The Folly of MGTOW

[Erasmus]

Like feminism, MGTOW goes against the interests of the individual.

Feminism is really about lesbianism, hatred for men, and hatred for children. It is also about women who are physically unattractive and unable to get decent men. Look at Andrea Dworkin, for instance.

What is MGTOW? MGTOW can literally encompass anything, but many MGTOWs consider men who are married or involved with women to be traitors and not true MGTOW. You might also notice that when the MGTOW finally get women, they retire from the forums and MGTOW altogether. Their MGTOW status is more about sexual frustration rather than true contempt for the system. In many ways the average fembitch is correct when she says that men who can't get laid are the ones who are the most anti-feminist. You can see that because those men do drop off the manosphere radar when they begin to get laid. It wasnt even about the issues. It was about their lack of reproductive success.

There are hardcore MGTOW out there but they are few. They are afraid of false accusations, child support, and alimony. These men are the ones who swear they will never have children or get married. These are the true MGTOW. Unfortunately for them, they are the mirror image of feminists. Like the lesbians, they will never have families. They will never reproduce. Their fear of what could happen has literally crippled these men. They will not even allow for the possibility of a woman treating them fairly. They are like the girls who are afraid of every man because they know there is a percentage of men who are rapists. Their solution is to hide from women, much the same way a fearful woman would hide from a known offender.

And this is why MGTOW is folly: it leads to zero children, zero family, zero affection, and zero love. These men ought to go live in the Alaskan wilderness or otherwise become hermits. That is the whole concept of a portion of MGTOW known as ghosting. These men will live a lifestyle of subsistence. They will merely survive. They will never thrive or even experience life because they are afraid of what might happen if they dared to even touch a woman.

The best concept these men have come up with is to hide from women in a communal lifestyle in which there are bunkbeds in a monastery type setting, but with hookers that come every weekend. But if I wanted hookers every weekend, why would I need to live in a monastery environment with a whole bunch of guys with their screws loose because they're afraid of poessy?

MGTOW are the male version of the cat lady. They deny themselves life out of fear. They would rather live alone with 8 cats from the shelter than risk going out and asking a woman for a date or marrying a woman from Colombia or the Philippines. All women are bad, not just the western ones to many of these MGTOW.

Lastly, they are unwittingly fulfilling the depopulation agenda. The goal of feminism is to separate men and women to decrease the population of intelligent people. Feminism has successfully defeated the MGTOW. They merely think they are reacting to their circumstances. No. They are really doing exactly what they are supposed to do according to the depopulation agenda and that is to stop reproducing.

[jamesbond]

That was well said Erasmus, there are quite a few similarities between MGTOW and feminism. They both hate the traditional family (mother, father and children) they both are scared to death of the opposite sex (they think the opposite sex is out to get them) and they both think ALL members of the opposite sex are evil and wicked.

Your right, once guys in the MGTOW community are able to get laid, they abandon MGTOW completely.

[romparoo]

The more one reads the manosphere the more confused one will get. I don't think there is an official definition of MGTOW, just many men defining it as if they own the word. With so many junk in the manosphere, there is only this one thing I fully support, whatever the term to describe it:

That is to not marry a hoe. Any decent women will have little reason to remain unmarried after 30. Excluding the few extremely unattractive women who were desired by no men, the rest were simply average to good looking women riding the cock carousel in their 20s. You don't want to marry these hoes when they hit the wall, because doing so perpetuate the cycle where women can be irresponsible and still they will be forgiven and accepted once they hit the wall. DO NOT do that no matter how desperate you are. Give your love and attention to the women who deserve it. All men need to stop funding and validatng bad behavior. If all men do this, the feminazism will collapse faster than most of us imagine.

Last I know, this theme can be found in both MGTOW and Red Pill materials. This is the only valid advice worth listening to.

[GoingAwol]

I disagree with alot of what you said. First of all, mgtow is not like feminism. Yes both groups may be bitter towards the opposite gender and fear them but that's where the similarities end. The biggest difference is the fact that men actually have a reason to fear getting involved with women. Over half of all marriages end in divorce and men often get taken to the cleaners in divorces. So a man has a 50/50 shot of getting really screwed over if he gets involved with a woman. A man getting divorce raped is much more likely than a woman getting raped in the traditional sense of the word. I think men have legitimate fears and concerns while women's are largely irrational. Also, as much as I hate feminists I have to disagree with you about their level of attractiveness. Many young modern feminists are decent looking to hot women that are college educated and come from middle class to rich families. It's also untrue that they can't get men. Many of them are huge sluts that sleep with the Chad Thundercocks of the world. The modern feminists hate unattractive men... They are the hypocrites that shame men for flirting with women and call them creepy but will have a completely different attitude if it's a hot alpha male.
However, I did agree with you on one thing. MGTOW is definitely motivated by sexual frustration.I would even go as far as saying that a man can't become mgtow unless he went through extended periods of celibacy. I think this is because your eyes are opened to how much power women have When you live that lifestyle. You really see how easy women have it in a lot of areas and the bitterness sets in and you become a mgtow. I think most men (even sexually successful ones) can intellectually understand that men have the short end of the stick in society but don't want to rock the boat because they have a woman and a job and are basically content despite the BS. I also agree that many mgtows will forget all about the movement when and if they get involved with a woman. I think the explanation for that phenomenon is very simple. Love blinds.... When you first fall in love you get stupid and forget everything else but the person you fell for. However, this does not mean that mgtow lacks legitimacy because of that.

[Maverick]

The "movement" MGTOW is stupid and pointless.

True MGTOW (men going their own way) do just that. They don't jerk off to anti-feminist rants on anonymous internet forums.

I know a guy, who is very average in just about everything and short, that married an extremely attractive, high earning woman. She makes far more than he does. He confided in me that if things go to shit in that relationship, she'll be the one to pay for it financially.

That's what a true MGTOW is. They do their own thing and make the current system work for them. They adapt and conquer.

[Ghost]

.

[Erasmus]

I disagree with alot of what you said. First of all, mgtow is not like feminism. Yes both groups may be bitter towards the opposite gender and fear them but that's where the similarities end. The biggest difference is the fact that men actually have a reason to fear getting involved with women. Over half of all marriages end in divorce and men often get taken to the cleaners in divorces. So a man has a 50/50 shot of getting really screwed over if he gets involved with a woman. A man getting divorce raped is much more likely than a woman getting raped in the traditional sense of the word. I think men have legitimate fears and concerns while women's are largely irrational. Also, as much as I hate feminists I have to disagree with you about their level of attractiveness. Many young modern feminists are decent looking to hot women that are college educated and come from middle class to rich families. It's also untrue that they can't get men. Many of them are huge sluts that sleep with the Chad Thundercocks of the world. The modern feminists hate unattractive men... They are the hypocrites that shame men for flirting with women and call them creepy but will have a completely different attitude if it's a hot alpha male.
However, I did agree with you on one thing. MGTOW is definitely motivated by sexual frustration.I would even go as far as saying that a man can't become mgtow unless he went through extended periods of celibacy. I think this is because your eyes are opened to how much power women have When you live that lifestyle. You really see how easy women have it in a lot of areas and the bitterness sets in and you become a mgtow. I think most men (even sexually successful ones) can intellectually understand that men have the short end of the stick in society but don't want to rock the boat because they have a woman and a job and are basically content despite the BS. I also agree that many mgtows will forget all about the movement when and if they get involved with a woman. I think the explanation for that phenomenon is very simple. Love blinds.... When you first fall in love you get stupid and forget everything else but the person you fell for. However, this does not mean that mgtow lacks legitimacy because of that.

It is not because love is blind. You said it yourself. It is because of extended celibacy. I certainly empathize with that, but that is also the reason why these movements will never be successful. Leaving the movement is your best option because it means you finally got a woman. If you stay within the movement, you will live and die the same way those feminists will: calling pets your children.

[GoingAwol]

Yes,
I agreed that most of the men in the mgtow movement went through long periods of incelibacy. I think celibacy is the catalyst for the movement. This is because you really start to see how much power women have when you live the incel life and you start to see the larger issues in society. To put it bluntly incel opens your eyes.When I said that "love blinds" I meant that falling in love might make a man forget about all of this stuff but it doesn't change the fact that there is alot of truth in the mgtow movement. Its still a legitimate movement even if some guys leave and forget it when they get a girlfriend or get laid.

[Yohan]

Like feminism, MGTOW goes against the interests of the individual.
-----
And this is why MGTOW is folly: it leads to zero children, zero family, zero affection, and zero love.
-----
They would rather live alone with 8 cats from the shelter than risk going out and asking a woman for a date or marrying a woman from Colombia or the Philippines. All women are bad, not just the western ones to many of these MGTOW.

Nonsense,

MGTOW goes against the interests of some malicious feminists and some mangina too, but for sure not against the interests of the man himself who prefers this life style.

might be that some totally frustrated men in USA are like that, but for sure not the majority of men who prefer going their own way.

I consider myself clearly against feminism and MGTOW, but I am married, (of course foreign wife) since decades, never divorced, living away from feminist-friendly countries, have 2 daughters and also a fosterdaughter.

I would say, MGTOW like I myself are risk averse - in my native country divorce rate is up to 51 percent in rural areas and up to 68 percent in the cities during the last years and almost every divorce is a business for the ex-wife.

If you know any reason why a man should look out for a woman in a feminist friendly country, please let me know.

Not all women are bad, but the problem in feminist friendly countries is the legal situation, which is biased towards women, even in a case of severe wrongdoings. As a man, how do you know who is who? As a man you totally depend on her mood. And if you meet the wrong girl, you will be out of your own home and you will pay and pay, and there is nothing what you can do about it.

[Cornfed]

Like feminism, MGTOW goes against the interests of the individual.

It is certainly not ideal, but what is the alternative for the average man given the relentless persecution of men who try to live a normal family life in the West?

[Erasmus]

Like feminism, MGTOW goes against the interests of the individual.
-----
And this is why MGTOW is folly: it leads to zero children, zero family, zero affection, and zero love.
-----
They would rather live alone with 8 cats from the shelter than risk going out and asking a woman for a date or marrying a woman from Colombia or the Philippines. All women are bad, not just the western ones to many of these MGTOW.

Nonsense,

MGTOW goes against the interests of some malicious feminists and some mangina too, but for sure not against the interests of the man himself who prefers this life style.

might be that some totally frustrated men in USA are like that, but for sure not the majority of men who prefer going their own way.

I consider myself clearly against feminism and MGTOW, but I am married, (of course foreign wife) since decades, never divorced, living away from feminist-friendly countries, have 2 daughters and also a fosterdaughter.

I would say, MGTOW like I myself are risk averse - in my native country divorce rate is up to 51 percent in rural areas and up to 68 percent in the cities during the last years and almost every divorce is a business for the ex-wife.

If you know any reason why a man should look out for a woman in a feminist friendly country, please let me know.

Not all women are bad, but the problem in feminist friendly countries is the legal situation, which is biased towards women, even in a case of severe wrongdoings. As a man, how do you know who is who? As a man you totally depend on her mood. And if you meet the wrong girl, you will be out of your own home and you will pay and pay, and there is nothing what you can do about it.

Statistics show that many heart attacks happen on Monday. When many people learned that, they decided that they ought to skip starting work on Monday and rather go on Tuesday. The problem with that is it doesnt matter what the name of the day is. It matters which day is the first day back to work. Knowing that many heart attacks happen on the first day of work every week, should I avoid going to work the first day of the week?

Should I simply look both ways before crossing the street? Should I put down the cigarette? Should I go through the body scanner or not?

There is a risk any time you get out of bed. Is the solution to stay in bed? To sleep in someone else's bed? To have a teddybear by my side at all times?

The worst case scenario does happen. Should the worst case scenario frighten you so much that you stay in bed every morning?

There's a chance that a man can go into work and get fired today. Maybe he shouldnt bother getting a job, because they might fire him later on.

There is no doubt that American women are screwed up. There is no doubt that the legal system is screwed up. So far though, these worst case scenarios aren't even happening to the majority of men. The ones who seem to get it the worst are the famous ones we get to read about, who can afford it. Certainly they don't write articles on the average men, but I do believe the "impact" of these negative stories carries more weight in individuals with certain personalities.

If 80% of marriages between American men and Foreign women are successful, then why are there so many griping MGTOWs on these forums? They could just fly to the Philippines and find wives. That is because there don't have any interest in finding women. They just care about complaining about women and feminism but will never do anything to improve their situation.

By some miracle, these men also think that by getting together and meditating on a topic on an internet forum with ten other guys is going to magically alleviate the situation, when TPTB are not going to budge one iota.

There is also an obsession with money and holding onto it. People are more important than money, sorry to put it that way, but that is how it is. Always choose people over money. Money is important. People are much more important than money, if you have the right people. Lots of men would be willing to kill someone if that person was going to steal a million dollars from them. What for? That person who stole the money will go through that money within a week or two, while the man will have already earned it back, because he knows how.

But I suppose survival is better than thriving to some people.

[Yohan]

..... but what is the alternative for the average man given the relentless persecution of men who try to live a normal family life in the West?

This is a good question...

For me personally the answer is to try to live a normal family life, but NOT in the West.

[Yohan]

If 80% of marriages between American men and Foreign women are successful, then why are there so many griping MGTOWs on these forums? They could just fly to the Philippines and find wives...

Yes, they can go over to Philippines and find wives, however this is not the point. The question is how long can they live there with their foreign wives? The point is as man you have to earn money for a living, for yourself, for your wife and your children and this is very difficult for a foreigner in Philippines or Cambodia ...

Many Scandinavians for example prefer to work 7 months in their feminist friendly native country, and spending 5 months in Thailand or elsewhere, this makes it safe for them not to run out of money and to enjoy a reasonable insurance cover for illness, accident and retirement.

To run out of money while living abroad is a very serious concern. Medical care overseas in case of an emergency might push you into bankruptcy. Theft and fraud also should be mentioned. etc. etc.

There are cities like Pattaya - such unlucky foreign guys are drinking their last bottle of whisky, opening a window in a high-rise condominium building or hotel and are jumping out...

You can NEVER exclude any risk totally when you decide to move to abroad, far away from your own native country. To be risk-averse however and to think twice before going ahead is not necessarily a bad or wrong thing.

[Yohan]

If you stay within the movement, you will live and die the same way those feminists will: calling pets your children.

+100
This one sentence sums up both MGTOW and feminism perfectly!

There are of course men, mainly from USA I think, who are not able or willing out of various reasons to move out of their own country.
They prefer - often after a very bad experience with local women - to enjoy a nice life with a dog and motorcycle etc. What's wrong with that?

I see nothing which justifies to compare feminism with MGTOW. Feminism is a hateful movement, not productive and highly into extortion of money from men (often ex-husband and fathers), companies (claiming discrimination) and public funds (to become 'equals') to finance its existence.

I do not know about a similar activity from MGTOW. I also do not know about any activity from Western feminists, calling for relocation to foreign countries looking for a 'mail-order groom'.

Feminist issues about women and girls are the highlights of all Western media, but I do not know about any media support for MGTOW, a small movement which has to finance itself. Western feminists are always deeply upset about MGTOW/MRA activities and I ask myself why. It's a fighting position similar to David and Goliath ... for sure to compare feminism with MGTOW is absurd.

[mahadeveshwara]

MGTOW is about men regaining autonomy in a system that marginalizes, oppresses, or is hostile to them. As such, moving abroad and developing independent income (or local income in a non-hostile society) is a natural evolution of such a train of thought. I read two MGTOW forums, and on both of them there are currently threads about expatriation on the first page. It's just that it's not a focus, because expatriating is not possible for a lot of people. They have careers. Those who are ideologues, who try to narrowly define MGTOW and gang up against those who do not adhere to the party line (such as incels) are neophyte. But it is not the case that MGTOW and expatriation are two separate schools of thought that need to be opposed to each other.

I used to read MGTOW forums when I lived in the US. It helped me immensely to detach from the dysfunctional dating culture of the US, where I was getting burned badly. I would still entertain dalliances with women, but only if I didn't have to put any effort into it or compromise my principles (eg give them attention or praise that they had not earned).

However, I think that getting married and having children is the natural order of things for most people. And if you live in a country where divorce laws are practically nonexistent or unenforceable, then the financial disincentive for getting married and having a family does not exist. So the main talking point of MGTOWs, DON"T GET MARRIED DON"T GET MARRIED DON"T GET MARRIED, crumbles into dust.

I do realize that expatriation is not a solution for everyone. But if teaching English is one of the main expatriate jobs, and you can make $800 a month... people say that is not enough to have a family. But according to what standard of living? There are plenty of families who live fine on that or less. Just another ethnocentric assumption that Americans make, similar to MARRIAGE AND ALL WOMEN ARE BAD EVERYWHERE BECAUSE FAMILY COURTS HERP DERP