Why are white expats in Taiwan leaving for the Philippines?

[momopi]

It's said that for every 10 gaijin that goes to Japan (for study abroad or teach English or ?), 3 will have a great time and great social life, 4 will have a so-so or mediocre time, and the other 3 will strike out, think the place sucks and want to go home.

The 3 that had a great time thinks they're the greater majority, and doesn't understand why the bottom 3 are having a sh*tty time. The bottom 3 that had a crappy experience also thinks that they're the greater majority. They seek out people who have similar experience to justify their own success, or lack of it.

The truth is that everyone may have a completely different experience, and until you go and experience it yourself, you won't know if you'd have a good time or not. People who want to argue over this online are a complete waste of time. Just because someone else had a good or bad experience does not mean that you would. Just because a place was good/bad 10 years ago does not mean that it's good/bad today. Those looking for "guaranteed" experiences may proceed directly to P4P destinations.

The better advice to give is that if you don't like what you see, vote with your feet and WALK. Immigrants do this every day.

[Rock]

Hey all,
Get this. My friend Sean that I mentioned in this thread is here in Angeles City now from Taiwan. He knows Rock too and met him before after I introduced them. Like Rock, he is white and a long time resident of Taiwan and speaks fluent Mandarin. The other day, he met up with me and Rock, and told Rock that he found Taiwan to be very isolating like the USA, and Taiwanese women to be very unapproachable. He also said that if he could find a way to make a living in the Philippines, he would much rather live here than in Taiwan. Remember, this is a decent looking white guy, like Rock, who is educated and has a good job too.

Now get this: Sean told us both about his French lawyer friend in Taipei who made a lot of money and had a high status job, but couldn't get any dates in Taipei at all. So now this friend of his is coming to Angeles City to "release his inhibitions" finally. Whoa!

Rock was shocked and stunned when he heard that. His jaw dropped too. I saw a look of bewilderment in Rock's eyes when he heard that, as though his bubble burst. I think Rock is beginning to accept the truth about Taiwan now that he's heard similar complaints from so many sources, even to his face. Or at least he is admitting that Taiwan is nothing like it used to be.

I did get Rock to confess IN PERSON that he was highly biased toward Taiwan and not that objective about it. Now he seems to be accepting the truth. But his filtering of the truth was definitely there before. So anyway, I definitely was NOT wrong about Taiwan after all. Nor was I crazy. Rock tried to make me out to be a madman, which I was NOT. But it was wrong for him to portray me as one when I was right all along.

Sean and I both agree that Taiwan is boring and socially isolating. The only active social groups that I see there are comprised of mostly foreigners and a few Westernized Taiwanese, which is typical. In fact, this Asian American girl I know in Taipei is losing her mind there after being stuck there for so long and is desperate to leave, but doesn't have the means.

Clearly, Taiwan is ABSOLUTELY NOT the paradise Rock made it out to be. I don't understand why he did that, or why he seemed to mislead people.

To Rock:

You and I may have different experiences, but don't you think it was a bit misleading for you to tell others that Taiwan is a wonderful fun positive place for the vast majority of foreign men? Wasn't that way presumptuous and misleading? What was your basis for that anyway? It never made any logical sense nor had any valid basis. Also, sometimes you also seem to enjoy saying things that you know aren't true just to be argumentative, even without basis. I've noticed that pattern in you and others. It's an annoying personality quirk and leads to unnecessary arguments and debates. I mean I can find little exceptions in every rule too and try to use them to debate every observation, but that would be stupid because I prefer to see the big picture. The bottom line is that citing little exceptions does NOT change general patterns and truths.

This is what Sean told me about his white French lawyer friend. The guy is 31, fluent in Mandarin, Harvard grad and had a decent lawyer job until recently. He was working a cute NTU student (I think 21 or 22) on FB but when she found out his age, she immediately said no-way and blocked him. I've always claimed that Taiwan is not an older man's country but I thought that was a bit excessive. In my experience, a guy like that would be at least acceptable or even desirable to majority of young local girls given his education and career. But perhaps this guy has personality issues or does not look that great (from a Taiwanese perspective). I could say more if I met him.

Sean also told me that the French guy had lived in Taiwan 7 or 8 years earlier and had done very well with local women that first time. He told Sean that Taiwan (Taipei) was much much better back then for him, that he had a much easier time with the girls. So could it be that Taipei circa 2013 has deteriorated relative to 2005 on that metric (ease of attracting and dating desirable young Taiwan females for a foreigner like him)? Or is it mainly because he is older now and perhaps more jaded?

The only 2 or 3 guys I know of who came to Taipei as a result of my postings were happy with it and told me so. I have PM and email evidence to back this up. But nobody has ever complained to me about misleading them regarding Taiwan. I firmly stand by all my posts on Taipei and Taiwan. And have made the risks and caveats very clear including the possibility that it may be getting worse.

Yes, I am personally biased in favor of Taiwan, for practical reasons. Although I've spent considerable time in many areas of the world, I've had more luck in attracting and dating young girls I find attractive or better in Taiwan than any other country I've been to. My dating life went from virtually nil to very fruitful as a result of just one plane trip from Chicago to Taipei. Perhaps you have somewhat similar sentiments towards Russia. Difference for me is that I took it a lot further and enjoyed the fruits for a much longer time.

[Winston]

It's said that for every 10 gaijin that goes to Japan (for study abroad or teach English or ?), 3 will have a great time and great social life, 4 will have a so-so or mediocre time, and the other 3 will strike out, think the place sucks and want to go home.

The 3 that had a great time thinks they're the greater majority, and doesn't understand why the bottom 3 are having a sh*tty time. The bottom 3 that had a crappy experience also thinks that they're the greater majority. They seek out people who have similar experience to justify their own success, or lack of it.

The truth is that everyone may have a completely different experience, and until you go and experience it yourself, you won't know if you'd have a good time or not. People who want to argue over this online are a complete waste of time. Just because someone else had a good or bad experience does not mean that you would. Just because a place was good/bad 10 years ago does not mean that it's good/bad today. Those looking for "guaranteed" experiences may proceed directly to P4P destinations.

The better advice to give is that if you don't like what you see, vote with your feet and WALK. Immigrants do this every day.

That's a good point Momopi. But where do those stats come from, since most people who did not enjoy a culture would not openly say so due to the taboo of political correctness.

And also, how do you know if the three who say they had a great time really did? As you know, many people always say that "everything is great" even when it isn't, because that sounds more cool. That's what most of the Couchsurfing people and everyone on the Travel Channel does. Apparently, politeness and positivity are more important than truth and honesty, according to the rule of political correctness.

In social groups, when you ask a question like "How is Taiwan?" you are expected to say "It's good. Very nice." Even Sean will say that if asked directly. Last time he said that, I added "Nice, but very boring as well." to which he nodded.

Also, why do you think everyone has a different experience? What's the cause of that? It can't be all about looks, because Sean is a decent looking white guy like Rock. But he tells it like it is and is more no-nonsense about Taiwan, whereas Rock acts like a diplomat trying to sugar coat everything about Taiwan, which he admits to.

Also Momopi, don't you think it's presumptuous of Rock to insinuate that the vast majority of Western guys will vibe with Taiwan and fit in easily and pick up chicks easily? After all, we all know that Taiwan is NOT an inclusive society, but a very cliquish one. No one disputes that. And very insular and hard to connect with too. And we all know that Taiwanese, like Japanese, have cold eyes and do not make eye contact, particularly in the case of young women unfortunately. So Rock's presumption that most people can easily fit in here is like "against the waves and current" isn't it? Especially when Sean says that Taiwan is just as socially isolating and uptight as North America.

Also, Rock's earlier statement above about the "easy pick up scene in Taipei" sounds completely bogus and based on no data. Very strange. As even you know Momopi, Taiwan is not an easy pick up scene at all. I'm sure even Rock knows that. So I don't get why he would use those words. It's very bizarre and definitely untrue as well. Logic says that if there was an easy pickup scene in Taipei, then no expats would need to come to SE Asia.

Even Sean admitted that Taiwanese girls are better looking than Filipinas, but they are just too cold and unapproachable and difficult. The uptightness I speak of radiates around them in their vibe and body language. Obviously, if they are not approachable, then it's not an easy pickup scene. So I don't get why Rock would admit to that, yet say the opposite. Sometimes he just likes to play with people's heads it seems.

Even Ginger, who has spent a lot of time with Rock, has said that sometimes, Rock will start an argument or debate her on something just to have something to argue about. Often there is no basis for it. He just enjoys playing devil's advocate and getting a reaction out of people. It seems to be an integral part of his personality. I don't get why some people do that. It seems like a waste of time. But apparently, Rock does that more with her than with me for some reason. Around me, Rock is mostly calm and cool.

[ryanx]

I find a lot of Taiwanese girls very attractive physically...after nearly 5 years here I have not lost a single atom of my yellow fever. BUT the problems are language, culture and age.

It is a VERY difficult dating environment. The Chinese culture (with a somewhat Japanese flavor here) simply does not mix well with other cultures. It is not an inclusive or including culture. I think one of the reasons the great majority insist on using English with foreigners (Westerners and perceived Westerners and not their servants, maids and work horses from other Asian countries) is a kind of psychological wall they put up to not mix.

This is all pervasive and the girls feel the pressure too, even if they try to resist it. You never ever see foreigners (the few that are here) mixing freely and comfortably with the locals, laughing, joking, bantering.

I feel my presence always makes people a little bit stressed, uncomfortable and agitated (or maybe it is just me lol) very few act just relaxed and normal.

This kind of atmosphere is not exactly conducive to picking up girls.

If you add in the lack of language proficiency and age to mix (as is my case) then the prospects start diminishing. It is a shame really, because the girls here are so damn hot! but their culture, psychology, small island mentality, repressed sexuality and their fascination with all things superficial...all combine to deny you access.

Ce la vie.

[Rock]

I find a lot of Taiwanese girls very attractive physically...after nearly 5 years here I have not lost a single atom of my yellow fever. BUT the problems are language, culture and age.

It is a VERY difficult dating environment. The Chinese culture (with a somewhat Japanese flavor here) simply does not mix well with other cultures. It is not an inclusive or including culture. I think one of the reasons the great majority insist on using English with foreigners (Westerners and perceived Westerners and not their servants, maids and work horses from other Asian countries) is a kind of psychological wall they put up to not mix.

This is all pervasive and the girls feel the pressure too, even if they try to resist it. You never ever see foreigners (the few that are here) mixing freely and comfortably with the locals, laughing, joking, bantering.

I feel my presence always makes people a little bit stressed, uncomfortable and agitated (or maybe it is just me lol) very few act just relaxed and normal.

This kind of atmosphere is not exactly conducive to picking up girls.

If you add in the lack of language proficiency and age to mix (as is my case) then the prospects start diminishing. It is a shame really, because the girls here are so damn hot! but their culture, psychology, small island mentality, repressed sexuality and their fascination with all things superficial...all combine to deny you access.

Ce la vie.

It's interesting that they insist on speaking English with you and perhaps other westerners you know. People I talk to around and about Taipei (restaurants, stores, drivers, banks, schools, mail carriers, repair people, etc.) almost always use Mandarin even if they are the first to speak. I wonder if they can somehow just tell that I'm a LT localized expat.

Once in awhile, I do run into the person who actively speaks English to me. But usually, when they figure out its easier (faster) to communicate with me in Mandarin, they give up and revert to their native tongue. However, when I do come across someone who really wants to practice English with me (not common), I'm usually happy to engage them, especially if they have reasonable fluency or look cute in a miniskirt, joke!

For those who can stomach the cultural issues brought up by some here, I imagine Taipei is still a great dating environment for certain westerners in their 20s and those in their 30s who still look youthful. But, my personal experience is stale by now. It could be that Taipei has gone downhill in this aspect.

BTW, I do see mixed groups (western and Taiwanese) which seem to interact naturally sometimes, especially in unis and certain clubs or restaurants. Such groups usually seem to be comprised of people who are pretty young. What seems to be very common is seeing western guys who live in Taipei with a Taiwanese date, gf, or wife. I see this frequently whenever I go out in Taipei. So the group think might be more challenging but not necessarily dating.

[ryanx]

No matter what your or my particular personal experiences may be, the bottom line is that Western culture, looks, fashion, technology and entertainment is greatly admired and emulated. They all have 'English' names, not Arabic or Turkish or Russian or Pakistani or Indian or any number of cultures or countries.

I wouldn't mind if just for a change someone would say oh I really liked this (insert country) name when I visited there last year and now I use it as a nick name when I meet non-Chinese speakers who may find pronouncing my Chinese name too difficult.

Case in point, I am chatting with a restaurant owner and a friend of hers appears and she introduces him by his Chinese name, he immediately corrects her "oh no my name is not blah, it's Peter" beaming with pride. She laughs and says, well I just didn't know your English name.

They are very deferential and accommodating towards Westerners, but little do they know the racism and discrimination their kind face in so many Western countries.

One Sunday morning I happened to be around Taichung train station and as usual it was heaving with all the Asian migrant workers trying to squeeze as much fun out of their one day off a week, for the lucky ones, (for some a once a month occurrence or even every three months or in some cases never!) by sitting around on dirty stone and wooden seats and drinking out of bottles or milling around in the shopping plaza eating their foods prepared by their country men. All good.

Later in the evening I happened to be walking past a pub which is very popular with Westerners, everybody sitting around on comfy chairs with beautiful decor and ambiance and music and menus in English and servers all sweet and English speaking and customers all glowing from a variety of food and drinks before them and chatting and laughing without a care in the world.

The contrast could not be more stark. And the thing is that they could go to that pub or similar any night of the week and not worry about a 9 or 10 pm curfew at some dorm where they have to share a room with up to seven others and pine for a day off in three and a half weeks!

Of all the answers, the ones who start speaking to me in English, give me when I take them to task for it, the one about wanting to respect me rankles me the most.

[momopi]

And also, how do you know if the three who say they had a great time really did?

You don't, nor do you define what a "great time" is for other people. As far as we know, the person could have a serafuku fetish and teaching English in a Japanese school is having a great time. Do yourself a favor, stop thinking about it and move on with your life.

[NeighborhoodNetBang]

Variety is the spice of life I suppose. If I were White I'd stay in Taiwan or go to other NE Asian countries where the women are easy and attractive. As a Black man, even I wouldn't go to the PI because even if pinays are more open to brothas they just don't turn me on at all. Most SE Asian women turn me off like Black men turn off quality women of any race.

[Anonymous1]

Variety is the spice of life I suppose. If I were White I'd stay in Taiwan or go to other NE Asian countries where the women are easy and attractive. As a Black man, even I wouldn't go to the PI because even if pinays are more open to brothas they just don't turn me on at all. Most SE Asian women turn me off like Black men turn off quality women of any race.

im not suprised...black men seem to attract low end type filipinas or SEAsians

[Winston]

That expat friend in Taiwan I told you all about, Shawn, told me that he is moving to the Philippines. See what he told me below. Look what he says about his friends in Taiwan. It sounds like what you'd say about America! I can't imagine being happier abroad in Taiwan. What is Rock smoking? lol

Here is what Shawn said:

Thailand is ok...but, i guess i'm just used to Phil now..plus i have a pretty good group of friends in AC now, and Phil in general. so, wherever u go, its good to have friends to hang out with, otherwise it can get pretty boring...most of my friends here in Taiwan are married, and, once they get married, they never come out. so, i sometimes think i have more friends in Phil than here. at least in Phil, people still go out once in a while...i dont mean partying, even a simple lunch or dinner...but, here in Taiwan, i usually have to schedule a dinner like 1 month in advance to be able to see any of my guy friends...

[Falcon]

I can't imagine being happier abroad in Taiwan. What is Rock smoking? lol

Actually, I can imagine being happier abroad in Taiwan because of the Indonesian ladies there! Haven't really checked out the Filipinas, Thais, and Vietnamese yet, but I can imagine they're all much easier for me to connect with than many young Taiwanese women.

I'll need to write a trip report about this when I have time.

[Winston]

Update:

Guess what guys? I was just in taichung today. On my way back, at the bus station I saw a tall athletic looking white guy with long hair approaching girls at the train station trying to chat them up.

Every girl he approached leaned away from him as though they didn't want to talk to him and were trying to keep the conversation short. After a while he gave up and sat down in the waiting area.

How do you all explain that? It appears that Taiwan isn't easy for young athletic white guys either. No wonder why most white guys have left Taiwan and many went to the Philippines too. You don't see as many white guys in Taiwan nowadays.

Another update:

You can add rock to the list of expats who fled Taiwan to the Philippines now. He told me he's given up on Taiwan and has a lot more fun and better dating life in the Philippines. I guess nothing beats the Philippines now. Lol

And this fact also validates what I said about Taiwan all along.

[green1976]

Update:

Guess what guys? I was just in taichung today. On my way back, at the bus station I saw a tall athletic looking white guy with long hair approaching girls at the train station trying to chat them up.

Every girl he approached leaned away from him as though they didn't want to talk to him and were trying to keep the conversation short. After a while he gave up and sat down in the waiting area.

How do you all explain that? It appears that Taiwan isn't easy for young athletic white guys either. No wonder why most white guys have left Taiwan and many went to the Philippines too. You don't see as many white guys in Taiwan nowadays.

Another update:

You can add rock to the list of expats who fled Taiwan to the Philippines now. He told me he's given up on Taiwan and has a lot more fun and better dating life in the Philippines. I guess nothing beats the Philippines now. Lol

And this fact also validates what I said about Taiwan all along.

Philippines,Thailand,Cambodia have the lead in SEA.
Reading all around it looks PI is the best place to date everywhere.
I would keep Thailand for P4P but travelling to the other part of the planet to try to meet women who don't want to interact with me or demand thousands of condition to meet a guy because if it's not like that,it's weird,that's not the country i would go.
I will happily leave alone SK type women..i don't need them,they don't need me..Thai or PI ladies are willing in general without so much hassle to meet new faces.

[MrBlueLight]

Update:

Guess what guys? I was just in taichung today. On my way back, at the bus station I saw a tall athletic looking white guy with long hair approaching girls at the train station trying to chat them up.

Every girl he approached leaned away from him as though they didn't want to talk to him and were trying to keep the conversation short. After a while he gave up and sat down in the waiting area.

How do you all explain that? It appears that Taiwan isn't easy for young athletic white guys either. No wonder why most white guys have left Taiwan and many went to the Philippines too. You don't see as many white guys in Taiwan nowadays.

Another update:

You can add rock to the list of expats who fled Taiwan to the Philippines now. He told me he's given up on Taiwan and has a lot more fun and better dating life in the Philippines. I guess nothing beats the Philippines now. Lol

And this fact also validates what I said about Taiwan all along.

What did I say? You don't freaking cold approach girls on the street in Taiwan. It's against their cultural value to be receptive to random strangers. Completely disregarding the cultural difference and trying to run the western game here will only run you into a wall. Like I said, get to know girls through friends and social circles, and watch these girls open up.

Quit beating a dead horse. And what you said above pretty much described all North-eastern Asia (save some parts of China). If you think Taiwanese girls are like that, then boy wait till you go to South Korea and Japan.

[newlifeinphilippines]

winston why aren't you dating the filipina and indonesian maids and factory workers?