I'm back in Vietnam!

[kangarunner]

@Natural_Born_Cynic, the legendary "Filipino friendliness" is a bit of a caricature of the American friendliness, as seen in countless comedies. It's a more outspoken, over the top, warmer and stickier version of the way American are, or, better, pretend to be your friends. Filipinos might come at you all smiles and hugs, ask you personal questions, nodding and smiling whatever you say.

They embrace you in their chitchat, they promise you to invite you to meet their families, or even do business with them. If they have travelled to or around the place you come from, they start waxing lyrical about whatever (stereotypically) good or beautiful there is in that country. Sometimes they only speak based on second-hand information, most "standard" Filipinos will have never even taken a flight in their lives.

Most attention-starved people of the West easily fall into this honey pot. Reality is, they see you, the foreigner, as a person potentially much more well-off than them. They want, or at least try to build what looks like a nice rapport as soon as possible (hence the flamboyant approach) and of course ask for your phone number or social media contact, which one would happily give away, especially if just landed in the country.

Depending on the level of bronze faced-ness and need/desperation, in 99% of the cases, they will call you back or message you on social media to meet for a beer, or invite you for a dinner at their place. How can one say no? Just landed in the Philippines, already made friends...the legend is true, after all.

After that one friendly encounter, often without even that friendly encounter, here comes the open-heart-surgery conversation about whatever is going on with their families. The stories are always taller, stickier and more tragic than they need to be. There's always an unpayable loan contracted in time of extreme need, an elderly relative in intensive care or an up-and-coming, life-saving medical event, or a son/daughter who show lots of potential but cannot go to school because of missing tuition money.

Of course all the stories end up with the promise that "it's just a loan, I will give you back the money as soon as I can". Now, this is the single biggest cultural difference between us Westerners and the Filipino. To a Filipino, words mean nothing. A promise means nothing more than the pockets of hot air that moved from them to you, as they uttered it. A "loan" means not only it's not a loan..it means they have the right to feel uneasy, insulted, even, if the payer of the loan ever mentions that loan a month, 6 months or 6 years down the line. A "loan" means "I have shown you a little bit of attention, now just give me money, white face, and maybe I'll see you again".

The litmus test of all of the above is that those Filipinos who are financially independent and don't need to throw honey pellets to foreigners, will treat you with the same distance, indifference, if not open prejudice, as anyone in the West. A fellow Italian, Brit, Australian or Chinese will at least display a modicum of politeness, if unsolicitedly approached. Some of the upper class Filipinos have the arrogance to actively shoo a foreigner away like it belongs to a dirty underclass or pariah. Trying is believing.

This is the only reality here in the Philippines. I have been living here since 2015 and played the game, both to my advantage and detriment, until it was anthropologically or sexually interesting to do so. Once I arrived in Manila and got married with the best person I could find, my social circle has had the diameter of a pin prick. I keep distant from anyone who, I know, will be back to me bowl in hand. And that's, unfortunately, 99% of the locals I could meet in my daily life.

WIth as much time I've spent reading this forum, this post is well worth being here. I've never been to the Philippines but after reading this, I don't have much interest in going there other than seeing Palawan and all the beautiful islands that pop up on Instagram. I've seen a few youtube channels of expats in the Philippines (ex: Sunshine Shoulders, World Zoom) and also heard stories about many older men retiring there. I have to also ask why @Rock (who claimed to work in the hard-nosed, no nonsense banking world) chooses to spend time in Manila since after seeing his interview on the Every man has a story youtube channel, he doesn't seem like the type of person who would put up with being around that artificial veneer of friendliness you describe above. Your post above has saved me from fooling around there and choose other places in Asia.

With all you said above and your last paragraph, I have to ask you why you continue to live there? Would @MarcosZeitola agree with you?

P.S. I'm saving this post for future reference.

[kangarunner]

The Vietnamese are reserved people. They are not that friendly, at least until you get to know them well. I used to think very well of the apparent ease with which Filipinos talk to you and want to be your friends. Over the years, I have learned to appreciate the humble, nuanced, polite approach of the Vietnamese or even the Thai, and de-preciate the boastful, sticky, over the top and often purely functional (ie. they want something from you) friendliness of the Pinoy.

You nailed it. I appreciate it also being here. Only the most discerning of travelers would make this insight. I've f***ed up a few times already with dates here in Saigon with some high class women (one a doctor and one a film producer) because of my lack of social grace. I heard on Greg Twitchy's channel one time someone say that as you get older you learn to appreciate a traditionally feminine Asian woman as opposed to the manly women of the West. Moreover, just appreciating the "reserved" nature of people in general makes life more pleasant here in Vietnam. I suppose outside of the bright lights and tourism of Bangkok there's an upper class of Thais who despise us foreigners who come to their holy Kingdom. I think I read on here one time someone said in Thailand there is a "smile of death" or something like that (which is part of saving face culture) that conceals their true inner thoughts about what they truly think about you. Scott Mallon will tell you about it. Although, I love Thailand and went on many dates with bilingual Thai women there. I see that shit in America also but it's rare. Someone will put on a fake smile at me, but then as soon as I turn around, they quickly lose the smile. But more often not, if someone doesn't like me or has a problem with me, American men (and some women) will be directly confrontational and not passive aggressive.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

I don't mind the Filipino friendliness. Filipinos are alright with me as they are bit like the Spanish people in the U.S, but their food is terrible. All greasy, slimy junk. The Koreans are also cold and reserved people until you know them. The difference is Koreans are also more outwardly aggressive, and ill mannered at least compared to Vietnamese people.

@Natural_Born_Cynic, the legendary "Filipino friendliness" is a bit of a caricature of the American friendliness, as seen in countless comedies. It's a more outspoken, over the top, warmer and stickier version of the way American are, or, better, pretend to be your friends. Filipinos might come at you all smiles and hugs, ask you personal questions, nodding and smiling whatever you say.

They embrace you in their chitchat, they promise you to invite you to meet their families, or even do business with them. If they have travelled to or around the place you come from, they start waxing lyrical about whatever (stereotypically) good or beautiful there is in that country. Sometimes they only speak based on second-hand information, most "standard" Filipinos will have never even taken a flight in their lives.

Most attention-starved people of the West easily fall into this honey pot. Reality is, they see you, the foreigner, as a person potentially much more well-off than them. They want, or at least try to build what looks like a nice rapport as soon as possible (hence the flamboyant approach) and of course ask for your phone number or social media contact, which one would happily give away, especially if just landed in the country.

Depending on the level of bronze faced-ness and need/desperation, in 99% of the cases, they will call you back or message you on social media to meet for a beer, or invite you for a dinner at their place. How can one say no? Just landed in the Philippines, already made friends...the legend is true, after all.

After that one friendly encounter, often without even that friendly encounter, here comes the open-heart-surgery conversation about whatever is going on with their families. The stories are always taller, stickier and more tragic than they need to be. There's always an unpayable loan contracted in time of extreme need, an elderly relative in intensive care or an up-and-coming, life-saving medical event, or a son/daughter who show lots of potential but cannot go to school because of missing tuition money.

Of course all the stories end up with the promise that "it's just a loan, I will give you back the money as soon as I can". Now, this is the single biggest cultural difference between us Westerners and the Filipino. To a Filipino, words mean nothing. A promise means nothing more than the pockets of hot air that moved from them to you, as they uttered it. A "loan" means not only it's not a loan..it means they have the right to feel uneasy, insulted, even, if the payer of the loan ever mentions that loan a month, 6 months or 6 years down the line. A "loan" means "I have shown you a little bit of attention, now just give me money, white face, and maybe I'll see you again".

The litmus test of all of the above is that those Filipinos who are financially independent and don't need to throw honey pellets to foreigners, will treat you with the same distance, indifference, if not open prejudice, as anyone in the West. A fellow Italian, Brit, Australian or Chinese will at least display a modicum of politeness, if unsolicitedly approached. Some of the upper class Filipinos have the arrogance to actively shoo a foreigner away like it belongs to a dirty underclass or pariah. Trying is believing.

This is the only reality here in the Philippines. I have been living here since 2015 and played the game, both to my advantage and detriment, until it was anthropologically or sexually interesting to do so. Once I arrived in Manila and got married with the best person I could find, my social circle has had the diameter of a pin prick. I keep distant from anyone who, I know, will be back to me bowl in hand. And that's, unfortunately, 99% of the locals I could meet in my daily life.

Thank you for your perspective on Filipinos. The "Filipino friendliness" was my general impression of one of my Filipino customers going back to the Philippines. They could've have used an American Freight forwarding company, but their "Korean friend" recommended us. They didn't look low class as they have been working and living in America. They were pretty friendly yet polite and they didn't ask for any additional money or talked about their extended families and needing a loan.. they were well off financially.

Believe it or not, many Koreans go to Philippines to get their English education on a cheap price compared to America and other Anglo Commonwealth countries. In addition, some times, Korean mafia members set up shop in the Philippines and Korean companies also set up their factories there.

You don't have to worry about me because personally, I'm not interested in Philippines at all and Filipinas are not my type of women. Instead, I don't know why many members in this website are in the Philippines and crazy about the Philippines. I personally don't see the appeal.
And Filipino food is the worst greasy junk I have ever eaten. Yuck! I wouldn't give them to my dog if I had one.

In addition, Winston has been really nice enough in writing his "struggles" and tribulations there. How his relationship with Diane, Angelo didn't work out and how Manila sucks, how he have to f*ck prostitutes in Angeles City, and how Filipinos are bunch of thieving, lying, scumbags and sub humans in a third world country, etc.

[publicduende]

WIth as much time I've spent reading this forum, this post is well worth being here. I've never been to the Philippines but after reading this, I don't have much interest in going there other than seeing Palawan and all the beautiful islands that pop up on Instagram. I've seen a few youtube channels of expats in the Philippines (ex: Sunshine Shoulders, World Zoom) and also heard stories about many older men retiring there. I have to also ask why @Rock (who claimed to work in the hard-nosed, no nonsense banking world) chooses to spend time in Manila since after seeing his interview on the Every man has a story youtube channel, he doesn't seem like the type of person who would put up with being around that artificial veneer of friendliness you describe above. Your post above has saved me from fooling around there and choose other places in Asia.

With all you said above and your last paragraph, I have to ask you why you continue to live there? Would @MarcosZeitola agree with you?

P.S. I'm saving this post for future reference.

Thanks for the flattering words @kangarunner. Of course living in the Philippines or Manila has a few pros, especially if, as in my case, I am financially sound enough to afford good food, holidays whenever I want (indeed, whenever I can take time off) and the prospect of a bigger home in a nice place down the line.

Unfortunately, the stage curtains have long been opened wide and all I can see is the ugly brickwork and machinery behind. As good old @ladislav pointed out in several posts, the Filipinos are a truly complicated society, with traits surfacing from their tribal Malay past as much as their Spanish/Latino imprinting, their more recent filo-American soft colonisation, plus home-brewed quirkiness.

The thing that is 100% out of the question is, surprise surprise, how extremely easy is to find girls to bed, and how much sex drive you can find in those petite bodies and weird minds. I don't think any other society in the world comes even close to the Philippines in this department. That's why I mentioned "playing the game". If the game had been one-sided, I would have abandoned both the game and the Philippines a long time ago.

I can't say much about Rock, especially since I haven't seen or talked to him for years. From what I remember, he also was of the cautious, low-profile type. He would interact with just about the number of local people (mostly girls) as strictly necessary.

I like the Every Man Has a Story blog, I would watch his videos way before finding Rock's interview. As you can see from his contents, most of his life revolves around his wife Jen, soon his new kid, and the people he interviews, mostly elderly foreigners. And I sincerely doubt he hangs out much with the latter, after their screen time is over.

Thing is, most of these senior men primarily seek peace. Give them a nice house far from the chaos of the city and a morena 20 or 30 years younger than them, and they will be happy to live a simple, modest life. Some of the more perspective and entrepreneurial of them might start a little side business, just to keep themselves active, or get creative with YouTube.

While I am far from young, I still feel I have a few more productive years to burn and, running a company that includes Filipino clients, I interact with Filipinos on a daily basis. Being the extroverted Italian I am, I am not happy to have to talk to dozens of people every day, while strictly keeping things professional. I regret being unable to bond with any of them on something deeper and more sincere than a functional (i.e. "need a loan") friendship. Unfortunately, my priority is to protect myself not only from outright scams and financial losses, but also the frustration and disappointment of giving my heart and best intentions to people who show themselves as undeserving.

[kangarunner]

I put out a new video in my tiny, small channel. It's unbelievable to me when I put out a new video and I literally keep it real. I don't say anything offensive at all. In fact, I try to keep it real and help people. No one watches my videos anyway, but for the ones who do I try to keep it real. Anyway, the video got 5 upvotes and 5 downvotes. Unbelievable that my video gets 5 downvotes. Little motherfuckers who have no life in America, hate their shitty boring lives, and see my video and downvote it like a bunch of faggots.

This is the #1 reason why I choose to associate with non-Westerners. All you faggots in the US are little sweet boys who whine and complain. You hate your meaningless, nothing lives.

[galii]

I put out a new video in my tiny, small channel. It's unbelievable to me when I put out a new video and I literally keep it real. I don't say anything offensive at all. In fact, I try to keep it real and help people. No one watches my videos anyway, but for the ones who do I try to keep it real. Anyway, the video got 5 upvotes and 5 downvotes. Unbelievable that my video gets 5 downvotes. Little motherfuckers who have no life in America, hate their shitty boring lives, and see my video and downvote it like a bunch of faggots.

This is the #1 reason why I choose to associate with non-Westerners. All you faggots in the US are little sweet boys who whine and complain. You hate your meaningless, nothing lives.

You are more toxic than the average American. I know you know it too.

[yick]

I put out a new video in my tiny, small channel. It's unbelievable to me when I put out a new video and I literally keep it real. I don't say anything offensive at all. In fact, I try to keep it real and help people. No one watches my videos anyway, but for the ones who do I try to keep it real. Anyway, the video got 5 upvotes and 5 downvotes. Unbelievable that my video gets 5 downvotes. Little motherfuckers who have no life in America, hate their shitty boring lives, and see my video and downvote it like a bunch of faggots.

This is the #1 reason why I choose to associate with non-Westerners. All you faggots in the US are little sweet boys who whine and complain. You hate your meaningless, nothing lives.

You are more toxic than the average American. I know you know it too.

I think it is his mental afflictions talking rather than toxicity, it comes out as toxic but he needs to deal with his self admitted mental afflictions to be able to move on and away from the toxicity.

There is a lot of toxicity amongst a lot of people back home (wherever that is for you (plural)) he's right, they don't like their lives, their relationships but they can't seem to see a way out, a way forward, a way to break free, they are chained up to the system - mortgage, kids, debts, marriages, families - roots - roots are great aren't they? But no, they stop you from being able to escape and then you become toxic as you realise that you have little recourse to where your life leads you to.

Some of it is a lack of courage, a lack of guts to change their lives - I understand why the toxicity exists but no-one is going to change it for them except themselves, he is right to say those people are toxic.

[yick]

He needs to move on from his past, the mental tapeworm that affects many people, leading some to commit suicide - he needs to realise those people from the past are not part of now, not part of his future - f**k them! He is living in Vietnam and having a great time - his supervisor at the sawmill isn't there - f**k him, f**k the bullies at school, his first girlfriend who dumped him for the star quarterback and everyone else who has done bad by him - now, today, it's good.

[publicduende]

He needs to move on from his past, the mental tapeworm that affects many people, leading some to commit suicide - he needs to realise those people from the past are not part of now, not part of his future - f**k them! He is living in Vietnam and having a great time - his supervisor at the sawmill isn't there - f**k him, f**k the bullies at school, his first girlfriend who dumped him for the star quarterback and everyone else who has done bad by him - now, today, it's good.

I see where he is coming from because that's exactly how I felt when I arrived in the Philippines in 2015. f**k the UK, f**k the City, f**k my ex-wife, f**k the old me... Vice-versa, Davao and its people were Paradise and its Angels, literally. Dipping myself in a lot of sex like I would have never even dared to imagine back in England, yes, that was an adrenaline rush that biased every thought of mine.

However, sex or no sex, over time I obviously rebalanced my ideas, I had to. Suddenly life in Davao and the Philippines didn't look so rosy anymore and my life routine in London, however loathed, started to make some sense again.

In the end, as everybody with a measure of intellect and good judgment does, one adapts and tries to get the good elements from all of his knowledge and life experience. By not tout-court denying my connections in London I managed to get my first few clients, which allowed me to get London wages living in Davao, and then Manila. Then find clients here, who are supporting my company and like the way I bring "London kind of IT experience" in this godforsaken place, where all the best intellects have left and there's few people of caliber to run it.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

He needs to move on from his past, the mental tapeworm that affects many people, leading some to commit suicide - he needs to realise those people from the past are not part of now, not part of his future - f**k them! He is living in Vietnam and having a great time - his supervisor at the sawmill isn't there - f**k him, f**k the bullies at school, his first girlfriend who dumped him for the star quarterback and everyone else who has done bad by him - now, today, it's good.

I see where he is coming from because that's exactly how I felt when I arrived in the Philippines in 2015. f**k the UK, f**k the City, f**k my ex-wife, f**k the old me... Vice-versa, Davao and its people were Paradise and its Angels, literally. Dipping myself in a lot of sex like I would have never even dared to imagine back in England, yes, that was an adrenaline rush that biased every thought of mine.

However, sex or no sex, over time I obviously rebalanced my ideas, I had to. Suddenly life in Davao and the Philippines didn't look so rosy anymore and my life routine in London, however loathed, started to make some sense again.

In the end, as everybody with a measure of intellect and good judgment does, one adapts and tries to get the good elements from all of his knowledge and life experience. By not tout-court denying my connections in London I managed to get my first few clients, which allowed me to get London wages living in Davao, and then Manila. Then find clients here, who are supporting my company and like the way I bring "London kind of IT experience" in this godforsaken place, where all the best intellects have left and there's few people of caliber to run it.

I'm glad you are doing god's work then. Providing Enterprise IT to Filipinos.

[publicduende]

I'm glad you are doing god's work then. Providing Enterprise IT to Filipinos.

LOL I don't know if I would call it God's work. It's "honest to God" work in the sense that we're not twisting their arms, overpromising and/or underdelivering as most local companies here do.

It pays our bills, at least...

And like most things in life, it's here today, gone tomorrow!

[publicduende]

With all you said above and your last paragraph, I have to ask you why you continue to live there? Would @MarcosZeitola agree with you?

P.S. I'm saving this post for future reference.

I continue to live here because I managed to create my own niche. Not a large niche (near-zero social life), but one where I can make some money and build something that will hopefully outlast the few very fuzzy and uncertain years ahead. At least I live in a small-ish yet cozy condo, and have couple more I am renting out for profit, all mortgage-free. I run an IT business, which provides me a lot of hard work and a semblance of a purposeful existence.

Plus I have a wife, someone who is not perfect yet understand and embraces my imperfection. A trusted co-pilot, someone who very convincingly showed me she gives two and half shits about me. This day and age, this is a lot more than a 50-yo divorcee can expect from life, anywhere on the planet.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

With all you said above and your last paragraph, I have to ask you why you continue to live there? Would @MarcosZeitola agree with you?

P.S. I'm saving this post for future reference.

I continue to live here because I managed to create my own niche. Not a large niche (near-zero social life), but one where I can make some money and build something that will hopefully outlast the few very fuzzy and uncertain years ahead. At least I live in a small-ish yet cozy condo, and have couple more I am renting out for profit, all mortgage-free. I run an IT business, which provides me a lot of hard work and a semblance of a purposeful existence.

Plus I have a wife, someone who is not perfect yet understand and embraces my imperfection. A trusted co-pilot, someone who very convincingly showed me she gives two and half shits about me. This day and age, this is a lot more than a 50-yo divorcee can expect from life, anywhere on the planet.

Cheers to you and congratulations! I'm really glad that your doing well at least.

[publicduende]

Cheers to you and congratulations! I'm really glad that your doing well at least.

Thanks @Natural_Born_Cynic...lots of un-cynical and perfectly-natural cheering from you! You may have a nickname that spells "cognitive dissonance" right there

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Cheers to you and congratulations! I'm really glad that your doing well at least.

Thanks @Natural_Born_Cynic...lots of un-cynical and perfectly-natural cheering from you! You may have a nickname that spells "cognitive dissonance" right there

No my friend, my psyche is fine. At least I'm cheering for you. Your one of the good ones here and your worth it. And I told you, I'm wasn't always a cynic. I was a happy slappy friendly guy when I was a young, but life in USA totally f*cked me up and turned around my personality 180 degrees.
So, I maybe cynical on the outside, but I open up to those who I think is worth it. Take it as a compliment. I know you don't get that a lot especially in here and in real life.