Economic Collapse - The Greed of Black Friday

[ErikHeaven]

I believe China is the next superpower. They are telling their citizens to buy silver and gold. Our government is not. They keep pushing The Full Faith and Credit nonsense as if anybody is going to give us credit anymore.

[Think Different]

My comment about the "ease" of buying and holding gold bullion in the US, was based on my experience in Europe, where you just walk into any bank, give them your credit/debit card and they charge the price of the bullion and give you the bullion/silver coins/whatever else you want in your hand, with the certificates. As for carrying it around-that would be dumb. You need to put it in a safe, either in your home, in your safe deposit box at the bank, etc. It's a hedge against falling currency. Why not diamonds? That I don't know much about, but I've heard there's a whole problem with "blood diamonds", so maybe someone else knows more about. Yes, you can leave the US with up to $10,000 in precious metals or cash, but you will get pulled aside and harassed. Are you going to rely on the TSA agent to know the going rate of an ounce of gold and whether the total exceeds $10K? Getting INTO another country with precious metals can be problematic, though, so you'd have to check on that carefully. It might get confiscated. I can't remember if I read about that being a problem in Mexico or some other country down south. Since I'm moving to Europe anyway, I'm just waiting to buy it there, so I don't have to hassle with the US border restrictions. Also, another option is numismatic gold (collectors coins), but I'm not convinced that's reliable, unless you really know your stuff.

By the way, I do think China and many other countries are very concerned about the collapsing dollar, as you can see by this article in today's paper:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42662970

Many countries have been warning the US government about their ridiculous debt. If the dollar becomes too unstable or falls too far in value, those countries like Japan and China will start dumping their Treasuries notes, in hopes of at least getting their initial investment back, interest be damned. That will start a downward spiral for the dollar that will be hard to recover from.

[Disillusioned_American]

Update: 2011 Black Friday turns violent, as usual. Just get a load of these goddamn idiots, fighting over a kitchen appliance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYeDRKB1 ... r_embedded

I'm sure there's plenty more footage out there of today's savagery, but you get the idea. This took place in AR, home of Wal*Mart; how fitting.

You never even hear about Christopher Columbus around the Thanksgiving holiday these days, not than I nor most people here care much about him or his achievements, anyhow. Instead though, we are bombarded by dumb-ass commercials for "black friday" savings and the release of some new video f***ing game for the assholes to fight over. I didn't even celebrate the holiday yesterday. My roomate was nice enough to bring me a plate of food home from her family. I don't really give a shit about this American holiday anymore, though. I don't usually like turkey much, unless the bird is smoked and/or fried, and well seasoned.

I don't want to live in this dumb-ass f***ing country any longer!

[Repatriate]

This lady decided to pepper spray people in her way so she could buy a cheap xbox. Then some jackboot police sprayed another group of shoppers for being "rowdy." Then in another incident some shoppers got robbed by thug trash and shot.

There are some truly vile individuals in the U.S. and it's amazing what sort of unrestrained public behavior goes on. I've never heard of things like this happening in Asia over consumer goods. People might wait in line but outright fist fights and use of deadly weapons for cheap electronics is something that is unheard of.


http://news.yahoo.com/battle-black-frid ... 58707.html

[Contrarian Expatriate]

What I would really do, though, is spread my money across multiple currencies in multiple countries. Have bank accounts and Paypal accounts in many countries and currencies. Electronic currencies in many locations is a lot safer than a bag of gold someone can easily take from you.

That is my approach too. However, just to keep everyone out of jail, American citizens now have to annually disclose foreign bank accounts that are held during the year. If the information is NOT reported, you stand to lose the money in the banks and face felony charges.

All this was enacted a few years ago in response to tax cheats who hid their money offshore. It is not a big deal so long as you file the FBAR form before June of each year. I do so and I don't have any problems with my foreign bank accounts.

[polya]

In a nutshell, Paper money is based on debt & created by banks through fractional reserve banking. While Gold & silver is limited in supply so can't be created out of nothing by banks. This is why you need to buy & take possession of metals.

[Rock]

You can also leave the country with it and its not counted as money. Google it. Its not considered a monetary instrument. Good way to leave the country with real wealth.

Absolutely not true. It (gold) is treated as money by customs authorities in most countries including the US. If you physically bring into the US gold + other monetary instruments with total market value in excess of US$10,000 at any one time, you must declare it. As for silver, its going to be extremely bulky if you try to move a large amount (say over US$100K). And many governments (US might too, don't test them) will confiscate it and may put you in jail if you try to sneak it in or out.

[Rock]

What I would really do, though, is spread my money across multiple currencies in multiple countries. Have bank accounts and Paypal accounts in many countries and currencies. Electronic currencies in many locations is a lot safer than a bag of gold someone can easily take from you.

That is my approach too. However, just to keep everyone out of jail, American citizens now have to annually disclose foreign bank accounts that are held during the year. If the information is NOT reported, you stand to lose the money in the banks and face felony charges.

All this was enacted a few years ago in response to tax cheats who hid their money offshore. It is not a big deal so long as you file the FBAR form before June of each year. I do so and I don't have any problems with my foreign bank accounts.

Things are happening which making it increasingly difficult to be a US citizen overseas.

FATCA has been passed and US hopes to have it largely implemented with foreign banks by sometime in 2013. It requires a huge amount of extra paperwork, hassle, and responsibility by foreign institutions which continue to accept US clients. So many are shutting their doors to Americans. Many Swiss banks including the big ones kicked-out their Americans clients 2-3 years ago. Many banks in other European countries plus banks in other parts of the world have or are in the process of following suit. Even non-bank financial institutions are changing their rules. For example, I just got notified last week by my broker in Singapore (Saxo Capital Markets) that I was no longer allowed to hold any cash products - stocks, bonds, or funds - and had to liquidate all my holdings of these instruments within a few days. From now on, I can only hold CFDs, options, and futures with them.

FATCA will also require US citizens to include FBAR like forms with their tax returns if their foreign accounts exceed US$50,000. That means you will have to pretty much provide your foreign net worth info directly to IRS, not just Treasury. They may require info on real estate and assets held in safety deposit boxes as well. So far, FBARs only require info on financial accounts, not real estate or money held physically.

Wanna escape all this? Your only option is to secure a second nationality and then renounce you US citizenship. If you make much more thn US$120K per year and/or have over US$2 mn worth of assets in your name, the IRS will try to get you to pay a steep exit tax after you renounce. Otherwise you should be fine.

For those of you who hate the US so much, put your money where you mouth is - move overseas and sever ties to this nation.

[Disillusioned_American]

Sorry about that bullshit. I have been trying to quit smoking, and I relapsed because of how f***ed in the head I was feeling when I wrote that shit. f**k it. Better to be addicted to nicotine then to get myself into some bullshit and never be able to leave this hellhole. I know some here might not understand because most of you seem like fitness gurus who never smoke/drink. Again, sorry guys.

[Rock]

I swear I am going to f***ing explode if I have to live in this rotten f***ing nation for much longer!

Pls. see the last sentence of my last post in this thread. Stop talkin and start walkin.