John Nada Warning

[WontGetFooledAgain]

Yesterday, I posted a warning on Ripoff Report about Nada:

http://tinyurl.com/2ga45rx

I'd like to follow up with the following comments.

1. First, a big thanks to Winston for encouraging me to come forward.

2. Yes, I was an idiot to shell out hundreds of bucks for information that is available for free online. Feel free to tell me so (although I wish you wouldn't!), but keep in mind that I've already crucified myself, so to speak, so you won't be doing anything that I haven't already done to myself. All I can say is that at the time of purchase, I was depressed and anxious, and accordingly made an irrational decision. My handle, which is the same at Ripoff Report as it is here, displays my resolve to ensure there will be no repeat performances of this sort.

3. It may seem curious to some that I posted the warning at Ripoff Report under MLM, but as I see it, Nada is operating a pyramid scheme of sorts. After all, my report makes clear that one ends up not only paying a bundle for all of his services, but is encouraged to keep on paying him for as long as he promises to deliver 'valuable' information. One ends up forking over so much money that eventually, in gambling terms, one either walks away from the table, or doubles down, with the latter referring to creating a 'downline' of one's own. With the inevitable high turnover associated with any scheme that, no matter how much one offers, is recruitment-based rather than product-based, one finds oneself turning to one's mentor, who sits atop the pinnacle of his own pyramid as well as occupies levels on others' pyramids, for guidance in both better recruitment and higher levels of retention. Of course, the mentor obliges, for prices that may well become increasingly steep. To buttress this claim, I recall that Nada mentioned that he knows of a mastermind course that costs 25K, with the understanding that we were lucky to be part of his mastermind course for a cost that was much less.

[Adama]

**i do not like the MRA entitlement issues.
The underlying, pervasive
'anti-free market' vibe that make SOME automatically
suspicious of anyone marketing information
to this community.

People don't value free information. Look at how some tear down
Marc Rudov. No, he's not perfect and i don't
agree with everything he says, but at least
he puts his ass on the line and he practically
BEGS in every email to get guys to support him.

God forbid anyone should *sell* products to MRAs--
as if something is 'owed' to them simply
because we've both been ran through the
Entitlement Feminist Gauntlet.

9/10 times when good information is given away,
it's consumed and tossed to the side like a comic book--the
'meh' factor. Because free information cannot be quantified
with a value.

To hell with that. MRAs should let the
market determine the value and either invest
the money, the time or the sweat equity to
get the results they desire.

LOL, at times the entitled whinging comes across
more socialist than the regimes complained
about.

http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum/index. ... pid=492869

**sure i sell information.
but my point of view is bizarre
because i state a fact-based observation?

the entitlement attitude of some MRAs ignores
the basic rudiments of Economics:
that there is no such thing as
a free lunch. somehow, somewhere,
the transfer has a cost. be it money,
time or sweat equity. often times, all 3.

so wherein lies the problem
if there is a fair exchange of
VALUE between parties? that's
basic free market economy at work.
last time i checked, most of us here lived
in the Capitalist West. or am I
mistaken?

i have a problem with those who
expect everything handed to them
on a silver platter for free, and begin
to have entitlement problems and trying
massive guilt trips with me when
it's not. (which, incidentally almost
ALWAYS happens once lots of free
content is given away, but i do it
anyway.)

as long as VALUE is provided
and both parties are happy with the
exchange, what's wrong with selling
product-even in the (gasp!) MRA market?

not sure if you've read it or not,
but i highly recommend reading
Rand's classic, 'Atlas Shrugged'.

[globetrotter]

People don't value free information. Look at how some tear down
Marc Rudov. No, he's not perfect and i don't
agree with everything he says, but at least
he puts his ass on the line and he practically
BEGS in every email to get guys to support him.

9/10 times when good information is given away,
it's consumed and tossed to the side like a comic book--the
'meh' factor. Because free information cannot be quantified
with a value.

I strongly disagree. The most valuable lessons I have ever learned were from learning from the mistakes and stories of others on DGM 2.o and other fora. I have dozens of anecdotes accumulated over decades of conversations that I have filed away. With each one my store of knowledge becomes larger, I become smarter, and my actions become more alacritous.

BTW, the time men put in to surf to sites, research them, cull valuable opinions and save them to text files is work thus they pay for it with their time.

Time is the most valuable commodity of all.

[MrPeabody]

Hi Wontgetfooledagain. I am really sorry to here about your loss. It took courage for you to post this. It would really be useful if you could also post this on the Niceguy forum, He was targeting this forum at one time, and may be where he got some of his victims from.

[Winston]

Did you use PayPal or a credit card to pay him? If so, you might be able to file a dispute with them over the charges you were scammed out of?

Your report is very damaging. I'm surprised there are con artists in the global dating movement now.

I'd like to post your report here too.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/multi-level ... -83749.htm

Report: John Nada

Reported By: WontGetFooledAgain72 (Julian Pennsylvania)
United States of America
John Nada Expat Course a Ripoff, Nada Targets Desperate Men with Offers of "Solutions" That Are WAY Overpriced, Internet

Internet
United States of America
Phone:
Web Address: http://www.goingghost.com, http://www.fugitiveslave.com

Category: Multi-Level Marketing

Submitted: Saturday, May 01, 2010
Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010

Several months ago, I was in the midst of a rough period personally, one that had me considering moving overseas. I checked out John Nada's site at http://www.goingghost.com (he now has a mirror site at http://www.fugitiveslave.com). Nada's story is that he is an American who expatriated to Barranquilla, Colombia several years ago following a divorce, and now he wants to help men escape the "woman's plantation" that is the United States and find, as he did, their own "never-never lands".

He offers an online course, the "Fiercely Independent Expat" or FIE course, that he claims will help men smoothly expatriate to the country of their choice. At the time I contemplated paying for the course, he was offering it for $397, but warned that it would soon jump in price, with the new cost tied to the price of one troy ounce of gold. As one ounce of gold currently fluctuates in price between $1050 and $1200, my hesitation could have cost me several hundred extra dollars.

Of course, the fact that he was willing to play the "fear card" on men who, due to various financial and romantic concerns, were both seriously contemplating expatriation and who were, in turn, likely willing to take desperate measures to assure themselves of better lives, should have been a clear warning to me to steer clear. In the midst of depression and anxiety regarding the future, however, I proved susceptible to his sales pitch, and paid for the course before it jumped in price.

As a parenthetical comment, I accessed his FIE offer web page within the past week, and found that he is now offering the course for $501, payable in three installments of $167. I gather that his attempt to sell the course for over $1000 wasn't successful - but imagine if someone paid that much for the course, only to find that he was marketing it less than four months later for less than half the amount for which the poor fellow purchased the course back in January. Talk about a dissatisfied customer!

Anyway, back to my story. In taking his four-part course, I noticed the following:

(1) A lot of what he says falls under the banner of common sense. For instance, he devoted one of his four 'webinars' to the need for doing research on the cultural, political, and other climates of the country to which one planned to expat. Well, sure - I already knew that.

(2) The money you pay for the expat course is intended to be just the beginning - he has a lot of other items he wishes to sell to you, at highly inflated prices. Here are two examples.

(a) He devoted another webinar to implementing what he refers to as the "Geoarbitrage Formula", which amounts to building your own online business, operating as an information marketer. Clearly, this can whet one's appetite - what all is involved? How do I end up becoming an online business titan? Well, if you want to know, all you have to do is pay for Nada's online business course - at a cost of $1588. In the course, he explicitly pushes the idea of marketing to buyers who are in 'dire straits', taking advantage of their emotional pain in order to make big bucks off them.

(b) Lonely? Think that expatriating to a Latin American country will solve those problems? Then head to latinabrideguide.com, where Nada will send you his "Global Dating Manifesto" report, which he values at $97, for free - but there's a catch. (By the way, Nada likes to price things with an amount that ends in 97 - it's his version of "Look at all you can get, for only $19.95!" Whatever. The amount is $20, or $100, or $400, all right? Only when selling to Americans, I suppose.) To get this report, you have to input your name and email address. You'll get the report, then have the pleasure of Nada pestering you, trying to instill fear in you, and if all else fails, insulting you by telling you in so many words that you're an idiot if you don't take what he offers - and what he offers is a chance to become a member of his LatinaBrideGuide inner circle for *only* $497 (last time I checked - as I've noted above, Nada will change the price of something in a heartbeat if he thinks his current approach isn't working).

At one time, Nada also offered a TESOL mentoring course, but the corresponding link appears to be inactive. It's my understanding that he was charging an arm and a leg for this course as well.

(c) Throughout the course, Nada emphasizes the need to stay "under the radar", even to the point of trying to keep family and friends in the dark as to your expat plans. This is a classic technique of con artists and cult leaders, to foster the "You and me against the world" mentality in their followers.

So, in summary, Nada's expat course:

(1) Tells you things that you could have figured out on your own, or could learn from a site such as happierabroad.com, for free, or at most a mere fraction of the cost.

(2) Teases you with the prospect of assuring yourself of financial wealth and romantic fulfillment abroad, but only if you take his courses, which will set you back thousands of dollars.

(3) Touts the wisdom of separating yourself from family and friends during the expatriation process, a quest that involves you, Nada, and your wallet.

In addition to the FIE course, Nada also permitted me access to his 'Mastermind' discussion group, which meets each Tuesday evening for two or more hours on Skype. Several men from various parts of the US, men who have given Nada a chunk of their hard-earned funds, connect with Nada for a conference call. As a new participant, I kept quiet for the most part, being content to listen and to observe, in the hopes of gaining useful information from Nada and others. Most of the time, however, the calls were simply 'rah-rah' sessions with Nada either speaking tritely or posting links that either called for those who accessed the web sites to pony up yet MORE money to 'achieve their dreams', or that stoked the fears of those who read the articles with prophecies of impending doom. (Personally, I think the US is on untenable ground financially, and cannot continue on its current course without dire consequences resulting, but it's one thing to think that, and another thing altogether to let such thoughts dominate your thinking, which was clearly Nada's hope.) In short, it was obvious that Nada didn't come into the conferencing calls with a plan, at least not one that would have truly benefited the men who spent two hours each week on Skype instead of relaxing, pursuing hobbies, and so forth.

Push came to shove last Monday. I awoke, and opened my email to find that Nada had sent an email that included a link to a video - a link that has since been disabled, interestingly. I watched the six-plus minute video, and in it, Nada says that he's disappointed with the Mastermind discussion group. After a token nod towards his own accountability in the matter, instead of telling his audience that as the leader, the burden rests upon him and he will resolve to do better, he castigates the members of the Mastermind group for gossiping, indecision, and lack of results, and says that to resolve the problem, he will now charge $197 per month for access to the Mastermind discussions, an amount that would jump to $397 per month if one didn't sign up by the end of the next day.

On top of this, he sent another email the same day in which he offers two tips at a time, twice a month, for $97 a pop. In the email, he tells you that after watching the video, if you make excuses and don't sign up, then "you hate success". So, in short, his solution to the problem is to blame others, and charge each person an additional $400 to $600 per month.

Well, that was enough for me. I severed contact with Nada, and took my name off his mailing list. The money he got from me was not nearly the amount he received from others, but it's all the money he'll get from me.

At first, I was hesitant to post a report, due to my embarrassment at having been conned. But then, I realized that by not posting, I was letting Nada win. By posting this, I not only regain power and dignity, but also help make certain no one else gets taken in by him.

[WontGetFooledAgain]

Nada has replied to my post on Ripoff Report (click the link in my original post). It would appear I've touched a raw nerve, as he accuses me of quite nearly being libelous. My response is that I stand by my original post. It is true that I was emotionally vested at the outset, as Nada notes, but each of us retains the right to change his mind in the presence of new information. It is also true that I seemed indecisive regarding destination country, but that was a matter of me 'thinking out loud'. He also states that, due to my post, he is now charging triple for the expat course, and will let the market decide whether his decision to raise the price was proper.

According to him, in car terms, his course is an Aston-Martin, compared to what you'll find on this board and others, which he compares to a Hyundai. That, he says, is why he charges so much for his course. Well, curiously enough, I drive a Hyundai, and it's a safe and reliable vehicle, one that I purchased for a reasonable price. Read into that what you will.

An analogy can be made to wine purchases. If you have two bottles of wine in front of you, one going for $20 and the other for $400, is the second bottle of wine really twenty times better? Or is it simply a matter of someone brazenly asserting that it's worth that much more, when the truth is that the more expensive wine is not much better, if indeed any better, than the $20 wine? There's an interesting take on this at the New York Times:

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... justified/

My assertion is that I paid $400 for a $20 bottle of wine, and Nada vehemently disagrees.

[Winston]

Nada has replied to my post on Ripoff Report (click the link in my original post). It would appear I've touched a raw nerve, as he accuses me of quite nearly being libelous. My response is that I stand by my original post. It is true that I was emotionally vested at the outset, as Nada notes, but each of us retains the right to change his mind in the presence of new information. It is also true that I seemed indecisive regarding destination country, but that was a matter of me 'thinking out loud'. He also states that, due to my post, he is now charging triple for the expat course, and will let the market decide whether his decision to raise the price was proper.

According to him, in car terms, his course is an Aston-Martin, compared to what you'll find on this board and others, which he compares to a Hyundai. That, he says, is why he charges so much for his course. Well, curiously enough, I drive a Hyundai, and it's a safe and reliable vehicle, one that I purchased for a reasonable price. Read into that what you will.

An analogy can be made to wine purchases. If you have two bottles of wine in front of you, one going for $20 and the other for $400, is the second bottle of wine really twenty times better? Or is it simply a matter of someone brazenly asserting that it's worth that much more, when the truth is that the more expensive wine is not much better, if indeed any better, than the $20 wine? There's an interesting take on this at the New York Times:

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... justified/

My assertion is that I paid $400 for a $20 bottle of wine, and Nada vehemently disagrees.

He is crazy then and just a desperate used car salesman.

It is not libel unless you wrote things that are factually false. For example, if he did not charge what you said he did. But you have all his emails and newsletters to prove that he charged those prices right? If so, you can prove that everything you've said is true. And you have your right to express your opinion of it.

How did you pay him? By credit card or paypal? Can you file a dispute with those companies?

[globetrotter]

Value-added is what a salesman does. That is how revenues are generated and sales are made.

If Nada convinced a handful of guys to buy his products and most seem satisfied, then one unhappy customer is business as usual. I dealt with unhappy customers all the time in Construction. About 2% to 3%.

[Winston]

Value-added is what a salesman does. That is how revenues are generated and sales are made.

If Nada convinced a handful of guys to buy his products and most seem satisfied, then one unhappy customer is business as usual. I dealt with unhappy customers all the time in Construction. About 2% to 3%.

Yeah but pricing a $20 bottle of win at $400 is a scam.

I do not see any evidence that people who pay John Nada $3000 or $400 are happy with it. From what we've heard about his claims and excuses from the account above, it has all the makings of a scam artist.

Btw, I remember going to art museums and seeing a painting with one or two lines in it, yet it was priced at thousands of dollars! How can only line or square in a painting be worth thousands? I can do that in a few seconds. Totally ridiculous. Any explanation?

[globetrotter]

Value-added is what a salesman does. That is how revenues are generated and sales are made.

If Nada convinced a handful of guys to buy his products and most seem satisfied, then one unhappy customer is business as usual. I dealt with unhappy customers all the time in Construction. About 2% to 3%.

Yeah but pricing a $20 bottle of win at $400 is a scam.

I do not see any evidence that people who pay John Nada $3000 or $400 are happy with it. From what we've heard about his claims and excuses from the account above, it has all the makings of a scam artist.

Btw, I remember going to art museums and seeing a painting with one or two lines in it, yet it was priced at thousands of dollars! How can only line or square in a painting be worth thousands? I can do that in a few seconds. Totally ridiculous. Any explanation?

If you could do it, you would do it. Anyone can say 'I can do that'. Only a few people actually DO IT.
Same criticism of Punk Rock and bands like The Ramones. 3 chords, lead singer with a limited range at best. Sure you could do that, any musician could have done that in 1974.

The point is that NO ONE ELSE DID IT BUT THEM in 1974.

I see no evidence that this was a case of pricing a $20 bottle of wine at $400. In China brands that you consider mundane are highly valued and get top dollar. You should see the prices of some of the Australian Wines in grocery stores here, the prices of high end dresses in the high end mall are a YEARS WAGES to many.

Marketing to The Rich usually consists of small increases in the appearance of quality and a HUGE increase in the price.

If you take a product and sell it for $400, do you know what it is worth?
It is worth $400. That's how markets set value and prices. Pricing a $20 bottle of wine at $400 is a NOT a scam. To The Rich that price adds value. Improve the packaging and marketing and you have added the requisite value to justify that price.

The notion that anything is 'supposed to worth' a price because you think that the price 'should be' at a given level, simply is not true.

I deal in Reality, not 'Should'.