American Expat Considers Returning Home

[Taco]

One of the problems moving to a third world country is adapting to conditions that are considerably more difficult than what your used to.

American Expat Considers Returning Home
http://henrymakow.com/2014/07/american- ... iders.html

[Jester]

Thanks for the post.

I like Kathleen Petticord and other expat real estate salespeople, but the hype they spew does get tiresome.

"Panama Panama Panama."

"Ecuador Ecuador Ecuador"

I mean puh-LEEZ.

If expat-ing, and not some kind of weirdo hippie, why not choose a REAL country?

Someplace where you can DO something, LIVE, maybe even PARTICIPATE?

A dead giveaway is when the real estate hucksters yammer on about local "CULTURE". That usually means 2-wheeled oxcarts with ridiculous bullseye-painted wheels, or useless clay-geegaw idols with huge lips and ears. NOTHING I EVER WANT TO SEE.

Panama is a special case, a self-feeding critical mass black-hole of expat stupidity. The cheap-ass morons there actually brag about the DISCOUNTS they get on movie tickets. Talk about a pathetic lifestyle.

If all I had to look forward to was the Old Codger plate at the Panamanian equivalent of Denny's restaurant, I would just shoot myself.

OH, but you CAN get a really nice house IN THE MIDDLE OF f***ing NOWHERE -- if you BUY NOW.

[MrPeabody]

If you follow the herd led by the pied piper International Real Estate agents who buy land cheap in third world countries and then sell it to gullible gringos by covering up the negatives, you probably aren't going to end up too happy. I actually think expating for retirees is not a smart move because they can find places in the US which will end up being cheaper once you accurately account for the entire costs. There are plenty of cheap places in the Midwest. In a third world country, you will be paying a premium price to keep safe and have the conveniences of home. Additionally, you will have to pay a courier or use expensive Fed Ex and other services to get your mail, since mail in most of these countries is too unreliable or nonexistent. Then there is the irritation of not speaking the language. So, you are paying a premium to live in a fort surrounded by hostile natives and paying people to do things you could do yourself in the US. And then there are the visa and moving expenses. The US is cheaper and has excellent infrastructure. And since a retiree has Medicare in the US, leaving just doesn't make economic sense.

For me, it is cheaper to live in Mexico, but I had to work at it. I moved 8 times until I found a winner and have two Internets setup on wireless so that when one goes down my computer automatically switches to the other and I don't even notice it. I also have been able to find good doctors and finally got a good dentist, which saves a lot of money.

[davewe]

If you look at the Philippines, where I am most interested, there is a constant stream of expats who return home for a wide variety of reasons. But most of them boil down to the difficulty of adjusting to a new and alien environment. Guys think they are going to a culture that is just like the US, except cheaper with hotter girls.

And yes it is cheaper and does have hotter girls. But ultimately if the only reason you move is to save cash you will be disappointed. I am closing in on retirement and saving money is an important issue, but my prime goal is to live a life different from the one I have in the US.

If an American needs to live in a gated community, eat his fave American foods, drive his new car, hit his favorite bars nightly - then it's not gonna be cheaper. If he learns to modify his lifestyle and enjoy what that foreign country has to offer - then he has a chance to improve his life.

Of course first you have to get off your ass and get out there - which most people won't do.

[Yohan]

Guys think they are going to a culture that is just like the US, except cheaper with hotter girls.
.....
If an American needs to live in a gated community, eat his fave American foods, drive his new car, hit his favorite bars nightly - then it's not gonna be cheaper.

Living in Asia since 1972, in Japan since 1976 and travelling frequently to Philippines and Thailand, Malaysia and Cambodia, what shall I say?

It's all about how much money do you really have, and if you are able to control your spending.

Some men are hopeless dreamers, with the idea 'my bargirl is different' and similar BS.

If you arrive in Philippines or elsewhere here in Asia with 'hot girls' and 'favorite bars' in your mind as an American or European man, you will be surprised how much money you need, and after not such a long time, rather bankrupt, such misinformed men are again heading back to their own country... not a nice feeling to sit in an airplane back to work.

Most Asian countries welcome foreigners as tourists and sometimes for retirement, but there is not much money to earn in these places and Asian countries are not known to offer working permits easily. It often goes wrong, either heading back home, or living in poverty in so-called 'Asian dream countries' with persistent troubles about visa, no health care, poor food etc.

Western men often think they can live as cheap as Asian locals, but this is wrong. They also think sometimes, they have to help 'poor Asian women and their poor children'... Finally they end up alone, all money missing.

Relocation is not easy, better plan it in advance by visiting the country of choice as a tourist and check it out slowly, or try to split your time between your native country and your choice of relocation at least for the beginning.

Not so many Americans, but Scandinavian men are well-known to choose this way of life: cold winter in warm Asian countries up to 4 or 5 months, and working back in the own country as seasonal worker for about 6 to 7 months to avoid to run out of money.

[OutWest]

Guys think they are going to a culture that is just like the US, except cheaper with hotter girls.
.....
If an American needs to live in a gated community, eat his fave American foods, drive his new car, hit his favorite bars nightly - then it's not gonna be cheaper.

Living in Asia since 1972, in Japan since 1976 and travelling frequently to Philippines and Thailand, Malaysia and Cambodia, what shall I say?

It's all about how much money do you really have, and if you are able to control your spending.

Some men are hopeless dreamers, with the idea 'my bargirl is different' and similar BS.

If you arrive in Philippines or elsewhere here in Asia with 'hot girls' and 'favorite bars' in your mind as an American or European man, you will be surprised how much money you need, and after not such a long time, rather bankrupt, such misinformed men are again heading back to their own country... not a nice feeling to sit in an airplane back to work.

Most Asian countries welcome foreigners as tourists and sometimes for retirement, but there is not much money to earn in these places and Asian countries are not known to offer working permits easily. It often goes wrong, either heading back home, or living in poverty in so-called 'Asian dream countries' with persistent troubles about visa, no health care, poor food etc.

Western men often think they can live as cheap as Asian locals, but this is wrong. They also think sometimes, they have to help 'poor Asian women and their poor children'... Finally they end up alone, all money missing.

Relocation is not easy, better plan it in advance by visiting the country of choice as a tourist and check it out slowly, or try to split your time between your native country and your choice of relocation at least for the beginning.

Not so many Americans, but Scandinavian men are well-known to choose this way of life: cold winter in warm Asian countries up to 4 or 5 months, and working back in the own country as seasonal worker for about 6 to 7 months to avoid to run out of money.

LOL... "My bar girl is different..." That sums up about half the American men I see in the Philippines.

[Jester]

Thanks to the OP and the others posting here.

This is a great thread.

God is in the details.

[Jester]

duplicate post

[Taco]

Guys think they are going to a culture that is just like the US, except cheaper with hotter girls.
.....
If an American needs to live in a gated community, eat his fave American foods, drive his new car, hit his favorite bars nightly - then it's not gonna be cheaper.

Relocation is not easy, better plan it in advance by visiting the country of choice as a tourist and check it out slowly, or try to split your time between your native country and your choice of relocation at least for the beginning.

Not so many Americans, but Scandinavian men are well-known to choose this way of life: cold winter in warm Asian countries up to 4 or 5 months, and working back in the own country as seasonal worker for about 6 to 7 months to avoid to run out of money.

That's not a bad idea. I've been looking at the requirements to bring my Filipina wife and son back to Canada and its ridiculous to say the least. Canada is the most difficult country in the world to bring your spouse to.

1. Immigration Consultant $2500 to $3000, if she does all the paper work and it does not guarantee the application will be approved
2. Immigration Fee $1100
3. Flight to Canada for 2 people $3000
2. 80 to 100 pages of documents to prepare plus photos

[davewe]

Guys think they are going to a culture that is just like the US, except cheaper with hotter girls.
.....
If an American needs to live in a gated community, eat his fave American foods, drive his new car, hit his favorite bars nightly - then it's not gonna be cheaper.

Relocation is not easy, better plan it in advance by visiting the country of choice as a tourist and check it out slowly, or try to split your time between your native country and your choice of relocation at least for the beginning.

Not so many Americans, but Scandinavian men are well-known to choose this way of life: cold winter in warm Asian countries up to 4 or 5 months, and working back in the own country as seasonal worker for about 6 to 7 months to avoid to run out of money.

That's not a bad idea. I've been looking at the requirements to bring my Filipina wife and son back to Canada and its ridiculous to say the least. Canada is the most difficult country in the world to bring your spouse to.

1. Immigration Consultant $2500 to $3000, if she does all the paper work and it does not guarantee the application will be approved
2. Immigration Fee $1100
3. Flight to Canada for 2 people $3000
2. 80 to 100 pages of documents to prepare plus photos

Most people don't hire the immigration consultants/attorneys. Every thing else you stated it exactly the same as in the US. Yes, it's a process and yes it takes time and cash, but it is doable.

[Yohan]

I've been looking at the requirements to bring my Filipina wife and son back to Canada and its ridiculous to say the least. Canada is the most difficult country in the world to bring your spouse to.

UK is also known as rather restrictive, Norway is not known to welcome spouses, USA is not known to be friendly and helpful if you bring a foreign wife from a developing country into its territory.

it seems out of the developed countries, EU-region is still the easiest. I know about UK-citizens who settled down in France with their Asian wife to escape UK procedures and fees.

For my family, we never had problems. EU - Japan are fairly open to each other.

This is maybe worth a discussion to open a new thread.

-----

This thread is more about a man from USA, leaving to developing countries and after a while he wants to go home, back from where he come from. I think these people are not very flexible. Relocation is not only about either in USA or in Latin America, you can share your stay 50/50. Why not to get on an airplane every 6 months or so? Keep your full secure social status in Canada or USA, Germany or Norway etc. and spend up to not over 6 months overseas. Overseas you are a tourist, in your own country a resident, such a legal status is quite reasonable, as cheap countries, like Thailand or in this article Panama etc. are not very politically stable.

To keep a small room in your own country is not a bad idea. This is your 'permanent' address, even if you are abroad for a while.

-----

If you ask around, you will be surprised how many from Europe and also from some countries in Asia like this life-style.

In my retirement place, in the condominium building where I have my apartment in Thailand, many of my neighbors are living 50 percent in the own country and 50 percent in Thailand - they are holding citizenship of Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Canada, but there are also some Asians from Taiwan, South Korea, Japan.

They all stay during wintertime in Thailand - life is clearly cheaper considering costs for heating, winter clothings - better wait it out for a few months, enjoy swimming pool, some nightlife in a tropical region ... South Korea or Norway during winter-time? No way.

However we all agree, it is not only about the money saving up by doing some work in your own native country, and it is not only about winter-time. If you stay in places like Thailand or nearby Cambodia, you will agree after a while, this is not really an intelligent society, it's getting boring and you are getting stupid. You have to go out for a while!

It seems best is to move back to the own country for a while, do some simple work, it can be part-time, seasonal work etc. whatever you find and it should be for 6+ months to be eligible for medical care, jobless money, retirement allowance when passing 65 etc.

A good example how to do it over many years is my German neighbor. He is not specially intelligent, but got the idea. He is only a simple construction worker, mostly working for tiles (kitchen, bathroom etc.) -

Divorce: his wife took everything from him, but in Germany alimony is limited with 3 years after divorce. No payments anymore from him to her.

He knows some companies near his native Frankfurt, Germany and he keeps a tiny condominium unit there (his own room, not a rent, only 26 m2) - and yes, he has a Thai girlfriend, of course no marriage (tourist visa is OK for him, he needs no Thai spouse visa for longstay) - he is in Pattaya and when the dry hot season is starting in April in this tropical region he is back to Germany working, and when it is getting cold in Germany around October, he is back in Thailand for long vacation - after claiming one extra month jobless money (this is OK after working 6 full months) and this solution works well for him since over 10 years.

One neighbor from Canada is retired, he has a retirement permit for Thailand for 1 year, but one time a year he is also out for some months to Vancouver, doing some part-time work in a bookkeeping/tax office to keep his retirement status/medical insurance in Canada alive - and not in a hurry, with some extra money, he will show up again in Pattaya after living in Vancouver for more than 3 months, 2 trips per year, totally 6+ months away from Thailand.

About myself, I am still working full-time in Japan, with an European contract. Good income, 100 percent legal. I have the right for 6 weeks fully paid vacation, collect additional days because of overtime, and at least 3 times for 2 to 3 weeks per trip I and my wife are in our condominium-unit in Thailand. It will be a longer stay of course in Thailand after final retirement within the next 3 years, but we see no reason, why we should stay totally out of Japan and only live in Thailand. - Airplanes are plenty, not so expensive, travel is easy, why not?

[eurobrat]

it seems out of the developed countries, EU-region is still the easiest. I know about UK-citizens who settled down in France with their Asian wife to escape UK procedures and fees.

LOL! Yea right, Italy is by far the worst as is the rest of the EU. Ask Think Different is married to an Italian with a kid and they wouldn't even get him a visa!

The US is the best for bringing a wife back to.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

You don't just move to a country that you "heard" was good. This guy had little idea what he was getting into and now has buyer's remorse.

To expat to a country, you must know it is actually for you first. Spend summers there and rule out other countries/regions before you settle on one.

I can tell you that almost anywhere promoted as a retirement haven or an expat haven is a thumbs down for me. Panama is on that list.

[Yohan]

LOL! Yea right, Italy is by far the worst as is the rest of the EU. Ask Think Different is married to an Italian with a kid and they wouldn't even get him a visa!
The US is the best for bringing a wife back to.

USA is not an easy country, it even has restriction regarding introduction related to international dating so-called IMBRA regulation, a part of VAWA. Long waiting time and paperwork, but not expensive.

UK is maybe worst, visa procedure is expensive.

For sure if you enter EU, you can enter by other countries too, using the Schengen visa. You can travel without restriction within EU.
As I said, there are UK nationals, who bring their Asian wife first into EU and after to UK, as it is easier than to apply for UK somewhere in Bangkok or Manila.

About what nationality are you talking? Many citizens can enter the Schengen region even without a visa.

Luckily my family has no problem, EU - Japan relationship is very good.

[Mr S]

I think the problem with many expats is they visit very few countries or they just hop on a plane and move to one because they read a bunch of positive stuff about it online. One HAS to visit numerous countries and live in them for a period of time to determine how he/she meshes with the local culture and way of life.

I've been living in PI now for 10 years and all of that in god forsaken metro Manila area. Do I like Manila? Not necessarily, but I've had to deal with worse places to live in my life and Manila is tolerable if you know how to adapt or are WILLING to, that's the main key.

I personally think Philippines is one of the easiest non-Western countries to move and live in long-term if you are an English speaker. Most of the guys that can't handle it and move back to their home countries are whiners who expect Filipinos to act and do things like a westerner would because they can speak rudimentary English.

The main issues I have to deal with that I don't like are traffic, pollution, street kids/beggars, food selection, humidity and bad customer service. Now these do suck but they aren't necessarily deal breakers for me anyways. There are other things I don't like, but they aren't a make or break thing for me so I won't mention them, everyone has different things they can tolerate or handle in life and some have a higher tolerance level than others. Things are getting slightly better, although at a snails pace, but it is noticeable in comparison to ten years ago. However, this is why its good for older expats cause the wheels of time and change move so slowly here, most older guys find it easier to deal with since many people over a certain age don't like rapid change.

After being in the Navy on a floating prison ship from hell for four years, most anything else is a walk in the park so living in metro Manila and dealing with all its BS isn't really that big a deal in comparison to what I dealt with back in the US Navy. I do get to travel to the other major cities regularly and many of them would probably be preferable to Manila but I have to live here for work reasons and it's superior variety of private school options for children in comparison to provincial cities.

In the future I will find maybe another one or two countries to hop to and live occasionally in conjunction with the Philippines. The trick is just to find the ones that you best vibe with and go from there. Don't take all the stuff you read about particular countries seriously, use them as info only cause everyone will have their own positive/negative experiences based on how well they fit into the culture and adapt.

I found the Philippines easy to adapt to, others would have a great difficult time. Ideally, if you can live a whole year in one place to observe its transition through the year that would be the best way to get a feel for a country. I would say living over 2 years is enough time to truly understand whether one likes a place to stay there long term or not. Obviously, many will know they hate a place sooner than that, I'm talking about fence sitters or those who think they love a place after just visiting somewhere for a few weeks or months.

That dude in PANAMA should move to the Philippines, ha ha. He'd probably love it here if he is just tolerating Panama. Plus PI has a decent private education system if you know where to go and do your due diligence. Plus, it's probably one of the easiest countries to get perpetual visas for if you're not a resident and you can also let your kids study here as well as long as you can afford it all. Plus he is a super Bible banger so he would fit right in with some of the churches and people here, like he could join Iglesia Ni Cristo who are super whacko Bible fundamentalist cultists: http://www.iglesianicristowebsite.com/

I just wish there were lightly curvier women here that had minds that thought outside the box. They exist here, but are extremely rare to find. Usually you can't find both it's either one or the other, ugly with brains or beautiful with rocks for brains.