Can you really blame someone for being weak willed?

[pete98146]

It's not an easy question to answer. Each of us are wired differently. I'm one of those strong-willed people. I remember getting a divorce ten years ago and within a few weeks I was devising a strategy to find another woman because I don't enjoy being alone. But once I had my mind set on a goal, there are no objections or excuses that I can't overcome. It became a pressing goal to get from Point A to Point Z. It was really that simple.

For others, it's not as simple.....not as cut and dried. I'm assuming that you eluding to Winston are you not? If I could take over Winston's body for one year, I would join the gym and put in 8 hours of work per week minimum. I'd probably join some exercize classes and chat and flirt ladies. I'd be down to zero sugar and I'd cut my carbs. I'd also move out of Taiwan and back to Phils or China. I'd find a way to get into superior shape so the side effects of the heat are minimal.

I'd buy some professional clothing, print out 1000 www.HappierAbroad.com CEO cards and hand them out to only the prettiest girls in the mall. Bottom line is that I'd be able to overcome ANY obstacles that would prevent me from having as many hot girlfriends as I wanted. And you know what? I would succeed. But, I ultimately I can't take over Winston's body.

So the moral of the story is those that are strong willed are trying to help Winston. Much of these posts are not really designed to anger Winston but instead kick him in the butt and get him going!!!!!!!! But, Winston's worst enemy will always be Winston. Meanwhile, weaker willed people can relate and understand Winston.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Is will a choice? I mean… can you really blame someone… for having weak will?

I mean… you could say "don't be hard on him, he can't help being weak.. that is who he is, he is a head case, he has issues,etc.... it's his nature"

so then he is blameless…right?

but OTOH… you could also say about him "what an idiot! he chooses to be weak willed...if he only tried he wouldn't be such a weak person"

so in this case… you ARE blaming him… cause you are really saying: he CHOOSES being weak over strong.

So then... you are implying... nature is no excuse for laziness or poor performance.. ANYONE can be straight A students... or have a great high paying job... and can follow through on most anything. if only they want to.

WTF... i'm so confused…

Wow..you kids need some education...

Of COURSE a man is held responsible for being weak willed....who are you going to blame? His MOTHER?

WTF....how can you even ask such a question?

[PeterAndrewNolan]

It's not an easy question to answer. Each of us are wired differently. I'm one of those strong-willed people. I remember getting a divorce ten years ago and within a few weeks I was devising a strategy to find another woman because I don't enjoy being alone.

Wow...you were slow off the mark. I was dating and checking out what was available on the menu before the final decision to divorce was made. Just dinner dates to check things out. The "next woman" turned up inside 2 weeks of the final decision to divorce. My ex had told me she was "indifferent to being married" in February.....So I committed to having a woman who was not indifferent to being married to me by the next february be it her or someone else. And that was easily achieved. But she turned out feminised so I moved on and I discovered eastern european women.

[pete98146]

It's not an easy question to answer. Each of us are wired differently. I'm one of those strong-willed people. I remember getting a divorce ten years ago and within a few weeks I was devising a strategy to find another woman because I don't enjoy being alone.

Wow...you were slow off the mark. I was dating and checking out what was available on the menu before the final decision to divorce was made. Just dinner dates to check things out. The "next woman" turned up inside 2 weeks of the final decision to divorce. My ex had told me she was "indifferent to being married" in February.....So I committed to having a woman who was not indifferent to being married to me by the next february be it her or someone else. And that was easily achieved. But she turned out feminised so I moved on and I discovered eastern european women.

There were a couple of visits down to Rio right after we decided to split tho....I'm assuming that counts for something

[PeterAndrewNolan]

yeah but... where does the 'inner strength" come from?

I mean... no offense but... your answer kinda sucks. I mean... it doesn't answer the question...

Everyone WANTS to have "inner strength" - who doesn't?

And everyone WANTS to have the will...to do what they have to do.

But... i guess my point is: its not enough to WANT something

or even... to WANT to have the WILL to do something...

what is link between WANTING and DOING?

How old are you?

Here is how it works.

"Do what you say you will do"

If you want to find out all about how to be unstoppable in the face of no agreement go do the Landmark Forum.

I am "unstoppable in the face of no agreement". That was part of my preparation for being the driving force behind bringing the rule of law back into the english speaking world and freeing all men in the english speaking world who choose to be free.

When I started 4.5 years ago I was REALLY talking into the face of no agreement. Now? There are LOTS of men who know about CAF, about MBA about TTBT, and they are starting to take notice......very slowly...but those who do not take notice can go shoot themselves for being "useless eaters".

Being unstoppable in the face of no agreement is a way of being. And most people here do not even know how to be a way of being.

You are not human beings...mostly you are human doings....doing shit in order to be something one day....guaranteed misery.....

I would be willing to bet most men here do not even know how to create a new way of being...I bet most men here do not even know how to deconstruct one identity and to rebuild a new identity that is created by an act of will and not given to us by our past.

I create my identities as an act of will. Like a painter creates a painting on a blank canvas. Most people inherit their identities from their same sex parent by being either like that parent or rebelling against that parent...but who they are is a version of the same sex parent. Talk about a life half lived.

[Boner_Jones]

As an adult, you know not to eat too much junk food because it's not healthy for you and it makes you obese.

yeah but... lots of adults still eat junk food anyway.. or they drink too much.. or they do drugs like coke/heroin/etc... and they are not retarded or brain defected, they have normal or above average intelligence...
and... lots of them WANT not to do those things.... but they do it anyway
so... why do they do what they know to be bad? Mental disorder? then they cannot be blamed...

Sure, I eat junk food like doughnuts. But I have the good sense to know that I shouldn't eat 6 of them just because they're in a box.

There are people with compulsive eating disorders who would clean out the whole box, then feel guilty about it, until they get their hands on another box, and the cycle repeats. That, is obviously unhealthy by common sense.

yeah but... so does a lot of people.. smart people, like I said... but they still clean out the whole box... or they drink too much... or they do drugs... didn't you read the rest of what i wrote?

My point is... people KNOW overeating, over drinking, etc... is bad for you but... they do it anyway.

what is a "disorder' anyway? it sounds like a viral disease... externally caused...

If you were a vulcan... like Data or Mr Spock... visiting earth... observing smart, fully functioning humans underperforming... or acting against self-interest...how would you explain it in objective scientific terms? without moralizing i.e blaming?

[Boner_Jones]

No i wasn't talking about Winston but... I guess he fits the type. I mean... he does seem to have compulsions... behaviors... that seem to conflict with his self interest...

if someone has a disorder... then can one self correct behavior... align it... with self interest?

What if.. disorders are more than just observable phemonenon... with real physcal causes.?

Then... can willpower really correct behavior?

Because if someone has a disorder... isn't will affected too? after all.... will is located in the brain isn't it?

So... a disorder can result in... a damaged will... a defective will... then it is useless to talk about "its just a matter of applying your will." and then berating or blaming someone like Winston is useless..

[chaste_filipina]

Basically people who have obsessive-compulsive disorder have the problem of self-control. If they keep on doing the action and the thought reinforces the action, do not do anything to stop the action immediately. Minimize the time spent on the action because that's the main problem of OCD patients. Because they spent too much time on their rituals, they could no longer do their ADLs (Activities of Daily Living). Or you can do cognitive therapy on them. Find the source and root of the problem. What is the patient's childhood was like is a clue, since our personality, belief systems, principles stem from our childhood.

[momopi]

yeah but... so does a lot of people.. smart people, like I said... but they still clean out the whole box... or they drink too much... or they do drugs... didn't you read the rest of what i wrote?
My point is... people KNOW overeating, over drinking, etc... is bad for you but... they do it anyway.
what is a "disorder' anyway? it sounds like a viral disease... externally caused...
If you were a Vulcan... like Data or Mr Spock... visiting earth... observing smart, fully functioning humans under-performing... or acting against self-interest...how would you explain it in objective scientific terms? without moralizing i.e blaming?

In scientific terms, the "norm" is defined as standard performance or expectation of people, given their demographic background. Given a box of doughnuts, it's normal to expect someone to take maybe 1 or 2, but not consume the entire box. If the person eat the whole box, then that would be abnormal. It's possible that the person is simply famished, or have some kind of disorder, which is defined as a dysfunction of the person's metal or physical capacity.

Addition and compulsive behaviors are disorders. If the person has serious impaired control over consumption of doughnuts (or other foods), preoccupation with doughnuts (or another food), continued over-consumption despite the consequences, denial of the problem, seeking immediate gratification despite long-term costs, physiological dependence on doughnuts/sugar/junk-food, experience withdraw symptoms (anxiety, irritability, intense craving, etc), these are all signs of addiction.

There are people with real physical or metal issues that cause disorders. But for many, it's a case of insufficient spanking and discipline as a kid. Children are immature, compulsive, and easily irritated. Part of growing up and becoming an adult is learning how to approach situations calmly, with maturity and self-control. In the fictional Star Trek Universe, Vulcans are not born mature or logical. They were raised and taught to have a disciplined mind, self-control, reason, logic, philosophy of non-interference (the Federation's Prime Directive is Vulcan in its origins) and non-violence.

[Boner_Jones]

So.. i was watching a really old movie…the 'Godfather' … cuz movies suck nowadays... and there was this one guy Fredo.. he was weak willed… and a little stupid… he didn't get respect… nobody feared him and they insulted him.

So.. i don't know if he could've been a strong man or a smarter man… maybe he wanted to be strong and smart.. but he couldn't… or could he?

did he lack will power? I mean… he mustve wanted to be strong… and probably tried… so is he deserving of blame because he 'didn't try hard enough'? Or was he a weak man cause… that's who he was and you couldn't change him?

[terminator]

Weak-willed people need to kick their drug habit and get some education!