Does doing what society says lead to a life of hell?

[Winston]

I was wondering something the other day. Does doing what society says lead to a life of hell? I mean, society tells everyone to get a steady job so they can make a living, and to get married so they can raise a family.

But the thing is, when you get a regular job, you are tied down to ONE geographic location. And most places in the US suck, they either consist of suburban strip malls and conveniences in an anti-social isolated community, or small towns in the middle of nowhere. So basically a job ties you to a place that probably sucks (unless your only interest is to work and consume).

And also, when you get married, the sex is only good for a few months. After that the novelty wears off and you have it less and less frequently. Eventually you settle into a sexless life together. But you can't seek out other new and exciting partners or flings, ethically at least, cause of the marriage vows. So basically, you eventually get a sexless life and aren't allowed to do anything about it, which means you can never make love to another hot woman again! (if you keep your marriage vows that is)

So essentially if you do what society says, you are stuck in shitty place that sucks and live a sexless life, unable to move or make love to hot women of your dreams and fantasies anymore!

DOESN'T THAT SUCK?!

So, does obeying society lead to a life of hell?

[momopi]

Quoting one of my lady friends, there are 3 types of people: grass, tree, and cloud.

Grass types are happy when they find a nice sunny field to plant their roots.

Cloud types are more fickle, they change shape and move with the wind. They're happy when they're moving to new and exciting places.

Tree types plant their roots, but can grow tall into the sky. They can understand grass and cloud, but belong to neither.


If you find yourself in the sky as a cloud, looking down and wondering how all the grass can stand being rooted down, you should probably consider that they're looking up and wondering how you could stand being blown around by the wind.

[Winston]

lol sounds like a wise Chinese proverb, like something from the masters who taught the grasshopper in "Kung Fu" lol.

I don't get what kind of person the "tree" type is though. Can you give an example?

[momopi]

lol sounds like a wise Chinese proverb, like something from the masters who taught the grasshopper in "Kung Fu" lol.

I don't get what kind of person the "tree" type is though. Can you give an example?

A cloud is defined by its mobility, versus a tree is defined by its reach.

A tree can choose to be high-growing, low-laying, blooming, color-changing, fast-growing, slow-growing, etc. But ultimately they are rooted and must grow their branches in the direction where they want to go.

To cite examples,

A Taiwanese immigrant who moves to Los Angeles, settles down, marry, and have a family is probably closer to grass. Despite having moved such long distance, he's a transplated grass.

A British man based in London worked hard to save $ and carefully invests in properties across Europe, spends 3-6 months every year living in Spain and France, is probably closer to a tree.

[icarus]

In short, I think no, although you have to define hell for each person. Right now I work in an office, usually well over 40 hours a week. Although it sucks sometimes, for me at least it wouldn't be hell unless I have to endure many years of this type of drudgery. When I stop to think about how I'm making decent money and have the ability to travel several times a year for pleasure, then it's tolerable. (Needless to say, I'm planning my escape in the not-too-distant future) When I look at a maintenance man working less hours than me, but in the hot-nasty humid south-Texas sun, or a short order cook in a blazing kitchen with few career prospects, then I say THAT'S hell! If you define living a life of dull anonymous mediocrity as hell, then it is hell if that's what your stuck with. If the simple life is just fine and dandy for you- as it seems to be for my parents, then it's not.

Overall, I'd try not to be too judgmental about people who follow society's rules. If someone berates me for being over 30 and not married with no kids, then I will put him/her in their place. But let's face it, I don't think the world would function very well if everyone lived their lives the way you advocate here, or on other expat sites. So much of the creature comforts of modern life are due to the millions of people who toil away day-in and day-out in labs, offices, construction sites, etc. If you can buck the trend, then you are very fortunate.

[Montanaland]

The "only" rule of life that I know is to be happy! If your dirt poor or the grass type, but living a very, very happy life..than you have lived life to the fullest.

I don't have the answer, but I have come across a very intelligent "plan" that John T Reed published in his succeeding book. He ranks the top #5 most important things in ones life.

1. use/abuse of alcohol, drugs,:gambling,suicide
2. Spouse choice
3. children
4. career choice
5. education


I left out ethics... because they are ones Beliefs which are the worst thing that can take over your life.. and the biggest enemy to traders. I hate when people try to enforce or lay their beliefs on you..

It would deffinetly be hard to beat sexual promiscuity and traveling since now they are pointing to studies that we were meant to always want to sleep around.


In-depth personality tests that match you with a career...and doing hobbies that you really like are probably the right direction to go although young hot women will probably keep us interested until we are in our 70's+


Icarus- let the married people that hold onto are parent's beliefs that they need to settle down with kids and/or toil away at the some gig while looking forward to weekend trips to strip malls and restaurants in their hometown. Since we are single and educated we can live the life of Ladislav/Mr. S etc. and even try to make more money through other ways like some kind of a business.


I highly respect the individuals on this forum that are living life to the fullest!

[Shokkers]

I've got to point out a few things...

Society actually DOESN'T "Tell" you to do a whole lot of things.
A lot of things are 'inferred'.
For example, society doesn't actually SAY 'get a job'.
At a certain point...Age 18 for most of us...you're legally an adult. Parents aren't responsible for your survival, so you have to take care of yourself, that's why most everyone gets a job.

Nor does Society say "Get married". What happens is, a good amount of people eventually want offspring; they realize they have to mate to do it (although we're the generation that finally has options beyond the nuclear family...surrogates and such...), or they want to 'settle down', get some stability and roots; or they're convinced they've found "The One" and want them to stay around forever (or at least more than a year)...and there is of course some pressure from religions, relatives, and 'paired-up' friends...so people get married.

The one WRONG thing about this arrangement is that married couples get tax advantages, which they shouldn't. It's the same thing with home ownership. The government rewards 'proper' behavior (marriage, home buying) because it promotes societal stability, but it really doesn't have any business doing that.

Now, as to it being "Hell", that depends on what you call hell. To me, Hell On Earth would be Jon's role in "Jon and Kate Plus 8". I can see where typical marriages get boring. However, married men oddly report being happier and are said to have better immune systems, more success at work and fewer periods of depression. Strangely, women's happiness goes DOWN after marriage...maybe some day they'll all stop demanding it.

[momopi]

The one WRONG thing about this arrangement is that married couples get tax advantages, which they shouldn't. It's the same thing with home ownership. The government rewards 'proper' behavior (marriage, home buying) because it promotes societal stability, but it really doesn't have any business doing that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty


====================

Here's one indication of grass vs. cloud: pets.

Grass types tend to be stable and can afford long-term commitments like pets (cats and dogs live for >10 years). Cloud types lack the stability and commitment to maintain pets.

[Repatriate]

My cousin followed the conventional and expected life route in America. He married a Taiwanese-American girl and bought a house, had a child in his early 30's, and both of them have good careers. She makes more money than he does. Apparently it's a very happy relationship and their kid is a darling. Then again the key here is he didn't marry a typical American woman and he has deeper ethno-cultural ties to the woman he married.

I wouldn't say this formula doesn't work I just think you just have to know what you want and get lucky too in life. Would I trade my lifestyle for my cousins? Heck no. However, I knew what I wanted early on in life and so does he.

[Winston]

My cousin followed the conventional and expected life route in America. He married a Taiwanese-American girl and bought a house, had a child in his early 30's, and both of them have good careers. She makes more money than he does. Apparently it's a very happy relationship and their kid is a darling. Then again the key here is he didn't marry a typical American woman and he has deeper ethno-cultural ties to the woman he married.

I wouldn't say this formula doesn't work I just think you just have to know what you want and get lucky too in life. Would I trade my lifestyle for my cousins? Heck no. However, I knew what I wanted early on in life and so does he.

All of my cousins followed that same route too. I guess most Taiwanese thrive on routine. It depends on what makes you happy. But bottom line: Your cousin is a slave to his company and wife. He does not get up everyday and get to do whatever he wants. He literally has no freedom, from any vantage people. Some don't need freedom of course, they prefer mechanistic safe routines. Usually in life, when you have more of one thing, you lose more of another. It's a tradeoff of balances. Very few people have it all. And even when you have it all, you always think about that thing that you don't have and never got, whatever it is. We want the most what we don't have or can't have.

My cousins who live this routine admit that their lives are very stressful and they think it's cool that I can get up everyday and do whatever I want.

[Winston]

Quoting one of my lady friends, there are 3 types of people: grass, tree, and cloud.

Grass types are happy when they find a nice sunny field to plant their roots.

Cloud types are more fickle, they change shape and move with the wind. They're happy when they're moving to new and exciting places.

Tree types plant their roots, but can grow tall into the sky. They can understand grass and cloud, but belong to neither.


If you find yourself in the sky as a cloud, looking down and wondering how all the grass can stand being rooted down, you should probably consider that they're looking up and wondering how you could stand being blown around by the wind.

This is a great analogy. Is this a Chinese proverb? Who came up with it?

I am definitely a cloud type then. I guess cloud types make the worst parents, while tree and grass types make the best parents.

What is the difference between a grass type and a tree type though? Which type is the majority?

I would venture to guess that cloud types are in the minority right? Society doesn't seem to be built for cloud types. They have to find their own way and make their own life. To do that, they have to learn to think outside the box.

What type are you Momopi?

[Billy]

cloud= high energy types ,mostly young guys
tree= middle energy, mostly middle aged guys
grass= low energy guys with responsibilities, older guys

When we are old we will all be grass. Or we join the Pattaya flying club

[chileanueva]

The only hell is the despair of your own mind. In your mind, you think things are worse than they actually are.

Life isn't so bad when you compare your situation to all the impoverished people of the world.

Be grateful you have good health, a home, food, water, and people who care about you. Some people have nothing in this world.

Be mindful of your blessings and don't let a sour attitude spoil your outlook of life.

[Winston]

cloud= high energy types ,mostly young guys
tree= middle energy, mostly middle aged guys
grass= low energy guys with responsibilities, older guys

When we are old we will all be grass. Or we join the Pattaya flying club

There are many older guys who are cloud types. You find them in hostels. They are some of the best and deepest conversationalists I've ever met. Their souls are rich beyond imagination. They could easily write Pulitzer prize-winning novels if they would focus and take the time and effort.

Chileanueva, that is so true and wise. Thanks for the bigger picture perspective.

[lookin4happiness]

WINSTON. Please do yourself and others a favor and read The MYTH OF FREEDOM: By Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. You can get it for 68 cents used on amazon. Really just because you live a routine does not necessarily mean you are not free. It is possible to be "free" living under a dictator or in a strict society. True freedom is found in letting go in the mind my friend. Other than that this idea of freedom is just a concept.