The Arguing

[sushiman]

Continuing to vent as I pack my bags and jump ship, this morning I wanna call out the worst symptom of the disease in the USA: the arguing!

I can't walk into an office, a coffee shop, anywhere without being flooded by the arguer people. Americans have lost intuition and the ability to understand beyond logic. They all split the whole into parts, once parts they obviously believe there are two now, they pick one half and argue it, and someone else picks the other half and argues that. Their error is believing there is a distinction. Truer and wiser to see no distinction.

Coke vs pepsi, republicans vs democrats, their small minds can never rest. It just goes on and on and it's so exhausting and foolish. True story, walked into Starbucks filled with joy and exclaimed it was going to be I'm the 80s today! A dissatisfied never-laid worker-bee actually started arguing the factual accuracy of my weather statement! LMAO can the point be missed any more than that?? All human communication is lost and only mindless fact-chatter can be heard.

People from all over the world, and foreign people here, notice this but nobody here gives it a second thought. How did it happen? And more importantly when are they going to shut the f**k up!!!

Rant over.

[MrPeabody]

They are repeating the behavior modeled for them by the talking heads on television and are conditioned like Pavlovian dogs to repeat it. In other countries, the television is much more benign, and this behavior is just never presented to them as an example.

[momopi]

Coke vs pepsi, republicans vs democrats, their small minds can never rest. It just goes on and on and it's so exhausting and foolish. True story, walked into Starbucks filled with joy and exclaimed it was going to be I'm the 80s today! A dissatisfied never-laid worker-bee actually started arguing the factual accuracy of my weather statement! LMAO can the point be missed any more than that?? All human communication is lost and only mindless fact-chatter can be heard.

The Socratic method of dialectic and rhetoric is supposed to be exhausting, but to argue over weather forecasts is probably nonproductive when you're not compensated for your time and efforts.

Why Coke vs. Pepsi and Republican vs. Democrats? Because that is the product of Western Civilization. Ancient Greeks gave us the 3 arts of discourse: dialectic, rhetoric, and grammar. Rhetoric, as the art of persuasion and public speaking, is an integral part in the development of democratic & civic values. It's why you have the right to challenge someone's ideas in public, and persuade people with your ideas today. Telling someone to shut up because you don't like what you hear would be authoritarian or emotional response.

Foolish, is using rhetoric incorrectly and failing to persuade, or to argue for the sake of arguing. Facts and statistics are just compiled data, worthless without effective delivery and persuasion of the intended audience. Failing to persuade, the speaker is ranting to himself about the inaccuracy of weather forecasts. You're not required or obligated to participate in such rants.

They are repeating the behavior modeled for them by the talking heads on television and are conditioned like Pavlovian dogs to repeat it. In other countries, the television is much more benign, and this behavior is just never presented to them as an example.

Except for Taiwan, I think people in other countries (that I've visited) are not as "in your face" with their politics or political agenda. I ran into a political rally in Paris but did not see Parisians hang election banners or signs on their properties. In the US people would stick election signs on their yards and bumper stickers. In Taiwan you'd find them everywhere during election time, with very confrontational debates because they actually have real opposition parties (KMT vs DPP) and not Burger Combo A or B at McDonalds. True opposition is where the two party's positions cannot be reconciled and, at best can only be forced into a compromise (i.e. Chinese Nationalism vs. Taiwanese Nationalism). Americans are kinda odd where they participate heavily in national elections where there is very little risk to changing the status quo, but neglect local elections and propositions where their votes have a much larger impact. In some ways American presidential elections are like cheer-leading events where the voters are the actual cheerleaders themselves.

[odbo]

Great topic. i could and probably should write an essay on this, but I won't. Much easier to copy and paste other peoples work

"If you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between ‘for’ and ‘against’ is the mind’s worst disease." -Jianzhi Sengcan

democrats vs republicans
dvd-R vs dvd+R
hd-dvd vs blu-ray
raiders vs 49ers
ford vs chevy
bmw vs mercedes
mcdonalds vs burger king
coke vs pepsi
verizon vs at&t
cable vs dsl
pc vs mac
gas vs electric (cars, or stoves)
dogs vs cats
atheism vs religion
spirituality vs science
uncircumcised vs circumcised
blue-collar vs white-collar

this is how americans are taught to perceive the world. it's mind control

[MrPeabody]

On Thai television, you see the king everyday blessing a white ox and exchanging food with the senior monks. The rest of the time is filled with what looks to me like badly done soap operas. It's the same formula everyday - just a different white ox and different food. The ritual is meant to demonstrate the legitimacy of the government and the overall goal of the television seems to be to produce peace of mind.

But, is American television any different? On American television you have 1) a sex scandal and 2) talking heads arguing the various distinctions between liberal/conservative or Republican/Democrat. The formula never changes. There is always a sex scandal, but the players just change - this week it is Weiner, but then there was Edwards, Clinton, Michael Jackson, and on and on to the infinite past. And the phony left/right paradigm never changes - it's always the same - just different talking heads and different issues. The ritual is meant to create emotional upset (such as anger, excitement, morbid curiosity) in the audience, so as to increase ratings and produce profits for corporations. The rest of the viewing time is filled with violence.

Thai television:

viewers: experience peace of mind
end result: legitimacy of society reinforced.

American television:
viewers: experience emotional upset.
end result: profits for corporations
further end results: increased discord in society, heart attacks, social isolation, and so forth.

[sushiman]

Really enjoying how people just plain dont argue in Seoul. Why would you? What would be the point? The focus here is on going out and having fun, laughing, being goofy, who cares about arguing facts?

Talked about it one night and a Korean who had lived in the USA was like "oh ya americans would be debating right now and making each other feel bad"...and then we continued with the fun! Great to be around people with perspective.

[thecobra2]

Yeah in Japan nobody argues either. It is so fun and relaxing hanging out with Japanese people. In comparison, I work with a couple of Brits and those two are constantly bickering. Makes everyone in the office uncomfortable. That is one of my biggest pet peeves! Arguing for the sake of it!

[Winston]

obdo, dude, your clip is from the Zeitgeist Movie. I thought you were against that movement? You can't deny that the film has a lot of truth in it pertaining to conspiracies and mind control, even if you don't like the Venus Project. It is also a masterpiece documentary.

[pete98146]

It is a great topic. I actually see this happening more with the "ME" generation. When my parents raised me, they did a good job of instilling the theory of RESPECT. Respect your neighbor, respect your opponent, respect your elders etc.

Fast forward to today and this mode of thinking is gone. Everybody is taught that they are the best and their point of view is most important. Kids, often times raised by single mothers, have never been taught how to respect others. It's all about ME ME ME ME. Spoiled brats turn into spoiled adults.

I really respect the Asian countries because they do a much better job at preaching this point. Respect and their views on "saving face" lead to much less arguments.

[E_Irizarry]

Saving face in the use not only means less arguments, but it also means that it's a guise.

A lot of Americans (and Canadians) lovvvvvvvvvvvve to be "polite"/"save face"; the moment you walk away, to the point of being 10 to 15 ft, then you hear a hyena snicker and/or a semi-inaudible snide-ass remark.

Conclusion: They know that YOU KNOW that they are talking about you; just don't want you to make it audible so that you cannot hear what they say. Here's the kicker: if you were to go back and contest them by asking what have they JUST SAID, then you're asking for a confrontation and/or another pissing match.

[odbo]

obdo, dude, your clip is from the Zeitgeist Movie. I thought you were against that movement? You can't deny that the film has a lot of truth in it pertaining to conspiracies and mind control, even if you don't like the Venus Project. It is also a masterpiece documentary.

It's a pile of shit "documentary" with a cock-sucker of a narrator but ya whatever you say Winston..
And I was waiting for someone to call me out for posting it Good catch

[Free]

Re: original post,
One theory, can be quite simple - there are a lot of empty hearts and souls, a lack of love if you will, and people need to feel wanted, important, etc., some can go at it in good ways, others, negative ways. I see this arguing element, amongst many other approaches, as basically a form of just simply feeling some sort of importance, dig that deeper to a form of connecting, dig even deeper, too - seeking love.
Although it seems like a grand complicated mess throughout the world, it really ironically can be simple, less love, more disconnection from all things crucial, less following to a higher call. Too many people just falling by the way side, so it's only expected these symptoms of the underlining real causes.
Of course, there are all the other factors too. Like the onslaught by the bad people out there too.

[Adama]

I think you're each correct. There is no love in the hearts of people today. They aren't taught respect for others, only that their opinions matter the most. And the media sets a horrible example with many TV shows.

For those people who have no love in their hearts, it also means they have no love for themselves, and therefore are incapable of showing love or respect for others. The anger, rage and argumentativeness are just symptoms of self hate. That's what you get in cultures like ours.

There's no reason to even have a conversation with most Americans beyond minutia, because you know, the more information they find out about you, the more they'll construe things negatively so they can find something to argue over. Then they can try to color you as the idiot/asshole/loser for being what you are or believing what you believe, while they're the enlightened, strong one.

It's the easiest and weakest ego booster in the book: Put others down, make yourself look better in comparison. But in order for people to stoop to that, on some level they must feel absolute worthlessness.

[Schutzengel]

It is also a masterpiece documentary.

It really is. I think that the goals of The Zeitgeist Movement are the ideal way to live in the world.

[Iawesome60]

Continuing to vent as I pack my bags and jump ship, this morning I wanna call out the worst symptom of the disease in the USA: the arguing!

I can't walk into an office, a coffee shop, anywhere without being flooded by the arguer people. Americans have lost intuition and the ability to understand beyond logic. They all split the whole into parts, once parts they obviously believe there are two now, they pick one half and argue it, and someone else picks the other half and argues that. Their error is believing there is a distinction. Truer and wiser to see no distinction.

Coke vs pepsi, republicans vs democrats, their small minds can never rest. It just goes on and on and it's so exhausting and foolish. True story, walked into Starbucks filled with joy and exclaimed it was going to be I'm the 80s today! A dissatisfied never-laid worker-bee actually started arguing the factual accuracy of my weather statement! LMAO can the point be missed any more than that?? All human communication is lost and only mindless fact-chatter can be heard.

People from all over the world, and foreign people here, notice this but nobody here gives it a second thought. How did it happen? And more importantly when are they going to shut the f**k up!!!

Rant over.

Sushiman, I agree with your post. Citizens of the USA argue about an abounding amount of topics. Odbo constructed a list of topics Americans dispute on. I agree with his list. I loathe arguing on topics. I'm not an argumentative guy. I'm going to use one of odbo's topics, sports. I have a favorite NFL team, a favorite college basketball team and a favorite MLB team. They have rival teams and fans of one team argue with fans of one team or another. I loathe arguing with people on sports. An incident after the Dodgers and Giants game occurred. The Dodgers and Giants are MLB (Major League Baseball) teams and they're rivals. A Giants fan was attacked by Dodgers fans. The Giants fan was hospitalized. This is why I loathe arguing about sports with a passion. Arguing could lead to catastrophic results. No arguing!

Here's the story:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?secti ... id=8047614