Alimony and Child Support are VOLUNTARY payments

[PeterAndrewNolan]

It is VERY easy to not volunteer.

Here is how I did it. I sent a BILL for the Court ORDER that was 10x the ORDER. Never heard from them again.

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/aus ... fault.aspx

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Yeah. whatever, and now you can't even get a visitor's visa for the Republic of Eire, and you are just about to be deported back to Australia ... WINNING!

Gents,
some more lies from Hector. All those of you in Australia ought to be writing to Julia Gillard and asking why your tax dollars are being spent like this.

[travelingjohn69]

It is VERY easy to not volunteer.

Here is how I did it. I sent a BILL for the Court ORDER that was 10x the ORDER. Never heard from them again.

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/aus ... fault.aspx

I guess things are different here in America. Here, they send you to jail. One thing is for sure. I'm tired of seeing us guys get screwed by the system. It is sad that we have a system in place that pits a man against his family for the sake of the courts making a profit.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

I guess things are different here in America. Here, they send you to jail. One thing is for sure. I'm tired of seeing us guys get screwed by the system. It is sad that we have a system in place that pits a man against his family for the sake of the courts making a profit.

travelingjohn69,
actually no. They are the same. If you refuse to pay alimony or child support LAWFULLY then any jailing is UNLAWFUL.

I have posted that link to various mens sites...they will not attempt it themselves..therefore they DESERVE to pay child support and alimony because they are GUTLESS COWARDS.

In Ireland MANY men are jailed for not paying what I refused to pay. This is because they are GUTLESS COWARDS and allow themselves to be UNLAWFULLY JAILED.

[Jester]

I was about to jump on Peter for trying to involve men in his lifetime-of -legal-hassles cult....

Brave oh yes but the very definition of foolhardy...

Fine for him but quit using this site to recruit others...

Then I see Hector's ridiculous irrelevant ad-hominem attack - based apparently on information from government sources.

I can't believe Hector is still allowed on this site at all.

What does he contribute?

[PeterAndrewNolan]

I was about to jump on Peter for trying to involve men in his lifetime-of -legal-hassles cult....
Brave oh yes but the very definition of foolhardy...

Jester,
in case you didn't notice TENS OF MILLIONS of men have a lifetime of legal hassles with the family courts...ALL without my help or involvement.

What I am putting in front of them is the way OUT of those hassles.

The Irish Family Court judge has not contacted me since I sent him that Bill. My family law lawyer tells me that their demand for EUR150,000 is still valid and in normal circumstances would be collected on or I would be subject to a court order to jail me until I agreed to pay.

Ergo. I have PROVEN that if you bill for a court order then the bill is valid.

Similarly. In my german court case recently the judge threatened to send me a large court order for staying in germany more than 90 days. That meeting was on 18th of april. Today is the 2nd of may. No court order has turned up. I told the judge that if he issued a court order then I would bill him 10x the amount. I sent him this link to show him I knew how to do this. Whola. NO COURT ORDER from the germans either.

I guess they are thinking about their next move.

And why do you characterise taking on criminals in guvment as "foolhardy"?

Would you call the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy "foolhardy"?

Or would you call them heros who were willing to risk their lived for the benefit of others?

As far as I am concerned those men were heros who fought and died for what they believed in. They earned my respect. They earned yours too.

Men today are such gutless whimps that to take on their OWN guvment is too scary for them. Schoolgirls.

My step grand father was a digger in WW II. He told me of some of the things he saw. He did not want to tell me but he wanted to get the message across. When my mum and dad were but kids his brothers fought and died next to him to keep children like my mum and dad safe. He told me that if it would ever be my turn to defend children like my mum and dad were defended in WW II then I must not dis-homour his fallen comrades by shirking my duty.

I see EVERY man who is not willing to stand up to his OWN GUVMENT and denounce criminals and take whatever comes as a COWARD who is DIS-HONOURING those brave men who fought WW II.

If you would like to make a case as to why such men should NOT be called COWARDS when compared to the men who stormed the beaches of normandy and fought clear across europe or clear across the pacific?

THEN MAKE YOUR CASE.

Do not just throw around attempted insults like "foolhardy".


Jester....

When I was heading out of the office in London to go and do that court meeting I had confided in a couple of close colleagues that it was my belief I would be, at best, jailed for some considerable period, or, at worst, killed. I went to sleep on the night of 26th November 2009 quite ready to be killed in my sleep. I was very proud of my achievement. My best mate called me and told me he was honoured to have a man with my guts call him a friend.

One of my colleagues took me aside and said "what you are doing is one of the bravest things I have ever heard of".

I corrected him and told him how my step grandfather and his mates fought across the pacific islands. I said what I was doing was not a patch on those men. I was going into my battle in an air conditioned office not a jungle 5,000 kms from home. He thought about it for a minute and nodded. He got it.

Jester.

I can look myself in the mirror knowing that when I die I will be able to stand next to my step-grandfather and that he will congratulate me for what I have done and thank me for honouring his mates sacrifice. Be that tomorrow or in many years time. When I die I will stand among the greatest men who ever lived in Australia as a peer. I will be one of them. Why? Because I was ready to do what they did. I followed their lead. I took on the enemy and did not flinche.

You will not be welcome among such men because of your cowardice. Men like me do not like to associate with men who are cowards...even after our deaths.

And the problem you have is that you know in your heart you are afraid of your guvment and you are too much of a coward to do what I am doing. So rather than face your cowardice and admit it you attempt to slander and slur me.

Such efforts are ludicrous. I am prepared to die for this effort. Are you?

[momopi]

Alimony was unnecessary back when fathers provided their daughters with dowry, to guarentee her financial security at the husband's household. Should she divorce from her husband, the dowry is her family's property and she takes it with her.

The Code of Hammurabi was one of the earlist examples of code of laws that survived on stone and clay tablets from almost 4,000 years ago. On it were specific laws governing dowry. If the husband died, the wife is enttied to her dowry If the wife died, her dowry goes to her biological children and not her husband or children by other wives. If she had died childless, then the dowry goes back to her father's household. The husband was only required to pay alimony if he initiated the divorce. If it was the wife who wanted the divorce, then she is only entited to her dowry and not alimony from her husband.

Today in our consumerist society where people spend themselves into debt, the only expectation from the bride's family is for them to pay for the wedding, and even that is iffy. The bride is married into the groom's family with her student loan debts, car debt, credit card debt, etc. Only a minority of parents who are well-off (or worked hard to save) can afford to help their newly married kids to buy a house (or a car if poorer). The wedding industry itself is a long line of folks with their hands out -- and this include Churches that make "donations" mandatory.

For young couples starting out, it’s really financially irresponsible for the parents to demand (and pay for) a lavish wedding. The money is better given to the young couple to buy a reliable car, down payment on their first home, or cash savings.

[Jester]

The Code of Hammurabi was one of the earlist examples of code of laws that survived on stone and clay tablets from almost 4,000 years ago. On it were specific laws governing dowry. If the husband died, the wife is enttied to her dowry If the wife died, her dowry goes to her biological children and not her husband or children by other wives. If she had died childless, then the dowry goes back to her father's household. The husband was only required to pay alimony if he initiated the divorce. If it was the wife who wanted the divorce, then she is only entited to her dowry and not alimony from her husband.

Today in our consumerist society where people spend themselves into debt, the only expectation from the bride's family is for them to pay for the wedding, and even that is iffy. The bride is married into the groom's family with her student loan debts, car debt, credit card debt, etc. Only a minority of parents who are well-off (or worked hard to save) can afford to help their newly married kids to buy a house (or a car if poorer). The wedding industry itself is a long line of folks with their hands out -- and this include Churches that make "donations" mandatory.

For young couples starting out, it’s really financially irresponsible for the parents to demand (and pay for) a lavish wedding. The money is better given to the young couple to buy a reliable car, down payment on their first home, or cash savings.

Very interesting. I try to learn how things used to work - when they worked.

Among Armenians, like some others in the Caucasus and Middle East I think, we follow a different pattern. We pay a dowry to the wife's father. It seems normal to me.

No drowning of female newborns among us!

Old Testament teaches the same thing - and apparently the custom pre-dated Judaism.

I really agree about weddings, too. Old Testament wedding was just a party followed by a wedding night. It seems to me whatever kind of party you would normally throw - at your best - should be enough. A keg of beer and steaks, whatever.

Btw, not to hijack the thread, but since it's about Child Support and Alimony....

I'm against alimony, let the woman stay by her man (and keep him happy) if she wants money... But re child support, I realize most will not agree with me (and Peter) about doing away with state-ordered child support. So what about the Moslem plan? As a Christian I am suspicious of it, since the OT says to give the woman the kids (no alimony, no CS) if you kick her out. But the Moslems keep custody with the man. Though no fan of Islam, this just seems to work so much better in my mind. My wife would have never bitched so much if she knew she could lose the kids. And male philanderers will not want to be stuck with raising kids on their own. It seems to me that it would encourage better behavior from both sides. Plus a divorced man with kids will attract young women like flies to honey, and the divorced single mom with no kids in tow would also have a better chance at remarriage. Basically this would get the courts and the state out of the picture.

Do you have any thoughts on this idea?

[Jester]

Jester,
in case you didn't notice TENS OF MILLIONS of men have a lifetime of legal hassles with the family courts...ALL without my help or involvement.

What I am putting in front of them is the way OUT of those hassles.

The Irish Family Court judge has not contacted me since I sent him that Bill.....

Similarly. In my german court case recently the judge threatened to send me a large court order..... That meeting was on 18th of april. Today is the 2nd of may. No court order has turned up.....

I guess they are thinking about their next move....

If you are enjoying the fight, or have no other way out, or just want to gum up the gears of the Beast, more power to you. I hope you prevail. Do not expect me or anyone else to follow you in your chosen martyrdom.

Once all your court cases have been dismissed, and there are no more proceedings, then please continue this thread and feel free to brag. Until then, while there are still proceedings or filings or cases or whatever, involving you, your name, your UCC code, or whatever, please do not post anymore. You are selling something you have not proven.

And why do you characterise taking on criminals in guvment as "foolhardy"?

You can take them on the smart way or the dumb way. You keep talking about your way. There are many other ways.

Would you call the men who stormed the beaches at Normandy "foolhardy"?

Or would you call them heros who were willing to risk their lived for the benefit of others?

As far as I am concerned those men were heros who fought and died for what they believed in. They earned my respect. They earned yours too.....

My step grand father was a digger in WW II. He told me of some of the things he saw. He did not want to tell me but he wanted to get the message across. When my mum and dad were but kids his brothers fought and died next to him to keep children like my mum and dad safe.....

I see EVERY man who is not willing to stand up to his OWN GUVMENT and denounce criminals and take whatever comes as a COWARD who is DIS-HONOURING those brave men who fought WW II.

Indeed, Peter, many of us here also had fathers and grandfathers who fought and endured hardship.

And a few of us are indeed doing what we can, and are indeed denouncing criminals and calling for arrests. And have become known to our mutual friends. And sometimes when we write and speak, we do so with the feeling of our forefathers' presence.

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread about it. You could ask, "Other than whining, what are you doing to stop the powers that seek to destroy us?"

I'll be glad to comment, as some others will.

Just try to stop thinking you're the only one.

Jester....

When I was heading out of the office in London to go and do that court meeting I had confided in a couple of close colleagues that it was my belief I would be, at best, jailed for some considerable period, or, at worst, killed. I went to sleep on the night of 26th November 2009 quite ready to be killed in my sleep. I was very proud of my achievement. My best mate called me and told me he was honoured to have a man with my guts call him a friend.

One of my colleagues took me aside and said "what you are doing is one of the bravest things I have ever heard of".

I corrected him and told him how my step grandfather and his mates fought across the pacific islands. I said what I was doing was not a patch on those men. I was going into my battle in an air conditioned office not a jungle 5,000 kms from home. He thought about it for a minute and nodded. He got it.

Jester.

I can look myself in the mirror knowing that when I die I will be able to stand next to my step-grandfather and that he will congratulate me for what I have done and thank me for honouring his mates sacrifice. Be that tomorrow or in many years time. When I die I will stand among the greatest men who ever lived in Australia as a peer. I will be one of them. Why? Because I was ready to do what they did. I followed their lead. I took on the enemy and did not flinche.

I have no argument with your feeling pride, or with your posting any of this. Makes sense.

You will not be welcome among such men because of your cowardice. Men like me do not like to associate with men who are cowards...even after our deaths.

And the problem you have is that you know in your heart you are afraid of your guvment and you are too much of a coward to do what I am doing.

No, Peter. I think you have a risky plan. Stop trying to goad grown men through name-calling. It's a pathetic tactic. Only an idiot follows a stranger blindly. How about I go to your website and read more - if I'm interested?

Btw, speaking of that, your link above is broken - weird music plays. You don't have to even tell me who f***ed it up. MI-6 or whatever they're called down under. I do respect you for the enemies you've made. Now quit making enemies and do something constructive, in a constructive way.

And for God's sake quit trying to browbeat people into following you. That ain't how it's done.

[NorthAmericanguy]

I guess things are different here in America. Here, they send you to jail. One thing is for sure. I'm tired of seeing us guys get screwed by the system. It is sad that we have a system in place that pits a man against his family for the sake of the courts making a profit.

They also can garnish your wages, suspend your drivers licence, and if you owe more then 2,500 in back child support they can deny you a passport.



By the way, have you guys seen this video? Spread it far and wide guys!: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYb5xSd4 ... AAAAAAACAA[/youtube]

[ExpeditionSailor]

I guess things are different here in America. Here, they send you to jail. One thing is for sure. I'm tired of seeing us guys get screwed by the system. It is sad that we have a system in place that pits a man against his family for the sake of the courts making a profit.

They also can garnish your wages, suspend your drivers licence, and if you owe more then 2,500 in back child support they can deny you a passport.


By the way, have you guys seen this video? Spread it far and wide guys!: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYb5xSd4 ... AAAAAAACAA[/youtube]

The rules are pretty similar where I live in Canada. The OP is playing a dangerous game. The only reason why the authorities haven't caught up to him (yet) is because his file has been left in some back room, and because of workload, some clerk hasn't looked at it. Or they don't quite know what to do with his file and will defer it until someone has time to look at it and make a decision. But it will get looked at a time when it is least expected, and the wheels will get put into motion once again.

I'm not a lawyer, but I know that the word 'order' in law has a different meaning than the common meaning used outside of the legal system. An order is a commandment that you do what a judge in a court of law requires. You can try to resort to all kinds of sophistry to explain this one away, but the simple fact of the matter is an entity that has the legal power (by virtue of statutes) can and does issue orders. You don't have to be a soldier to be compelled to follow those orders because military law and civil law are not one and the same, although they may share important features.

The bill the OP presented to the court will likely be ignored, because the court cannot be bound by contracts it did not consent to. The matter of support payments is not governed by contract law anyway, but by divorce law. You could make an argument that as the individual required to make support payments, you didn't agree to the 'contract' that was imposed on you unilaterally - i.e. the obligation to pay alimony. Unfortunately, the minute you married a woman and got a marriage licence, etc., you agreed to be bound by any and all laws governing marriage and divorce, because the licence itself represents the contract between you and the government that makes the laws. It sucks, but there it is, in stark black and white.

Here in Canada, anyone who ignores any court order will eventually be served with what is called a 'show-cause summons'. That document requires the party served to attend court and explain to a judge why they didn't do what they were told to do. If the reason for non-compliance is not good or sufficient, the judge may elect to imprison the party that failed to obey the court order for contempt of court.

If the party served with the summons does not attend, the court can issue a bench warrant that authorizes the police to arrest the respondent and force him to attend a 'show-cause' hearing. Imprisonment for contempt of court always follows. The police aren't always quick to execute bench warrants due to competing priorities. Usually people get picked up on bench warrants in connection with stupid stuff like traffic tickets and the police officer issuing the ticket sees a warrant for the arrest of the violator when he checks the licence and registration.

I suspect that if this much time has passed since the OP presented the court with his bill, a bench warrant has probably already been issued and just hasn't been enforced yet. The OP could try to 'get out of Dodge' while the getting is good, but a support claim for $150,000 EUR is not a small item and will likely get reported to Interpol. What this means is that any country that is part of Interpol and has a reciprocal treaty for the enforcement of support claims or other civil matters can and will hold him when he arrives at a customs checkpoint and then deport him to the country that issued the international warrant for his arrest.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

They also can garnish your wages, suspend your drivers licence, and if you owe more then 2,500 in back child support they can deny you a passport.

NAG,
The guvments DO these things based on the presumed consent of the man. If you do not rebut their presumed consent then no crime is committed when the guvment does these things.

I have explained how to not pay alimony and child support often enough. Men do not wish to try it as they are too cowardly to take on their guvments. Therefore they deserve their slavery.

The MBA now offers the service of getting assets out of a country to switzerland. If men do not take that service and are robbed by their guvment it is no problem of mine. I did my best and men chose not to avail of the service that would have saved their assets.

Once we get the world passport working the MBA will be able to offer the ability to get a mans assets AND the man out of his country.

I think that quite a few men in this place would be interested in such a service. Currently we can only guaranteed to get the assets to a safe place.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

If a judge orders alimony and/or child support, then you will go to jail if you refuse to do so. You can scream, hollar, rant, etc, but the states' laws empower judges to do that.

Be careful advising people to do things that could land them in jail. This is no different than people saying taxes are "voluntary." You must pay them like everyone else.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

If a judge orders alimony and/or child support, then you will go to jail if you refuse to do so. You can scream, hollar, rant, etc, but the states' laws empower judges to do that.

Be careful advising people to do things that could land them in jail. This is no different than people saying taxes are "voluntary." You must pay them like everyone else.

Contrarian Expatriate,
this is simply NOT TRUE and I have PROVEN it is NOT TRUE. Alas, men do not allow a little thing like IRREFUTABLE PROOF change their FALSE OPINIONS.

Judge Griffin issued a court order for EUR6.000 per month interim support in December 2007. The ENTIRE family income. This is a standard tactic in Ireland. By issuing such an order the conflict is generated to get it LOWERED. By trying on that tactic the man is suckered into trying to get it lowered therefore accepting he will pay the lowered amount.

I chose not to pay one cent because the order was not lawful. It was extortion. The judge threatened to throw me in jail and that is a legitimate threat because if he issues an order to cops to throw me in jail they will do that without asking. So I told the judge that if he issued that order he would be killed. He chose not to issue the order.

The total "arrears" by October 2009 was EUR150,000.

I issued a BILL for EUR1.5M and I have never heard from these people again. That was October 2009.

So I had an order for EUR6,000 in November 2007 and I have NEVER PAID ONE CENT.

No order has ever been issued for my strawmans arrest.

So...I have PROVEN that alimony and child support are VOLUNTARY.

P-R-O-V-E-N.

One other man tried this on since I did this and he walked away after about 1 minute in the court. No court order for child support forthcoming from the judge.

Another man tried it before me and has never heard from the courts again. That was in 2009.

Like I said. P-R-O-V-E-N.

If men do not want to listen to me on this point then they deserve to be thrown in jail for unpaid alimony and child support.

Ignorance is NOT bliss.

If you do not rebut their presumed consent to their legislation then you have consented to their legislation.

And by the way? Yes. That does mean I can get EVERY MAN in jail for unpaid child support or alimony OUT OF JAIL if only men would help me do that. But they won't. So men are OPENLY supporting the incarceration of men for alimony and child support by NOT HELPING ME.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Guys,
how pathetic are modern men, eh?

A man like me and some of my colleagues go to GREAT LENGTHS to do the research and learn that a court order is an ORDER like an order at McDonalds and as such you are entitled to issue a BILL for the ORDER and then refuse to fulfill the order until the BILL is paid.

And when we present the PROOF that we have done this men disbelieve that PROOF.

It is no wonder men are slaves.

They can refute IRREFUTABLE PROOF!! LOL!!

No man is challenging that I had this court order against me. No man is challenging I sent the bill. No man is challenging that there has been no court order issued for my arrest.

But overall men are saying "what you present can not be true because the guvment told me alimony and child support has to be paid".

It is amazing when you think about it.

You guys should watch this interview. It was from the mid 80s. Yuri Bezmenov notes that when men are brainwashed it does not matter what information you put in front of them, they will not be able to understand it because it conflicts with their brainwashing. He's talking about 99.9% of men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doqvkC-jYk

One of my mates told me that men were not worth attempting to help or save. And he is correct in the majority of cases. I work for the kids who are innocent.

Men today are not innocent. I have put this link as to how to not pay alimony or child support in front of AT LEAST 10,000 men.

ONE tried it.

And men get "upset" when I call them ignorant! LOL!!