The Pros and Cons of Taiwan: What other sites don't tell you

[Repatriate]

I don't understand why you insist on browbeating Rock and everyone else over and over about this issue. Didn't you already hang out with him once and he proved that he could open girls that you couldn't? Didn't you get ditched by a girl that he opened and convinced to go on a date with you? Even if the girls he opened weren't all that great looking he showed that there is a certain % of girls who are receptive to him and not to you. I have ABC friends who did just fine there while visiting relatives. My cousin is even married to a wealthy Taiwanese girl with looks that would be considered attractive in Taiwan and he MET HER IN THE U.S. TO BOOT where potential suitors were unlimited.


You simply don't have the looks or personality for Taiwan. Get over it Winston, jesus. I know what you're saying is a negative reaction to being strongly rejected in your parent's native country. Go elsewhere for f**k's sake. Why do you keep living with your parents in a country where the women appear to loathe you so much? I thought you pulled enough monthly income to have better living options? Just face the reality and move on.

Also, when you approach every expat and keep blabbering on and on about how cold Taiwanese women are and how you don't get any respect you are just showing your own insecurity and failure. You are really starting to sound like an asian Tom Arnold or Rodney Dangerfield. "I don't get any respect from these women, huzzah!"

I bet most of these guys don't have nearly as many problems as you seem to have with the women but they are willing to humor you. It's kind of sad to be honest. What you're doing is finding people with shoulders to cry on. Be a man for once in your life already. You ditched your son, the mother of your son, and you seem to be failing at Taiwan. Just MOVE ON. :

[Winston]

Two more things I added to the cons section of Taiwan:

- Taiwan's atmosphere has an extremely repressed vibe, energy and feel to it (which is uncommon in other countries of the world and rivaled only by Japan and Korea). You can see it on the cold repressed faces of the masses of Taiwanese people everywhere. What this means is that if you are not repressed yourself, you may feel awkward in Taiwan. If you are outgoing, open, direct and relaxed with strangers (like me), you may feel out of place in Taiwan, like you can't be yourself, like who you are doesn't "fit the flow" in Taiwan. It's hard to explain what I mean, but that's the best way I can put it. Also, when you see cold repressed faces all around you, you can't help but feel repressed yourself. It sort of rubs off on you, especially the longer you are there. Needless to say, it is very awkward to feel like the vibe/energy in Taiwan's is trying to repress you, if you are not that way. It's as if Taiwan is trying to make you into something you're not. It's very awkward to say the least.

- Most white guys who are drawn to live or work in Taiwan tend to be the passive soft-spoken feminine type, which is unusual for western white guys, but common of foreigners in Taiwan. Such are the types that seem to fit in Taiwan best (as well as Japan and East Asia in general). As they say, like attracts like. What this means is that if you are not passive, soft-spoken or feminine, you will not be a natural fit in Taiwan. Typical Taiwan character is very modest and soft-spoken, which by western standards is very feminine and not masculine at all. So if that's not you, you may feel a little awkward because your personality won't fit in.

[eurobrat]

Winston are there any benefits to Taiwan. I'm not soft spoken more blunt, so I guess I should avoid Taiwan altogether?

[Winston]

Winston are there any benefits to Taiwan. I'm not soft spoken more blunt, so I guess I should avoid Taiwan altogether?

Yes, I listed some Pros in the OP post of this thread, remember?

I guess I should also add that Taiwan is a decent place for making money as an English teacher, as your disposable income here is higher than it would be in most countries. For example, you'd have less disposable income if you taught English in Japan, because cost of living there is much higher.

I will add this Pro to the OP list. Thanks for bringing it up.

Ok done. Here is the new Pro on the list in the OP:

- The salary for English teachers is pretty good and in the upper tier range, higher than in most countries, especially in Asia. The main benefit is not just the salary, but the disposable income due to the low cost of living in Taiwan. For example, if you taught English in Japan, you'd have less disposable income due to the higher cost of living there.

[Winston]

Repatriate,
You forget one thing. Most foreigners who go to Taiwan are not expecting the hot girls they see in public to be approachable to strangers. They aren't as demanding as I am and do not expect girls in public to welcome approaching strangers, as I do.

For example, if a white guy goes to Taiwan straight from the USA or the UK, where girls also have a cold wall around them to approaching strangers, they will not be expecting it to be any different.

Also, complaining is seen as a loser activity, and so most don't dare to, even in the USA. But as you saw in the other thread, Sean confessed to me that Taiwan was a very lonely place for him as well, after I brought it up. Men don't usually like to confess their true feelings when it involves vulnerabilities and weaknesses. I'm sure you know that.

In any case, I don't see anyone here approaching girls cold either, so the fact that I can't and am not welcome by them that way, doesn't speak personally about me in any negative way. Basic logic. Other guys don't do it either, so it doesn't reflect badly on me if I can't either. Taiwan is not Europe, Russia or Latin America. So it is not realistic to expect girls here to be as approachable as girls in those cultures. Even good looking Asian guys in Taiwan don't cold approach girls in public. Everyone here knows that. So it's not because I'm not good looking enough.

How did your ABC friends meet their girls? Not through cold approaches in public places right?

[Jester]

If you are outgoing, open, direct and relaxed with strangers (like me), you may feel out of place in Taiwan, like you can't be yourself, like who you are doesn't "fit the flow" in Taiwan. ..............What this means is that if you are not passive, soft-spoken or feminine, you will not be a natural fit in Taiwan. Typical Taiwan character is very modest and soft-spoken, which by western standards is very feminine and not masculine at all. So if that's not you, you may feel a little awkward because your personality won't fit in.

So us open, outgoing types should stick to Phil's?

[Winston]

If you are outgoing, open, direct and relaxed with strangers (like me), you may feel out of place in Taiwan, like you can't be yourself, like who you are doesn't "fit the flow" in Taiwan. ..............What this means is that if you are not passive, soft-spoken or feminine, you will not be a natural fit in Taiwan. Typical Taiwan character is very modest and soft-spoken, which by western standards is very feminine and not masculine at all. So if that's not you, you may feel a little awkward because your personality won't fit in.

So us open, outgoing types should stick to Phil's?

In theory yes. But personality, chemistry, compatibility and many other intangible variables are subjective and complicated, so it's hard to tell. No one can guarantee if you will get along in a particular culture or not. You just have to try it and see.

[Winston]

An observation I added in the Pros section:

- In a way, Taiwanese are inverted compared to Westerners, in that they are closed and repressed on the exterior but are kind, good-natured, polite, and considerate deep down inside, whereas Westerners are more open, communicative, expressive, and articulate on the exterior but essentially "selfish a-holes" deep down inside. (pardon the language)

Another Con I just added:

- Unlike youngsters in Europe and Russia, young people in Taiwan are totally NOT into deep meaningful intellectual conversations at all. Far from it. So if you are an intellectual or introvert who likes deep meaningful discussions, you will find Taiwanese youth to be disappointing in this area. At best, you may find open-minded people willing to listen in on deep meaningful conversations, but you won't find them contributing to such dialogues. No way. The most intellectual people I've met in Taiwan were Buddhist monks and elderly folks who have introspected on life and realized all the BS they were fed by their slave-driven society and culture. Young people in Taiwan are on a very superficial wavelength - they are not into history, philosophy, existential matters, or making insightful observations about people and things around them. Thus, if you are an intellectual, you may feel out of place in Taiwan, and would probably fit in better in Europe, where young intellectuals are far more common.

[De]

I couldn't feel more identified with the thing mentioned in this posts. Now more than ever.

I've been in Taiwan for about 4 years already, and I'm starting my third year of college here.

This past years, I've been living in the core of taiwanese society- young taiwanese people. The way my classmates and people my age interact here are so different form where I come from (South America). You have to guess and you have always this cloud of doubt around everything. You have this feeling that you are being judged, that you are being looked down upon. Here, you have to always carry a fake shield.

Through my years here, I've figured- its the culture. So there's nothing I can do about it. So I also figured, the problem was me and not Taiwan.

But the thing is, that it's impossible to adapt/to change to be able to fit here completely.

And about girls here... I've dated a few taiwanese girls. Few very successful ones but most, very awkward interaction and chemistry. Taiwan has one of the biggest concentrations of hot girls I've ever seen. You see them everywhere. On my first year, I was getting stares everywhere, but due to language barrier things didn't go anywhere. But after the 2nd and 3rd year, the Taiwanese negative energy got to me, and as too late to utilize my new chinese speaking abilities, but when I had the chance, things didn't got so well either.

But what I totally agree on Winston, is that taiwanese girls have some fetish with white guys. They speak no chinese but they get all the girls, meanwhile something more exotic like me, latino-chinese have to work their ass off for reward.

[Winston]

Welcome De. Are you in Taipei? Maybe you and Rock can meet up. He lives there.

I know what you mean. It feels like as an ABC, Taiwan has no place for you. You don't fit into the foreigner or local category. And you are expected to be something you're not, and everyone has a false assumption about you when they see you.

So you are half Chinese and half Latino? That must look exotic. Do people think you are Latino or Filipino?

Another guy emailed me similar feelings of alienation in Taiwan. Here's what he said:

Hi Winston.

I had written in your contact form but I want to know your personal
experiences. What I hate most about living in Taiwan is that I always am
treated like an outsider, simply because I didn't spend my entire life in
Taiwan and speak Chinese with an accent. I don't like to be asked where I
come from, which I get all the time when I talk to people. I've already
been living in Taiwan long term (8 years) and feel so tired about how hard
it is to fit in. I also don't like mentioning how I grew up in the US or
abroad, since many people are not accepting and will make fun of you for
it, because it proves that you are different from them. It makes me
paranoid to be around others simply because I know that they will make a
big deal out of it. When I'm in other countries or talking to different
races, it is much less stressful because they won't judge you because you
grew up in a different country or speak with an accent. I have been
discriminated from jobs because employers say they don't want foreigners,
although it's illegal to discriminate based on gender, age, race, country
of birth, etc.

Yeah, I did hint about being an ABC. I'm in Taiwan because I'm living and
working here with my family, although I live separate from them for now. I
understand how hard you feel it is to interact with the people, which is
why I want to leave the country. How long will you be in Taiwan and I
think you said you willingly came to Taiwan so that the environment will
help you concentrate on work.

I'm living in Taipei City. I really feel sick and tired of Taiwan and how
there's very little human connection or interaction--everyone is their own
little island. Sometimes people make it forbidden to talk to each other,
whether as a rule or through their tone of voice. I think every Yellow
country is like that, although you could ask your forum members for sure.
How can you view this White guy as your friend when all he can do is talk
about how great Taiwan is when he doesn't live here? Are you really sure
that once I can leave the country for any non-Yellow country, human
interaction will be much easier? I'm working full time to save enough
money to leave.

[Winston]

Another Con of Taiwan that I just realized:

- Driving in Taiwan is inconvenient and often puts you between a rock and a hard place. Taiwanese cities are not designed for cars, making them a pain in the ass to drive or park in. They are designed for scooters, which is why most Taiwanese ride scooters rather than cars (in addition to the higher cost of a car of course). Scooters can park a lot easier in Taiwanese cities, whereas cars have a much harder time finding parking, even in small cities, as there is little space to park. However, if you ride a scooter then you are taking a big chance with your life, because even one accident or collision on a scooter could mean death or critical injury, which goes without saying. Therefore, driving in Taiwan puts you between a rock and a hard place - you are either inconvenienced with no place to park, or you drive high risk on a scooter with no bodily protection.

Furthermore, driving in Taiwanese cities is messy and requires extreme caution, because most people are on scooters, which swarm everywhere like ants. This makes it difficult and risky to make turns, for each time you turn, you have to check your shoulder for scooters coming up beside you. And if you forget to look even once... well something terrible could happen! Therefore, an accident is just a hairline away. But if you drive too carefully, then you will have people behind you honking angrily and rudely. So again, you are between a rock and a hard place.

Moreover, if you are driving in the right lane, the lane often ends due to parked cars in the right lane, forcing you to veer into the left lane. But if you drive in the left lane, then some car ahead of you always stops trying to make a left turn through oncoming traffic, often causing you to miss a green light at an intersection. But you can't always just pass him on the right either, because on your right there will be vehicles rushing by you as well. Geez! So again, you are between a rock and a hard place in that both the right and left lane contain troublesome obstacles.

[momopi]

...wait until you experience traffic & road conditions in China. he he he.

[Winston]

I won't be driving in China. I will be taking public transportation. :P

Btw, Chinese women told me that in China, scooters are not common. If that's so, then wouldn't it be easier to make turns in a car, since you won't have to look behind your shoulder for approaching scooters every time? That's such a hassle. Sheesh.

[Winston]

Another Con I just thought of:

- If you are a person who gets bitten by insects a lot, for whatever reason, you will have a hard time outdoors in Taiwan when you're not in a city of cement slabbed concrete. For some reason, Taiwan's climate is filled with tiny insects everywhere, so that if you go outside for some fresh air, within minutes your arms and whatever skin you have exposed is filled with red bumps from insect bites. (I know this from personal experience because my skin attracts insect bites incessantly) This makes it hard to enjoy nature and fresh air, or even to go outside for a walk, outside the city that is. That just sucks. I guess hot humid Asian tropic climates allow more nasty things to breed compared to cooler drier air.

[momopi]

I won't be driving in China. I will be taking public transportation.
Btw, Chinese women told me that in China, scooters are not common. If that's so, then wouldn't it be easier to make turns in a car, since you won't have to look behind your shoulder for approaching scooters every time? That's such a hassle. Sheesh.

Depends on the city.

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