The Argument "You Don't Deserve a Girlfriend Just For Being X"

[yick]

I'll go on another path different from Frank and state that people with high sex drives are more susceptible to corruption, treachery and larceny - the former Soviet Union would regularly use 'honey traps' to seduce people of power in western countries during the Cold War which ended up with governments overthrown - the UK are going through this right now where a high-up government minister has paid out hundreds of thousands of pounds of government money to the consulting company of his mistress.

That's not to say everyone with a high sex drive is susceptible but many are prone to making bad decisions looking for the thrill of seeking new flesh to have sex with. It can range from losing your wife, kids and house to losing your life or going to prison.

[Outcast9428]

How is that not an important trait?

Because the concept of niceness is very vague and most people are nice some of the time.

Don’t be overly specific about what I mean with nice guy. It means you are a good person.

The problem is however some men adopt a 'nice guy persona' with women they want to date and have sex with, they're not nice guys at all and get upset that being 'nice' to women doesn't reward them with romance and sex - it is a tired trope that has been played out for many years which is why being 'nice' isn't enough and you need to have more going for you - men are nice to women they fancy and want to date and have sex with and vice versa.

I already said that I do think it’s more reasonable if somebody actually has seriously bad traits otherwise like being fat or ugly.

There you go.

However, if I was to choose between a sweet plain looking girl vs a hot bitchy girl. I would definitely choose the sweet plain looking girl. The same should apply to men. I think anybody who would choose otherwise either has very messed up personal values or they are just an idiot with no foresight.

This is the problem with a lot of men who come on here - they want to change the world into something different than what it is - now that's being an idiot because what you want isn't going to come about anytime soon - to get a woman - any woman - you need to be more than a 'nice' person - most men are nice to women they want to f**k as well as sometimes charming, handsome, fit, funny, witty, intelligent, well dressed, tall, ravishing smile etc etc

Being 'nice' isn't enough on its own. Wouldn't it be nice if that was enough and that is all you had to do but no, getting a woman is a competitive endeavour and you need more to compete with the other men who want the same woman as you - and it has always been the same - if you think it is going to change to what you want then you'll be waiting a long time.

No it really is not a vague concept.

You are doing exactly what I mentioned before about repeating our enemies' talking points against ourselves. Acting as if a guy trying to be a good person and hoping it will result in a romantic reward is somehow a bad thing. Feminists act as if no guy who wants sex is "a real nice guy." This comes from feminists' absurdly frigid and prudish perspective on the world, basically acting as if interacting with a girl because you want her romantically automatically makes you a bad guy. A guy acts nice to a girl in order to advertise his best qualities. He's saying this is how he'll treat her once they are in a relationship. There's nothing wrong with this anymore then it is wrong for a girl to mention volunteering at an animal shelter in order to advertise her best qualities.

I said to him that if a guy was nice but couldn't earn any income and was ugly that it was more understandable but in the cases we are talking about, we are referring to people who have very negative qualities that are enough to override the nice quality. What I am referring to is the fact that women dismiss guys who are say, plain looking, or even above average looking, and nice. This is where I actually have a problem with their behavior. Back in college, every dickhead I knew could get laid either every weekend or almost every weekend while all the nice guys I knew were either completely sexless the entire time or maybe got laid once in their entire 4 years. This is because women actively dislike nice guys. And you act as if there's no problem with women having this attitude or "we can't change it so stop complaining about it."

The world would change if people stopped adopting this "nothing's ever gonna happen so just give up." You have adopted a defeatist attitude. The world can and does change quite often when enough people get pissed off at the way it is. This is why complaining is good, people need to know that other people are pissed off too and the more complaining people do, the more likely it is that things will change. As for me, I consider this situation to be so intolerable that I will dedicate the rest of my life to subverting this social system and trying to replace it with one that is more just.

[Shemp]

Did you read my previous post? It would seem we are somewhat in agreement:
viewtopic.php?t=20929

Maybe. I know you and fschmidt have made the same point in various threads here, so if I didn't read that thread, I definitely read others like it.

Meanwhile, poor OP is thinking he can turn the ocean yellow by pissing in it. One thing Marx got right was the idea of historical necessity. Individuals can have no positive impact on the system, though people at the very top sometimes can have a negative impact. What is fated to happen, must happen. All we can do as individuals is try to avoid being crushed under the wheels as the great machine of historical necessity lumbers forwards.

[yick]

No it really is not a vague concept.

It is a very vague concept, used by not so nice guys pretending to be nice guys so they can f**k as many women as possible. Unfortunately, if you ask any woman where does being 'nice' come into their list of priorities (as a trait on its own...) it doesn't come very high.

You are doing exactly what I mentioned before about repeating our enemies' talking points against ourselves.

Not really, and who are 'our' enemies, we might not share enemies.

Acting as if a guy trying to be a good person and hoping it will result in a romantic reward is somehow a bad thing.

It is if he is pretending (and a lot do...) and basically it doesn't really work because women tend to know men pretend to be nice to get things like love, romance and sex.

Feminists act as if no guy who wants sex is "a real nice guy." This comes from feminists' absurdly frigid and prudish perspective on the world, basically acting as if interacting with a girl because you want her romantically automatically makes you a bad guy. A guy acts nice to a girl in order to advertise his best qualities. He's saying this is how he'll treat her once they are in a relationship. There's nothing wrong with this anymore then it is wrong for a girl to mention volunteering at an animal shelter in order to advertise her best qualities.

Women want more than a 'nice' man, they want a protector and a provider... it is hardwired into them over thousands of years of human evolution - it has only been very recently where being 'nice' has counted for anything and it doesn't really now because it is something that is easy to pretend to be - now try pretending to be intelligent or be a man of means - that's a bit harder.

A lot of men put on an act and women know this.

I said to him that if a guy was nice but couldn't earn any income and was ugly that it was more understandable but in the cases we are talking about, we are referring to people who have very negative qualities that are enough to override the nice quality. What I am referring to is the fact that women dismiss guys who are say, plain looking, or even above average looking, and nice.

Women reject men for many reasons - height, weight, race, education level and many more things - one thing will disqualify you from their romantic plans - the dating game is hard! Women dismiss men from their romantic plans all the time - one thing goes wrong and you're out of the picture and you're not coming back into it.

If you're 5ft 3ins - you can be the nicest guy in the world but it isn't going to do you a lot of good when it comes to a large amount of women who want a taller man.

This is where I actually have a problem with their behavior. Back in college, every dickhead I knew could get laid either every weekend or almost every weekend while all the nice guys I knew were either completely sexless the entire time or maybe got laid once in their entire 4 years. This is because women actively dislike nice guys. And you act as if there's no problem with women having this attitude or "we can't change it so stop complaining about it."

Women dislike men who pretend to be nice guys - a nice guy is an euphemism for 'sucker' the problem is most women could see past the vast majority of you and the men who were 'dickheads' were being their honest true selves, they were able to walk away and not put up with a womans bullshit - that is what separated them from you - by the way, it took me a long time to get the ability to walk away because that is what you need to be able to do with a woman who is f***ing you around - which is what happens to most 'nice guys' because the truth is most women aren't nice people - most women are judgmental and dismissive - and we go back to this being hardwired into them regards the need for them to be choose the best mate for procreation - being nice isn't important to a woman - they need to cut through the bullshit because loads of men will try it on with them if they are in any way average - the average looking woman has more choices at her disposal than she knows what to do with.

The world would change if people stopped adopting this "nothing's ever gonna happen so just give up."

Well, no-one has ever said 'give up'

Do you think there are things you can improve on?

You have adopted a defeatist attitude.

Funnily enough, I am happier abroad? What are you doing?

What I did was saw the things within myself that needed improving and went and did it - it took decades, I got educated, I got fit and strong, I took risks, I went abroad, I learned about grooming and wearing the right clothes, I learned languages, I learned to play sports - learning discus throwing at this moment in time - what I ended up understanding about this world is the only thing you can change is YOU and how you see things... if you want to sit there and lament that no woman cares about you being 'nice' then you can sit there all day but it won't
change the fact they're not going to give a shit about you until you change what you bring to the table - become interesting, become educated, become fit and healthy - those kinds of things bring dividends... we have had many people on here who lament that though all they want to do all day is play video games and dress how they like and not bother getting in shape that no woman is interested in them - well, no shit!

The world can and does change quite often when enough people get pissed off at the way it is. This is why complaining is good, people need to know that other people are pissed off too and the more complaining people do, the more likely it is that things will change. As for me, I consider this situation to be so intolerable that I will dedicate the rest of my life to subverting this social system and trying to replace it with one that is more just.

What you are probably best off doing instead is changing what needs to be changed and that can be improved - I am sure there are many things you could improve - I know that was the case when I was your age (I am twice your age by the way, none of this came to me in a dream one night, I learned all this through experiences of life...)

And if you think the rules are different in Colombia or Brazil or wherever you want to go then you're in for a shock.

[yick]

Meanwhile, poor OP is thinking he can turn the ocean yellow by pissing in it.

[Outcast9428]

Consider this, a close friend of mine is in his early 30s, is a very nice person, has been very responsible since his early 20s to the point that by his late 20s, he already owned his own house and was making a six figure income. He's a pretty good looking guy too, no acne scars, he works out, and would probably qualify as a 7/10 on the looks scale. He is very marriage minded and does not run around trying to hump and dump any girls.

Yet, he was single for nearly a decade. A f***ing decade. If that's not a sign that the system is f***ed I don't know what is.

[yick]

Consider this, a close friend of mine is in his early 30s, is a very nice person, has been very responsible since his early 20s to the point that by his late 20s, he already owned his own house and was making a six figure income. He's a pretty good looking guy too, no acne scars, he works out, and would probably qualify as a 7/10 on the looks scale. He is very marriage minded and does not run around trying to hump and dump any girls.

Many things will disqualify you from a woman's interest - all those things are good but if he is boring, short, has a low sex drive, not proactive, shy blahblah then he can be earning six figures but he will be running out of luck.

Also, a lot of those guys aim far too high - they earn six figures so they think they can attract a swimwear model... yeah right!

Yet, he was single for nearly a decade. A f***ing decade. If that's not a sign that the system is f***ed I don't know what is.

Sounds like he worked out what needed to be done and now is off the shelf - congratulations!

No, the system is f***ed for you - the system works very nicely for women - so there is no reason why they're going to change it.

[Outcast9428]

@Shemp @yick

Um, ever heard of the Russian Revolution? None of the Communist governments happened naturally. The Bolsheviks were widely hated by the population but they still got into power and did something nobody else had ever done before. Now admittedly, they did it by shooting and starving everyone who opposed them to death. I'm not suggesting we do that and I strongly oppose communism, but what I'm saying is that you guys act as if nothing can be done about the state of things right now. What do you think the entire story of human history has been? The entire story of human history has been people deciding that something was shit and they were gonna change it. The founding fathers decided things were shit and they were gonna change things, Robespierre decided things were shit and he was gonna change things, Julius Caesar decided things were shit and he was gonna change things, Hitler decided things were shit and he was gonna change things, Mao ZeDong decided that things were shit, and he was gonna change things. Whether for good or for bad, both good and bad people throughout history have succeeded at radically turning their countries and societies upside down. And yet you guys act as if its impossible to bring back a social system that was how pretty much all of Europe ran for hundreds of years? For hundreds of years, being a good guy did matter, it mattered a lot. Why do you think the image of chivalry and gentlemen became such a big part of old fashioned European culture?

It is a very vague concept, used by not so nice guys pretending to be nice guys so they can f**k as many women as possible. Unfortunately, if you ask any woman where does being 'nice' come into their list of priorities (as a trait on its own...) it doesn't come very high.

No it really isn't. I don't see any fuckboy type guys acting nice. They usually are just sending women really crude pickup lines on Tinder or whatever. And I already said that women don't care about men being nice, but I think its immoral that they don't care and a sign of their f***ed up priorities.

Women want more than a 'nice' man, they want a protector and a provider... it is hardwired into them over thousands of years of human evolution - it has only been very recently where being 'nice' has counted for anything and it doesn't really now because it is something that is easy to pretend to be - now try pretending to be intelligent or be a man of means - that's a bit harder.

Why are you acting as if these two things are contradictory? The nice guys are the intelligent ones and the providers. The problem isn't that women want providers. The problem is that they don't. Women consistently ignore nice provider type guys and instead go for idiots who are failing school or unemployed and run around banging as many women as they can and then skipping town.

Why are you acting as if the nice guys are the ones who don't want to be providers? Its the complete other way around.

Not really, and who are 'our' enemies, we might not share enemies.

Feminists are our enemies.

Women dislike men who pretend to be nice guys - a nice guy is an euphemism for 'sucker' the problem is most women could see past the vast majority of you and the men who were 'dickheads' were being their honest true selves, they were able to walk away and not put up with a womans bullshit - that is what separated them from you - by the way, it took me a long time to get the ability to walk away because that is what you need to be able to do with a woman who is f***ing you around - which is what happens to most 'nice guys' because the truth is most women aren't nice people - most women are judgmental and dismissive - and we go back to this being hardwired into them regards the need for them to be choose the best mate for procreation - being nice isn't important to a woman - they need to cut through the bullshit because loads of men will try it on with them if they are in any way average - the average looking woman has more choices at her disposal than she knows what to do with.

No, they dislike men who are genuinely nice guys. I have never seen a nice guy who was successful with women unless he was an adolescent/20 something in the pre 1990 era. Ever. It didn't matter what he had going for him. Women in the modern era consistently ignore high quality men and go for dickheads instead.

And if you think the rules are different in Colombia or Brazil or wherever you want to go then you're in for a shock.

Of course its not different or Colombia or Brazil. I made a massive post about it the other day. Latin American culture celebrates aggressive men. But it is different in Thailand, Japan, and maybe the Philippines. Asian countries do not celebrate criminals. The women there value intelligence and morality more.

[yick]

@Shemp @yick

Um, ever heard of the Russian Revolution? None of the Communist governments happened naturally. The Bolsheviks were widely hated by the population but they still got into power and did something nobody else had ever done before. Now admittedly, they did it by shooting and starving everyone who opposed them to death. I'm not suggesting we do that and I strongly oppose communism, but what I'm saying is that you guys act as if nothing can be done about the state of things right now. What do you think the entire story of human history has been? The entire story of human history has been people deciding that something was shit and they were gonna change it. The founding fathers decided things were shit and they were gonna change things, Robespierre decided things were shit and he was gonna change things, Julius Caesar decided things were shit and he was gonna change things, Hitler decided things were shit and he was gonna change things, Mao ZeDong decided that things were shit, and he was gonna change things. Whether for good or for bad, both good and bad people throughout history have succeeded at radically turning their countries and societies upside down. And yet you guys act as if its impossible to bring back a social system that was how pretty much all of Europe ran for hundreds of years? For hundreds of years, being a good guy did matter, it mattered a lot. Why do you think the image of chivalry and gentlemen became such a big part of old fashioned European culture?

Like I said, until women decide to change the rules of the game then the rules of the game won't change - you're not going to change them by being NICE - do you think Mao Zedong brought around change by being NICE by being respectful? Or Hitler? Or Ghengis Khan or Julius Caesar?

They weren't nice guys but they got things done - they were immoral, pyschopathic and cruel - and they all managed to get women - that isn't really the best argument you're ever going to make to prove your point.

No it really isn't. I don't see any fuckboy type guys acting nice. They usually are just sending women really crude pickup lines on Tinder or whatever. And I already said that women don't care about men being nice, but I think its immoral that they don't care and a sign of their f***ed up priorities.

They don't have to.

It isn't important

Women aren't nice people generally - they are generally dismissive and judgemental and rude to men who are of no interest, why? Because they don't have time to give men who don't measure up chance after chance where there are many men who measure up.

Why are you acting as if these two things are contradictory? The nice guys are the intelligent ones and the providers. The problem isn't that women want providers. The problem is that they don't. Women consistently ignore nice provider type guys and instead go for idiots who are failing school or unemployed and run around banging as many women as they can and then skipping town.

I didn't say they were, being nice falls way down the list from being a protector and a provider - if a woman likes you and you satisfy her other criteria, she will appreciate you being nice to her (in the way of gifts and surprises...) but being nice on its own isn't a factor with women and never has been.

Being nice if you have nothing else going for you is not going to get you anywhere.

And sure, unemployed deadbeats and bums get women but they get their equal - the female versions of them - which I don't think you want anyway.

Why are you acting as if the nice guys are the ones who don't want to be providers? Its the complete other way around.

Because if they're basing on what they're offering by being nice and nothing else, then there aren't going to be many takers - women generally tend not to be nice people - and especially not to men they have no romantic interest in.

Feminists are our enemies.

Speak for yourself, they're not my enemy.

No, they dislike men who are genuinely nice guys. I have never seen a nice guy who was successful with women unless he was an adolescent/20 something in the pre 1990 era. Ever. It didn't matter what he had going for him. Women in the modern era consistently ignore high quality men and go for dickheads instead.

They dislike nice guys who a) pretend to be nice to get sex or b) genuine nice guys who are dull - you need to have more than being 'nice' I have seen inteliigent, interesting, handsome, worldly, successful men getting women - being nice on its own isn't enough...

There must be something more than you can offer a woman than just being 'nice' and are you nice all the time?

Of course its not different or Colombia or Brazil. I made a massive post about it the other day. Latin American culture celebrates aggressive men. But it is different in Thailand, Japan, and maybe the Philippines. Asian countries do not celebrate criminals. The women there value intelligence and morality more.

Not really, lots of deadbeat fathers and single mothers in both the Philippines and Thailand - look up the poster 'Jonny Law'

[Summertime]

* Again, I didn't attack you personally.

I guess English isn't your first language. You can't spell.

We have never met, so that is a big fat lie, right there.

I never have and don't want to meet you.

You're now whining about someone giving advice

That's because you have been nowhere and done nothing and aren't able to give advice over something you haven't done yourself.

Seek mental help. Insults and bad advice is all you have done in this thread. You whine constantly and then try to say others shouldn't whine. You type a lot but aren't really saying anything.

[yick]

I guess English isn't your first language. You can't spell.

Really? Where are all these spelling errors?

I never have and don't want to meet you.

Good, now f**k off.

Seek mental help.

@Winston this poster is gaslighting and being insulting for no reason at all.

Insults and bad advice is all you have done in this thread.

I have given out some excellent advice whereas what have you done?

You whine constantly and then try to say others shouldn't whine.

Not true

You type a lot but aren't really saying anything.

That's you, now please go away, you are offering nothing to this conversation.

[Winston]

Yick,
Come on. lol. Why do you always get into so many fights with others? How do they usually start? Summertime is new here. We don't even know him. How do you get into fights with new people like that? lol. You should try to diffuse them. Maybe you and others rub each other the wrong way without meaning to. Or maybe you try to play tough guy and it rubs some guys the wrong way? Do you get into fights in real life too? What about in bars and pubs?

Summertime, come on. Just drop it and leave him alone. These ego battles do no one any good.

[Shemp]

Summertime is definitely gaslighting when he says yick can't spell. Clear violation of forum rules.

[yick]

Yick,
Come on. lol. Why do you always get into so many fights with others? How do they usually start? Summertime is new here. We don't even know him. How do you get into fights with new people like that? lol. You should try to diffuse them. Maybe you and others rub each other the wrong way without meaning to. Or maybe you try to play tough guy and it rubs some guys the wrong way? Do you get into fights in real life too? What about in bars and pubs?

Summertime, come on. Just drop it and leave him alone. These ego battles do no one any good.

He STARTED it! You can see he is trolling the f**k out of this place! I am not trolling him! I am asking him to offer the OP some advice and he asks me to seek help! He is just a prick! Anyway, that's a good example of 'gaslighting'

[yick]

Summertime is definitely gaslighting when he says yick can't spell. Clear violation of forum rules.

Cheers Frank!