The End Of Europe

[Taco]

Germany is the only country in Europe that's thriving at the moment.

The End Of Europe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYtbEJfQtDI

[Maker55]

The whole world including europe runs off fiat currency which loses its value when more of it is printed.

[Teal Lantern]

The whole world including europe runs off fiat currency which loses its value when more of it is printed.

They don't even bother to print it anymore, other than to replace worn out bills.
Most "money" is digits on a computer, somewhere waiting to go *poof* on the whim of some bureaucrap or insider crook.

Treasury bonds are now "electronic" rather than on paper certificates.
That'll make it much easier to change the terms of the deal, in the future.

[Tsar]

Small businesses and isolationist economies were the lifeblood of national economies. Globalization destroys economies and creates poverty. Unless isolationism and protectionism returns there will be poverty and a never-ending recession/depression. In the past technology, commodities, and items scarce or unavailable to the given locale were imported.

In general free trade, outsourcing, and globalization must end before prosperity return.

[gsjackson]

Small businesses and isolationist economies were the lifeblood of national economies. Globalization destroys economies and creates poverty. Unless isolationism and protectionism returns there will be poverty and a never-ending recession/depression. In the past technology, commodities, and items scarce or unavailable to the given locale were imported.

In general free trade, outsourcing, and globalization must end before prosperity return.

I agree with this. That's why we'll probably eventually see the end of the European Union. Certainly not the end of Europe because of its social contract.

[zacb]

Well,and Switzerland. But I think it was smart to keep the Franc. Tells you something.

[Maker55]

The whole world including europe runs off fiat currency which loses its value when more of it is printed.

They don't even bother to print it anymore, other than to replace worn out bills.
Most "money" is digits on a computer, somewhere waiting to go *poof* on the whim of some bureaucrap or insider crook.

Treasury bonds are now "electronic" rather than on paper certificates.
That'll make it much easier to change the terms of the deal, in the future.

It is digital but they still need to print fiat currency in some capacity, that's why the economy is so unstable.

That's what's lead to inflation which is the continuous printing of fiat currency and they will continue to do so.

[abcdavid01]

Small businesses and isolationist economies were the lifeblood of national economies. Globalization destroys economies and creates poverty. Unless isolationism and protectionism returns there will be poverty and a never-ending recession/depression. In the past technology, commodities, and items scarce or unavailable to the given locale were imported.

In general free trade, outsourcing, and globalization must end before prosperity return.

I agree with this. That's why we'll probably eventually see the end of the European Union. Certainly not the end of Europe because of its social contract.

Well, you could also point to all the Pakis in London and how it has a White minority now. That's your End of Europe. I don't suppose they'll put immigration restrictions in though. Can't be called racists.

[publicduende]

Treasury bonds are now "electronic" rather than on paper certificates.
That'll make it much easier to change the terms of the deal, in the future. [/color]

No, that's wrong actually. Electronic transactions on bonds, swaps and any other financial product for that matter, don't change the fixed nature of the contracts and associated covenants. And this is the problem. You're probably following what's happeninig to Cyprus right now. They prefer sending the entire banking system of a EU member country, no matter how small, down the drain rather than giving those German, British and French bondholders a haircut. If blood needs be, let it be taxpayers' and depositors' blood, even better if from the new "love to hate" guy, Russia!

[Teal Lantern]

Treasury bonds are now "electronic" rather than on paper certificates.
That'll make it much easier to change the terms of the deal, in the future.

No, that's wrong actually.

Really? Then someone had better let the govt know that their own websites and press releases are wrong.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/res ... _tbond.htm

Bonds exist in either of two formats: as paper certificates (these are older bonds) or as electronic entries in accounts.
Today we issue Treasury bonds in electronic form, not paper.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/news/pres ... nd0711.htm

Treasury to End Over-the-Counter Sales of Paper U.S. Savings Bonds

Goodbye, Paper Savings Bonds
http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/ ... ngs-bonds/

Banks will no longer sell Savings Bonds
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/pe ... onic_n.htm

Electronic transactions on bonds, swaps and any other financial product for that matter, don't change the fixed nature of the contracts and associated covenants. And this is the problem. You're probably following what's happeninig to Cyprus right now. They prefer sending the entire banking system of a EU member country, no matter how small, down the drain rather than giving those German, British and French bondholders a haircut. If blood needs be, let it be taxpayers' and depositors' blood, even better if from the new "love to hate" guy, Russia!

I will express it a bit more directly, then.
Being at the mercy of electronic records with no paper copies will allow them to conduct fraud faster, easier, and on millions at once, rather than one victim at a time.

Talk to former Sentinel Management Group customers or MF Global customers about the "fixed nature of the contracts and associated covenants".
Ask them about their customer segregated funds (unencumbered cash) being stolen.

[publicduende]

Well, you could also point to all the Pakis in London and how it has a White minority now. That's your End of Europe. I don't suppose they'll put immigration restrictions in though. Can't be called racists.

David, you're probably not aware of that, but Paki is a very derogatory word to address Pakistani/Bangladeshi people in the UK, equivalent to calling black people n**gers. I am sure you didn't mean to be racist and offensive. Most people from those communities settled in the UK in the 70s, many of them under explicit invitation of the UK government. There are no more hordes of migrants from those countries, if anything because they're slowly emerging from poverty, while it's Old Blighty to sink into stagnation, the heydays of Blairite financial brightness long gone.

[publicduende]

Electronic transactions on bonds, swaps and any other financial product for that matter, don't change the fixed nature of the contracts and associated covenants. And this is the problem. You're probably following what's happeninig to Cyprus right now. They prefer sending the entire banking system of a EU member country, no matter how small, down the drain rather than giving those German, British and French bondholders a haircut. If blood needs be, let it be taxpayers' and depositors' blood, even better if from the new "love to hate" guy, Russia!

I will express it a bit more directly, then.
Being at the mercy of electronic records with no paper copies will allow them to conduct fraud faster, easier, and on millions at once, rather than one victim at a time.

Talk to former Sentinel Management Group customers or MF Global customers about the "fixed nature of the contracts and associated covenants".
Ask them about their customer segregated funds (unencumbered cash) being stolen.

Hehe...not that simple, my friend. Both Sentinel and MF Global have scammed private and small and medium-sized institutional investors, not banks. A collapse of the Cypriot bond market would affect...EU countries and their (already amply insolvent) investment banks. That is a huge difference.

The point: bonds are untouchable when they have a risk to dent the financial architecture of the status quo. Nobody could care less if some Norwegian town hall or filthy Russian oligarch loses 6% or 66% of their wealth. Wolf eats sheep, not wolf. And anyway, both Sentinel (Bloom and Mosley) and MF Global (lots of people including Corzine) are being rained on with civil and criminal charges.

[Teal Lantern]

Hehe...not that simple, my friend. Both Sentinel and MF Global have scammed private and small and medium-sized institutional investors, not banks. A collapse of the Cypriot bond market would affect...EU countries and their (already amply insolvent) investment banks. That is a huge difference.

The point: bonds are untouchable when they have a risk to dent the financial architecture of the status quo. Nobody could care less if some Norwegian town hall or filthy Russian oligarch loses 6% or 66% of their wealth. Wolf eats sheep, not wolf. And anyway, both Sentinel (Bloom and Mosley) and MF Global (lots of people including Corzine) are being rained on with civil and criminal charges.

If the wolf is a bank holding money for the sheep, I contend this is an important factor.
Sentinel ruling may hurt MF Global clients
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/ ... 0T20120810

Lawsuits can and do drag on for years, depending on which big shot is being sued.
Lot of good that does to older plaintiffs, tying up their money and waiting for them to die off.
That aside, if you know of an article showing Corzine being brought up on criminal charges (not articles saying charges SHOULD BE, but saying charges HAVE BEEN), I'd like to see it.

[abcdavid01]

Well, you could also point to all the Pakis in London and how it has a White minority now. That's your End of Europe. I don't suppose they'll put immigration restrictions in though. Can't be called racists.

David, you're probably not aware of that, but Paki is a very derogatory word to address Pakistani/Bangladeshi people in the UK, equivalent to calling black people n**gers. I am sure you didn't mean to be racist and offensive. Most people from those communities settled in the UK in the 70s, many of them under explicit invitation of the UK government. There are no more hordes of migrants from those countries, if anything because they're slowly emerging from poverty, while it's Old Blighty to sink into stagnation, the heydays of Blairite financial brightness long gone.

Oh, I'm just being facetious. It's an American hipster thing for Whites to use nigger ironically. I'm not exactly White though...but I am kind of a fascist, so take it as you will. Enoch Powell, Oswald Mosley, etc.

I've always said though, I'm someone who agrees with White nationalism 90% but the part I disagree with is basically that Whites should know better when the poor minorities can't really be blamed for having a poor mentality. It's like minorities have nowhere to go but up and Whites nowhere to go but down. Maybe in a couple hundred years and several generations down the line one of my descendants will say they agree with, like, Indian nationalism 90% at the expense of degenerate Whites. I just look at the situation on the ground.

The UK government f***ed up before then anyway. Pretty much soon after WWII. I base that on my recent discovery that it was Queen Elizabeth who threw out debutante balls in 1958.

Many deb mothers "suffered great consternation" and thought the queen had abandoned them, wrote MacCarthy. Fathers thought the "country they had fought for was going to the dogs."

http://blog.nola.com/millieball/2008/10 ... antes.html

[publicduende]

If the wolf is a bank holding money for the sheep, I contend this is an important factor.
Sentinel ruling may hurt MF Global clients
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/ ... 0T20120810

OK, but neither Sentinel nor MF Global are banks, they're buy-side institutions (who buy the products from the structuring desks or retail channels of the banks) or brokers. This big broad category of players, which include fund and asset managers, hedge funds and specialised insurers (like AIG) are much less regulated than sell-side institutions, the likes of JP Morgan, Barclays and Bank of America.

This is why, at least to the public eye, a scandal like the Li(e)bor fixing was far, far more devastating than a couple of highly speculative outfits doing what do they do best - scam all sorts of people by not playing by the rules - and losing everything in the process. This is the difference.

Lawsuits can and do drag on for years, depending on which big shot is being sued.
Lot of good that does to older plaintiffs, tying up their money and waiting for them to die off.
That aside, if you know of an article showing Corzine being brought up on criminal charges (not articles saying charges SHOULD BE, but saying charges HAVE BEEN), I'd like to see it.

Corzine is still managing to stay on the side, but last I read, lots of people working at MF Global got indicted. Then you're right, those cases might drag along for ages. What matters is that the public confidence in the transparency and integrity of these snake oil vendors is dented forever. When that level of disfigurement happens in the world of big-time investment banks, already shattered by Libor scandal, derivative casino fails (London whale), that will be the real endgame alright.