Mayan mothers feel sorry for U.S. babies

[Falcon]

Some aspects of American-style parenting can seem quite cruel to non-American mothers. American parents often focus too much on trying to make their kids independent and self-confident, thus leading them to become lonely people who can only think about themselves.


http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessi ... p.dp92.pdf

Most of the families regarded their sleeping arrangements as the only reasonable way for a baby and parents to sleep. In addition, in five interviews the subject of how U.S. families handle sleeping arrangements came up. Invariably, the idea that toddlers are put to sleep in a separate room was received with shock, disapproval, and pity. One mother responded, "But there's someone else with them, isn't there?" When told that they are sometimes alone in the room the mother gasped and went on to express pity for the U.S. babies. Another mother responded with shock and disbelief, asked whether the babies do not mind, and added with feeling that it would be very painful for her to have to do that. These responses of the Mayan parents gave the impression that they regarded the practice of having infants and toddlers sleep in separate rooms as tantamount to child neglect. Their reactions and their accounts of their own sleeping arrangements seemed to indicate that their arrangements were a matter of commitment to a certain kind of relationship with their young children and not a result of practical limitations (such as number of rooms in the house).


http://jordanboeve.wordpress.com/psycho ... -approach/

"Mayan mothers were appalled upon hearing that American mothers transition their children into sleeping in their own room at a very young age (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608). They, on the other hand, sleep with their babies until a younger sibling is born. Then they must acclimate the older child to sleeping elsewhere, though normally it is still in the same room and sometimes even in the same bed as the parents (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608). This transition can be difficult and painful for the child being moved. However, parents try to make the child accustomed to sleeping with another family member before the new baby is born, thus weaning them from sleeping at the mother’s side. The families had no set routine or schedule for bedtime. The children would fall asleep whenever the parents did, without changing into pajamas or having a story or lullaby (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608)."

Reference: Gilda A Morelli, Barbara Rogoff, David Oppenheim, Denise Goldsmith (1992). Cultural variation in infants' sleeping arrangements: Questions of independence. http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessi ... p.dp92.pdf

[PeterAndrewNolan]

We put our first child into the nursery right off the bat. I think it was bad for her in retrospect. When my son was born I said that he was to sleep in our bed and he did. We had his bed ready for him when he was ready to move to it in his big sisters room.

One night when we went to bed....he popped his little head up....looked around....climbed over Jennifer and climbed down out of the bed. He could not walk then so he crawled over to the steps out of our bedroom...climbed up the steps and disappeared out the door. Since I was wondering where he was going I got out of bed to follow him. He had crawled into his bedroom, climbed into his bed, put his head down to sleep.

I went in and looked him over, sat next to him and patted him on the head. He gave me this HUGE smile like knew new what he had just done. I could swear he said "my bed" but he could not talk then either so maybe it was just me thinking it. He never came back to our bed. He was "growing up" and my last baby had been in my bed. I was touched and a little saddened as I went back to bed.

This, in my opinion, is the best way to do it. Let the baby grow out of wanting to sleep in the same bed....you have to make sure you do not pamper them in the bed or they will never leave.

[Jester]

....I could swear he said "my bed" but he could not talk then either so maybe it was just me thinking it. He never came back to our bed. He was "growing up" and my last baby had been in my bed. I was touched and a little saddened as I went back to bed.

This, in my opinion, is the best way to do it. Let the baby grow out of wanting to sleep in the same bed....you have to make sure you do not pamper them in the bed or they will never leave.

Very nice post, thanks.

I intend to do some things differently, if God should bless me with another crop to raise. Tis may be one.

[Jester]

"Mayan mothers were appalled upon hearing that American mothers transition their children into sleeping in their own room at a very young age (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608). They, on the other hand, sleep with their babies until a younger sibling is born. Then they must acclimate the older child to sleeping elsewhere, though normally it is still in the same room and sometimes even in the same bed as the parents ..."

All very charming.

And true - I know of Mexicans in L.A. who are like this, even pre-teens or teens sleeping with parents or abuela.

But
(1) Aren't people worried about rolling over on an infant?
(2) Isn't it hard to sleep with a toddler kicking you in the nuts?
(3) How do you have sex with your wife with kids in the bed?

I guess there is a way - since Mexicans do seem to be able to reproduce SOMEHOW...

[DistanceRunner]

Some aspects of American-style parenting can seem quite cruel to non-American mothers. American parents often focus too much on trying to make their kids independent and self-confident, thus leading them to become lonely people who can only think about themselves.


http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessi ... p.dp92.pdf

Most of the families regarded their sleeping arrangements as the only reasonable way for a baby and parents to sleep. In addition, in five interviews the subject of how U.S. families handle sleeping arrangements came up. Invariably, the idea that toddlers are put to sleep in a separate room was received with shock, disapproval, and pity. One mother responded, "But there's someone else with them, isn't there?" When told that they are sometimes alone in the room the mother gasped and went on to express pity for the U.S. babies. Another mother responded with shock and disbelief, asked whether the babies do not mind, and added with feeling that it would be very painful for her to have to do that. These responses of the Mayan parents gave the impression that they regarded the practice of having infants and toddlers sleep in separate rooms as tantamount to child neglect. Their reactions and their accounts of their own sleeping arrangements seemed to indicate that their arrangements were a matter of commitment to a certain kind of relationship with their young children and not a result of practical limitations (such as number of rooms in the house).


http://jordanboeve.wordpress.com/psycho ... -approach/

"Mayan mothers were appalled upon hearing that American mothers transition their children into sleeping in their own room at a very young age (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608). They, on the other hand, sleep with their babies until a younger sibling is born. Then they must acclimate the older child to sleeping elsewhere, though normally it is still in the same room and sometimes even in the same bed as the parents (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608). This transition can be difficult and painful for the child being moved. However, parents try to make the child accustomed to sleeping with another family member before the new baby is born, thus weaning them from sleeping at the mother’s side. The families had no set routine or schedule for bedtime. The children would fall asleep whenever the parents did, without changing into pajamas or having a story or lullaby (Morelli, Rogoff, Oppenheim, & Goldsmith, 1992, p. 608)."

Reference: Gilda A Morelli, Barbara Rogoff, David Oppenheim, Denise Goldsmith (1992). Cultural variation in infants' sleeping arrangements: Questions of independence. http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessi ... p.dp92.pdf

Great find, I didn't envision that this was really a style of American parenting. Seems like I've learned something new.

[E_Irizarry]

We put our first child into the nursery right off the bat. I think it was bad for her in retrospect. When my son was born I said that he was to sleep in our bed and he did. We had his bed ready for him when he was ready to move to it in his big sisters room.

One night when we went to bed....he popped his little head up....looked around....climbed over Jennifer and climbed down out of the bed. He could not walk then so he crawled over to the steps out of our bedroom...climbed up the steps and disappeared out the door. Since I was wondering where he was going I got out of bed to follow him. He had crawled into his bedroom, climbed into his bed, put his head down to sleep.

I went in and looked him over, sat next to him and patted him on the head. He gave me this HUGE smile like knew new what he had just done. I could swear he said "my bed" but he could not talk then either so maybe it was just me thinking it. He never came back to our bed. He was "growing up" and my last baby had been in my bed. I was touched and a little saddened as I went back to bed.

This, in my opinion, is the best way to do it. Let the baby grow out of wanting to sleep in the same bed....you have to make sure you do not pamper them in the bed or they will never leave.

That was sweet, man. I love kids at that age. I really do, man.

[Falcon]

@ Jester

Those are American concerns.

(1) Aren't people worried about rolling over on an infant? - Mayan parents don't roll over that much compared to stressed out, depressed American parents with obesity and back problems.
(2) Isn't it hard to sleep with a toddler kicking you in the nuts? - They're attached to their parents, so they most likely won't do that.
(3) How do you have sex with your wife with kids in the bed? - Of course they do it before or after the baby's sleeptime, or abstain from it.

If something does go wrong, the baby will just cry, the problem will be resolved quickly, and everyone goes back to sleep.

Infants die more when sleeping by themselves than with parents (there's a sudden infant death phenomenon that you can search up on Google).

[PeterAndrewNolan]

E_Irizarry-Jester,
thanks for the compliments.

I was at the Villa Kennedy one time (http://www.villakennedy.com) with my fav#3. We were having sunday brunch out on the courtyard. It was one of those days "out of the box". I used to LOVE taking her there and enjoying the weekend together.

Anyway. This Sunday morning was the night after a big saturday wedding and many guests were also having brunch. Of course all the kids were running around. This little girl, about 2, came to our table. I should remind you I am 187cm and 100kgs...so a large man.

The little girl was at first shy and so I smiled at her and talked to her in German. She started giggling and talking back. Then she did this little skip and dance as small girls are want to do to show off to someone they have just met....and she talked some more...and finally turned to skip back off to her family.

When I turned to look at fav#3 she had this really strange look on her face...the conversation went like this.

fav#3. "That little girl talked to you, she was very relaxed around you, that is really very unusual, little girls do not talk to big men like you normally"

Peter: "I told you, I am very good with children, I raised 4, remember."

fav#3: "I know you have told me that, but honestly, I didn't believe you, now I believe you."

Peter: "Well thank you"

Fav#3: "Can I ask you a question?"

Peter: "There is no need to ask sweetheart, you are free to ask me any question you want, ok?"

Fav#3: "Ok.......seeing you with that little girl, I now really understand how much you must have loved your children and how good you might have been with them. If that is how you are with a little girl you have never met, you must have so loved your daughter....and your son of course. So my question is....how do you live without them? How do you survive?"

Peter: "Sweetheart, I have told you the answer to that question before, but maybe now you will understand it. To disown my former children was the most difficult thing I ever did. I told you I was suicidal and I wanted to kill myself for a month. I told you that the only way I could stay alive was to no longer consider them my children. Now do you see? Now do you see that if a man loves his children as much as I loved mine that there is no way for him to live his life as it was without them? Do you see why I had to do that now?"

Fav#3: (By now she had tears in her eyes because, for the first time, she REALLY got how much I loved my former children. She had never REALLY got it before. She had tried hard but since we were not around children she did not see me interact with them and did not realise how good I was with children.)

Yes...now I understand, I really, really understand. I can not imagine what you went through. I am so sorry for you. I am so sorry your children have lost a father who loved them so much.


Another time we were staying together. I woke up before her and went to the bathroom to shower, shave, brush teeth etc. As I went to the bathroom I noticed that the blankets had fallen off her a bit. So I pulled the blankets up and gave he a kiss on the forehead. I thought nothing of it. Later, at breakfast, the conversation went.

Fav#3. "This morning you pulled the blanket up over me and kissed me on the forehead. Why did you do that?"

Peter: "Well, I thought you might be cold, and you just looked so beautiful lying there. I thought you were asleep. I just like you. And kissing you on the forehead is just something I do with women I like. It is a sign of affection, of caring. Why do you ask?"

fav#3: "No one ever did that for me other than my father. I was really touched and you reminded me of him."

Peter: "Really? No boyfriend has EVER done that for you? In many ways I tend to act like a father or a father figure to the women I date. I have a very strong "protect and provide" story given to me by my father and that is what I did for many years too."

Fav#3. "Your wife threw away a husband like you......just amazing.......I have never met another man like you. Do you have any idea how many women like me want a husband like you?"

Peter: "Actually, yes, I do. But you all want babies too."

[Jester]

@ Jester

Those are American concerns.

(1) Aren't people worried about rolling over on an infant? - Mayan parents don't roll over that much compared to stressed out, depressed American parents with obesity and back problems.
(2) Isn't it hard to sleep with a toddler kicking you in the nuts? - They're attached to their parents, so they most likely won't do that.
(3) How do you have sex with your wife with kids in the bed? - Of course they do it before or after the baby's sleeptime, or abstain from it.

If something does go wrong, the baby will just cry, the problem will be resolved quickly, and everyone goes back to sleep.

Infants die more when sleeping by themselves than with parents (there's a sudden infant death phenomenon that you can search up on Google).

Thanks.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Infants die more when sleeping by themselves than with parents (there's a sudden infant death phenomenon that you can search up on Google).

Falcon,
there is more and more evidence emerging that SIDS is a lie to cover up women killing their babies.

The woman who lost FIVE babies to SIDS confessed years later that she killed them.....then, as soon as she lawyered up she recanted the confession.

Babies do not just die in their sleep for no reason. I am VERY skeptical of SIDS being anything other than a lie to protect women who murder their children.