Free Will Is an Illusion - Sam Harris Theory

[Teal Lantern]

A belief in free will touches nearly everything that human beings value. It is difficult to think about law, politics, religion, public policy, intimate relationships, morality—as well as feelings of remorse or personal achievement—without first imagining that every person is the true source of his or her thoughts and actions. And yet the facts tell us that free will is an illusion.

[Billy]

didn´t watch it. free will is debunked long time ago. welcome to zombieland. by the way what does teal lantern mean?

[abcdavid01]

So what? We have functional free will. The brain cannot examine its own changing neural pathways in real time.

[Winston]

There is no way to prove or disprove free will. We could all be like characters on a DVD movie playing when the whole film has already been made and set. There's no way to disprove that.

Screw Sam Harris though. He is closed minded and an Atheist who ignores all data that contradict his beliefs. Some of his points are good, but he's too biased toward the Atheist side and doesn't consider contrary evidence. He also talks really fast and articulate, which makes him sound very intellectual and intimidating in logic and debate. But he only debates weak people who aren't good at debate. He should try debating me.

[Billy]

winston, come on. what do you know about science? - and how do you explain that you write always same stuff over and over again. very repetitive isn´t it an indicator against free will.

[WiseTruth]

winston, come on. what do you know about science? - and how do you explain that you write always same stuff over and over again. very repetitive isn´t it an indicator against free will.

LOL Good one, Billy

[noog]

I like what Sam has to say and I think I see the point he is trying to make. He is saying, I think, that you have to consider a person's actions happening in a collective context.

You cannot get caught up in another person's actions because you do not know all the factors in play. It's impossible. The only person you really know is yourself, and even then only up to a point because of your subconcious.

It's best to come to terms with other people's actions and just let go. Do you agonize whether to forgive or forget the grizzly bear the way you would a human? No. So just let it go, don't get caught up in blame games or trying to figure out what that grizzly bear was thinking. Just move on.

This discussion is relevant to the problems of Western Women. Rather than hating them personally, I am more sickened by the culture, parenting and various conditions that lead them to a point to behave they way they do. Could you ever expect a mean western woman to have a change of heart overnight and do a 180 and look for the right men and quit playing games? No chance. You may see a woman talk big and say "things are gonna change, I'm gonna stop this self-destructive behavior". But it's really really an uphill battle and trying to defy narrow odds. So be very very skeptical about a mean western woman saying she's turned the corner.

Think about it - a mean western woman has likely been quite unlucky to be born in the wrong culture and bad parenting and no one to keep her from going down the path of being a total bitch. What if she was born in a polite and traditional culture? It's almost a given you would be dealing with a different woman. That's why I reached a point where I realized that personally hating all these women is futile, you just need to plan accordingly and give yourself a much better chance of finding someone better.

[Teal Lantern]

I like what Sam has to say and I think I see the point he is trying to make. He is saying, I think, that you have to consider a person's actions happening in a collective context.

You cannot get caught up in another person's actions because you do not know all the factors in play. It's impossible. The only person you really know is yourself, and even then only up to a point because of your subconcious.

It's best to come to terms with other people's actions and just let go. Do you agonize whether to forgive or forget the grizzly bear the way you would a human? No. So just let it go, don't get caught up in blame games or trying to figure out what that grizzly bear was thinking. Just move on.

This discussion is relevant to the problems of Western Women. Rather than hating them personally, I am more sickened by the culture, parenting and various conditions that lead them to a point to behave they way they do. Could you ever expect a mean western woman to have a change of heart overnight and do a 180 and look for the right men and quit playing games? No chance. You may see a woman talk big and say "things are gonna change, I'm gonna stop this self-destructive behavior". But it's really really an uphill battle and trying to defy narrow odds. So be very very skeptical about a mean western woman saying she's turned the corner.

Think about it - a mean western woman has likely been quite unlucky to be born in the wrong culture and bad parenting and no one to keep her from going down the path of being a total bitch. What if she was born in a polite and traditional culture? It's almost a given you would be dealing with a different woman. That's why I reached a point where I realized that personally hating all these women is futile, you just need to plan accordingly and give yourself a much better chance of finding someone better.

Agreed. Don't have to hate the "bears" -- but don't have to date those f@^&ers, either.

[Winston]

winston, come on. what do you know about science? - and how do you explain that you write always same stuff over and over again. very repetitive isn´t it an indicator against free will.

LOL I just repeat the truth that I see. But everyone does too, including you. However I'm willing to change my beliefs if the evidence calls for it. But you are not. That's the difference between us. Your beliefs are FIXED and atheistic. Like most people you prefer to preserve your beliefs, rather than follow evidence or seek higher truth outside of your little box. And believe me, there is a lot of data that does NOT fit into your beliefs and paradigm.

Well actually, after examining the evidence and examples, I agree that yeah, free will is MOSTLY an illusion, but not 100 percent an illusion.

Btw, if you don't believe in free will, why are you so big on self-improvement? How can you improve if you have no free will? Why even bother or try? lol. See the paradox and irony? lol

Anyway, I agree that free will is mostly an illusion, and that most of what we do comes from our instincts, subconscious mind, external and internal stimuli, and other factors. For example, a classic question is this: If you are thirsty and get drink something to drink, is that an act of free will?

Also, love and attraction is not a choice or conscious decision. A man either triggers a woman's love, feelings and emotions, or he doesn't. There's no free will in it. Same with a man's love for a woman. She either triggers his love or she doesn't. It's not a free will decision based on logical decisions or conscious choice.

However, like Buddhists say, we can learn to be mindful and watch our thoughts so we can learn how to change them and not react so automatically. And so we can learn the causes of our actions so we can try to alter the causes. Even Sam Harris will admit that, since he practices meditation and Zen. But this is a gradual process that takes hard work and practice of course.

[Winston]

A good video explaining why most of what we do is NOT a result of free will, but that's ok because it means you can become aware of the causes of your actions and try to change them.



Shorter videos presenting Sam Harris' arguments against free will.





If this is true then doesn't mean it mean that nothing I do is my fault, and nothing anyone does is their fault either? lol

[Winston]

Jordan Peterson is asked what he thinks of Sam Harris' theory that we have no free will. Here is his response.

[Neo]

This is my understanding of Free Will. It is simply a choice as to whether a person wants to do good or whether they want to do evil. That's what it really comes down to. Free will is choosing and doing good or evil. Choose good or choose evil. That's what is free will. After that choice, there are rewards and consequences.

I don't think free will encompasses such things as what time to wake up in the morning, although those are choices based upon our desires. It is more about righteousness vs wickedness. Because choosing a particular time to wake up is not necessarily good or evil. Same with getting a drink of water. These are not questions of morality, conscience or integrity.

As for mates and partners, most people can't accept it, but those are gifts from God.

[Winston]

Btw we are 97 percent unconscious and only 3 percent conscious. So free will exists but is a very small factor. Not a major one. 97 percent of what we do comes from bottled consciousness and programmed responses.

These gnosis videos say the same. That 97 percent of our actions are unconscious and not from free will. They are very wise and enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... EyT5fS32aK

Btw not a single verse in the Bible supports free will. Its a man made concept. No Bible concordance in the world has any free will in its index. In fact many Bible verses teach predestination.

I debated my youth pastor about this in 1987. He got totally whipped and started insulting me. Lol. I was only 14 too.