Should one feel ashamed about using P4P

[Traveler]

I think a lot depends on the attitude of the prostitute and what kind of service she provides. In some places, prostitutes can be very cold and business like and may provide a very rushed, wham bam thank you ma'am type of service. In a place like Thailand you can have enjoy a few drinks and spend some time getting to know the girl before enjoying any horizontal pleasures. You can get much more of a girlfriend type experience. I've known men who absolutely loved Thailand because of the nightlife there, but who say they would never pay for it in a western country. In a lot of societies the two main forms of sexual outlet have traditionally been marriage and P4P. Feeling ashamed about using P4P is a modern day anomaly.

[Ghost]

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[Jeremy]

For me it was a never a choice between p4p and "gaming," because girls never allowed me to "game" them in the first place. Any compunction I might have felt about paying for it in the beginning (due to the society I grew up in) was soon overridden by my male sex drive.

After being a regular hobbyist for 6 years, I make no distinction between paid and free sex. I boffed a near-perfect 19 year old just yesterday. Smacked her little clitty. Pried her cheeks apart. Made her face flush. If anyone wants to tell me that experience wasn't real, I'll laugh in their face.

The only thing that sucks about relying on hookers is the short duration / low frequency of sex. If I were Dan Balzerian rich, I wouldn't give a literal f**k about being a civilian incel. Just enjoy a 24/7 orgy with jailbait whores.

[tom]

All women are P4P, its only payment schedules that are in question.

[MrMan]

Yes, you should feel ashamed for using pay4 pay. It's a sin, fornication, whoring around.

[fschmidt]

I recently tried to find in the Quran where prostitution is banned, and in fact it isn't there. So the only place in all of Western scripture where prostitution is banned is by Paul (not Jesus) in the New Testament.

[jamesbond]

Using hookers is morally superior to seduction in every way and is recommended in the Bible (Proverbs 6:26). The reason that modern men oppose prostitution is because they are evil and seducing women is effectively a means of training yourself to be evil because sluts are attracted to evil men and by seducing sluts, you will gradually learn to be evil to attract them. Reject modern culture, follow the Bible, and use hookers.

I agree completely, trying to become a PUA (meaning act like a douchebag in order to get women) is not the right way to go. Using hookers is more effective and you get what you pay for, literally!

The United States is one of the few countries that has not legalized p4p. That really shows you how screwed up the morality is in this country. The PUA community started in the US because of horny men who could not get laid. It's more moral to use hookers than go to PUA seminars and learn how to "seduce" and basically lie to women.

Like Winston has said, the USA is morally bankrupt and only panders to women and gays. In the US, straight men are considered the enemy (so say the feminists).

[womenarealie]

For me it was a never a choice between p4p and "gaming," because girls never allowed me to "game" them in the first place. Any compunction I might have felt about paying for it in the beginning (due to the society I grew up in) was soon overridden by my male sex drive.

After being a regular hobbyist for 6 years, I make no distinction between paid and free sex. I boffed a near-perfect 19 year old just yesterday. Smacked her little clitty. Pried her cheeks apart. Made her face flush. If anyone wants to tell me that experience wasn't real, I'll laugh in their face.

The only thing that sucks about relying on hookers is the short duration / low frequency of sex. If I were Dan Balzerian rich, I wouldn't give a literal f**k about being a civilian incel. Just enjoy a 24/7 orgy with jailbait whores.

Excellent .

[MrMan]

I recently tried to find in the Quran where prostitution is banned, and in fact it isn't there. So the only place in all of Western scripture where prostitution is banned is by Paul (not Jesus) in the New Testament.

The Old Testament prescribes a death penalty for the woman married off as a virgin who had 'played the harlet' in her father's house. She'd whored around. Jesus listed 'fornications' ("whoring around") in a list of sins that proceed out of the heart in Matthew 15.

It's my understanding that Judaism sees prostitution as immoral. But the Torah didn't have a death penalty or specific punishment for it, except in the case of the supposed virgin married off. A prostitute's earnings couldn't go in the temple treasury. Her offspring might not be allowed in the tabernacle or temple. But the penalty for adultery is death.

The New Testament has plenty of negative things to say about fornication and shows that sleeping with a prostitute is certainly included in that term. God avenges those who defraud their brother through fornication.

[MrMan]

I recently tried to find in the Quran where prostitution is banned, and in fact it isn't there. So the only place in all of Western scripture where prostitution is banned is by Paul (not Jesus) in the New Testament.

The Old Testament prescribes a death penalty for the woman married off as a virgin who had 'played the harlet' in her father's house. She'd whored around. Jesus listed 'fornications' ("whoring around") in a list of sins that proceed out of the heart in Matthew 15.

It's my understanding that Judaism sees prostitution as immoral. But the Torah didn't have a death penalty or specific punishment for it, except in the case of the supposed virgin married off. A prostitute's earnings couldn't go in the temple treasury. Her offspring might not be allowed in the tabernacle or temple. But the penalty for adultery is death.

The New Testament has plenty of negative things to say about fornication and shows that sleeping with a prostitute is certainly included in that term. God avenges those who defraud their brother through fornication.

On a practical, health level, why would a man want to have intercourse or oral interactions with a woman who has allowed herself to be used as a dumping ground for another man's biological material. There are lots of STDs besides the main ones that everyone knows about. Some of them are spread by skin contact in areas that aren't covered by a condom, too.

[fschmidt]

The Old Testament prescribes a death penalty for the woman married off as a virgin who had 'played the harlet' in her father's house. She'd whored around.

Yes because she misrepresented herself.

Jesus listed 'fornications' ("whoring around") in a list of sins that proceed out of the heart in Matthew 15.

Do you mean Matthew 15:19? My translation (HCSB) says "sexual immoralities" without specifying what this means.

It's my understanding that Judaism sees prostitution as immoral.

I assume you mean Talmudic Judaism. My general rule is that all interpretations of the Bible found in the Talmud are wrong, so I consider Talmudic opposition to prostitution to be a sign in its favor.

On a practical, health level, why would a man want to have intercourse or oral interactions with a woman who has allowed herself to be used as a dumping ground for another man's biological material. There are lots of STDs besides the main ones that everyone knows about. Some of them are spread by skin contact in areas that aren't covered by a condom, too.

For health, the options from safest to least safe are: celibacy, monogamy, prostitutes, sluts. Since the original poster in this thread is comparing prostitutes to sluts, the preferred option health-wise is prostitutes.

[tamdrin12]

Fschmidt.. How do you conclude that prostitutes are somehow safer or cleaner than "sluts"... ?

[fschmidt]

Fschmidt.. How do you conclude that prostitutes are somehow safer or cleaner than "sluts"... ?

I am guessing. They are "professionals" so presumably they will be more rational about health concerns. But more importantly, the man is in control here and doesn't have to focus on appeasing the woman, so he is less likely to screw up and engage in risky behavior.

[Cornfed]

I recently tried to find in the Quran where prostitution is banned, and in fact it isn't there. So the only place in all of Western scripture where prostitution is banned is by Paul (not Jesus) in the New Testament.

Doesn't it say that a man should only have sex with his wives and bondmaids? Of course that is all well and good if you are preaching to an audience of desert patriarchs with four wives and ten bondmaids, but for normal societies, prostitution makes a bit more sense.

[fschmidt]

Doesn't it [the Quran] say that a man should only have sex with his wives and bondmaids?

That's what I thought until I tried to look it up. I can't find anything like this in the Quran, no limit at all except adultery (sex with another man's wife).

I am seeing a general pattern here. Religions start off well and are successful and then along come the idiots who screw it all up, starting with the rabbis in the Talmud, the Muslims with their Hadiths, and recent Evangelical Protestants.