I saw guys rejected and being used in town tonight!

[terminator]

I went out for dinner tonight and sat next to a table of 3 young 20-something girls. I noticed the girls dined as cheaply as possible - only having one main each and no drinks nor gave tips to the waiters.

Other nights, when I sit next to a guy and girl on a date, they have expensive drinks and entrees. This is when the man pays!

On my way home I saw a car load of guys whistling at girls on the street and the girls gave them the finger! Why do guys get rejected and used by girls and never seem to realise the girls are using them to boost their diet & self-esteem? I wanted to tell these guys about this site, but they drove off before I could say anything.

[publicduende]

I think you're connecting random dots and getting a skewed picture. Some college girls on a budget order a frugal meal. Boy tries to impress girl by buying her a decent dinner. Guys on a car catcalling girls were probably just looking for an easy laugh. Daily city street sights on a weekend night.

Yes, it might be true that some (attractive) girls use dinner dates as free meal tickets, but how many? Not sure what happens in the US, but in the UK it's kind of lame to meet a woman you barely know straight in a restaurant. The ice-breaking time is (almost) always in a pub or bar, where a couple of drinks cost less and either party has time to see whether they want to invest the following couple of hours (and hundred quid) on a dinner. As a funny if not overly pragmatic friend of mine once said, when you know you might be in for a tis-for-tat date and "cynical chick" alarm is set off, it's time to lay the cards on the table and be clear on the expected outcome of a night out, especially if expensive. I replied I knew where he was coming from, yet I wouldn't even begin to date a woman knowing that her sexual favours are just part of a transaction against your wallet wide open for the night. To me, a date is either an attempt to some sort of physical, or intellectual (or both) connection, or I'd rather spend my money on an escort.

[AmericanInMexico]

I think you're connecting random dots and getting a skewed picture. Some college girls on a budget order a frugal meal. Boy tries to impress girl by buying her a decent dinner. Guys on a car catcalling girls were probably just looking for an easy laugh. Daily city street sights on a weekend night.

Yes, it might be true that some (attractive) girls use dinner dates as free meal tickets, but how many? Not sure what happens in the US, but in the UK it's kind of lame to meet a woman you barely know straight in a restaurant. The ice-breaking time is (almost) always in a pub or bar, where a couple of drinks cost less and either party has time to see whether they want to invest the following couple of hours (and hundred quid) on a dinner. As a funny if not overly pragmatic friend of mine once said, when you know you might be in for a tis-for-tat date and "cynical chick" alarm is set off, it's time to lay the cards on the table and be clear on the expected outcome of a night out, especially if expensive. I replied I knew where he was coming from, yet I wouldn't even begin to date a woman knowing that her sexual favours are just part of a transaction against your wallet wide open for the night. To me, a date is either an attempt to some sort of physical, or intellectual (or both) connection, or I'd rather spend my money on an escort.

Having lived in both countries (the US and the UK) I have noticed that Americans are far more about transactions. Just get right down to the cold, hard business. American women expect a man to spend lots of money on her from the get-go; back when I still tried to date American women, they would look at me like an idiot whenever I would suggest doing something that cost little to no money like playing a board game. American women cannot comprehend the idea of a "date" being something that does not involve going out and spending lots of money.

Bars in the US are not like British pubs at all. Due to our insane alcohol laws where people can't drink until they're 21, Americans grow up with this idea that alcohol is something that must ALWAYS lead to drunkenness. Americans cannot comprehend the concept of only one drink in order to make the night out more fun; to Americans, drinking IS the night out.

So in conclusion, in the United States a date MUST include going out somewhere expensive. The country is laid out so that you must drive to get anywhere and as a result everything is so much more expensive in the United States since business are required to own a large building. Street vendors are almost non-existent in the United States, even in major cities.

[publicduende]

I think you're connecting random dots and getting a skewed picture. Some college girls on a budget order a frugal meal. Boy tries to impress girl by buying her a decent dinner. Guys on a car catcalling girls were probably just looking for an easy laugh. Daily city street sights on a weekend night.

Yes, it might be true that some (attractive) girls use dinner dates as free meal tickets, but how many? Not sure what happens in the US, but in the UK it's kind of lame to meet a woman you barely know straight in a restaurant. The ice-breaking time is (almost) always in a pub or bar, where a couple of drinks cost less and either party has time to see whether they want to invest the following couple of hours (and hundred quid) on a dinner. As a funny if not overly pragmatic friend of mine once said, when you know you might be in for a tis-for-tat date and "cynical chick" alarm is set off, it's time to lay the cards on the table and be clear on the expected outcome of a night out, especially if expensive. I replied I knew where he was coming from, yet I wouldn't even begin to date a woman knowing that her sexual favours are just part of a transaction against your wallet wide open for the night. To me, a date is either an attempt to some sort of physical, or intellectual (or both) connection, or I'd rather spend my money on an escort.

Having lived in both countries (the US and the UK) I have noticed that Americans are far more about transactions. Just get right down to the cold, hard business. American women expect a man to spend lots of money on her from the get-go; back when I still tried to date American women, they would look at me like an idiot whenever I would suggest doing something that cost little to no money like playing a board game. American women cannot comprehend the idea of a "date" being something that does not involve going out and spending lots of money.

Bars in the US are not like British pubs at all. Due to our insane alcohol laws where people can't drink until they're 21, Americans grow up with this idea that alcohol is something that must ALWAYS lead to drunkenness. Americans cannot comprehend the concept of only one drink in order to make the night out more fun; to Americans, drinking IS the night out.

So in conclusion, in the United States a date MUST include going out somewhere expensive. The country is laid out so that you must drive to get anywhere and as a result everything is so much more expensive in the United States since business are required to own a large building. Street vendors are almost non-existent in the United States, even in major cities.

Thanks for the interesting comparison. No, I just can't force myself to date somebody without exploring matters of "connectivity" first. I can't remember a single date whose smile I didn't catch, whose hand I didn't hold, whose hair I didn't caress, before taking her for dinner, or something more serious. This is why my ideal setting to meet and flirt with girls has always been small bars with not so loud music and house parties, where the company is picked from a rather homogeneous social circle (undergrad or postgraduate departments, some young professionals etc.), the beers and cocktails are provided and non-trivial conversations can flow free without sexual tension and the silly urge, whether due to peer pressure or self pride, to end the evening with a pair of tits in your beds.

This is probably a somewhat major difference between US and UK, and it's even more evident in continental Europe where I come from. Unless you are so desperate to see a girl in a little black dress with pale foundation, glossy lipstick and high heels, you can meet perfectly great people, males and females alike, in friend's houses and get to know them for who they really are. Vice-versa, girls who will only agree to meet somebody in a £200 a meal restaurant, aren't even worth a phone call, in my book. That kind of date can come later, and come it did on a few occasions. And what that happen, you won't believe how pleasant, how breathtaking can be, to see the same cute girl you shared red wine and bread and cheese at a common friend's flat, talking about poetry or the origins of socialism, showing up looking like an actress and with a big smile that's just for you. Believe me, she can open much more than your wallet...

[gsjackson]

[quote="AmericanInMexico"Having lived in both countries (the US and the UK) I have noticed that Americans are far more about transactions. Just get right down to the cold, hard business. American women expect a man to spend lots of money on her from the get-go; back when I still tried to date American women, they would look at me like an idiot whenever I would suggest doing something that cost little to no money like playing a board game. American women cannot comprehend the idea of a "date" being something that does not involve going out and spending lots of money.

Bars in the US are not like British pubs at all. Due to our insane alcohol laws where people can't drink until they're 21, Americans grow up with this idea that alcohol is something that must ALWAYS lead to drunkenness. Americans cannot comprehend the concept of only one drink in order to make the night out more fun; to Americans, drinking IS the night out.

So in conclusion, in the United States a date MUST include going out somewhere expensive. The country is laid out so that you must drive to get anywhere and as a result everything is so much more expensive in the United States since business are required to own a large building. Street vendors are almost non-existent in the United States, even in major cities.[/quote]

There's an inherent contradiction in what you're saying that has made America's wretched opportunities for getting to know people even worse. Yes, everything is laid out in the U.S. so that you have to drive if you go out. You can't even catch a bus after 9 p.m. in most places. And yes, Americans' idea of a night out is getting hammered, arriving quickly at a place of oblivion where they don't have to reveal any of their lame personalities.

Now, if you've spent much time in the U.S. in recent years you may have noticed that the gendarmes are out in full force any time there might be drunk drivers out and about. Get convicted of DUI and the penalties just start with losing your license for six months and having your insurance premiums go through the roof. The result has been what could clearly be expected. People have stopped going out to drink. Bars are closing right and left. Unlike other countries, bars in the U.S. haven't been a good place for meeting people you'd want to know the next morning for about thirty years now, because they have been populated mostly by low-lifes. But now even that avenue is gone. You can just stay home and hook yourself up to a machine, not a woman. And that's the only option you have in this culture that seems almost perfectly designed to thwart human happiness.

[publicduende]

Having lived in both countries (the US and the UK) I have noticed that Americans are far more about transactions. Just get right down to the cold, hard business. American women expect a man to spend lots of money on her from the get-go; back when I still tried to date American women, they would look at me like an idiot whenever I would suggest doing something that cost little to no money like playing a board game. American women cannot comprehend the idea of a "date" being something that does not involve going out and spending lots of money.

Bars in the US are not like British pubs at all. Due to our insane alcohol laws where people can't drink until they're 21, Americans grow up with this idea that alcohol is something that must ALWAYS lead to drunkenness. Americans cannot comprehend the concept of only one drink in order to make the night out more fun; to Americans, drinking IS the night out.

So in conclusion, in the United States a date MUST include going out somewhere expensive. The country is laid out so that you must drive to get anywhere and as a result everything is so much more expensive in the United States since business are required to own a large building. Street vendors are almost non-existent in the United States, even in major cities.

There's an inherent contradiction in what you're saying that has made America's wretched opportunities for getting to know people even worse. Yes, everything is laid out in the U.S. so that you have to drive if you go out. You can't even catch a bus after 9 p.m. in most places. And yes, Americans' idea of a night out is getting hammered, arriving quickly at a place of oblivion where they don't have to reveal any of their lame personalities.

Now, if you've spent much time in the U.S. in recent years you may have noticed that the gendarmes are out in full force any time there might be drunk drivers out and about. Get convicted of DUI and the penalties just start with losing your license for six months and having your insurance premiums go through the roof. The result has been what could clearly be expected. People have stopped going out to drink. Bars are closing right and left. Unlike other countries, bars in the U.S. haven't been a good place for meeting people you'd want to know the next morning for about thirty years now, because they have been populated mostly by low-lifes. But now even that avenue is gone. You can just stay home and hook yourself up to a machine, not a woman. And that's the only option you have in this culture that seems almost perfectly designed to thwart human happiness.

There is nothing wrong with getting tipsy on a good couple of bottle of red wine. The reason why we Italians (and French, and Spaniards) can enjoy a night out without getting hammered out of our skulls is quite simple: good and cheap food. Try go to a Madrid bar and, together with the compulsory bottle of Rioja, they will serve you a plateful of bite-size paninis (bocadillos). In Italy, people don't even think of drinking more than a couple of pints without having a large filled panino, pizza slices or some bread and a cheese/ham selection. It's amazing how much more alcohol a human body can absorb without feeling sick with a reasonable amount of food in your stomach. This applies to girls, too. When women like to eat good food without too much drama about breaking their latest diet, it's not just their stomach that benefit, it's their mood and the date itself.

[Jester]

Good points by all here.

Terminator, re your OP, no problem if you're just venting, I have to agree with PublicDuende here. I think you are letting the abusive environment get to you too much. I wouldn't comment except that your POV reminded me of a young man who is close to me, who sees the same problems we all see, but is too sesntitive about things, and takes everything too personally. I'm not saying you do this habitually, but HE does, and I have tried to tell him so.

Sure, like all of us, you need to look elsewhere, outside the AngloSphere. But while here, try to look for good things. It's a good habit to form. What you look for, you find.

We're all going to make it.

[AmericanInMexico]

Thanks for the interesting comparison. No, I just can't force myself to date somebody without exploring matters of "connectivity" first. I can't remember a single date whose smile I didn't catch, whose hand I didn't hold, whose hair I didn't caress, before taking her for dinner, or something more serious. This is why my ideal setting to meet and flirt with girls has always been small bars with not so loud music and house parties, where the company is picked from a rather homogeneous social circle (undergrad or postgraduate departments, some young professionals etc.), the beers and cocktails are provided and non-trivial conversations can flow free without sexual tension and the silly urge, whether due to peer pressure or self pride, to end the evening with a pair of breasts in your beds.

This is probably a somewhat major difference between US and UK, and it's even more evident in continental Europe where I come from. Unless you are so desperate to see a girl in a little black dress with pale foundation, glossy lipstick and high heels, you can meet perfectly great people, males and females alike, in friend's houses and get to know them for who they really are. Vice-versa, girls who will only agree to meet somebody in a £200 a meal restaurant, aren't even worth a phone call, in my book. That kind of date can come later, and come it did on a few occasions. And what that happen, you won't believe how pleasant, how breathtaking can be, to see the same cute girl you shared red wine and bread and cheese at a common friend's flat, talking about poetry or the origins of socialism, showing up looking like an actress and with a big smile that's just for you. Believe me, she can open much more than your wallet...

Your entire post was good but the part I bolded to me was the key. In the United States, that is the only way to meet women; first you have to have a friend introduce you to her (since American women are not open to being met any other way) and then you are expected to take her out somewhere nice before you even know if she's worth it, and if you protest then people say stuff like "be a gentleman". In other words, in the United States men are expected to invest a lot of time and money into a woman who 90% of the time turns out to be total garbage.

It isn't like that here in Mexico where you can meet ten women a night very easily (since women here are open to meeting new people) and then your first "date" consists of going to the park to hang out with her and her friends or even going to her house to meet her family (whereupon they quickly adopt you as one of their own and not just "our daughter's boyfriend"). I can honestly say that in the United States I have seen the inside of about 100 different houses whereas in Mexico I have seen the insides of about 10,000. The reason? Once again, the United States is laid out so people are isolated from each other, unlike in Mexico where towns and cities really are like little communes in a way (and that's communes, not communism, there's a distinct difference).

Is it similar to that in Italy? I've been to Italy once in my life back when I was 11 but have spent a lot of time in mediterranean France with my French relatives. People can say the French are rude or whatever but I'd much rather live in France than in the United States.

[AmericanInMexico]

Having lived in both countries (the US and the UK) I have noticed that Americans are far more about transactions. Just get right down to the cold, hard business. American women expect a man to spend lots of money on her from the get-go; back when I still tried to date American women, they would look at me like an idiot whenever I would suggest doing something that cost little to no money like playing a board game. American women cannot comprehend the idea of a "date" being something that does not involve going out and spending lots of money.

Bars in the US are not like British pubs at all. Due to our insane alcohol laws where people can't drink until they're 21, Americans grow up with this idea that alcohol is something that must ALWAYS lead to drunkenness. Americans cannot comprehend the concept of only one drink in order to make the night out more fun; to Americans, drinking IS the night out.

So in conclusion, in the United States a date MUST include going out somewhere expensive. The country is laid out so that you must drive to get anywhere and as a result everything is so much more expensive in the United States since business are required to own a large building. Street vendors are almost non-existent in the United States, even in major cities.

There's an inherent contradiction in what you're saying that has made America's wretched opportunities for getting to know people even worse. Yes, everything is laid out in the U.S. so that you have to drive if you go out. You can't even catch a bus after 9 p.m. in most places. And yes, Americans' idea of a night out is getting hammered, arriving quickly at a place of oblivion where they don't have to reveal any of their lame personalities.

Now, if you've spent much time in the U.S. in recent years you may have noticed that the gendarmes are out in full force any time there might be drunk drivers out and about. Get convicted of DUI and the penalties just start with losing your license for six months and having your insurance premiums go through the roof. The result has been what could clearly be expected. People have stopped going out to drink. Bars are closing right and left. Unlike other countries, bars in the U.S. haven't been a good place for meeting people you'd want to know the next morning for about thirty years now, because they have been populated mostly by low-lifes. But now even that avenue is gone. You can just stay home and hook yourself up to a machine, not a woman. And that's the only option you have in this culture that seems almost perfectly designed to thwart human happiness.

I go back to the United States occasionally and have noticed exactly what you have described. I have been pulled over randomly many times lately because as the police put it "we're looking for someone who did something and so we are just making sure you aren't the individual in question". They never tell me what the person did. Driving at night in the United States has become far more of a hassle than it's worth.

I no longer know how to connect with Americans anymore. Even if I wanted to make friends with Americans, I no longer know how. Nightlife has become a thing of the past, as you described above. Kids no longer play outside anymore since there is nowhere for them to play; I feel bad for kids of today since all they can do is stay indoors and play video games. My kids will not be raised in the United States.

[NorthAmericanguy]

I went out for dinner tonight and sat next to a table of 3 young 20-something girls. I noticed the girls dined as cheaply as possible - only having one main each and no drinks nor gave tips to the waiters.

Other nights, when I sit next to a guy and girl on a date, they have expensive drinks and entrees. This is when the man pays!

OMG!! I saw this same scenario pay out over and over when with my X-GF and her friends. When my X girlfriend would go out with her friends, like you said, they would order the least amount of food and be very frugal with their own money. Even the tip they were so anal about it and not try to give anything more then what was required.

[Jester]

I no longer know how to connect with Americans anymore. Even if I wanted to make friends with Americans, I no longer know how. Nightlife has become a thing of the past, as you described above. Kids no longer play outside anymore since there is nowhere for them to play; I feel bad for kids of today since all they can do is stay indoors and play video games. My kids will not be raised in the United States.

Exodus.

[AmericanInMexico]

I no longer know how to connect with Americans anymore. Even if I wanted to make friends with Americans, I no longer know how. Nightlife has become a thing of the past, as you described above. Kids no longer play outside anymore since there is nowhere for them to play; I feel bad for kids of today since all they can do is stay indoors and play video games. My kids will not be raised in the United States.

Exodus.

Definitely! And I may be able to get residency very soon since the Ford plant here in Mexico is interested in hiring me since I speak all three NAFTA languages fluently. It will be so nice to have actual residency in Mexico and not have to live off a tourist visa that costs me about 30 dollars every six months to renew and which can only be renewed at the border.

[terminator]

I think you're connecting random dots and getting a skewed picture. Some college girls on a budget order a frugal meal. Boy tries to impress girl by buying her a decent dinner. Guys on a car catcalling girls were probably just looking for an easy laugh. Daily city street sights on a weekend night.

Yes, it might be true that some (attractive) girls use dinner dates as free meal tickets, but how many? Not sure what happens in the US, but in the UK it's kind of lame to meet a woman you barely know straight in a restaurant. The ice-breaking time is (almost) always in a pub or bar, where a couple of drinks cost less and either party has time to see whether they want to invest the following couple of hours (and hundred quid) on a dinner. As a funny if not overly pragmatic friend of mine once said, when you know you might be in for a tis-for-tat date and "cynical chick" alarm is set off, it's time to lay the cards on the table and be clear on the expected outcome of a night out, especially if expensive. I replied I knew where he was coming from, yet I wouldn't even begin to date a woman knowing that her sexual favours are just part of a transaction against your wallet wide open for the night. To me, a date is either an attempt to some sort of physical, or intellectual (or both) connection, or I'd rather spend my money on an escort.

It's really not possible that I'm connecting random dots because I've noticed this time and time again - e.g. why do AW act like they "don't need a man" 100% of the time? It's because most girls only want to use average guys and feel they are "worth" someone like David Beckham. Also, every time I see guys show interest in any girl, she simply rejects him. Girls are real tight-wads when they pay, e.g. my mother would tell me off if I made a snack when I was a teenager,.

[AmericanInMexico]

I think you're connecting random dots and getting a skewed picture. Some college girls on a budget order a frugal meal. Boy tries to impress girl by buying her a decent dinner. Guys on a car catcalling girls were probably just looking for an easy laugh. Daily city street sights on a weekend night.

Yes, it might be true that some (attractive) girls use dinner dates as free meal tickets, but how many? Not sure what happens in the US, but in the UK it's kind of lame to meet a woman you barely know straight in a restaurant. The ice-breaking time is (almost) always in a pub or bar, where a couple of drinks cost less and either party has time to see whether they want to invest the following couple of hours (and hundred quid) on a dinner. As a funny if not overly pragmatic friend of mine once said, when you know you might be in for a tis-for-tat date and "cynical chick" alarm is set off, it's time to lay the cards on the table and be clear on the expected outcome of a night out, especially if expensive. I replied I knew where he was coming from, yet I wouldn't even begin to date a woman knowing that her sexual favours are just part of a transaction against your wallet wide open for the night. To me, a date is either an attempt to some sort of physical, or intellectual (or both) connection, or I'd rather spend my money on an escort.

It's really not possible that I'm connecting random dots because I've noticed this time and time again - e.g. why do AW act like they "don't need a man" 100% of the time? It's because most girls only want to use average guys and feel they are "worth" someone like David Beckham. Also, every time I see guys show interest in any girl, she simply rejects him. Girls are real tight-wads when they pay, e.g. my mother would tell me off if I made a snack when I was a teenager,.

That's part of why I don't understand why many American women even have jobs if it's the man's responsibility to buy her whatever she wants without protesting. American women are insane; despite being poorer, Mexican women have bought me far more than American women ever did and I say that at risk of sounding like a gold digger myself.

On the contrary, I appreciate every now and then being surprised with something simple like a chocolate bar, something that lets me know she actually cares about me. American women I've dated were incapable of even buying me something small every now and then; it was always "you're the man so be a gentleman and buy me whatever I ask for". My Mexican fiancee, on the other hand, surprised me just a few weeks ago with a CD from one of my favorite bands, and I know that was a big deal for her since on her wages a CD is almost an entire day's pay. The thought of an American woman buying men anything no matter how small is almost laughable since it rarely happens.

[jamesbond]

In the United States, that is the only way to meet women; first you have to have a friend introduce you to her (since American women are not open to being met any other way).

It isn't like that here in Mexico where you can meet ten women a night very easily (since women here are open to meeting new people).

This is so true! In America, the only way to meet women is through your friends. Women in the US are not open to meeting guys in random places like bookstores and grocery stores. You need to be introduced to a woman by a mutal friend the two of you know.

I like what you say about Mexico, it sounds like you can easily meet women there. Women in Mexico sound like they are very open to meeting guys in public places like bookstores, grocery stores, etc.

I have noticed that mexican women here in the US tend to be very friendly and open. I can only imagine how friendly and open they are in Mexico.