in isolation. so what if china is lagging behind other countries in AI/robotics? what really matters here is whether or not china can make products that are "good enough" for its own uses. once again, your point like the one I was talking about above completely lacked nuance.
most importantly is the fact that ive continuously made reasonable, measured pro-china statements within specific contexts, yet youre acting as if im saying that china is perfect and infallible, which I never claimed. this demonstrates that youre unnecessarily projecting your own anti-chinese bias instead of engaging me for what im actually saying. once again, nothing you said disproved this statement:
china is based because its all business, it doesnt pretend to be anything else and it doesnt propagandize globohomo to everyone else. I would rather have an "enemy" that I know where I stand with it compared to an "ally" that will betray me
ive been on the internet for a long long time and I have enough experience to be wary when someone peddles an extreme opinion. im just as suspicious as people that say china is #1 and perfect as I am of people that claim china is doomed is to failure. both extremes seem unrealistic and feel like people injecting their own emotional bias into the topic.
HouseMD wrote: ↑June 9th, 2023, 4:35 am
Do yourself a favor and go back to China. But go to someplace other than one of the big cities and tell me how it goes. China is a veneer. They had potential but Xi the it all away to try and become a god by consolidating power and reinstituting Mao-era propaganda that proclaims himself to be the core of China's moral fabric. If you think a country that makes people disappear, that venerates a man as a living god, and that is comfortable literally imprisoning people in their own homes for the better part of years is what we should aspire to, I don't know what to tell you. All opposition has been beaten and bred out of the Chinese, they are literally a nation of sheep. And their economy is going to be a dumpster fire sooner rather than later with their self-created demographic crisis.
The West may not be great, but China is not the antidote we need.
IOW development happens unevenly and is highly concentrated around areas of high economic activity. wow what a shocker. china being unevenly developed is not equivalent to china being undeveloped. theres a lot of nuance to this issue which I dont think you appreciate.
another thing thats hilarious is how you take the Xi phenomena totally out of context. maybe Xi's behavior wouldnt be necessary if the US/the west wasnt constantly trying to undermine china. does anyone deny this? china is literally ringed by US military bases. what youre saying regarding Xi would be 100% valid if we lived in a truly peaceful world, but as it stands the US is a warmonger that is constantly seeking to undermine other countries, this in turn necessitates a strong response from countries that dont want to get color revolutioned or whatever. of course china (or any wise country) is going to be more dictatorial in this kind of situation, would you do any differently?
regarding chinas incoming demographic crisis, there are two things to consider here:
1.to what extent will AI/robotics alleviate this?
2.the west mass injected itself with novel mRNA gene therapy, china only used a traditional vaccine. its entirely possible that the west will have its own demographic implosion to deal with that will be much more severe than what china will face. to be 100% clear here, im not making any certain statements regarding the safety/lack thereof of the vaccines, im just pointing out that there could be long term currently unknown side effects involved, we just dont know yet either way.
all you do is argue from emotions and platitudes, you dont seem to consider anything in its broader context or take into account myriad other factors.
