I'm tired of all this superficiality based on looks

[Voice of Reason]

Thanks for all the responses so far, it has been thought provoking. Sorry I can't reply to everyone individually.

All this talk about perfect symmetry and perfect skin tone and perfect breasts is nothing but westernised Darwinian codswallop. Odbo said a good point about people here wanting to run a "eugenics program." It seems people here are searching for the perfect specimen. Just my opinion…but this puts you on the same level as feminized western women, except that they have more choke in western society, and you have more choice in others.

Anyway, just remember that this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong, or misinformed. Or maybe we simply just disagree. I will go for hot women myself, but I will not pass up a traditional plain looking women if her ATTITUDE is better.

Actually its not, there is scientific proof. I am not looking for perfect because nobody is. Lots of people like to give credit to people they don't know personally. I don't take those things seriously and there's no such thing as a "Traditional Plain Looking Woman" Some women put on little makeup and look great, other women know how to correctly apply makeup so you don't notice at all. There plenty of before and after pictures of what happens when you put makeup on a woman how you can take her from plain looking to exotic.

As I said, its only fat people that complain about the world being built around people that are in-shape to average size. Only so-so to ugly people complain about eugenics programs designed to eliminate less than perfect people, no such thing exist other than your own head.

First - I am going to SEA.

Second - See my comment above.

[Voice of Reason]

Most of the guys on this forum are not the type i think the majority women would be getting they're panties soaking wet over and beating down your doors to get with you guys.But you guys can get a decent looking women abroad that will treat you right but the right women for you may not be a super model.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Bane]

Voice of Reason,

Thank you for starting this thread. I completely agree with you. It's funny when men complain that women are shallow, they whine and moan, hoot and holler about how unfair the dating scene is, how women don't give them a chance, etc. But, when you turn those superficial beliefs back on them, they suddenly start singing a different tune. "It's a shallow world we're living in. There's nothing wrong with being shallow and looking for beauty. It's human nature, brah!"

[samurai_panda]

First impressions will always be based on looks because that's the first thing people can see.

People can't see your mind or heart.

It isn't fair; but it's the brutal reality we live in.

[stillcode]

This is a good topic.

I say that the main reason why you should date foreign is because of personality! The feminine girls that I met abroad were some of the most kind and caring people I have ever met. It's not just limited to one gender, it's got to do with the difference between western culture and foreign cultures. Although looks are important, nothing can beat good company, good friendships, good dates and good relationships. It's incredibly refreshing to be around girls who are so amiable, girly, honest and demure.

However, I also believe in the saying "Your appearance is a reflection of your heart." If you don't take care of your appearance or your health, then it is very likely you also don't take care of other aspects of your life. Maintaining a healthy body weight, dressing up for going out and other things we do to primp ourselves takes effort and time. It shows that you have discipline and perhaps that you are a responsible person as well. If you make a conscious effort to take care of your appearance, then you probably also make a conscious effort to take care of your finances, your family, your career, and so forth.

The good personalities of many foreigners is the reason why you should visit and date outside of the western world. That foreigners are generally in better shape and possibly more physically attractive is just cream on the top.

[ethan_sg]

Looks matter everywhere you go, and more so for women than for men, because men are extremely visual creatures, it's in our DNA.

I don't know about others in this forum but my looks have tended to work in my favor rather than against it in terms of getting women locally, so I'm not complaining in that respect.

But men here can feel entitled to do both the following
(1) go abroad to look for better looking women (far too many american women are obese/overweight/plump, there's such a bad selection in America, just make sure you're not overweight yourself). In Asia, 80%-90% of women are slim and that just means that immediately there are so many more eligible prospective girlfriends for you.

(2)go abroad to look for women with better personalities and not infected by feminism (I don't need to elaborate on this)

Both are reasons to go abroad.

So I don't think it's only a matter of looks but looks certainly matter as well, both your own looks and the looks of your prospective partner. After all if you're a man and you're stuck with a woman you're not physically attracted to, what are you gonna do, live a life of sexual dissatisfaction? That's not fun, look at Winston's complaints about his life in Taiwan.

[All_That_Is_Man]

Voice of Reason,

Thank you for starting this thread. I completely agree with you. It's funny when men complain that women are shallow, they whine and moan, hoot and holler about how unfair the dating scene is, how women don't give them a chance, etc. But, when you turn those superficial beliefs back on them, they suddenly start singing a different tune. "It's a shallow world we're living in. There's nothing wrong with being shallow and looking for beauty. It's human nature, brah!"

I can't believe I'm reading something like this from someone who isn't a man-hating female!

The big difference between men being superficial and women being superficial is that women are still f***ing whomever they want and whenever they want on a regular basis, even when they have not found their superficial, ideal "Prince Charming"; yet men who haven't found their "superficial" ideal mate yet are not getting any play, or either have to lower their standards tremendously and even pay money just for minimal action. Yep, women are really victims there. Shame on men for having standards.

[eurobrat]

...

[Banano]

I dont think it is superficial to want someone with good looks, it is normal and natural. human nature we like it or not. Think abt future kids, do you want them to be ugly or as beautiful as possible?

[C.J.]

Some people are born with good looks, some aren't. People will or will not judge you based on this. It's human nature!

But me personally, I'm looking for a woman who knows how to talk to me, looks be damned. If you know how to turn me on with your words, I'm writing your number down! If you don't talk about anything or you're boring as f**k, I don't bother with you. I don't want an intelligent partner though, because most people are beneath me in intelligence;if I wanted someone smart to massage my ego, I'd ask a college professor to give me a happy ending while lecturing me on quantum physics...actually, I would LOVE to do that someday!

I believe I've gone past the "gotta find a model" phase of my life, and now I'm looking for a woman who satisfies my agenda. Of course, if a hot bitch with the above personality fell into my lap, I'd be an idiot not to snatch her up!

[Bane]

Voice of Reason,

Thank you for starting this thread. I completely agree with you. It's funny when men complain that women are shallow, they whine and moan, hoot and holler about how unfair the dating scene is, how women don't give them a chance, etc. But, when you turn those superficial beliefs back on them, they suddenly start singing a different tune. "It's a shallow world we're living in. There's nothing wrong with being shallow and looking for beauty. It's human nature, brah!"

I can't believe I'm reading something like this from someone who isn't a man-hating female!

The big difference between men being superficial and women being superficial is that women are still f***ing whomever they want and whenever they want on a regular basis, even when they have not found their superficial, ideal "Prince Charming"; yet men who haven't found their "superficial" ideal mate yet are not getting any play, or either have to lower their standards tremendously and even pay money just for minimal action. Yep, women are really victims there. Shame on men for having standards.

Perhaps I should have put a disclaimer on my previous post.

I am in no way defending American women's trashy behavior in regards to their selection of men, nor do I feel that they are "victims" in any way. My feelings on this are a reflection of the feelings of pretty much everybody here. There is no need to delve further into it.

I was merely pointing out that when an American man whines and moans about how he can't get women because they are stereotyping him out based on looks, he ends up complaining that the dating scene is unfair, that he deserves a chance because of his "personality" etc. Then that same man goes out and continues the exact same process to potential female companions. Well, that guy is a hypocrite, simple as. This man, in effect, forfeits his right to bitch and moan, and is just going to have to suck it up if he insists on competing with better men for the 9's and 10's of the world.

Now, on the other hand, gentlemen who are not looks obsessed, and will give someone who is not an 8 or above a chance, yet still get shit on by even the 5's and 6's because the are not "good looking" enough, THESE guys have a legitimate beef in my book. This little phenomenon seems to be more and more common in the US these days, where obese, scarred, even physically handicapped women seem to think they can have their pick of whomever they want, and feel that they are God's gift to the opposite sex. A slightly overweight woman may be classified as a "6" by most men, but if her personality is like the one mentioned above, this can ultimately bring her down to a 4, or even 3. Personality and character do matter.

[Iawesome60]

I am sick and tired of the superficial importance placed on looks by people in this forum, when it comes to foreign women. It seems that if a foreign woman isn't what you call a "9", you won't even bother with her.

Does this not make you as bad as Western women? Is superficiality not the reason why people on this forum prefer non-westernised women?

Just because a foreign woman is a "9" does not automatically mean she will make you happy. Give me a pleasant plain looking foreign woman, who has a warm heart and is sharing and caring any day - she will be 100X better than a western female with a bad attitude, regardless of racial background.

I understand if the woman is fat and butt-ugly or something like that. But for people on this forum to reject a plainer looking woman because she isn't a "9" is akin to a western woman rejecting a man because he isn't six foot tall with big biceps.

I am going to put my two cents into this topic.

First and foremost, I am willing to date a plain-looking women if I am physically and spiritually attracted to her. In my opinion, plain-looking women can be a 7.5 in the looks department. I am not picky on women. Most women are 7's and up. There are instances when a woman is not attractive physically and/or spiritually.

There are women that men find physically attractive. However, these same women are physically unattractive to other men. What makes women physically unattractive? It could be their eyes, their body (too fat, too skinny, etc), their hair, their teeth, their breath, and/or other things.

Here comes the good parts: her personality traits. I do not care what rating the woman is in the looks department. If she has ugly personality traits that will jeopardize the relationship, she is getting the X or a pink slip. What personality traits make a woman unattractive? Being crazy, being irrational, being a user (a golddigger), and other traits.

I do not know if it makes us as bad as western women. Western women are difficult because of their views on men. Yes, many men are on the forum because of the superficial behavior of western women.

In conclusion, I am very receptive to the idea of dating a plain-looking woman under these circumstances: if I am attracted to her physically and spiritually. If we get everything together and we show women that we are boyfriend/husband material, we can score women on any rating scale only if their intentions are genuine. If men want the 8, 9, and 10, they can pursue. I am aiming for the 7.5's, 8's, 9's, and 10. Most women are in the 7's and up.

[designer]

I do not know what to say. I knew a european airline hostess who had a very fit body but her face was quite plain or below average. However she was not kind at all and extremely superficial. She felt that because of her (anorexic) body she could demand and do whatever she pleased without respect or compassion towards others. She believed that she was a God and that "all men" wanted her. She dressed provocatively often and seemed to love the attention. But the bottomline was that she was horrible as a person. She had zero self confidence, yet she spurted out loads of American women type nonsense. Like "i dont need a man", I'm independent, I'm a strong women, no man will hurt me again, etc." Much of her male hatred was directed at me despite her ex bf mistreating her. She saw all proper men as bad and low stupid 'Chav'/Swagger slick guys as cool. These guys she described were often uneducated, ego driven, materialistic and liars. yet they were perfect. They had the 'Look' she liked. Hip hop clothes, slick style and attitude. Classic thug 'nigguh' type behaivor. However I am nothing like that and as a result I was a nothing and treated as such. I have known some women and from my experience the so called 9's and 10's are pretty low. Most of those women have severe mental issues. Some I have known are very sick people and are completing lacking in kindness and love. I have known lots of so called 9's and 10's, tall linky girls who aspire to look like models. But all of them were terrible people. A real woman is one who will be there for you through thick and thin. A normal woman is a real woman. A woman who does not use her 'body' or title, ie airline hostess/model or whatever as a badge to proclaim that she is beautiful or some sort of image of perfection. These people are rotten. I cant count the times a so called 'hot' girl in an instant changed and became ugly from the inside out. They spit venom at the poor, the weak and the homeless. Hate on men out of jealousy or disrespect guys who are genuine and honest. I am tired of those kinds of women. I knew a Romanian woman who was low. She too felt that her 'looks' made her superior and desirable to men. She felt that it was okay to treat guys any kind of way. To use them and to manipulate them. This kind of behavior is quite common and i have seen a lot of it in the east also. There is no beautiful princess. There are only good people and bad people. A woman's heart is what matters guys. Like Mr. Spock once said, "looks are transitory". The heart guys is all that matters. The question should always be, Will this woman stand by me through everything good and bad. Is she a Good woman? I agree that western women aren't shit but some women in europe and asia aren't shit either. No matter if its the post soviet culture of corruption or east asian corporate materialism. Its all the same story. mental and emotional corruption. You gotta look at the woman's heart. I have seen some very pretty women in my time but most were very low people or had very serious mental and or moral issues. They were from all over, ukraine, russia, slovenia, romania, uk, usa, italy and other lands. But again it was all the same story.

Personally I like unusual looking women. "Plain" if you will, though to me they are not plain. Everyone is unique in their own way.
I once worked around the nyc fashion world and I can tell you some of these 9's and 10's that you describe. If you knew what resides behind the curtain you would be shocked. Just remember guys its all about the heart. These days I can look at a girl and tell what she is all about. If she is genuine or just another liar and flake/tease. I hate teases and liars. Thus I look for real women now, they are very hard to find. You have to go for the heart, the heart and eyes tell all. I know because I am a man who has been deceived, ignored, manipulated, harshly judged and rejected/dejected by women for over 20+ years. I am hardly some rich super guy. I am hard working and intelligent but hardly the guy that women want. So I have had lots of time on my hands to observe, learn and understand what is real and what is fantasy. A real woman is not a princess, she is a light. A hope that there are good women left in the world. Look at the heart of a woman. Looks are not as important as a honest soul.

[zboy1]

I do not know what to say. I knew a european airline hostess who had a very fit body but her face was quite plain or below average. However she was not kind at all and extremely superficial. She felt that because of her (anorexic) body she could demand and do whatever she pleased without respect or compassion towards others. She believed that she was a God and that "all men" wanted her. She dressed provocatively often and seemed to love the attention. But the bottomline was that she was horrible as a person. She had zero self confidence, yet she spurted out loads of American women type nonsense. Like "i dont need a man", I'm independent, I'm a strong women, no man will hurt me again, etc." Much of her male hatred was directed at me despite her ex bf mistreating her. She saw all proper men as bad and low stupid 'Chav'/Swagger slick guys as cool. These guys she described were often uneducated, ego driven, materialistic and liars. yet they were perfect. They had the 'Look' she liked. Hip hop clothes, slick style and attitude. Classic thug 'nigguh' type behaivor. However I am nothing like that and as a result I was a nothing and treated as such. I have known some women and from my experience the so called 9's and 10's are pretty low. Most of those women have severe mental issues. Some I have known are very sick people and are completing lacking in kindness and love. I have known lots of so called 9's and 10's, tall linky girls who aspire to look like models. But all of them were terrible people. A real woman is one who will be there for you through thick and thin. A normal woman is a real woman. A woman who does not use her 'body' or title, ie airline hostess/model or whatever as a badge to proclaim that she is beautiful or some sort of image of perfection. These people are rotten. I cant count the times a so called 'hot' girl in an instant changed and became ugly from the inside out. They spit venom at the poor, the weak and the homeless. Hate on men out of jealousy or disrespect guys who are genuine and honest. I am tired of those kinds of women. I knew a Romanian woman who was low. She too felt that her 'looks' made her superior and desirable to men. She felt that it was okay to treat guys any kind of way. To use them and to manipulate them. This kind of behavior is quite common and i have seen a lot of it in the east also. There is no beautiful princess. There are only good people and bad people. A woman's heart is what matters guys. Like Mr. Spock once said, "looks are transitory". The heart guys is all that matters. The question should always be, Will this woman stand by me through everything good and bad. Is she a Good woman? I agree that western women aren't shit but some women in europe and asia aren't shit either. No matter if its the post soviet culture of corruption or east asian corporate materialism. Its all the same story. mental and emotional corruption. You gotta look at the woman's heart. I have seen some very pretty women in my time but most were very low people or had very serious mental and or moral issues. They were from all over, ukraine, russia, slovenia, romania, uk, usa, italy and other lands. But again it was all the same story.

Personally I like unusual looking women. "Plain" if you will, though to me they are not plain. Everyone is unique in their own way.
I once worked around the nyc fashion world and I can tell you some of these 9's and 10's that you describe. If you knew what resides behind the curtain you would be shocked. Just remember guys its all about the heart. These days I can look at a girl and tell what she is all about. If she is genuine or just another liar and flake/tease. I hate teases and liars. Thus I look for real women now, they are very hard to find. You have to go for the heart, the heart and eyes tell all. I know because I am a man who has been deceived, ignored, manipulated, harshly judged and rejected/dejected by women for over 20+ years. I am hardly some rich super guy. I am hard working and intelligent but hardly the guy that women want. So I have had lots of time on my hands to observe, learn and understand what is real and what is fantasy. A real woman is not a princess, she is a light. A hope that there are good women left in the world. Look at the heart of a woman. Looks are not as important as a honest soul.

Yes, good post designer. Many attractive and beautiful people have awful hearts and are terrible to be around. What's more important is the heart of a person rather than their looks. Too many people have it the other way around, looks first, personality and heart second. That's a mistake too many people make, unfortunately.

[FREEDOM1]

Appearance matters and here is why:

Women with symmetrical faces (beauty is the presence of symmetry) with excellent skin tone and clear, white, straight teeth, are also the most healthy and fecund.

Beauty is a sign of good genes and reproductively ability, IOW.

Are we running a eugenics program here? Have you looked around this site? Most guys are in their 40s, don't want kids, and the ones that do don't seem too concerned with intelligence. I keep hearing men say the best sex they've had was with the uglier women they were with. That's probably because pretty women in our society rot from within. Erectile dysfunction and having to make out in the dark isn't really an issue when you're dealing with women in their 20s. Moreover, the most intelligent people on earth are the least fertile, and the dumbest and ugliest are the most fertile. I think that has more to do with industrialized societies and less to do with biology. Having high standards doesn't do much but ensure you won't ever be satisfied.

hey odbo - to put in it bluntly - your post is a bunch of opinionated crap, where is the scientific evidence that the dumbest and ugliest are the most fertile??, Which hole in your lower body did you pull that horseshit out from Einstein?