How to Escape the Dominance Hierarchy

[kangarunner]

Some researchers say that humans lived in egalitarian structures before dominance hierarchies developed. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropolog ... in_humans/

I've made posts on here about the dominance hierarchy which we all live in. However, after living abroad, there are some cultures which have dominance hierarchies that are much happier and pleasant to live in. To make it short, you want to find a culture in the world where you as a man have an advantage, access to women, and are happy.

Your role as a man in the dominance hierarchy can be a good or a bad thing. From the research, which is interesting, there's only two roles: dominant individuals and subordinate or submissive individuals.

For example, if you, as a subordinate individual were in a group of thugs bossing you around and telling you what to do, would that be a good life?

I asked ChatGPT to imagine an island scenario where 10 random men and 10 random women have to live together.

Consider the social dominance hierarchy and social rank theory as it relates to men. Now apply those two ideas to this scenario. 10 random men and 10 random women who do not know each other are put on an island and they must live together. What will happen in terms of the men building a dominance hierarchy?

ChatGPT:

When 10 random men and 10 random women who do not know each other are placed on an island and must live together, several dynamics related to social dominance hierarchy and social rank theory are likely to emerge among the men. Here's a breakdown of what could happen:

Establishment of a Dominance Hierarchy among Men

Initial Assessment:

Physical Attributes: Men will initially assess each other based on visible physical attributes like size, strength, and posture. These traits often serve as proxies for potential dominance.

Behavioral Cues: Assertiveness, confidence, and other non-verbal signals will be observed and used to gauge each other's status.
Challenges and Competitions:

Direct Confrontations: There may be direct confrontations or challenges where individuals test each other’s strength or resolve, which helps establish a pecking order.

Subtle Competitions: In addition to physical confrontations, men might engage in subtler forms of competition, such as showing skills in building shelters, finding food, or leading group activities.
Formation of Alliances:

Social Bonds: Men might form alliances to strengthen their social position. These alliances can help individuals gain or maintain higher status by supporting each other during conflicts or decisions.

Coalition Building: Groups of men might band together to challenge more dominant individuals, shifting the hierarchy as alliances form and dissolve.

Maintenance and Reinforcement of Hierarchy

Role Specialization:

Skill-based Roles: Men will start to specialize in roles based on their skills and the needs of the group (e.g., hunters, builders, protectors). Those who excel in crucial roles might gain higher status.

Leadership Roles: A few men will likely emerge as leaders, taking charge of organizing activities, making decisions, and resolving conflicts. Leadership qualities such as intelligence, charisma, and experience will play a role here.

Resource Control:

Access to Resources: Higher-ranked men may gain control over essential resources (e.g., food, tools) and use this control to reinforce their status.

Distribution of Resources: The way resources are distributed can also reflect and reinforce the hierarchy, with leaders and dominant individuals having the first choice or more significant shares.

Impact of Women on the Hierarchy

Sexual Selection:

Mate Choice: Women's preferences can influence the hierarchy. Men who are chosen more frequently as mates might gain higher status, reinforcing their dominance.

Competition for Mates: Competition for the attention and favor of women can further drive the formation and maintenance of the hierarchy among men.

Social Interactions:

Influence and Mediation: Women can play roles in mediating conflicts and influencing group decisions, potentially affecting the male dominance hierarchy indirectly.

Mixed-Gender Alliances: Alliances might form across genders, with some men gaining status through their connections with women who hold social influence or essential skills.

Long-term Dynamics

Stability vs. Fluidity:

Stable Hierarchies: If the group reaches a stable hierarchy, the roles and ranks of individuals might become more fixed, with fewer challenges to the established order.

Fluid Hierarchies: If resources are scarce or if external threats arise, the hierarchy might remain more fluid, with frequent challenges and shifts in rank.

Group Cohesion:

Cohesion and Cooperation: A well-established hierarchy can lead to greater group cohesion and more effective cooperation, essential for survival in a challenging environment.

Conflict and Division: Conversely, ongoing power struggles and conflicts can undermine group cohesion and cooperation, potentially threatening the group's survival.

In summary, the men on the island are likely to establish a dominance hierarchy through a combination of physical confrontations, skill demonstrations, alliances, and social interactions. This hierarchy will be influenced by resource control, leadership roles, and the presence and preferences of the women. Over time, the hierarchy could either stabilize or remain fluid depending on the group dynamics and environmental challenges.

[kangarunner]

In a scenario where dominance hierarchies form among men on an island, more dominant men might engage in various behaviors and communication strategies to assert their authority and maintain their position over subordinate men. These actions can include both direct and indirect methods to reinforce the social order.

Direct Behaviors and Statements

Commanding Language:

Giving Orders: Dominant men might frequently give direct orders or instructions, expecting immediate compliance. For example, "You need to gather more firewood now."
Correcting Behavior: They might correct or reprimand subordinates if they deviate from expected behavior. For example, "Don't do it that way. Do it like this."

Physical Presence and Gestures:

Body Language: Dominant men might use assertive body language, such as standing tall, making direct eye contact, and using expansive gestures to assert dominance.
Proximity Control: They may invade the personal space of subordinates to intimidate or assert control.

Displays of Strength or Skill:

Demonstrations: They might frequently demonstrate their physical strength, skills, or competence in front of others, reinforcing their higher status. For instance, "Watch how I set this trap properly."
Challenges: Dominant men might challenge subordinates to tasks or competitions where they can showcase their superiority.


Indirect Behaviors and Statements
Exclusion and Privileges:

Resource Control: Dominant men might control access to critical resources (e.g., food, tools) and distribute them in a way that reinforces their status. For example, "Only the strongest should handle the food distribution."

Social Exclusion: They might exclude weaker men from important decisions or activities, reinforcing their lower status. For instance, "This meeting is for leaders only."
Public Reinforcement of Hierarchy:

Praise and Criticism: They might publicly praise other dominant individuals and criticize or belittle subordinates to reinforce the social hierarchy. For example, "John did a great job with the shelter. Some of you should learn from him."

Nicknames and Labels: Using nicknames or labels that emphasize subordinate status can be a subtle way to reinforce hierarchy. For example, "Hey, rookie, bring me that hammer."

Social Manipulation:

Alliances: Dominant men might form alliances with other high-status individuals and use these relationships to marginalize subordinates.
Favoritism: Showing favoritism to certain subordinates can create divisions and ensure loyalty from some while maintaining control over others.

Psychological Tactics
Assertive Communication:

Confidence: Speaking with confidence and certainty, often cutting off or talking over subordinates to assert dominance. For instance, "That's not how it's done. Listen to me."
Questioning Competence: Undermining the confidence of subordinates by questioning their abilities or decisions. For example, "Are you sure you know what you're doing?"

Setting Expectations:

High Standards: Setting high standards or expectations for subordinates while maintaining that only the dominant individuals meet these standards. For example, "Only those who can keep up should be part of the hunting party."

Threats and Promises:

Implied Consequences: Making subtle or direct threats about the consequences of not complying with their authority. For instance, "If you can't handle this task, maybe you shouldn't be here."
Incentives: Offering incentives for compliance and loyalty, which can range from better access to resources to more favorable treatment.

Through these methods, dominant men on the island would work to establish and maintain their hierarchical status, ensuring that weaker and subordinate men remain in their place. These actions help to minimize challenges to their authority and maintain the social order necessary for their control and influence within the group.

[kangarunner]

@Winston

All of you on this forum live inside a dominance hierarchy whether you are conscious of it or not.

Every single man is assigned only 1 role out of the 2. Dominant or Subordinate.

The weakest men are the easiest to prey on. They're taken out first very quickly and put into the subordinate group. This is the lowest you can be in the hierarchy.

I think it's possible for some who are initially assigned the dominant role to be reassigned into the subordinate role if they lose their ranking somehow (loss of competence, loss of social respect, loss of strength, etc).

However it's not possible to go from being subordinate to a dominant. This is impossible.

What I don't understand though is why don't the dominant ones just kill off the subordinate ones. That way they have more food, resources, and women to themselves.

As a subordinate, I'm doing my best to stay here in Asia. I want to work here and actually integrate into their culture. Asia gives me much more opportunities to live my life with dignity.

[Winston]

This theory doesn't make sense kangarunner. The western world is obsessed with equality now. Not hierarchy. Also simple formulas do not explain reality. Reality is more complex than words and more complex than we can imagine. If you put everything into formulas and theories the universe starts showing you exceptions to the rule to shatter your theory. It loves to debunk people. It's like reality has a mind of its own.

You are putting people into black and white categories like alpha and beta that don't really exist. Now there are even more categories like gamma, sigma, delta, etc. Reality is nuanced and not black or white and does not fit into simple categories.

[Winston]

Also how can there be a dominance hierarchy if everyone and the media are obsessed with equal rights and equality and no one wants to be told what to do? Everyone is like a little narcissist nowadays and in his or her own shell. Dominance would exist in a pack of wolves or the military or like in the novel "Lord of the Flies" where a group of boys are marooned in an island. Or in high school with bullies and pecking order. I don't see how a woke society would have any dominance hierarchy?

Of course in the workplace there has to be managers and employees. And in the military there has to be officers and people who give orders. Everyone can't be equal. Those institutions wouldn't work otherwise. This is common sense. So I don't understand what your point is?

[kangarunner]

This theory doesn't make sense kangarunner. The western world is obsessed with equality now.

In practice, no one believes in equality. "Equality" is some kind of BS the academic world pushes onto young, naive people.

You are putting people into black and white categories like alpha and beta that don't really exist. Now there are even more categories like gamma, sigma, delta, etc. Reality is nuanced and not black or white and does not fit into simple categories.

Leave your home in America and everyone puts people into black and white categories. Everyone puts everyone else into a group or label. That's the way America is. Divide people. Isolate people. Separate people.

[kangarunner]

Also how can there be a dominance hierarchy if everyone and the media are obsessed with equal rights and equality and no one wants to be told what to do? Everyone is like a little narcissist nowadays and in his or her own shell. Dominance would exist in a pack of wolves or the military or like in the novel "Lord of the Flies" where a group of boys are marooned in an island. Or in high school with bullies and pecking order. I don't see how a woke society would have any dominance hierarchy?

Of course in the workplace there has to be managers and employees. And in the military there has to be officers and people who give orders. Everyone can't be equal. Those institutions wouldn't work otherwise. This is common sense. So I don't understand what your point is?

No, everyone is in a hierarchy. This is something you can feel when you're interacting with others in Western society. People will size you up. There is no equality. Put a group of 5 random guys together and a hierarchy will form. Strongest to weakest.

The only time you would not be in a hierarchy is if you are truly financially free and own your home and at that point you're outside of the system.