I understand what you mean Duende, and yes, 95% of people would agree with you and think "why in the hell would any respectable man want to marry a ho"? The thing is, I don't judge someone for that as long as they are doing it becuase they couldn't find any other type of work and are trying to simply support their family. It's so easy for us westerners to "judge" these girls becuase we live in societies that have safety nets and where jobs are plentiful, anyone in America can get a job albeit a low level fast food job or whatever. But in a country like the Philippines, reality is different. Life is hard. A filipino can't just go get a job anytime they want like an American can such as Walmart of a fast food joint. So, no, I have no problem with a girl who is only doing that job out of pure necessity and survival, and in fact, I admire her willingness to do a job like that which she probably would very much rather not have to do if she could find other work. I'm not saying all filipina bargirls are only doing it out of necessity, but a great many are doing whatever they have to do to buy food and medicine and maybe even some education so that her brothers and sisters can better their future as the loop of poverty is extremely hard to break, much more so than in western countries. So Ya see, I dont judge a girl just becuase she does that job. However, I wouldn't touch a american woman doing this type of work becuase in America, she HAS OPTIONS and doing it isn't a necessith for survival like it often is in the Philippines and other 3rd world countries where jobs are very hard to come by. Westerners are all to easy to think from their cozy easy way of life point of view which makes it easy to judge such occupations. Maybe if us westerners lived their life and experienced 1st hand the hardship of no food or no medicine, and the sheer misery of inescapable poverty, maybe we wouldnt be so quick to judge all bar girls as ho's. To me, it totally depends on her circumstances and why she is doing it. Did she have other options or was she just wanting easy money to party with and buy nice things with ?publicduende wrote:I don't doubt many bargirls are just girls from poor backgrounds, average-looking to pretty, who don't mind having sex with multiple men to support their young kids or families. I don't doubt some (of many) of them will be happy, if not eager, to display genuine affection and create a bond with some of their punters. At worst, it gives them a chance to choose the more decent, more respectful and better looking men (as you by no doubt are) as their repeat customers. At best, it gives them a shot at winning the heart of one or two of them, who could them give them bona-fide financial support or even marry them and be their get out of misery ticket.steve55 wrote:Duende, that's not necessarily true. Unless you've been there, you can't fully know the truth. Most of the time, the girls actually like thie guy if he is kind and nice to her and not some 400 pound smelly slob. I've talked to these girls and over and over again, the bar girls told me that they "enjoy" the sex and partying and hanging out with the guys who bar fine them. And how do you explain that on two different occasions I had bar girls shed tears when I came by to say bye to them as I was leaving back to the US. In my honest genuine feeling, the attention the girls pay to the guys is usually genuine. You got to understand that yes, the girls are at the bar to get paid but also the bar environment is simply a conduit which brought the guy and girl together and after that, it's up to the guy and girl how things go. Girls have the right to decline a bar fine and often they do. What's that tell you ? There is a lot of choice by the girls which means they go with guys if they like him. This is what the girls have told me directly.
Most bargirls are just there to offer the best of what they have, which as we know isn't just their bodies and cute smiles, but that sweet and naive femininity that can groom the ego of the low self-esteem, sexually-frustrated average Western man to dizzy heights. That's what I am sure Winston fell in love with, as he roamed the AC bargirl scene: he's surely a few notches better than the 50+, fat and nasty man and could easily command more charm, more attention and probably some of the cuter girls. Plus he had the time and money, so he was the proverbial boy in a candy store with his mommy's purse full of dollars.
Still, it's hoes we're talking about, Steve. Maybe not everybody's girls, if they can choose who they want to be barfined and taken home by, but several men's girls. Of course they would have to tell you (like everybody else) they "enjoy being with you", it's part of the storyline. And it's probably true that, given a choice, they would be much rather barfined by you than by a 400 pound smelly slob.
Maybe so Steve, but given the fact that it's still easy enough to find a cute young woman who is not rock-bottom destitute, has a decent education and maybe a decent job, why take the risk with an AC bargirl? Any man worth his salt, no matter how old and mediocre looking, can be introduced one of such girls, or start a chat with her in the mall or in a legit nightlife situation, or just meet her through one of the many dating sites. Are some people really so lazy they prefer to choose their prospective gf or wife from a meat buffet where they wear skimpy outfits and colourful numbers? That sounds off to me, especially if they have a measure of dignity and savoir faire with the ladies?steve55 wrote:Now, that isn' to say that sometimes the girls wouldnt have dated the guy if they weren't being paid to be at the bar (since they would maybe have other dating options and other things to do). The fact is that these girls are so nice that it isn't hard for them to like a man in these situations, even if it's a barfine that brought them together. Filipinas really arnt nearly as picky as western women so it's pretty easy for them to like just about any guy who is nice.
Last but not least, consider one thing. Mr Jones could be falling in love and put a ring on an AC bargirl's finger and live with her in the US in virtual isolation, with almost nobody knowing who she is and what she did. If he plans to spend some time living in the Philippines, a naturally gregarious (and nosy and judgemental) society, as a Westerner romantically involved with an ex-bargirl he will receive very little respect by his local community. Maybe people in AC are used to sexpats and mongers living in the area with their young bar scene catches, but cities like Davao or smaller villages will not see that with the same lenient eyes. When I was in Davao I heard of foreigners who were even established businessmen but were known for their lewd womanising and were hated at worst and isolated at best in any social situation. No decent family wo0uld want to have anything to do with them, which would push them further down in the gutter when it came to their dating options.
steve55 wrote:The bar serves as a way for the guy and girl to get together, and once a filipina is with a guy for "any" reason how they met, even a barfine, it is extremely easy for the girls to "go" with it and have a sincere genuine good time and good sex with you. Hell dude, I could hardly get rid of the girls I barfined the next day. I had to "kick" them out most times!! That doesn't sound like a 100% "money only" thing to me, does it to you ? Half the time, the girls would stay with me days after for free!! They would give me their number and date me without expecting anything afterwards. Such a thing Is not uncommon. How do you explain that or explain their shedding tears when you simply come by to say goodbye? It's not as if they thought faking tears was going to bring a tip from me.
My first fiancé was a bargirl by the way, and lots of American men marry bargirls too. I personally witnessed an ameircan guy i met at my hotel who I buddied around with end up marrying a bar girl. I was there when they met, when she was on stage! He sent me wedding photos later. It's easy for men to blindly say "it's fake affections becuase the guy is paying for the barfine" . Guys who think that do not know the Philippines. Maybe it's that way in colombia (your stomping ground) and America duende , but the Filipinas are nothing like American women who have no feelings for guys who pay for their lap dance or whatever . Many of these Filipinas are fresh from the farm so to speak, so especially at first, they feel good to be with a man even if it's arranged from working at a bar. Well, that's my two cents worth.
Sure, the bar serves as a conduit, yet I can think of so many other better conduits for social interaction and romantic involvement. Again, besides the curiosity to explore and a desire to placate momentary horniness, I don't understand why a decent man would take his chances on bargirl when there are so many better options.
I don't judge you for having a bargirl ex-gf Steve, but let me say I respect you a lot more now you have chosen a sweet and feminine yet morally sound and smart Filipina as your fiancee. I wish you all the luck you deserve.
And what if you yourself were in a situation of agonizing poverty and no one in the family was in a position to escape it or lift them out of it, but you have the option of being a sex worker to pay for your sister's nursing schooling or her degree in education so she can work as a teacher which would give you hope to break the poverty cycle? What if your mother had a disease , perhaps a life threatening one, and the ONLY option you have to save her life or to save her form daily suffering and pain would be to be a sex worker (probably only temporarily) to solve one of these aforementioned dilemmas??? Will you let your mother suffer or even possibly die? Really? What if that nursing or teaching degree offered the only hope for an entire family to be lifted out of agonizing poverty? Will you not consider sacrificing yourself out of LOVE to help them? Man, westernere are really so easy to judge, not having any clue what these girls life is like. So for me, it really does depend. An American girl is never in these circumstances so I would never consider dating or marrying one who chose to do this type of work. But I'm willing to bet that up to 60% of these poverty stricken 3rd world ho's are in a "necessity" situation and do it as a sacrifice out of love and responsibility of taking care of someone in their family. I Don't know about you guys, but I have no problem with that. I actually admire and respect such a sacrifice when that's truthfully the only reason the girl is doing what she is doing.
And lastly, to be very honest, I'd much rather marry the average sweet filipina bar girl than many american women of today any day. I personally feel that these bar girls are kinder, sweeter, a hell of a lot more genuine and giving , and way less materialistic than the average American feminist woman of today's generation. Not to say I couldn't just search for a good american woman, as some do exist (mostly already taken though or otherwise overweight) but as difficult as it has been for me to find a ht/wt prop attractive good quality woman not infected with selfish narcissistic materialsitic feminsits values, I wouldn't have any problem marrying a bar girl if I had to, one doing it temporarily out of necessity as described previously in my post) I've found many bar girls to be quality women who I'd have no problem having a serious relationship with. Again, everything depended, depends, and depends. I don't judge instantly just becuase she is a bar girl. And these reasons are why I don't think of them as ho's even if they technically meet the definition as by the book. It's derogatory and in my opinion doesn't appropriately apply to all of these girls who do what they have to do out of necessity or LOVE to help her family.
And duende, I agree that a guy is far better off avoiding the bars if he is wife hunting. I'm just sayin, if he "just so happens" to check out the bar scene and finds a girl he REALLY likes, it may be worth looking into albeit more riskier situation.
I said killed 
Since when did religion or even morals in that regard come into your life? lol