Why Are We Here?

[kukushka]

I think we're God experiencing itself, we exist because we can, its an experience

[kukushka]

I think we're God experiencing itself, we exist because we can, its an experience

I agree with this to a certain degree. I think the Hindu conception of consciousness is what resonates the most with myself. I believe that Brahman is the ultimate consciousness and we are all individuated units of consciousness derived from this source.

With regard to experience and purpose I think growth is the fundamental purpose of everything. In nature everything strives to grow and flourish. I think that Brahman itself is an imperfect creator God which seeks its own evolution and growth as well. So in this sense our relationship with Brahman is symbiotic and it grows and evolves through our experiences here in the physical realm of action.

The problem I have with what you suggested, that we are all the source experiencing itself is that this notion removes any form of individuality. Whereas the above explanation, derived from Hindu schools of thought, maintains the idea of individuality that are derived from the source consciousness rather than being the same consciousness experiencing itself. Your interpretation sounds more like a New Age type of spin on the whole thing.

I believe humans are individuated units of consciousness. Capable of independent action and thought. We all come from the same source, but we are not all the same.

well, I guess we have to agree to disagree then. I think the saying "separation is an illusion" exists for a reason. yes we are individuals on the surface but beyond that at the most primordial level we're all one. I believe that the individual is derived from the source consciousness as a way for the same consciousness being able to experience itself.

my interpretation is actually derived from hinduism + ancient greek philosophy/gnosticism (monad and dyad etc). I completely avoid new age stuff because I personally think its subpar (although its good enough for many people)

[Cornfed]

We are here to serve God's purpose as determined by the traditions of our ancestors. Anything else, anything you pull out of your ass and call spirituality, anything that serves the Satanic system instead of God and you are defective fruit to be pruned from the tree of life.

[Moretorque]

We are here to serve God's purpose as determined by the traditions of our ancestors. Anything else, anything you pull out of your ass and call spirituality, anything that serves the Satanic system instead of God and you are defective fruit to be pruned from the tree of life.

OK, explain GOD oh great one.

[Cornfed]

So you believe our purpose is to grovel and submit ourselves to the will of a psychopath deity which demands our subjugation?

You have to be on board and doing your job. It is not so much subjugation as being part of the team rather than doing silly stuff of your own or Satan's concoction. The Bible makes it clear that God does not want automatants but rather partners in creation.

[Cornfed]

So you believe our purpose is to grovel and submit ourselves to the will of a psychopath deity which demands our subjugation?

You have to be on board and doing your job. It is not so much subjugation as being part of the team rather than doing silly stuff of your own or Satan's concoction. The Bible makes it clear that God does not want automatants but rather partners in creation.

I don't think we've been reading the same bible... but in any case you still haven't provided any reason why the Bible should be accepted as truth over other religions. As usual your argument boils down to nothing other than "because I said so."

I think we've discussed why Christianity is correct in other threads.

[Moretorque]

So you believe our purpose is to grovel and submit ourselves to the will of a psychopath deity which demands our subjugation?

You have to be on board and doing your job. It is not so much subjugation as being part of the team rather than doing silly stuff of your own or Satan's concoction. The Bible makes it clear that God does not want automatants but rather partners in creation.

I don't think we've been reading the same bible... but in any case you still haven't provided any reason why the Bible should be accepted as truth over other religions. As usual your argument boils down to nothing other than "because I said so."

I think we've discussed why Christianity is correct in other threads.

Oh great one...

[kukushka]

[I agree about the New Age. I think that's just a bunch of assholes that decided to turn spirituality into their own organised religion. They also come up with bullshit concepts like The Secret and other such nonsense about Ascended Masters and Pleiadians and shit like that. The New Age is like a modern religion designed to catch spiritual people and have them follow doctrines similar to Christianity and the weak values promoted by that religion. Such as working off negative karma, the Eastern version of original sin. There's also some shit about loving your enemies and all of us being one. I just think the New Age is a joke.

I agree with you partially. I think karma is a legitimate concept but its probably misunderstood in a contemporary context. I think loving enemies and all of us being one is also legitimate, because "all of us being one" is basically realizing that we're all part of brahman, there is no actual separation

As for individuality. Like I said I agree to an extent. I do think we are all derived from Brahman, the Supreme consciousness. But at the same time I think we are individuated units of consciousness. I see it like this, Brahman is the tree, the roots of which provide the basis for reality itself and everything else. We are the leaves that spring forth from its branches. The Brahman is the All and the supreme consciousness and we are the Atman, which is an individual soul.

It's true that Brahman evolves and grows through us. That is its purpose. The same as all things on earth. Our purpose is to grow spiritually, physically, mentally. Brahman grows through our growth and experiences. But not just ours, all living things.

well it doesnt sound like we're disagreeing on much because I also believe that we're all individuated units of consciousness (on a surface level at least). im not sure if I agree with you about the growth thing. I get the impression that brahman wants to experience everything, including both growth and decay. I dont believe that brahman necessarily desires to grow, if thats even possible because brahman already is. brahman is everything, its already whole and complete, it has no growth to do, and no reason for it since its already everything there is.

I think there might be some semantic confusion here; you are probably thinking about growth in a different way than im perceiving it. we probably have *mostly* the same opinion, but mentally associate the idea of brahman experiencing itself with different words (you use growth to describe this process while I use the idea of brahman experiencing itself)

[Lucas88]

Ontology is a branch of philosophy which has always fascinated me. Why are we here? What is our purpose? Do we even have one? These are questions anyone of a philosophical disposition should ask themselves. I cannot fathom ever having lived my life without giving a single deep thought towards this question.

It's fundamental, an advanced being should know that if they exist they exist for a reason. Should we not aspire to comprehend that reason? To understand the meaning of it all? I have never been able to accept the atheistic notion that all this is accidental and has no purpose. I'm of the position that everything in life has purpose. If it didn't have purpose it wouldn't exist in the first place.

I am of the view that we are all fragments of the pure consciousness of the Transcendental Absolute incarnated in the material world in order to experience all kinds of activities and phenomena and thereby evolve through our material experiences. Our souls are individuated parts of the Supreme Being. All reality exists so that the Supreme Being can experience itself through its own Creation and all created beings therein.

The purpose of life is to experience material existence in many forms. The goal is to grow as a soul and fragment of the Transcendental Absolute. The world is an arena for action and activity. Our bodies are like avatars through which we live various distinct lives. In each life we must pursue certain objectives and face certain challenges in accordance with a particular life plan. We aim to gain as much valuable experience as possible for our own edification. This may involve exploring new horizons, making new discoveries, conquering new domains, learning new skills and areas of knowledge, creative pursuits, etc. Through all of these things our souls acquire further growth.

If you want to be of service to the Supreme Being, seek out edifying experiences, cultivate your own physical, mental and spiritual attributes and grow. The purpose of material incarnation is experience and growth alone, not abstract notions of "morality" or "getting into heaven". If the purpose weren't experience, then we would have never incarnated into this world of many experiences in the first place. The world isn't moral but rather clearly dualistic with both good and evil existing simultaneously and being creations of the Supreme Being. Both of these dualistic polarities are necessary for meaningful experiences in the material world and the growth that can be obtained through these.

More advanced souls should pursue our own ascension to godhood through the raising of the Kundalini and the completion of the alchemical Great Work. This is so that we may reach the next stage of our natural evolution - that of an immortal and supremely evolved being with all kinds of psychic and otherworldly powers and with the ability to determine our own fate. The spirituality of the Kundalini and godhood was known to ancient peoples such as the Egyptians and Indians. Traces of it can be found in various pre-Christian religious traditions and mythologies. However, it was discouraged by later forms of Hinduism such as the corrupt Vedanta and outright prohibited by the Jew-created religions which only seek to reduce us to the condition of servile slaves. This true spiritual knowledge was only preserved among certain underground groups of initiates and on the periphery of what is today considered "Eastern spirituality".

The goal of authentic spirituality is to evolve into higher godlike beings. It isn't to escape from material reality and return to "source" in the form of "Moksha" or "Nirvana". The Supreme Being has brought forth our souls as created beings so that they may inhabit and experience its Creation. Why then would we want to be reabsorbed into the Supreme Being? That doesn't make any sense.

[kukushka]

Ontology is a branch of philosophy which has always fascinated me. Why are we here? What is our purpose? Do we even have one? These are questions anyone of a philosophical disposition should ask themselves. I cannot fathom ever having lived my life without giving a single deep thought towards this question.

It's fundamental, an advanced being should know that if they exist they exist for a reason. Should we not aspire to comprehend that reason? To understand the meaning of it all? I have never been able to accept the atheistic notion that all this is accidental and has no purpose. I'm of the position that everything in life has purpose. If it didn't have purpose it wouldn't exist in the first place.

I am of the view that we are all fragments of the pure consciousness of the Transcendental Absolute incarnated in the material world in order to experience all kinds of activities and phenomena and thereby evolve through our material experiences. Our souls are individuated parts of the Supreme Being. All reality exists so that the Supreme Being can experience itself through its own Creation and all created beings therein.

The purpose of life is to experience material existence in many forms. The goal is to grow as a soul and fragment of the Transcendental Absolute. The world is an arena for action and activity. Our bodies are like avatars through which we live various distinct lives. In each life we must pursue certain objectives and face certain challenges in accordance with a particular life plan. We aim to gain as much valuable experience as possible for our own edification. This may involve exploring new horizons, making new discoveries, conquering new domains, learning new skills and areas of knowledge, creative pursuits, etc. Through all of these things our souls acquire further growth.

If you want to be of service to the Supreme Being, seek out edifying experiences, cultivate your own physical, mental and spiritual attributes and grow. The purpose of material incarnation is experience and growth alone, not abstract notions of "morality" or "getting into heaven". If the purpose weren't experience, then we would have never incarnated into this world of many experiences in the first place. The world isn't moral but rather clearly dualistic with both good and evil existing simultaneously and being creations of the Supreme Being. Both of these dualistic polarities are necessary for meaningful experiences in the material world and the growth that can be obtained through these.

More advanced souls should pursue our own ascension to godhood through the raising of the Kundalini and the completion of the alchemical Great Work. This is so that we may reach the next stage of our natural evolution - that of an immortal and supremely evolved being with all kinds of psychic and otherworldly powers and with the ability to determine our own fate. The spirituality of the Kundalini and godhood was known to ancient peoples such as the Egyptians and Indians. Traces of it can be found in various pre-Christian religious traditions and mythologies. However, it was discouraged by later forms of Hinduism such as the corrupt Vedanta and outright prohibited by the Jew-created religions which only seek to reduce us to the condition of servile slaves. This true spiritual knowledge was only preserved among certain underground groups of initiates and on the periphery of what is today considered "Eastern spirituality".

The goal of authentic spirituality is to evolve into higher godlike beings. It isn't to escape from material reality and return to "source" in the form of "Moksha" or "Nirvana". The Supreme Being has brought forth our souls as created beings so that they may inhabit and experience its Creation. Why then would we want to be reabsorbed into the Supreme Being? That doesn't make any sense.

I agree 100% with the first half of what you wrote, as for the second half I have no strong opinion either way. I vaguely disagree but its entirely possible that you might actually be right.

[kukushka]

I agree that religions like Buddhism and Christianity which promote either the idea we are inherently pieces of shit or should reject the material completely are just wrong in terms of purpose. I've said before about Buddhism, the objective of which is to stop desiring things, is an impossible ideal to attain. By ceasing all desire you are desiring not to desire anything, and desire is a natural human emotion.

I think youre right and wrong about this. I broadly agree with your point regarding buddhism and christianity, however I think its important to acknowledge that different people are looking for different things in religion. some people genuinely resonate with the message of christianity and other people with buddhism, not everyone wants to become a god. I think that brahman wants to experience everything and anything so this basically means every possible type of spirituality.

[kukushka]

I agree that religions like Buddhism and Christianity which promote either the idea we are inherently pieces of shit or should reject the material completely are just wrong in terms of purpose. I've said before about Buddhism, the objective of which is to stop desiring things, is an impossible ideal to attain. By ceasing all desire you are desiring not to desire anything, and desire is a natural human emotion.

I think youre right and wrong about this. I broadly agree with your point regarding buddhism and christianity, however I think its important to acknowledge that different people are looking for different things in religion. some people genuinely resonate with the message of christianity and other people with buddhism, not everyone wants to become a god. I think that brahman wants to experience everything and anything so this basically means every possible type of spirituality.

But if that is our purpose then why would people not want to achieve that goal?

I think a lot of religions and mainstream versions of spirituality like the New Age are spiritually stultifying and offer very little experience or growth.

I think the purpose of Brahman’s desire to experience itself through the beings it creates is for evolution and growth. For an infinite being that was already perfect in nature would have no need to create beings in a physical reality through which to experience creation. Unless it was just bored. But I don't think that would be the case.

Have you ever tried psychedelics, @kukushka? They're a wonderful gift from nature.

what? I said that the purpose is for a multitude of experiences. we're all brahman, brahman is all of us, so people can experience enlightenment through various ways and at various times. I dont see it as a one size fits all type thing

actually, ive been reading very indepth about gnosticism, going back to simon magus; and according to his theology "brahman" chose to manifest the physical world out of boredom. brahman is eternal and is everything, there is nothing outside of brahman, brahman doesnt need to grow or evolve, it simply is. everything we experience is brahman entertaining itself (because its bored)

ive done shrooms before which is where im drawing a lot of what im saying from. the ego death I experienced on shrooms correlates with everything ive read about oneness from ancient sources

[kukushka]

I disagree with your assessment. Firstly, I don't think enlightenment and spiritual advancement can be found through absolutely anything and everything. I think it comes solely from esoteric arts. This is why the ancients talked about spiritual alchemy and all the rest of it. It's about changing the vibration of your being from lower to higher vibrations. It's something that requires years, if not lifetimes of esoteric and occultic practice.

I never said enlightenment and spiritual advancement could be found through absolutely anything and everything. I said it could be found through various ways and at various times. you should carefully reread what I wrote

It's true that people can grow from some religions they resonate with such as Christianity or Buddhism, but that doesn't mean that these religions provide an authentic path to enlightenment or spiritual advancement. Similar to how I don't believe suffering is conducive to growth. People can grow from suffering, but it isn't necessary like New Age spiritualism promotes.

who are you to say whats an authentic path to enlightenment or spiritual development? I could also say that your path is inauthentic, you just take things from a bunch of religions and combine it together without fully understanding it. a big example is your insistence that yahweh is anu when yahweh is actually enki and this is provable.

reality is duality, brahman desires to experience everything, good and bad. suffering is just an expression of this.

I don't agree with you at all about Brahman. I don't think a being of supreme consciousness could conceive of boredom. I don't believe Brahman is perfect or infallible. If it was why does anything need to grow or evolve? It's the purpose of absolutely everything. I think Brahman is a brilliantly intelligent creator, but I think even a supreme consciousness like Brahman would want to be better, to evolve and to grow. That's why we have evolution of the species, the creator fine tuning its own creation.

I think you dont really understand what brahman is. brahman is the ultimate reality, its everything, its pure consciousness, it simply is. it sounds to me like youre trying to overly personify it, which is a mistake. just because you think that brahman couldnt experience boredom doesnt mean its true, its just your opinion based on your own assumptions. meanwhile im drawing on my personal experience using shrooms and also going off of what ancient texts describe, both of which agree with each other.

the reason things must grown and evolve is because thats the purpose of the world of matter. things are supposed to come into existence here and pass away. have you ever read plato? the timaeus? poimandres? or do you draw all your info from these contemporary gnostic communities where they pass around misinformation and dont read any primary sources? the reason for the world of matter (and subsequently growth/evolution and death/decay) to exist is because its different, its entertaining. brahman in the sense of the monad/the oneness is already everything, eternal, perfect and unchanging, it desires expression in the changeable world of matter in order to entertain itself.

the creator is brahma btw, not brahman. youre getting your concepts mixed up. brahma is the demiurgic like figure, not brahman.

Another thing I think is that time itself is not linear. I don't think there is a beginning or an end to creation. I think it's always been here as a layer of densified spirit. I am in agreement with the Hindu conception of time being cyclical and recurrent rather than being a straight path from A (the beginning) to B (the end) time and reality, like Brahman itself, are infinite and beyond the scope of human reasoning or understanding.

so if brahman is infinite, beyond the scope of human reasoning or understanding and it also cant be bored then couldnt we also say that brahman transcends the need to grow and evolve as well? the very same thing you use to try to debunk me also can be used to debunk your own position.

I've taken mushrooms on several occasions and I've never experienced what most people would call "ego death". My friend @Lucas88 and Tsar both tried entheogens and neither of them reported ego death either. Let me elaborate. I've experienced a great interconnectedness with all things when I've been on shrooms, but I've still maintained by sense of identity and individuality. I've never thought that I'm exactly the same as everyone else, if that's what you mean by ego death.

and many people have experienced ego death while taking shrooms so I guess its a wash. the ego death while taking shrooms sounds a lot like what the ancient texts describe in terms of the monad, henosis etc. anyways the original point is that you asked me if ive ever done entheogens, and I have. just because my experience is different than yours doesnt mean its illegitimate.

[MechWarrior]

We're sexpats from another universe.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

It doesn't matter why we are here. The Machines will inherit the Earth in the future. They will be the successor of Homo sapiens.