Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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Moretorque
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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I think the human race is nothing but losers, I am not impressed with what most consider success.

The sooner the mess extinction finishes it's job the better in my book...
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by HappyGuy »

Moretorque wrote:
May 17th, 2020, 1:34 am
I think the human race is nothing but losers, I am not impressed with what most consider success.
:D

May 21, 2020
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WorldTraveler
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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Moretorque wrote:
May 17th, 2020, 1:34 am
I think the human race is nothing but losers, I am not impressed with what most consider success.
So what do you consider success?
Moretorque
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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WorldTraveler wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 10:53 am
Moretorque wrote:
May 17th, 2020, 1:34 am
I think the human race is nothing but losers, I am not impressed with what most consider success.
So what do you consider success?
I don't know what success is but a mass extinction as they have suggested means we lose big time as in terminated.... :roll:

We need to all be going vegetarian so the ECO can recover, we don't need to do it permanetly but to stop it so we can correctly evaluate the planet. I no longer eat seafood and no children so I am trying a little..
Last edited by Moretorque on July 12th, 2020, 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Neo
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
May 16th, 2020, 8:31 pm
Oh I agree with that! But I still like to do it because it shows me the character of people based on their reactions. People who are hostile or naysaying are the ones we need to watch out for because they see your gains as their loss or deprivation. Healthy people see your gains as their POSSIBILITIES.
It doesn't make sense to me, but it seems to be true. I could possibly understand it (but not approve of it), if the two men (the two friends) were competing for the same woman, and one got her and the other didn't, that there would be a small amount of frustration.

But if the two men aren't competing for the same exact woman, it makes no sense. Because there are plenty of women out there, just like there is plenty of money out there. Why should a man be envious of his friend's success with women or finances? One man's success doesn't limit another man's success.

Prosperity reveals who's envious and against you. Adversity reveals who hates you so much that they won't bother to help.


*This post is not directed at anyone here.
Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, and those to be shunned.
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Contrarian Expatriate
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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Neo wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:35 am
But if the two men aren't competing for the same exact woman, it makes no sense. Because there are plenty of women out there, just like there is plenty of money out there.
Most of it has to do with having a scarcity mindset versus an abundance mindset. Your statement above indicates that you have an abundance mindset which is very positive.

Those on the other side of the coin view life as a zero sum game, that is, someone else’s gain is their loss. This is the mindset that triggers envy.

Pathological envy is a bit of a different animal. That gets into the success of others making them FEEL bad about themselves and it is related to narcissistic injury and narcissistic rage even. These people react to the good fortune of others by trying to deny it is true, minimizing its importance, or by attacking in any number of ways.

If you read between the lines with these types, they are really describing elements of themselves and attributing these elements to you. That is the great irony of the phenomenon and that is why I like to trigger people into that reaction. You get to see who is the most dissatisfied with themselves. Perhaps they come to see it too.
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hypermak
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by hypermak »

I know we went through this time and again but it bears repeating: what some people call "haters" do not hate genuinely successful people. They can't stand people who fake success, who unfortunately abound in the States and some circles associated to the many "get rich quick" gurus.

The prevailing mentality in these circles is that you are immediately labelled as a loser if you don't show your big mansion in the suburb, your sport car, your trophy gf/wife. These people ignore the reality that those who get those luxuries by not working extremely hard for decades are a tiny, insignificant minority, even in the US.

Yes you have a few young men and women who got lucky founding a start-up, sold it to the right corporation at the right time, packed a few millions and can now live a lavish life. Or those who invested in Bitcoin very early and sold during the late 2017/early 2018 craze.

Even the genuinely successful start-up entrepreneurs will tend to live a comfortable but relatively normal life and invest most of their money into other business ventures. Passion drives them, not money. They have nothing to prove and they hate to show off.

That's why most of us who don't believe in fake success can smell it a thousand mile afar. There are so many typical signs of this attitude that can immediately expose the wannabe successful entrepreneur as a phoney.

The main one is the fact that they constantly brag about their success and money without ever going in detail on how they achieved it. Some of the fake gurus use this kind of suspenseful non-disclosure to create a halo of authority around them. They will give you a few details, but only if you join their "free" seminars, or you buy their "discounted only for today" course or package. This is the ultimate telltale sign that their "success" or wealth, if any, is solely based on their ability to convince their audience that they have got something valuable to teach, or give, and selling that idea. Whatever money these entrepreneurs got, they got it from you, the gullible buyer, not any of the companies they purportedly created and developed.

Truly successful people don't need to brag about anything: whatever they did, or didn't do, is usually public domain: the companies they founded or run, the positions they held at those companies, sometimes even the signs of their success. They let the paparazzi and the curious reveal whatever they have and, even then, you see how uncomfortable they are when someone exposes the material side of their success.

Successful entrepreneurs will never be too happy to give someone else a secret recipe, let alone at a price, because such recipe is very, very simple to almost everybody: find a profession, an industry, an activity that you love doing or you are objectively good at, and work hard to to excel at it. That's the only way not only to be successful at something, but also to be fully satisfied about what you achieved, because you worked for it and saw it growing, stuttering and then growing again, every step of the way.

There is no other magic formula than this, and it's such plain common sense that it's stupid to even think of masquerading it as something only few people know/master and can sell you.
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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Somehow I suspected you were obsessively following my postings. Well, now I know....
hypermak wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 7:32 pm
I know we went through this time and again but it bears repeating: what some people call "haters" do not hate genuinely successful people. They can't stand people who fake success, who unfortunately abound in the States and some circles associated to the many "get rich quick" gurus.
I know English is not your first language, but a "hater" is a modern slang term that describes someone who envies, not one who actually hates. So while I personally couldn’t care less about what you think about me, the hater moniker you've earned for yourself means that you are pathologically envious of people doing better than yourself. You need to do some deep personal work on that.
hypermak wrote: Even the genuinely successful start-up entrepreneurs will tend to live a comfortable but relatively normal life and invest most of their money into other business ventures. Passion drives them, not money. They have nothing to prove and they hate to show off.
Utter nonsense on 2 counts..... First, building wealth is a legitimate passion in and of itself. That someone in your past brainwashed you into thinking that wealth-building is bad or taboo is the burden you'll have to deal with in life. Second, wealthy people come in all stripes. Some like living as minimalists, some like to live comfortably, and most like to live in a manner that indicates the measure their success. If that is "showing off" to you, again, you need to deal with why other people's good fortune triggers you into "hating" (in both contexts) it. Healthy people see others enjoying their success and they are made happy by it or inspired by it even. For some reason, you are deeply triggered by it. You and I both know the reason you have this insecurity about yourself. There is no need to rehash it again. But again, you need to do some deep personal work on that.
hypermak wrote: That's why most of us who don't believe in fake success can smell it a thousand mile afar. There are so many typical signs of this attitude that can immediately expose the wannabe successful entrepreneur as a phoney.
Define for us what you consider "fake success?" People who are living better than you by all objective measures are somehow "fake" because they have achieved what you believe you cannot? Or is using the term "fake success" simply your coping mechanism to deal with the blows your ego takes when you see things out of your reach? Or perhaps it is just your attempt to personally invalidate others good living and contentment as fake since there is nothing else you can do? That is the same psychological impulse that causes people like you to consider the hot girlfriend of a guy "ugly" simply because you know she is above your level. I have a newsflash for you.... Calling a gorgeous girlfriend ugly does not make her ugly, and calling top 10% wealth "fake" does not make it fake. They might be in your mind, but that, again, is what attenuates your personal pain surrounding things that are clearly out of your reach. You need to do some deep personal work on that.
hypermak wrote: The main one is the fact that they constantly brag about their success and money without ever going in detail on how they achieved it.
So now we are getting into your issues of entitlement. Why do people who have figured it all out have to treat you like a charity case and teach you for free? There is a reason you have to pay for university, books, seminars, training, and self-help strategies. People worked hard to learn it for themselves, and they have to work to relay it to others. Why would they not seek some sort of compensation for their work? If you are so twisted into a bundle about having to pay to learn from experts in the field, that is pathological entitlement and you should just learn everything on your own (and fail in the process).
When we see you giving free cooking classes to people on YouTube, you'll likely soon understand that you should be receiving some measure of compensation for it. You really need to do some deep personal work on that.

hypermak wrote: Some of the fake gurus use this kind of suspenseful non-disclosure to create a halo of authority around them. They will give you a few details, but only if you join their "free" seminars, or you buy their "discounted only for today" course or package. This is the ultimate telltale sign that their "success" or wealth, if any, is solely based on their ability to convince their audience that they have got something valuable to teach, or give, and selling that idea. Whatever money these entrepreneurs got, they got it from you, the gullible buyer, not any of the companies they purportedly created and developed.
And who died and left you the judge of what is real and what is fake? There certainly are fake gurus out there, but if you are not smart enough to investigate someone’s professional background, peruse reviews of their offerings, and make an informed decision about what is fake and what is not, than you deserve to stay broke and bitterly working in a kitchen. You really need to do some deep personal work on that.
hypermak wrote: Truly successful people don't need to brag about anything: whatever they did, or didn't do, is usually public domain: the companies they founded or run, the positions they held at those companies, sometimes even the signs of their success. They let the paparazzi and the curious reveal whatever they have and, even then, you see how uncomfortable they are when someone exposes the material side of their success.
And who the heck died and left you the arbiter of who is and who is not "truly" successful? It speaks volumes that you have such a hostility to those who are better off then you. When I saw wealthy people as a young man I was captivated by them and inspired by them. I was lucky enough to sit next to a multi-millionaire on a flight to (Italy of all places). We had a wonderful conversation and he told me, "You seem like an exceptionally bright young man. If you want to be wealthy in this life, there is one world you need to keep in mind.... (The friendlies on the site can DM me and I'll explain further). He told me that word and it turns out that he was 100% correct. Had I been envious of this rich, older man and called him "fake," I would not be sitting in the best hotel in this city with enough leisure time to type out these posts.
hypermak wrote: Successful entrepreneurs will never be too happy to give someone else a secret recipe, let alone at a price, because such recipe is very, very simple to almost everybody: find a profession, an industry, an activity that you love doing or you are objectively good at, and work hard to to excel at it.
Again with the entitled attitude as if you DESERVE to be mentored or given important skills for free. You don't deserve anything with your toxic attitude.
hypermak wrote: That's the only way not only to be successful at something, but also to be fully satisfied about what you achieved, because you worked for it and saw it growing, stuttering and then growing again, every step of the way.
So you, as someone who labors in a kitchen, are giving out success lessons now? The very fact that you think there is only "one way" to be successful means you'll never be. You expect what others work for decades to be simply handed to you like treats. Pathological entitlement is definitely to be added to your list of "issues." You need to do some deep personal work on that.
hypermak wrote: There is no other magic formula than this, and it's such plain common sense that it's stupid to even think of masquerading it as something only few people know/master and can sell you.
Nonsense, there are many formulas to success and big wealth. The fact that you think there is only one (and a fictitious one at that), says a lot about you.

There are reasons why you are where you are and why you'll be where you'll be. You're mindset just sucks and it belies an arrogance that is not befitting your station in life. If you want to be arrogant, you'd better be in the proverbial top 5% if you want to be taken seriously by successful people. The philosophy of success from a 30 something who works in a hotel is laughable at best and to be ignored at worst. You need to do some deep personal work on that.
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

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Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
I know English is not your first language, but a "hater" is a modern slang term that describes someone who envies, not one who actually hates. So while I personally could care less about what you think about me, the hater moniker you've earned for yourself means that you are pathologically envious of people doing better than yourself. You need to do some deep personal work on that.
My English is good enough to know what is meant by "hater". Of course I don't "hate" you and it's exactly as I phrased it before. I can't stand people who fake success and have an urge for showing it off. I was referring to self-help and "get rich quick" gurus but if you felt automatically called out, well... :)
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Utter nonsense on 2 counts..... First, building wealth is a legitimate passion in and of itself. That someone in your past brainwashed you into thinking that wealth-building is bad or taboo is the burden you'll have to deal with in life.
That's what the "gurus" want you to think. That you can build wealth for the sake of wealth, not as a product of some innovative idea, some hard work, perhaps some luck. Those who genuinely built a fortune for themselves all had a trade, an industry of choice, and plenty of passion and talent. They were engineers, computer scientists, mathematicians and physicists, economists etc. Those who didn't have a solid grounding learned the trade from their families, or from other business owners who mentored them.

The very fact that you believe you can build wealth as a passion/activity in itself without even mentioning the talent and the hard work required, is the telltale sign that you do not know how to build wealth, apart from some investment that everybody with extra cash can do. Your luck as an investor is not that you were smarter than the rest of us, it's that you built a life around yourself and obviously that translated in sufficient spare cash to invest.

If you had a mortgage to pay, 2 kids to put through college and a job you could actually be fired from, if you underperform, your disposable cash would have been a tiny fraction.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Second, wealthy people come in all stripes. Some like living as minimalists, some like to live comfortably, and most like to live in a manner that indicates the measure their success. If that is "showing off" to you, again, you need to deal with why other people's good fortune triggers you into "hating" (in both contexts) it. Healthy people see others enjoying their success and they are made happy by it or inspired by it even. For some reason, you are deeply triggered by it. You and I both know the reason you have this insecurity about yourself. There is no need to rehash it again. But again, you need to do some deep personal work on that.
I agree that wealthy people come in all colours. Your choice was to not to have anybody depend on your finances and I for one don't contest that choice. This is just me, but I personally don't like people who "live in a manner that indicates the measure of their success" because that very attitude is a huge sign that they are not as successful as they think they are.

Really successful people, and I have cross paths with a lot of them in my profession, don't have any interest or desire to show off their success to anyone. Maybe their wives or Instagram bling kids might do, but they usually don't.

I am not deeply triggered, I just like to call you on your BS on threads that you specifically created to show off whatever wealth and success you think you have. Basically, shutting up and living your life and perhaps offer advice on how to meet hot girls in Ukraine while spending the least amount of money, would be a better strategy.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Define for us what you consider "fake success?" People who are living better than you by all objective measures are somehow "fake" because they have achieved what you believe you cannot? Or is using the term "fake success" simply your coping mechanism to deal with the blows your ego takes when you see things out of your reach? Or perhaps it is just your attempt to personally invalidate others good living and contentment as fake since there is nothing else you can do? That is the same psychological impulse that causes people like you to consider the hot girlfriend of a guy "ugly" simply because you know she is above your level. I have a newsflash for you.... Calling a gorgeous girlfriend ugly does not make her ugly, and calling top 10% wealth "fake" does not make it fake. They might be in your mind, but that, again, is what attenuates your personal pain surrounding things that are clearly out of your reach. You need to do some deep personal work on that.
No, people who have to show off their "success" are not successful in my book. Plain and simple. I have a totally different definition of success than yours. I do understand that we come from different cultures and lifestyles.

My family, including myself, have had to put decades of waking up before sunrise and work until past midnight, to be where they are. Of course there are plenty of shortcuts, especially in a corrupted place like Italy, but none of them chose to pursue these shortcuts. We are reasonably wealthy as a family but if you see the house we live in, the cars we drive and how we dress (the few times we don't wear our aprons, that is), you would never be able to tell.

The US culture is much more driven by appearance: you are what you own, or lease and show off. I understand you are a child of that culture and, in a way, you're not better, no worse than many other people I know from that culture. Again, I don't "hate" on them, but they're not exactly on top of my list of people I respect and hang out with.

The reason why I am hard on you is because you act particularly arrogant and never lose a chance to indulge in personal insults that are 100% gratuitous.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
So now we are getting into your issues of entitlement. Why do people who have figured it all out have to treat you like a charity case and teach you for free? There is a reason you have to pay for university, books, seminars, training, and self-help strategies. People worked hard to learn it for themselves, and they have to work to relay it to others. Why would they not seek some sort of compensation for their work. If you are so twisted into a bundle about having to pay to learn from experts in the field, that is pathological entitlement and you should just learn everything on your own (and fail in the process).
When we see you giving free cooking classes to people on YouTube, you'll likely soon understand that you should be receiving some measure of compensation for it. You really need to do some deep personal work on that.
I am agreeing with you. Valuable information comes at a cost and must be paid for. The issue I am taking is exactly at the root of this: is the information these self-help gurus love to "sell" really valuable? Is it really meant to get you started on a real business activity and make some real money off it, or it's meant to hook you on an endless cycle of "I am only one more book/course away from achieving my dream"?

Like many industrial products, these self-help materials are never meant to get you really satisfied. They are meant to feed your addiction for more of the same, while making said gurus wealthy. And even when some of these become wealthy indeed, they do it at the back of all these people they effectively defraud. I could call them "wealthy" but I would never called them "successful".

Let me give you an example: every culinary professional of some reputation/success must have had one or more mentors, in the form of executive chefs, or restaurant/hotel owners who believed in their talent and craft. The mentorship has a cost, but it's not money. It's proving, every single day, that you are up to their standards and can absorb their experience the hard way: by working very hard, correcting every mistake quickly. The moment they see you failing they will immediately get you out of the door and pick someone else, the list is usually long.

The best experience I have ever had was from the 2 execs I worked under, in London and Malta. From a purely monetary point of view, it was completely free, it came with the job. Yet, I had to earn every day of it.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
And who died and left you the judge of what is real and what is fake? There certainly are fake gurus out there, but if you are not smart enough to investigate someones professional background, peruse reviews of their offerings, and make an informed decision about what is fake and what is not, than you deserve to stay broke and bitterly working in a kitchen. You really need to do some deep personal work on that.
It's very easy to tell fake gurus from real, sucessful businessmen. You never meet a real succesful businessman on YouTube, or on a website designed to sell away their "secret formulas". You meet them on the job, as an apprentice, perhaps in a game of golf if you're lucky, maybe while interviewing them. Perhaps they're your college professors, or those you did your Masters or PhD thesis with.

Celebrity chef phenomenon apart, I don't know a single top-tier Exec chef who maintains a blog or a website promising to offer the ultimate recipe for success in the profession. Everybody knows they are busy actually running their establishments and mentoring the few people who they choose to. I am not so knowledgeable about other industries but I imagine this is what happens in other fields: engineering, IT, finance etc.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
And who the heck died and left you the arbiter of who is and is not "truly" successful? It speaks volumes that you have such a hostility to those who are better off then you. When I saw wealthy people as a young man I was captivated by them and inspired by them. I was lucky enough to sit next to a multi-millionaire on a flight to (Italy of all places). We had a wonderful conversation and he told me, "You seem like an exceptionally bright young man. If you want to be wealthy in this life, there is one world you need to keep in mind.... (The friendlies on the site can DM me and I'll explain further). He told me that word and it turns out that he was 100% correct. Had I been envious of this rich, older man and called him "fake," I would not be sitting in the best hotel in this city with enough leisure time to type out these posts.
Again with this hostility thing. Let's put it like this: no offense to Winston and the other HA members but, if you really were a successful businessman, you wouldn't spend time on this forum. You would have no interest whatsoever in even writing about your "successes". I am not saying you're a total loser: you obviously have passive income streams and available free time, which at your age is the most precious of commodities.

What I find odious about you and those like you is that they have to brag about it, they have to let everybody know that they are successful and wealthy and charming to all the hot girls. They easily go over the top to the point where their stories become inconsistent and hard to believe. That's where they should, ideally, notice they are overdoing and stop. But they rarely do and once their cover is up they start resenting whoever calls them on their BS, and label them "haters". That's your coping mechanism.

On this we agree: wealthy, successful men tend to inspire us and teach us lessons without us even opening our wallets. Whether your little story is true or not, it does seem to confirm that.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Again with the entitled attitude as if you DESERVE to be mentored or given important skills for free. You don't deserve anything with your toxic attitude.
That's precisely my point. True mentees get chosen by their mentors, don't buy their way into them by buying a book or a package.

Even in my profession, the only democratic way of learning is education. And yet, I can tell you that 90% of the people who I met at high school and culinary academy came from families in the trade: like me, they were used to helping their families in the kitchens and running the places since they were children. The education was but a stepping stone to make their skills rounder. Unlikely their moms or dads could have taught them organic chemistry, biology or HVAC engineering.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
So you, as someone who labors in a kitchen, are giving out success lessons now? The very fact that you think there is only "one way" to be successful means you'll never be. You expect what others work for over decades to be simply handed to you like treats. Pathological entitlement is definitely to be added to your list of "issues." You need to do some deep personal work on that.
As someone who worked hard from the bottom of the kitchen to management, I am at least as entitled to give you my definition of success to anybody else. At least I am warning everybody that's it's my way, not some universal truth, and I am not charging anything for it.

Someone who works hard and earns their grades, every step of the way, is the last person that could be called entitled. So once again stop projecting your own shortcomings on others.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
Nonsense, there are many formulas to success and big wealth. The fact that you think there is only one (and a fictitious one at that), says a lot about you.
There are multiple ways to achieve success, but they all involve talent, a lot of hard work, a little bit of luck. And I forgot, perhaps something that should apply to you, a good dose of humility. By standing by the total opposite of all of that, you keep proving everybody that you're neither successful, nor you will ever achieve success, besides of course in your delusional world.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm
There are reasons why you are where you are and why you'll be where you'll be. You're mindset just sucks and it belies and arrogance that is not befitting your station in life. If you want to be arrogant, you'd better be in the proverbial top 5% if you want to be taken seriously. The philosophy of success from a 30 something who works in a hotel is laughable at best and to be ignored at worst. You need to do some deep personal work on that.
The small difference is that I will be where I am because I worked hard for it. You will only be in a place in your mind because of the power of self-conviction, or self-deception if you prefer a more fitting term.

This is the philosophy of someone who is putting hard work and effort and he is almost near top of his profession at 32, if you care to know. I don't feel like I have anything to teach outside maybe my industry experience. But what I just said is plain and simple common sense. Those who ignore this common sense think, believe, there are shortcuts and magic formulas but they are only deceiving themselves.
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Contrarian Expatriate
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

hypermak wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 10:06 pm
That's what the "gurus" want you to think. That you can build wealth for the sake of wealth, not as a product of some innovative idea, some hard work, perhaps some luck. Those who genuinely built a fortune for themselves all had a trade, an industry of choice, and plenty of passion and talent. They were engineers, computer scientists, mathematicians and physicists, economists etc. Those who didn't have a solid grounding learned the trade from their families, or from other business owners who mentored them.
Or maybe you are just not smart enough to understand how wealth works and that wealth can be built upon itself. Not everyone is bound by your limitations and skepticism.
hypermak wrote: The very fact that you believe you can build wealth as a passion/activity in itself without even mentioning the talent and the hard work required, is the telltale sign that you do not know how to build wealth, apart from some investment that everybody with extra cash can do. Your luck as an investor is not that you were smarter than the rest of us, it's that you built a life around yourself and obviously that translated in sufficient spare cash to invest.
Making it into the top 10% of Americans in terms of income AND wealth is statistically less probable as hitting the lottery. Keep in mind that the top 10% of Americans are top 1% in the world. I was born in the working class so jumping from working, to middle, to upper middle to upper is the result of both intelligence AND hard work. I think your resentment is that I had to work less hard than you are working. That, in and of itself, implies a smarter strategy and smarter deployment of resources. If I were your age working in the culinary field, by now I would be OWNING several restaurants not merely working there. That is the difference between you and me, the intelligent and the average. Sorry that pains you so much to accept.
hypermak wrote: If you had a mortgage to pay, 2 kids to put through college and a job you could actually be fired from, if you underperform, your disposable cash would have been a tiny fraction.
Since when are political appointees unable to be fired? You're just making up facts to suit your argument and losing further because of it.
hypermak wrote: I agree that wealthy people come in all colours. Your choice was to not to have anybody depend on your finances and I for one don't contest that choice. This is just me, but I personally don't like people who "live in a manner that indicates the measure of their success" because that very attitude is a huge sign that they are not as successful as they think they are.
English lesson: Coming in all stripes means they are of all different types and inclinations, not colors. And your thesis here is illogical: People who live according to their achieved wealth are not really successful because they would not have to show it if they were as successful as they thing they are. That strikes me as one of two things, Marxist or class envious. In your case, it might likely be both.
hypermak wrote: Really successful people, and I have cross paths with a lot of them in my profession, don't have any interest or desire to show off their success to anyone. Maybe their wives or Instagram bling kids might do, but they usually don't.
Again, this makes no sense. "Really" successful people (ie. those who don't trigger your pathological envy), don't have ANY interest or desire to show off their success. But then you go backwards and say they "usually" don't. That means you don't even believe what you are writing you are just trying to will it into being when it really just makes no sense. Get a grip on your class envy!
hypermak wrote: I am not deeply triggered, I just like to call you on your BS on threads that you specifically created to show off whatever wealth and success you think you have. Basically, shutting up and living your life and perhaps offer advice on how to meet hot girls in Ukraine while spending the least amount of money, would be a better strategy.
Of course you're triggered. You're the only one who gets angry when you interpret things as showing off. The truth is, I THINK I have success because you feel devalued that I do very well for myself and that does not sit well with you. So, as a consequence, you're trying to shame me into not being proud and open about my lifestyle because it hurts your feelings since you have to work in a hotel for the rest of your life. I get it....

And what, pray tell, do you know know about me that indicates I show off?

-What watches to I own and how many are there?
-What is my current portfolio of properties?
-What vehicle do I drive when in the United States?
-What vehicle do I drive when I am in Europe?
-What is my leisure vehicle of choice, sea vessel, leased aircraft, or luxury/private train car?
-How many incomes streams do I enjoy at the moment?
-How close does my monthly income come to your yearly income as a cook in Manila?
-What is my estate plan?
-What assets do I have in place around the world?
-What is my net worth?
-What brand and style of clothing do I wear most days?
-What about the brand of my favorite daily shoes?

None of this stuff you even know so the fact that you are triggered by my showing off things you know nothing about means your pathological envy is IRRATIONAL. This is why I implore you to get counseling. You've got a lot of inner work to do when you are triggered by things you don't know anything about.
hypermak wrote: No, people who have to show off their "success" are not successful in my book. Plain and simple. I have a totally different definition of success than yours. I do understand that we come from different cultures and lifestyles.
Well we have established that your "book" is one of unsound mental health and based in seething envy and lack of actual knowledge so I am not sure your "book" is of any value.

And cut the crap about different cultures. I first traveled to Italy before you were even born and I have been back since. Italian culture is one of the most ostentatious and "show off" cultures in the world! This is the country that manufactures the most show off cars, boats, fashion in the world and Italians of the upper classes LOVE to show it off!

I do understand some of the lower class Italians, and those from the South tend to be secretive about wealth out of self preservation and not wanting to draw predators like the cosa nostra to them. But in the safer and wealthier parts of the country, it is all about passeggiata with the best clothing to show off and sprezzatura to show off one's class level, income, while appearing to not be trying too hard. So you are either from a lower class family or you are lying about Italian culture. It is sad that I seem to have a more accurate picture of that aspect of Italian culture than you do! But then again, you're lying just to try to prove a very stupid point.
hypermak wrote: My family, including myself, have had to put decades of waking up before sunrise and work until past midnight, to be where they are. Of course there are plenty of shortcuts, especially in a corrupted place like Italy, but none of them chose to pursue these shortcuts. We are reasonably wealthy as a family but if you see the house we live in, the cars we drive and how we dress (the few times we don't wear our aprons, that is), you would never be able to tell.
Cry me a river! Many of our families had to work hard over the last hundred years. If my parents were just smarter than yours about ensuring that their children would NOT have to work so hard to be wealthy, then so be it. Sounds like your family did not do a very good job about teaching you about success and THAT might be your problem too.
hypermak wrote: The US culture is much more driven by appearance: you are what you own, or lease and show off. I understand you are a child of that culture and, in a way, you're not better, no worse than many other people I know from that culture. Again, I don't "hate" on them, but they're not exactly on top of my list of people I respect and hang out with.
So not only are you a true success guru, but you are an expert at US culture as well? You sound more stupid than a Downs Syndrome mute. There is no single US culture you moron. There are people who are showy as in Miami and LA, and their are people who extremely understated in their success like mid-westerners. Not everything in America is like what you see on TV and in the Hollywood films you know. So you don't know what you're talking about.
hypermak wrote: The reason why I am hard on you is because you act particularly arrogant and never lose a chance to indulge in personal insults that are 100% gratuitous.
Ah, you're hard on me? Don't be silly. You don't have the ability to be hard on someone like me. Unless you are the tax authority, a lawsuit, or my accountant, you are recreational banter, nothing more. Don't flatter yourself here.
hypermak wrote: I am not saying you're a total loser: you obviously have passive income streams and available free time, which at your age is the most precious of commodities.
Oh, so now it goes from I was lying about fake wealth and girls, and now it might be true? Well, make up your mind here.
hypermak wrote: What I find odious about you and those like you is that they have to brag about it, they have to let everybody know that they are successful and wealthy and charming to all the hot girls. They easily go over the top to the point where their stories become inconsistent and hard to believe. That's where they should, ideally, notice they are overdoing and stop. But they rarely do and once their cover is up they start resenting whoever calls them on their BS, and label them "haters". That's your coping mechanism.
Again, if I am bragging about the things I have, answer the questions above that we both know you can't. You just hate the IDEA of my being successful and you'd like me to shut up about it. Sorry, there are members of the forum who I actually want to be successful and I interact with them on advice all the time in the private messages. The fact that I no longer do that openly anymore is because the forum has too many toxic personalities who I would never assist with such tidbits.
hypermak wrote: There are multiple ways to achieve success, but they all involve talent, a lot of hard work, a little bit of luck. And I forgot, perhaps something that should apply to you, a good dose of humility. By standing by the total opposite of all of that, you keep proving everybody that you're neither successful, nor you will ever achieve success, besides of course in your delusional world.
Well Eureka! You've made at least some progress on this thread! You went from "The only way to success is to....," to now, "There are multiple ways to achieve success." Part of this is just you're typing things just to try to cause controversy and discord. I know that. But if the stupid stuff you've been writing for weeks is not really true, perhaps there might be some glimmer of hope for you yet.
hypermak wrote: The small difference is that I will be where I am because I worked hard for it. You will only be in a place in your mind because of the power of self-conviction, or self-deception if you prefer a more fitting term.
I have every reason to be proud of myself and I truly am. Snide remarks and "haters" have been part of my journey for DECADES. That just comes with the territory. Surely some, young, anonymous, Italian cook in Manila could never make a dent in my armor of pride, achievement and self-regard.
hypermak wrote: This is the philosophy of someone who is putting hard work and effort and he is almost near top of his profession at 32, if you care to know.
Let's not kid yourself! If you were near the top of your profession, you would have multiple restaurants and a brand that was thriving. You would not be a worker bee. Sure, you are doing honest work, but the top of your profession is reserved for young people who no longer HAVE to work. Everything is on autopilot for them now.

An executive chef might be the top of the worker bee ranks, but if that is all you want to be in life, so be it. But don't call that the top of your profession when OWNERSHIP and the lack of need to work represents that.
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hypermak
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by hypermak »

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Or maybe you are just not smart enough to understand how wealth works and that wealth can be built upon itself. Not everyone is bound by your limitations and skepticism.
Nah, I don't believe in "building wealth" as a profession. You build wealth when (and because) you know your trade, industry or profession very well, you know how to innovate, how to scale, how to survive the downs and - perhaps most importantly - how to learn from failure.

So allow me to be skeptical about the entire movement of "build wealth quick".
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Making it into the top 10% of Americans in terms of income AND wealth is statistically less probable as hitting the lottery. Keep in mind that the top 10% of Americans are top 1% in the world. I was born in the working class so jumping from working, to middle, to upper middle to upper is the result of both intelligence AND hard work. I think your resentment is that I had to work less hard than you are working. That, in and of itself, implies a smarter strategy and smarter deployment of resources. If I were your age working in the culinary field, by now I would be OWNING several restaurants not merely working there. That is the difference between you and me, the intelligent and the average. Sorry that pains you so much to accept.
Where is the resentment? That you probably worked less because you chose a white collar public officer job is a fact. I never brought this up to mock you until you did with my job/industry. You mention "intelligence and hard work". So you should agree that "smart" will get you nowhere unless you have some talent, a lot of passion for what you do and the willingness to put the effort.

What makes you think that, if you were in my industry, by my age you would be "owning" several restaurants? Do you really know one can run, let alone own a restaurants, without decades of experience in the field? Maybe you reason from the POV of the equity investor who deploys his capital on a promising business, much in the same way a smart better puts his money on a promising, potentially winning horse. Even those kinds of investors have to have a deep understanding of the food & hospitality industry, even if they never worked in a restaurant or hotel, and even that expertise takes years to build.

The fact you're even mentioning this as if you were the "intelligent" one and I am the "average" one means that 1) you have no idea about my industry and 2) you just talk based on what you might have picked up from your "get rich quick" gurus: anybody with the right "magic tips" and no industry experience can invest successfully and make lotsa money. LOL this is probably why they introduce themselves as something different everyday: one day they're real estate moguls, the other they know all about technology, or mining, etc.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Since when are political appointees unable to be fired? You're just making up facts to suit your argument and losing further because of it.
Your government job was certainly less "fireable" than a comparable job in the private sector. That is a fact.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
English lesson: Coming in all stripes means they are of all different types and inclinations, not colors. And your thesis here is illogical: People who live according to their achieved wealth are not really successful because they would not have to show it if they were as successful as they thing they are. That strikes me as one of two things, Marxist or class envious. In your case, it might likely be both.
Yes, that's what I meant. I wasn't referring to your skin colour. Different strokes...
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Again, this makes no sense. "Really" successful people (ie. those who don't trigger your pathological envy), don't have ANY interest or desire to show off their success. But then you go backwards and say they "usually" don't. That means you don't even believe what you are writing you are just trying to will it into being when it really just makes no sense. Get a grip on your class envy!
I put "usually" because I can't speak for everyone. I understand that, in the States people have a much greater tendency to show off what they have, if anything because they fear other people's judgment. In Europe, much less. Please don't split the hair, you know what I meant.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Of course you're triggered. You're the only one who gets angry when you interpret things as showing off. The truth is, I THINK I have success because you feel devalued that I do very well for myself and that does not sit well with you. So, as a consequence, you're trying to shame me into not being proud and open about my lifestyle because it hurts your feelings since you have to work in a hotel for the rest of your life. I get it....
I am the only one who is engaging you frontally. Shemp didn't like your posts and attitude and stopped posting. PAG is only posting as his pitiful broken-English alter ego "Spencer" (his choice). I like to engage with you because 1) I have time and 2) I want to improve my written English. You should be grateful that at least one member in here is giving you some of the attention you crave.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
And what, pray tell, do you know know about me that indicates I show off?

-What watches to I own and how many are there?
-What is my current portfolio of properties?
-What vehicle do I drive when in the United States?
-What vehicle do I drive when I am in Europe?
-What is my leisure vehicle of choice, sea vessel, leased aircraft, or luxury/private train car?
-How many incomes streams do I enjoy at the moment?
-How close does my monthly income come to your yearly income as a cook in Manila?
-What is my estate plan?
-What assets do I have in place around the world?
-What is my net worth?
-What brand and style of clothing do I wear most days?
-What about the brand of my favorite daily shoes?
You don't have to go down to those details, they are irrelevant. In fact that's how you like to keep the braggadocio, vague and vacuous. It's much harder to keep the tale consistent when you go down details. This is another typical strategy adopted by the fake gurus: create an aura of importance, authority, success but never bother substantiating it with verifiable facts. You have to be the stuff legends are made of :)
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
None of this stuff you even know so the fact that you are triggered by my showing off things you know nothing about means your pathological envy is IRRATIONAL. This is why I implore you to get counseling. You've got a lot of inner work to do when you are triggered by things you don't know anything about.
Either that, or perhaps my "pathological envy" isn't really "envy". It's just a bunch of logical arguments to call you out on your BS. This is actually one of the better exchanges we had in here. As soon as you get triggered the personal attacks start, the little rational discussion we could have quickly goes south.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Well we have established that your "book" is one of unsound mental health and based in seething envy and lack of actual knowledge so I am not sure your "book" is of any value.
It's what most people go by. Call them all crazy...
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
And cut the crap about different cultures. I first traveled to Italy before you were even born and I have been back since. Italian culture is one of the most ostentatious and "show off" cultures in the world! This is the country that manufactures the most show off cars, boats, fashion in the world and Italians of the upper classes LOVE to show it off!
Some Italians obviously love to show off their boats and Ferraris, their designer clothes and their Montecarlo residences. However, besides the obvious exceptions, most of them created their wealth out of real business work, not some generic "investment knowledge" that comes out of the self-help industry.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
I do understand some of the lower class Italians, and those from the South tend to be secretive about wealth out of self preservation and not wanting to draw predators like the cosa nostra to them. But in the safer and wealthier parts of the country, it is all about passeggiata with the best clothing to show off and sprezzatura to show off one's class level, income, while appearing to not be trying too hard. So you are either from a lower class family or you are lying about Italian culture. It is sad that I seem to have a more accurate picture of that aspect of Italian culture than you do! But then again, you're lying just to try to prove a very stupid point.
Showing off is usually a typical sign of "more money than class", exactly. Most Mafia families are exactly that: people who shot from rural destitution to multi-millionaire status within one generation. They have no class and they naturally chose to show the bling as a way to tell everybody that they are "up there" and "nobody should f*ck with them".

If you know Italy as you think you do, you will know that backbone of Italy isn't the Mafia guys. It's the hard working middle and upper middle class who built their fortune from scratch. You are probably right in that the hard working spirit is more present in the northern regions (especially Veneto, where I hail from) than in the southern. This isn't to be racist or classist, it's a fact.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Cry me a river! Many of our families had to work hard over the last hundred years. If my parents were just smarter than yours about ensuring that their children would NOT have to work so hard to be wealthy, then so be it. Sounds like your family did not do a very good job about teaching you about success and THAT might be your problem too.
My family did exactly the right thing, indeed: they taught me to build my own success, and that's what I have been doing. There are no easy paths, no shortcuts in our industry. You just have to put the work.

I have no idea what your parents did and taught you but I doubt they taught you that you could become rich without putting the hard work. Again, they way you brag, you convey a very different message.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
So not only are you a true success guru, but you are an expert at US culture as well? You sound more stupid than a Downs Syndrome mute. There is no single US culture you moron. There are people who are showy as in Miami and LA, and their are people who extremely understated in their success like mid-westerners. Not everything in America is like what you see on TV and in the Hollywood films you know. So you don't know what you're talking about.
I can judge based on what I have seen and heard. You fit the stereotype of the "fake till you make it" American to ridiculous perfection. It's precisely because I know there are a lot of self-made American who never had to show off, that I can call you on your fakery. You must be the dumb one if you think other people are dumb enough to believe you.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Ah, you're hard on me? Don't be silly. You don't have the ability to be hard on someone like me. Unless you are the tax authority, a lawsuit, or my accountant, you are recreational banter, nothing more. Don't flatter yourself here.
You are entertainment value too, in case you didn't notice :D
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Oh, so now it goes from I was lying about fake wealth and girls, and now it might be true? Well, make up your mind here.
I am not saying that you never were in Ukraine, or never use your pension money to travel. You're just not the King of the Jungle you think you are. Anybody with a retirement income and enough free time can travel to Kiev and pay some dollar to be entertained by girls. What's so special about it, or worth boasting?
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Again, if I am bragging about the things I have, answer the questions above that we both know you can't. You just hate the IDEA of my being successful and you'd like me to shut up about it. Sorry, there are members of the forum who I actually want to be successful and I interact with them on advice all the time in the private messages. The fact that I no longer do that openly anymore is because the forum has too many toxic personalities who I would never assist with such tidbits.
Sure, I will answer you.

I don't hate anybody here, include you. I am not going to hatch the perfect plan to get someone to skean into your hotel room in Kiev with a silenced gun and end you. It's purely entertainment, of the dialectic type. My lack of respect is towards your delusion of grandeur, not the fact that you go to Kiev or get laid with prostitutes or the odd college girl.

Of course you know a thing or two about dating in Kiev and you're probably a good source of information about it. If I wanted to know about thgose specific things I would probably PM you. It's when you think you are the successful entrepreneur who can offer advice about life, investment, "being a man" and more, that you basically become your own parody.

Like I said so many times, that's where one can find you pitiful and just ignore you, openly ridicule you or, the third way, engage you in a serious way, even at the cost of being submerged by personal insults, as you often do.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Well Eureka! You've made at least some progress on this thread! You went from "The only way to success is to....," to now, "There are multiple ways to achieve success." Part of this is just you're typing things just to try to cause controversy and discord. I know that. But if the stupid stuff you've been writing for weeks is not really true, perhaps there might be some glimmer of hope for you yet.
Where's the contradiction, sorry? I said there are multiple ways to achieve success but they all involve talent, hard work, a bit of luck, and humility. Applying your strategy of becoming sucessful out of some random "investment strategies" pulled out of fake gurus, that's not one, unless you are one of such fake gurus, of course :)
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
I have every reason to be proud of myself and I truly am. Snide remarks and "haters" have been part of my journey for DECADES. That just comes with the territory. Surely some, young, anonymous, Italian cook in Manila could never make a dent in my armor of pride, achievement and self-regard.
I feel almost embarrassed to say that "the emperor is naked", then. Your invincible "armor of pride, achievement and self-regard" is built on a paper castle of delusions that can be easily torn down by anyone with some intellectual honesty and enough time and desire to talk to you.

This is the most pitiful aspect of you and the likes of you: they get so convinced (self-deceived) that they are 100% right on everything, they will never bother stepping down their ivory towers and check out, you know, reality. Well, stay where you are, you may be arguing with me every now and then but you're definitely safer and happier that way.

If you want me to leave you alone on your paper castle, be my guest. Just don't provoke me and I will leave you alone.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 12th, 2020, 11:53 pm
Let's not kid yourself! If you were near the top of your profession, you would have multiple restaurants and a brand that was thriving. You would not be a worker bee. Sure, you are doing honest work, but the top of your profession is reserved for young people who no longer HAVE to work. Everything is on autopilot for them now.

An executive chef might be the top of the worker bee ranks, but if that is all you want to be in life, so be it. But don't call that the top of your profession when OWNERSHIP and the lack of need to work represents that.
You don't know what you are talking about. Ownership doesn't mean much in my industry. Perhaps the world of art is something closer to your understanding. Do you really think a renowned painter cares much about who owns the gallery or auction house he used to sell his art? A culinary artist is usually more interested in building his brand identity first, then maybe - but optionally - running the operations of the franchises bearing their name/brand.

You might have heard of Robert De Niro has lost millions of dollars from his ownership of the Nobu restaurant chain (high-end Japanese teppanyaki). Do you know how much the chef behind the project, Matsuhisa Nobu, lost? Very close to zero.

Owning a F&H franchise is an extremely complex thing. It's a very volatile market, very much exposed to downturns like the one we are experiencing now.

If you care to know because you want to know, not to insult anyone, I can PM you about some of the realities of my industry. Who knows, you might have some spare cash to invest :)
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

hypermak wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 1:19 am
Nah, I don't believe in "building wealth" as a profession. You build wealth when (and because) you know your trade, industry or profession very well, you know how to innovate, how to scale, how to survive the downs and - perhaps most importantly - how to learn from failure.
Ah, no. Who do you think finances those trades, innovators, and on the ground business people, elves from the forest?

And since when did the worlds of investment finance and real estate become excluded from the categories of profession and industry? I guess the billionaires Warren Buffett, John Rogers, and George Soros are not professionals by your book. I'm sure they care as much about your view on the subject as I do.
hypermak wrote: So allow me to be skeptical about the entire movement of "build wealth quick".
I never mentioned anything about "quick." That is your addition to try to fix your failed argument. But, in fact, there are ways to build wealth quickly. They tend to be high risk and banks often will not finance them. I know people who purchase huge buildings and double and triple their money in about a year from refurbishment and resale. So you are speaking on matters you don't know anything about.
hypermak wrote: Your government job was certainly less "fireable" than a comparable job in the private sector. That is a fact.
It's a fact in your mind only, but it is not true. Also, I did not have a job. I had a series of official appointments. There is a difference you know.
hypermak wrote: I am the only one who is engaging you frontally. Shemp didn't like your posts and attitude and stopped posting.
You mean the Shemp who got angry at me when I informed him that he could have been paying a few hundred dollars to secure Ukrainian residency when he was paying THOUSANDS? And you mean the Shemp who pays a literal prostitute THOUSANDS of dollars a month as a live-in wife and got triggered when he learned that I provide a few hundred dollars to students and on occasion take them to the doctor or dentist? You and he have a lot in common actually. You lost your minds when you find out that there are better and smarter ways to do things than the way you've been doing them. He resorted to the whole "You're lying" narrative that you fall into. Makes me smile when you guys do that!


hypermak wrote: Some Italians obviously love to show off their boats and Ferraris, their designer clothes and their Montecarlo residences. However, besides the obvious exceptions, most of them created their wealth out of real business work, not some generic "investment knowledge" that comes out of the self-help industry.
So then it's good to see that you know you're wrong again. You mentioned that Italians are not culturally showy, and now you backtracked because I know more than you think about Italian culture.


hypermak wrote: My family did exactly the right thing, indeed: they taught me to build my own success, and that's what I have been doing. There are no easy paths, no shortcuts in our industry. You just have to put the work.
What are you talking about? You don't even have any success to speak of other than your hotel job.
hypermak wrote: I can judge based on what I have seen and heard. You fit the stereotype of the "fake till you make it" American to ridiculous perfection. It's precisely because I know there are a lot of self-made American who never had to show off, that I can call you on your fakery. You must be the dumb one if you think other people are dumb enough to believe you.
And what exactly am I faking? This should be good.....
hypermak wrote: I am not saying that you never were in Ukraine, or never use your pension money to travel. You're just not the King of the Jungle you think you are. Anybody with a retirement income and enough free time can travel to Kiev and pay some dollar to be entertained by girls. What's so special about it, or worth boasting?
You seem fixated on Ukraine. I do go to many other countries you know! And to answer your question, I love my lifestyle very much and I think most people in the world can only DREAM of living around the world in the matter I do. I am extremely pleased that I don't have to work in a hotel kitchen and try to make that lifestyle seem more desirable than living to enjoy life as one wishes.
hypermak wrote: Of course you know a thing or two about dating in Kiev and you're probably a good source of information about it. If I wanted to know about thgose specific things I would probably PM you. It's when you think you are the successful entrepreneur who can offer advice about life, investment, "being a man" and more, that you basically become your own parody.
People PM me all the time for advice on those things. How often do they seek you out for such advice? Hmmmm.....

hypermak wrote: I feel almost embarrassed to say that "the emperor is naked", then. Your invincible "armor of pride, achievement and self-regard" is built on a paper castle of delusions that can be easily torn down by anyone with some intellectual honesty and enough time and desire to talk to you.
I think you mean the "The Emperor has no clothes." But to correct you, if you tried to tear down my paper castle, you failed miserably because these exchanges only serve to remind me of just how good I have it in life. Sorry.....
hypermak wrote: If you want me to leave you alone on your paper castle, be my guest. Just don't provoke me and I will leave you alone.
And miss out of the fun of making you swipe at me like a frustrated kitten from below? You must be kidding! :lol:
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by hypermak »

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
Ah, no. Who do you think finances those trades, innovators, and on the ground business people, elves from the forest?

And since when did the worlds of investment finance and real estate become excluded from the categories of profession and industry? I guess the billionaires Warren Buffett, John Rogers, and George Soros are not professionals by your book. I'm sure they care as much about your view on the subject as I do.
Banks and investors will pick the tab, as they always did. Finance is an industry of its own. I am referring to people with no prior trading, investment or banking experience who can convince themselves (or "get" convinced) that they can make a lot of money in just a few months/years, thanks to a secret recipe contained in a series of books or courses.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
I never mentioned anything about "quick." That is your addition to try to fix your failed argument. But, in fact, there are ways to build wealth quickly. They tend to be high risk and banks often will not finance them. I know people who purchase huge buildings and double and triple their money in about a year from refurbishment and resale. So you are speaking on matters you don't know anything about.
I am not referring to you. The whole original reply was referring to the phoney success gurus. You actually use some of their rethoric, which makes me wonder how genuine your money-making skills are, but obviously I know nothing about the real you and can't judge.

Agree about risk but if you consider the chances of losing money quickly are higher than those of making it quickly, it's not a proposition that everybody would do. Taking risk is a legitimate choice. The important thing is that people are made fully aware of the magnitude of the risks involved. Much of the "get rich quick" industry hinges on the idea that even the average Joe, a humble white collar, a housewife, a kid on a minimum wage job, can make a lot of money with no risk. That's what I am up against, in my argument.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
It's a fact in your mind only, but it is not true. Also, I did not have a job. I had a series of official appointments. There is a difference you know.
Official appointments, like an ambassador?
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
You mean the Shemp who got angry at me when I informed him that he could have been paying a few hundred dollars to secure Ukrainian residency when he was paying THOUSANDS? And you mean the Shemp who pays a literal prostitute THOUSANDS of dollars a month as a live-in wife and got triggered when he learned that I provide a few hundred dollars to students and on occasion take them to the doctor or dentist? You and he have a lot in common actually. You lost your minds when you find out that there are better and smarter ways to do things than the way you've been doing them. He resorted to the whole "You're lying" narrative that you fall into. Makes me smile when you guys do that!
Hmm...so another one in your long list of "haters". I guess it'll never occur to you that your stories are actually quite hard to believe, not without some hard evidence. This is an anonymous forum and it's your right not to disclose anything to substantiate your narrative. At the same time, everybody has a right to be skeptical, especially if what you say doesn't tally up with the reality of modern dating.

If a "gorgeous college student", as you call them, were to be amenable to offering their companionship/sex for a few hundred dollars a month, you really think they wouldn't be snapped up by some wealthy local man, perhaps someone from Russia or other Baltic state, or even Turkey? The list is pretty long.

You need to understand that banging on the same drum and calling everyone who doesn't believe you a "hater" doesn't make your stories more credible, nor improves everybody's perception of you as a charismatic, confident man.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
So then it's good to see that you know you're wrong again. You mentioned that Italians are not culturally showy, and now you backtracked because I know more than you think about Italian culture.
I clarified my thought in the following paragraph. There is a difference between showing class and showing off. Most of us can tell when someone has more money than class. The really wealthy entrepreneurs and financiers are the last people to show off their fancy villas, their custom cars, their designer wardrobes and their limited edition Rolexes. I think this happens everywhere though, not just in Italy.

In short, we Italians love to show our ability to choose and enjoy the beautiful, but the "beautiful" doesn't always coincide with the flashier or most expensive thing possible. We leave the bling to the "arricchiti", people who got plenty of money often via illicit activities and forgot to get an education, or an etiquette, or both.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
What are you talking about? You don't even have any success to speak of other than your hotel job.
Success is being happy with what you've got and confident that you are working in the right direction to achieve more, over time. What's so wrong with this?

I don't think I am faring that bad, compared to the average in my profession. But that's the thing, you tend to use parameters that are sky-high. If you need to compare me to celebrity chefs or the owners of the Hilton or Accor group, shouldn't you compare yourself to the President of the US, or the Secretary of State? What's even the point of this?
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
And what exactly am I faking? This should be good.....
You tell us :)
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
You seem fixated on Ukraine. I do go to many other countries you know! And to answer your question, I love my lifestyle very much and I think most people in the world can only DREAM of living around the world in the matter I do. I am extremely pleased that I don't have to work in a hotel kitchen and try to make that lifestyle seem more desirable than living to enjoy life as one wishes.
This sets us back to the same old argument, that you're a privileged member of society because you got into an early retirement and everybody else is a miserable loser trapped in a lifestyle of indentured servitude.

It was your choice to be completely independent from any family ties, which is the sole reason you have a pension to fully enjoy. At the same time, you should respect those who make the choice of working hard to support a family, who are still driving to an office or paying off their mortgages at 50. The two lifestyles don't deny each other. I personally respect the latter kind of person but, again, you're not to blame for the choices you made.

Once again, what annoys me is the arrogance with which you just have to slap us in the face, that you're the quintessential viveur. In fact, the more you do it, the less credible this entire narrative sounds like. But then we're back to square one...
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
People PM me all the time for advice on those things. How often do they seek you out for such advice? Hmmmm.....
LOL I am not an authority on dating, and never wants to be. I prefer giving advice on a menu to a young and promising station chef, especially in person, since everything in my profession requires "presence".
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
I think you mean the "The Emperor has no clothes." But to correct you, if you tried to tear down my paper castle, you failed miserably because these exchanges only serve to remind me of just how good I have it in life. Sorry.....
Splitting hair as usual. I don't even need to do much, you just love to reduce your credibility to crumbles at every new post of yours. You do it all by yourself.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
And miss out of the fun of making you swipe at me like a frustrated kitten from below? You must be kidding! :lol:
A real tiger, aren't we? :)
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Contrarian Expatriate
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 5415
Joined: December 2nd, 2009, 9:57 pm

Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

hypermak wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 8:48 am
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
Ah, no. Who do you think finances those trades, innovators, and on the ground business people, elves from the forest?

And since when did the worlds of investment finance and real estate become excluded from the categories of profession and industry? I guess the billionaires Warren Buffett, John Rogers, and George Soros are not professionals by your book. I'm sure they care as much about your view on the subject as I do.
Banks and investors will pick the tab, as they always did. Finance is an industry of its own. I am referring to people with no prior trading, investment or banking experience who can convince themselves (or "get" convinced) that they can make a lot of money in just a few months/years, thanks to a secret recipe contained in a series of books or courses.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
I never mentioned anything about "quick." That is your addition to try to fix your failed argument. But, in fact, there are ways to build wealth quickly. They tend to be high risk and banks often will not finance them. I know people who purchase huge buildings and double and triple their money in about a year from refurbishment and resale. So you are speaking on matters you don't know anything about.
I am not referring to you. The whole original reply was referring to the phoney success gurus. You actually use some of their rethoric, which makes me wonder how genuine your money-making skills are, but obviously I know nothing about the real you and can't judge.

Agree about risk but if you consider the chances of losing money quickly are higher than those of making it quickly, it's not a proposition that everybody would do. Taking risk is a legitimate choice. The important thing is that people are made fully aware of the magnitude of the risks involved. Much of the "get rich quick" industry hinges on the idea that even the average Joe, a humble white collar, a housewife, a kid on a minimum wage job, can make a lot of money with no risk. That's what I am up against, in my argument.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
It's a fact in your mind only, but it is not true. Also, I did not have a job. I had a series of official appointments. There is a difference you know.
Official appointments, like an ambassador?
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
You mean the Shemp who got angry at me when I informed him that he could have been paying a few hundred dollars to secure Ukrainian residency when he was paying THOUSANDS? And you mean the Shemp who pays a literal prostitute THOUSANDS of dollars a month as a live-in wife and got triggered when he learned that I provide a few hundred dollars to students and on occasion take them to the doctor or dentist? You and he have a lot in common actually. You lost your minds when you find out that there are better and smarter ways to do things than the way you've been doing them. He resorted to the whole "You're lying" narrative that you fall into. Makes me smile when you guys do that!
Hmm...so another one in your long list of "haters". I guess it'll never occur to you that your stories are actually quite hard to believe, not without some hard evidence. This is an anonymous forum and it's your right not to disclose anything to substantiate your narrative. At the same time, everybody has a right to be skeptical, especially if what you say doesn't tally up with the reality of modern dating.

If a "gorgeous college student", as you call them, were to be amenable to offering their companionship/sex for a few hundred dollars a month, you really think they wouldn't be snapped up by some wealthy local man, perhaps someone from Russia or other Baltic state, or even Turkey? The list is pretty long.

You need to understand that banging on the same drum and calling everyone who doesn't believe you a "hater" doesn't make your stories more credible, nor improves everybody's perception of you as a charismatic, confident man.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
So then it's good to see that you know you're wrong again. You mentioned that Italians are not culturally showy, and now you backtracked because I know more than you think about Italian culture.
I clarified my thought in the following paragraph. There is a difference between showing class and showing off. Most of us can tell when someone has more money than class. The really wealthy entrepreneurs and financiers are the last people to show off their fancy villas, their custom cars, their designer wardrobes and their limited edition Rolexes. I think this happens everywhere though, not just in Italy.

In short, we Italians love to show our ability to choose and enjoy the beautiful, but the "beautiful" doesn't always coincide with the flashier or most expensive thing possible. We leave the bling to the "arricchiti", people who got plenty of money often via illicit activities and forgot to get an education, or an etiquette, or both.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
What are you talking about? You don't even have any success to speak of other than your hotel job.
Success is being happy with what you've got and confident that you are working in the right direction to achieve more, over time. What's so wrong with this?

I don't think I am faring that bad, compared to the average in my profession. But that's the thing, you tend to use parameters that are sky-high. If you need to compare me to celebrity chefs or the owners of the Hilton or Accor group, shouldn't you compare yourself to the President of the US, or the Secretary of State? What's even the point of this?
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
And what exactly am I faking? This should be good.....
You tell us :)
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
You seem fixated on Ukraine. I do go to many other countries you know! And to answer your question, I love my lifestyle very much and I think most people in the world can only DREAM of living around the world in the matter I do. I am extremely pleased that I don't have to work in a hotel kitchen and try to make that lifestyle seem more desirable than living to enjoy life as one wishes.
This sets us back to the same old argument, that you're a privileged member of society because you got into an early retirement and everybody else is a miserable loser trapped in a lifestyle of indentured servitude.

It was your choice to be completely independent from any family ties, which is the sole reason you have a pension to fully enjoy. At the same time, you should respect those who make the choice of working hard to support a family, who are still driving to an office or paying off their mortgages at 50. The two lifestyles don't deny each other. I personally respect the latter kind of person but, again, you're not to blame for the choices you made.

Once again, what annoys me is the arrogance with which you just have to slap us in the face, that you're the quintessential viveur. In fact, the more you do it, the less credible this entire narrative sounds like. But then we're back to square one...
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
People PM me all the time for advice on those things. How often do they seek you out for such advice? Hmmmm.....
LOL I am not an authority on dating, and never wants to be. I prefer giving advice on a menu to a young and promising station chef, especially in person, since everything in my profession requires "presence".
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
I think you mean the "The Emperor has no clothes." But to correct you, if you tried to tear down my paper castle, you failed miserably because these exchanges only serve to remind me of just how good I have it in life. Sorry.....
Splitting hair as usual. I don't even need to do much, you just love to reduce your credibility to crumbles at every new post of yours. You do it all by yourself.
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
July 13th, 2020, 4:08 am
And miss out of the fun of making you swipe at me like a frustrated kitten from below? You must be kidding! :lol:
A real tiger, aren't we? :)
I don't know how I will ever get thru life now. @Hypermak doesn't think I am "credible" enough. Oh woe is me!

Newsflash: The advice I post is for people who want to enhance their lives and their experiences in like manner. If none of it applies to you, who cares? Not everyone wants to work like a slave for some corporate entity all their lives. Some people actually want more than you want for yourself.

And for a guy who is so intent on getting married and raising children? Why have you not done so? You are already 30 and if that is your goal, you would have been married by now. So what is the problem? Is it you simply can't find anyone to accept you, or women of family quality are not interested in you? Your attitude is the reason in my book. You'll never find a quality wife with your passive aggressive, resentful, and vexatious personality issues. That does not even touch the problem of what type of father you would be to any children!
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Spencer
Junior Poster
Posts: 886
Joined: March 30th, 2020, 1:27 pm
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Re: Why Average People HATE People Achieving Success.

Post by Spencer »

Public duende get life because now you not have...why you let lo class merica black ghetoman have free life instide your mind and heart spend many many hours dumwit debate for retardeds....your kitchen not need you hoy hoy hoy....go away back with ktchen or girl happy aboard no need your poluting toxants for make dumwit postings waste of space time go away arguing retardeds = retardeds

contartian even you have big dollars in hands you never hi class ever your family still what is which is from the slavings so also go away back to sugar baby if really you have why waste your life time on fake chef reincarnate from public duende if he not important for you
"Close mind genus more dangrous than 10,000 dumwits" - Spencer

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

"Wiseton is a very dynamic individual, what most would call a genius. He's started a movement, and only genius types can do such a thing." - Boycottamericanwomen
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