Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating scene

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Adama
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama »

GoingAwol wrote: If you are saying that women will "drop subtle hints" I can agree with you. However, you will never get me to believe that women make it very obvious or outright say "I like you". Women will always operate in a way that gives them plausible deniability in case they change their minds tomorrow or 10 seconds from now. Of course, I guess it just depends on what you consider a heavy hint. I think I have an example of what you might consider a heavy hint. A couple of years ago I worked with this one girl who I was very attracted to (We'll call her Amanda). Anyways, one day I was telling a guy I worked with that I liked her (We'll call him C.J) and he lied and told me they (him and her) were already dating. Obviously, this was very awkward for me and it ended any thoughts I had of asking her out. Anyways, apparently word got back to Amanda that C.J had told me they were dating and she made it a point to flag me down at work one day and ask me "Did C.J tell you we were dating?" to which I replied "Yea he mentioned that" and she responded "Well he lied, we aren't dating. we are just friends" and I simply said "Oh ok" and went back to what I was doing. In retrospect it appears she was basically saying "Hey i'm single! Ask me out dummy!" but in the moment that wasn't so obvious. In fact, maybe it's not obvious at all. Her making it a point to let me know she wasn't dating that guy could mean she just didn't want rumors spreading around the workplace that they were dating. It appears that she was dropping a heavy hint, but her actions could be interpreted several ways. The bottom line is trying to read women is usually an exercise in futility. And let's suppose you think you are getting green lights from a woman and decide to act on them. You only have a very limited time to process them and act before she loses interest and moves on. So even if you are getting "hints" you are still taking a shot in the dark if you decide to act on it. And add social anxiety and/or ASD into the mix and it becomes even more scary/risky. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
This isn't an honest culture. So no, you cannot expect an American woman to flat out say, "I like you" from the start. Besides that, it sounds desperate to make such confessions so early, and even if she felt that way, she wouldn't say it like that. But if you do have time alone, specifically alone, and she can have a conversation with you, if she is interested, she will make it clear to you that she is interested, and usually with her words. If the two of you are alone, and she's interested, she will inquire about your relationship status, she will tell you how available she is, and she may even briefly skirt around the topic of sex (and if she starts directly talking about sex, then it is almost guaranteed she's interested).

Women will say things like, "I'm about to break up with my boyfriend." Or, "My boyfriend won't talk to me," or "I haven't seen him." or whatever to signal she has broken up with her boyfriend. SHe's signally her availability, most especially when you never even asked her that question! Most times when women don't like men, they go out of their way to mention their boyfriend immediately before the guy gets any ideas in his head. So if she is denying the existence or talking about ending it with him, there you go. Some women will even talk about sex they've had with other men. Or how much other men want them, just to seem more desirable to you. These can be real or made up by the women. That's because they believe in the scarcity principle, that everyone wants what everyone else wants, increasing its value thereby.

She may also ask if you are single, have a girlfriend, what kind of women you like, etc.

Has any of this ever happened to you before? Yes, you told me above that it has happened to you. You just didnt know how to follow up on it.

Women are better at conversation and they desire to have conversation. They talk a lot.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
Adama
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama »

GoingAwol wrote: In retrospect it appears she was basically saying "Hey i'm single! Ask me out dummy!" but in the moment that wasn't so obvious.
Congratulations, bonehead. She's signalling directly her availability. You were attracted to her. She knew that. Women know it. And if she went through the trouble to MAKE DAMN SURE YOU KNEW SHE DIDNT HAVE A BOYFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well oh maybe it wasnt so obvious. No, the problem is you were not paying attention and you were in the negative funk that A WOMAN LIKE THAT WOULD NEVER WANT ME SO I AUTOMATICALLY GIVE UP AHEAD OF TIME!

Oh, did I get it right?

You still don't believe me though. You have your doubts. Women must chase the man. DID SHE NOT CHASE YOU DOWN TO SAY HELLO I DONT HAVE A BOYFRIEND, HERE I AM !!!!!!!!!!!!! ?!?

All you had to say is something like, "It seems like you'd make a cool girlfriend." or if you are bold, "I wish I had a girlfriend, like you." Then she would assume you really want her, and that would trip her into asking you out directly if she's interested, or she will gently decline, because you did not ask her a hard question. You played it cool, forcing her to chase.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
Adama
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama »

BTW, your goal is not a date. Your goal is to make her your own. Don't ask for a date. Suggest to hang out. If you suggest, she will take it as a soft question. She will take it as a question, or it will force her to rephrase and ask you directly. Example: "We should hang out." Or "We should go out for drinks." You didnt ask for anything, but you made suggestions. She can either go along with it or she can give a gentle no (gentle because you didnt ask, you only suggested). Asking is submissive. You are a man. You cannot ask her for one single thing. You can give commands and make suggestions. You cannot ask her to do anything. But if you need to know something, you can inquire.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
Adama
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama »

That's what I meant by having a conversation alone. First you two have to be alone. Then you have to be able to have a conversation. Then you actually have to have a conversation.

It sounds like you were alone with women, but you were unable or unwilling to make conversation with them when you were alone. I think that if you had let conversation flow naturally, and if you had had faith in yourself as being worthy, then she would have asked you out right then and there. But it could not happen because you did not have a response other than to shrug your shoulders and walk away.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
Adama
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama »

See the problem isnt women, or even that women aren't proactive. It is that you gave up early and didnt believe you were capable or worthy. Now if you realize this, this is probably not the first time you bungled a layup. If you go back in your memories, there are probably half a dozen or more similar times you fumbled the ball for no reason other than you didnt believe you were capable of catching it.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
traveller
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by traveller »

jamesbond wrote:When you have a large portion of the female population in the US who look like this, maybe it's just best to avoid American women altogether! :P

Image
Indeed, it's really hurtful when a woman dresses one way but acts the opposite way. Like for instance, you try to interact with a scantily clothed woman, exposed cleavage, exposed upper thighs, and all, but she tells you to go away and/or she even runs off and complains to someone and you get told to leave the area.
GoingAwol
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by GoingAwol »

Well,
keep in mind that I was 18 when this happened and the girl was 22. I think that was why I had so much doubt in that case. Girls in that age range typically aren't interested in guys 4 years younger than they are.
Adama
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama »

GoingAwol wrote:Well,
keep in mind that I was 18 when this happened and the girl was 22. I think that was why I had so much doubt in that case. Girls in that age range typically aren't interested in guys 4 years younger than they are.

Usually, or sometimes. Then there are a whole bunch of women who like younger men. Most of the time you'd be correct, but leave that for the other men to be constricted by. You don't need to confine yourself or restrict yourself by assumptions that the woman would never want you. Your assumption should be that "this woman probably wants me, all I have to do is wait and she'll let me know."
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
onethousandknives
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by onethousandknives »

Adama wrote:
GoingAwol wrote: If you are saying that women will "drop subtle hints" I can agree with you. However, you will never get me to believe that women make it very obvious or outright say "I like you". Women will always operate in a way that gives them plausible deniability in case they change their minds tomorrow or 10 seconds from now. Of course, I guess it just depends on what you consider a heavy hint. I think I have an example of what you might consider a heavy hint. A couple of years ago I worked with this one girl who I was very attracted to (We'll call her Amanda). Anyways, one day I was telling a guy I worked with that I liked her (We'll call him C.J) and he lied and told me they (him and her) were already dating. Obviously, this was very awkward for me and it ended any thoughts I had of asking her out. Anyways, apparently word got back to Amanda that C.J had told me they were dating and she made it a point to flag me down at work one day and ask me "Did C.J tell you we were dating?" to which I replied "Yea he mentioned that" and she responded "Well he lied, we aren't dating. we are just friends" and I simply said "Oh ok" and went back to what I was doing. In retrospect it appears she was basically saying "Hey i'm single! Ask me out dummy!" but in the moment that wasn't so obvious. In fact, maybe it's not obvious at all. Her making it a point to let me know she wasn't dating that guy could mean she just didn't want rumors spreading around the workplace that they were dating. It appears that she was dropping a heavy hint, but her actions could be interpreted several ways. The bottom line is trying to read women is usually an exercise in futility. And let's suppose you think you are getting green lights from a woman and decide to act on them. You only have a very limited time to process them and act before she loses interest and moves on. So even if you are getting "hints" you are still taking a shot in the dark if you decide to act on it. And add social anxiety and/or ASD into the mix and it becomes even more scary/risky. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
This isn't an honest culture. So no, you cannot expect an American woman to flat out say, "I like you" from the start. Besides that, it sounds desperate to make such confessions so early, and even if she felt that way, she wouldn't say it like that. But if you do have time alone, specifically alone, and she can have a conversation with you, if she is interested, she will make it clear to you that she is interested, and usually with her words. If the two of you are alone, and she's interested, she will inquire about your relationship status, she will tell you how available she is, and she may even briefly skirt around the topic of sex (and if she starts directly talking about sex, then it is almost guaranteed she's interested).

Women will say things like, "I'm about to break up with my boyfriend." Or, "My boyfriend won't talk to me," or "I haven't seen him." or whatever to signal she has broken up with her boyfriend. SHe's signally her availability, most especially when you never even asked her that question! Most times when women don't like men, they go out of their way to mention their boyfriend immediately before the guy gets any ideas in his head. So if she is denying the existence or talking about ending it with him, there you go. Some women will even talk about sex they've had with other men. Or how much other men want them, just to seem more desirable to you. These can be real or made up by the women. That's because they believe in the scarcity principle, that everyone wants what everyone else wants, increasing its value thereby.

She may also ask if you are single, have a girlfriend, what kind of women you like, etc.

Has any of this ever happened to you before? Yes, you told me above that it has happened to you. You just didnt know how to follow up on it.

Women are better at conversation and they desire to have conversation. They talk a lot.
Then why should I live here or date women in this culture, then?
MattHanson1990
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by MattHanson1990 »

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Last edited by MattHanson1990 on February 13th, 2017, 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jamesbond
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by jamesbond »

Adama wrote:BTW, your goal is not a date. Your goal is to make her your own. Don't ask for a date. Suggest to hang out. If you suggest, she will take it as a soft question. She will take it as a question, or it will force her to rephrase and ask you directly. Example: "We should hang out." Or "We should go out for drinks." You didnt ask for anything, but you made suggestions. She can either go along with it or she can give a gentle no (gentle because you didnt ask, you only suggested). Asking is submissive. You are a man. You cannot ask her for one single thing. You can give commands and make suggestions. You cannot ask her to do anything. But if you need to know something, you can inquire.
This is very true, a lot of dating experts agree that men should NEVER ask a woman out on a date, they should only "suggest to hang out."

Asking a woman for a date makes the man look like he is being submissive. Instead the man should say things like, "we should hang out sometimes" or "we should go out for drinks sometime."

Women do the choosing and if a woman likes a guy she will definitely make it known that she is interested in him.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
re85with
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by re85with »

GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.

I admit that I am shy/quiet/socially awkward. But, those emotions of mines are not as strong as they were in the past.

There are guys who are like me. And then there are guys who have little or no experience with women. I belong in both categories. It is sad. But, the solution for both categories of us men is going overseas or a different place where different women are located. There are women in the world who accept, like, and want to be with men who are shy, quiet, and or socially awkward. Like me, those guys have to go find and meet them.

The right woman can help a man overcome his shyness/social awkwardness more than a therapist does.
I now run a video chatting business with my Ukrainian friend and translator (Elizabeth) so that we can help men around the world communicate and build serious relationships with Ukrainian ladies in her dating agency. https://facebook.com/foreignchatweb
Nailer
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Nailer »

I think it's fine to talk to strangers, but:

1. You have to be extremely gentle. Make sure they are talking just a little more than you. If you don't scare them off, a lot of people will be glad to have someone pay attention to them. Everyone wants someone cooler than them to pay attention to them. No one wants the attention of a weird loser. Being stylish basically signals social self-awareness and conformance to societal norms.

2. If you initiate conversation, make it all about them. Give them a chance to open up about something. Never say anything slightly negative, introspective, or analytical when you first meet someone. There's always a heightened fear of "this person might be weird" which I am sure you've felt at times when a stranger talks to you. I don't even make any jokes anymore since people get offended so easily. Humor is pretty much verboten in 2017 America.

3. Above all, make sure you never never have the attitude of "I am lonely, I need someone else to give me attention". You have to give attention to others and listen about their day, not ask others to be your audience. If you feel needy, it will come across and be very unattractive. A good mood is infectious, but a bad mood repels others.

4. The easy part is you don't have to be witty, say the right thing, or be impressive. Low-key and calm is the way to go, and stay focused and interested on what they are saying. People love attention and love talking about themselves. You don't even need to be an extrovert to do this.

For example, the other day I sat down in a hip coffee shop and after a few minutes noticed a girl seated about 6 feet to my left. I didn't think anything of it, but I happened to come out of the bathroom and was washing my hands next to her, at the same time she was. So I asked what she was working on, and talked to her for like 30 seconds. 20 minutes later as I was leaving, I walked over to her, introduced myself, made a very low-key joke, and left. That's the way you do it, just be carefree and leave them wanting more.

If I see her again, maybe I will talk to her and eventually have sex with her. Maybe not. But there's always hot girls at that spot, so I don't worry too much about it.

If you live someone where hot girls are rare, you have to be much more aggressive, since you will only see one once a week. I prefer to have lots of low-risk investments rather than make aggressive approaches in hostile environments.
IraqVet2003
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by IraqVet2003 »

re85with wrote:
GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.

I admit that I am shy/quiet/socially awkward. But, those emotions of mines are not as strong as they were in the past.

There are guys who are like me. And then there are guys who have little or no experience with women. I belong in both categories. It is sad. But, the solution for both categories of us men is going overseas or a different place where different women are located. There are women in the world who accept, like, and want to be with men who are shy, quiet, and or socially awkward. Like me, those guys have to go find and meet them.

The right woman can help a man overcome his shyness/social awkwardness more than a therapist does.
Hey re85with, I would like to also admit I too am a shy/quiet/socially awkward person but as much as in the past either. However, I too agree that by going overseas to a more friendly, open and inclusive social environment guys like us would better our odds of success at finding attractive/good women. There would be no need for "game" and we would have the freedom to be ourselves!!!
snede
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by snede »

There is always need for "game", it's just a matter of degree. In some places dressing nicely, paying attention to hygiene and being polite is enough to meet and date women.
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