Winston in China! Updates and Photos

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ethan_sg
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by ethan_sg »

Well China's divorce rates are still easily lower than that of 90% of countries around the world. Why not focus on their issues first?

I'm not sure which girls you're meeting but I'm post 80's myself and I've gone out with both post 80's and 90's girls over here and I would say the vast majority of them can cook. The exception would probably be native Shanghainese girls but that's no surprise.

Also I see many Chinese girls here who typically just buy local brand clothing or even clothing without brands, often even at stores you can bargain prices at. Only a minority go exclusively for international brands and even then it's the lower end mass market types like Zara, Uniqlo or H&M. Compare that with their counterparts in developed Asian countries for instance where many women are obsessed with luxury brands like Prada, Gucci, Hermes, Louis Vutton etc. and would never be seen outdoors wearing clothes that are not at least of an international brand. In Singapore for instance, the minimum quality of handbag that every girl expects to be seen out with is a Louis Vutton bag which typically costs at least 1500 USD or so - just for a handbag. In China, most girls don't give a dam. Try living in Singapore for a while and you will understand how bad Asian materialism can really get. Chinese levels are benign.

I'm guessing you've spent lots of time at Chinese cybercafes (网吧) where there are lots of game addicts who practically live there, but then again these guys are a sub-segment of society. If young mainland Chinese guys on the whole were as lazy as you claim, I doubt the Chinese economy would have grown as quickly as it has over the last 5 years. While it may no longer be achieving 10% annual growth rates, that's only natural because it's starting from a much higher base, but in absolute terms it is still growing as much as before.

Mind you us happierabroaders might not want it to grow that quickly as we all know what tends to happen to first world countries. :D

Come on married life is tough and it's difficult (some may even say unnatural) for you to spend the rest of your life seeing the same person everyday. When married men and women get a chance to get together with their friends for drinks it's common to have a good whine together about married life and focus on the negatives over drinks. The positives are often not talked about, because the positives are often taken for granted and don't make good conversational topics.


The_Adventurer wrote:
ethan_sg wrote:the divorce rate in America is 53% while in quite a few Western European countries, it is over 60%. It is only about 20% in China. There is no comparison.
What was it 5 years ago? And 5 years before that? You can't tell me the post 90's kids aren't f***ed. Girls can't cook worth a damn, don't know what a broom is, expect a man to do everything for them. They are spoiled and materialistic to a T. I think the comparison with American women was quite fair.

The guys are spoiled and lazy and have no work ethic. If you're not constantly standing over their shoulder, they'll be playing video games.

Post 80's are almost as bad.

EVERYTHING that I left American to get away from is easily found or fastly creeping in here. The one difference is the girls are more femenine, but there are cultural differences that bring about other evils to compensate for that.

Winston talked about insults. I see this everywhere. They all do that because their mothers did it to them. Their teachers do that. It is some kindnof weird, reverse psychology thing that is supposed to instill in the recipient a, "Oh yeah?! I'll show you!" attitude and make them work harder to give the other person what they want. If not that, it's the comparison. "Why can't you be like so and so...?" "He got his wife an iPhone" "He got straight A's" Yes. They do it to their kids too. I see this everyday. Everywhere.

I sit around at the bar with my married colleagues. It doesn't matter where they are from, Shanghai, Beijing, Henan, Guizhou... The stories about wives are all the same. The "appearance" of sweetness ENDS when they got you!

The guy in here with the Indonesian wife said they describe Chinese women as "cerewet". i see it everywhere. This is a CULTURAL thing. It is not a good or bad thing. Most Chinese guys are used to it and pay it no mind. I'm pretty adaptable as a foreigner and, though it can be grating, I can deal. I can assure you, Winston, that you are not ready. Falcon and your dad know you better than I, but I have read most of your work. I believe you should listen to them.
Last edited by ethan_sg on August 31st, 2015, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Yohan
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Yohan »

MarcosZeitola wrote:
Winston wrote: -- Chinese women have higher standards than Filipina women do. They are more complicated too.
Is being complicated and having higher (material) standards a sign of superiority? You must consider White American women superior too, by that logic. :lol:
Seriously dude, what have YOU been smoking?

The assertion that Filipino's are inferior for taking low-paying jobs abroad is downright nasty...
To be fair it should be noticed that Chinese from mainland China from rural areas are also taking low-paying jobs abroad.

Check out HongKong and see yourself how these Chinese workers are living there. Horrible conditions.

Chinese workers from the poor inner parts of China are not only in HongKong, but also in Russia and even in Latin America and are often facing bad labor conditions, similar to the Filipinos. Even the Chinese media do not deny it.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013 ... 869613.htm
Chinese workers overseas need protection
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013 ... 558268.htm
Others are working for Chinese construction companies overseas
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2013- ... 530924.htm

Many Chinese workers are jobless and try to work as illegals outside of China, for example in Russia, and of course they also try to enter Japan... As a fact, by far not all Chinese are rich, the difference between poor and rich is huge.
Working in Chinese factories, or in mines, or with the military etc. within China is not known to be fun - working conditions are poor, payment is low, workers cannot expect much protection by Chinese laws.
Last edited by Yohan on August 31st, 2015, 10:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
ethan_sg
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by ethan_sg »

I'm not saying to believe the Chinese media either. What I'm saying is most people outside of China including overseas Chinese around the world, perhaps even Winston's Dad who hasn't been to China, have their impressions of China shaped by the Western media and the non-representative samples they meet in their own countries.

I never said to trust the Chinese media either. We should not go by what the media tells us. We should come here to live and experience it for ourselves. So far China has proven to be a good fit for people like Zboy and I, and increasingly Winston as well.

Those divorce rates you cite in major Chinese cities may pertain only to native shanghainese, Beijingers and Shenzhenese. As you probably know, most people who live and work in these cities are not originally from these cities, and may not have Shanghai, Beijing or Shenzhen 'Hukou’, and their marriages may therefore be registered in their home cities. Therefore these divorce stats may not be representative of these cities themselves but only the minority of natives within the cities. Of course at the same time you would assume they would have a higher overall divorce rate than smaller cities, since the stats show that development and westernization are highly correlated with divorce rates, but this disparity could be exaggerated due to the explanation given above.

Funny that unlike with China, for Japan you don't cite the divorce rate for Tokyo per se. Lol. Wikipedia cites the overall divorce rate in Japan as being 36%(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography) and this doesn't take into consideration the already extremely low marriage and birth rates in Japan.

Simply because divorce is illegal in Philippines doesn't mean infidelity and marriage problems don't exist. I've also read about increasing marriage annulments in the Philippines which is basically a backdoor way of getting a divorce. Plus Philippines is probably the most westernized country in South East Asia after Singapore because of its history with Spanish colonization and American influence. Westernization tends to be correlated with more sexually liberal attitudes which may have a negative effect on marriage quality and sustainability in the long run too. There are Happier Abroaders out there who believe that any girl who can speak a decent level of English is likely to be more corrupted by Westernization and hence they prefer to avoid those types. Well in the Philippines the English standards are very high compared to the rest of Asia. Not saying I hold this view but I'm just sharing a school of thought. Personally while I can speak Mandarin I like it when the girls I date in China can speak a little English too.





Yohan wrote:
ethan_sg wrote:A lot of people who judge China from the outside or after only spending a few days in China make the mistake of:

1. Believing everything the Western Media paints about China. The western media is biased against China, and likes to play up the negative points but overlook the good ones. Part of the reason is that bad news sells, good news is generally not newsworthy.
-----
If China is as broken or dysfunctional a society as some of you make it out to be, then why are birth rates in China significantly higher, and divorce rates significantly lower than countries within or inflicted by the anglosphere? For instance, the divorce rate in America is 53% while in quite a few Western European countries, it is over 60%. It is only about 20% in China. There is no comparison.
Unfortunately there is often no other way but to believe the Western media, as all Chinese media are heavily censored, including the internet, statistics are often manipulated, just as it fits the Chinese Communist Party.

If you think you cannot trust Western media, I will tell you you cannot trust Chinese media either.
I see no reason why severely censored Chinese media are more trustworthy than Western media.

About divorce rates in China, I don't know anything about data in rural areas, but in Beijing the divorce rate is 39 percent, in Shanghai 38 percent and in Shenzhen 36 percent.

Divorce rate in China is nowadays quite similar to Japan and South Korea - to compare China with USA is rather misleading, better look up data in Asian countries.

You might compare the divorce rates in China with those of 35 percent in Taiwan and HongKong, I see no much difference to mainland China within the large cities. In Japan divorce rate is about 27 percent.

Using your argument about Chinese data, I might point out that the divorce rate in Philippines is ZERO, the lowest in this world.
Divorce does not exist in Philippine law.
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Falcon
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Falcon »

Winston wrote:From my dad:

"I read your forum member Falcon's post that suggests you to go back to Dianne and Angelo. When he was in our home, I was amazed that his views about life are very mature although he is so young. After I read his post, I found he knows Chinese very well both political and social behaviors of Chinese women. He is very wise about how to live a happy and meaningful life. Please hear what he tried to suggest you seriously. Love dad"
Please pass on my thanks and regards to Mr. Wu. During my visit to Taiwan, I was also quite impressed by your dad's calm, practical approach to life, and would like to thank them again for all the tasty vegetarian meals they had invited me to. You really do have cool parents.

I don't claim to be wise or mature, but I just try to keep an open mind and learn as much things as I can from life. There are still so many more things I have to learn, and Rock can definitely testify to this.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Yohan »

ethan_sg wrote: Those divorce rates you cite in major Chinese cities may pertain only to native shanghainese, Beijingers and Shenzhenese. As you probably know, most people who live and work in these cities are not originally from these cities...
---
Funny that unlike with China, for Japan you don't cite the divorce rate for Tokyo per se. Lol. Wikipedia cites the overall divorce rate in Japan as being 36%(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography) and this doesn't take into consideration the already extremely low marriage and birth rates in Japan.
Divorce rates in China are difficult to measure, simply said because of gender imbalance in rural areas, there are more men than women, if they cannot marry, because there are no women, they also cannot divorce - we do not have any gender imbalance in Japan.

The divorce rate is now estimated to be in Japan around 27 percent and still declining, while the Chinese divorce rate is going up.
https://meigakucontrastingcultures.file ... -japan.pdf

Wikipedia is using old data from 2010, not from 2012, no estimate given for 2015. About cities, I have never seen a breakup in cities in Japan, and divorce is usually out of court, just fill up an internet form and next day sign it in the ward office - finished. There is no waiting time for a divorce of many months like in China.

It is also difficult to find data from China about all China and while Japan has only 127 million people, China has over 1350 million people.
In some years divorce rates will be about the same in China, Japan, South Korea, HongKong, Taiwan I guess. Somewhat in the 30 percent level I guess.

About low birthrates, simply said we are too many on these few islands, population reduction in Japan is not bad, same is true with China and many other Asian nations.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Falcon »

I am extremely busy working on projects and studying in Thailand at the moment, so apologies for the delays.

Before I had tried to install WeChat but had been having connectivity issues, phone / computer freeze-ups, etc. Now I have it up and running, so you can add me.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by ethan_sg »

Yohan the link that you gave doesn't seem to site any credible sources and is from a relatively obscure organization. Wikipedia's source is the United Nations Statistical Division (UNSTAT) which sounds like a much more reliable source.

Furthermore the report you gave was written in 2012 which means the stats could not have been been for 2012. As it does not state the source of its divorce data, it is unclear if it even is 2011, 2010 or even earlier. In any case there 2 problems with the report 1. No credible source. 2. Unknown year of measurement

On top of that, all the data cited in the report points to how Japan's divorce rate has increased significantly over the last few decades.

For you to use this data as supposed evidence that Japan's divorce rate is decreasing is frankly illogical and academically mischievous to me. The data, if even reliable, could also be referring to the year 2010 for all we know, in which case it would be in conflict with Wikipedia's UNSTAT source. This would mean that the difference could be due to a difference in measurement methods.

Since it was released in 2012, the latest year the report could be citing data for would be 2011. It seems extremely unlike that a country's divorce rate could drop so dramatically from 36% in 2010 to 27% in 2011. If the data is for 2011, the most likely explanation would still be a difference in measurement methods.

The best and most reliable way for us to measure changes in divorce rates over time is to use reports that compare data from different years using the same methodologies. Correct me if i'm wrong, but frankly it is laughable to me that you could site this source as evidence that Japan's divorce rate is therefore on the decline.

Further to that, even if your was conclusion was credible which it is not, it tells us nothing about what happened between 2013 and 2015. Therefore your conclusion that Japan's divorce rate is on the decline seems unfounded on so many levels, and frankly, academically mischievous.

Low birth rates may be good for population control but what about all the Single Japanese destined to grow old and die alone? All the social and psychological problems that Japanese society is facing has been well documented on other threads - things like Hikkimori culture, highest suicide rate in the world, one-third of men never having had sex in their lives, bringing 'pillow girlfriends' on holidays, marrying blown up dolls, the list goes on and on and has been well documented in other threads.
Yohan wrote:
ethan_sg wrote: Those divorce rates you cite in major Chinese cities may pertain only to native shanghainese, Beijingers and Shenzhenese. As you probably know, most people who live and work in these cities are not originally from these cities...
---
Funny that unlike with China, for Japan you don't cite the divorce rate for Tokyo per se. Lol. Wikipedia cites the overall divorce rate in Japan as being 36%(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography) and this doesn't take into consideration the already extremely low marriage and birth rates in Japan.
Divorce rates in China are difficult to measure, simply said because of gender imbalance in rural areas, there are more men than women, if they cannot marry, because there are no women, they also cannot divorce - we do not have any gender imbalance in Japan.

The divorce rate is now estimated to be in Japan around 27 percent and still declining, while the Chinese divorce rate is going up.
https://meigakucontrastingcultures.file ... -japan.pdf

Wikipedia is using old data from 2010, not from 2012, no estimate given for 2015. About cities, I have never seen a breakup in cities in Japan, and divorce is usually out of court, just fill up an internet form and next day sign it in the ward office - finished. There is no waiting time for a divorce of many months like in China.

It is also difficult to find data from China about all China and while Japan has only 127 million people, China has over 1350 million people.
In some years divorce rates will be about the same in China, Japan, South Korea, HongKong, Taiwan I guess. Somewhat in the 30 percent level I guess.

About low birthrates, simply said we are too many on these few islands, population reduction in Japan is not bad, same is true with China and many other Asian nations.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by chanta76 »

It seems to me the guys in china who also have chinese back ground is sprouting chinese nationalism.

Give china a few more years and its going to be as bad as the rest of the world.


I think people got upset with winston stating that the philippines are inferior. If that is the case you might as well throw in all of africa ..other south east asian countries and maybe even parts latin america.

If you speak about being superior how about this one.

White western men are superior over any chinese men.
1. White guys are supposedly bigger everywhere.
2.white guys are less sexist and are more romantic.
3.on the average white guys make more money than a chinese guy.
4.western countries are better develop.

So..it should make sense that chinese women should only be with white guys only.

Not only does this sound racist but also stupid.

Winston as an asian american who probably experience racism growing up. You should be more compassionate regarding racial matters and unless you believe white people are better than asian people. Cause that is the belief in the west.
Last edited by chanta76 on August 31st, 2015, 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by ethan_sg »

In addition to my previous points, I think it is also important for us to consider how divorce rates are measured. Presumably they would use data including married couples of all ages in any given country.

We know for a fact that Japan's marriage rate and numbers have plummeted over the years and is now significantly lower than it was a few decades ago. Unlike in some other developed countries, this decrease is not mitigated by immigration and marriage among immigrants because of Japan's extremely low immigration rate.

When measuring the effects of modern society on humans and their quality of lives, it would be more relevant to measure data that focuses on the younger singles and married people. Older Japanese grew up in very different times and had very different, presumably more traditional values.

However, the fact that Japan's marriage rate is now much lower than a few decades ago means that the overall marriage stats which divorce numbers are measured against, are significantly skewed towards older married couples. This would likely significantly understate the true divorce rate in Japanese society among the younger population. If you leave out Japanese couples aged 45 and above, I wonder what the stats would be like.

Due to the demographics of Japan, the divorce stats in Japan therefore likely understate the divorce problem among younger married couples in Japan.

Furthermore, the report that you cited, if even reliable, does in fact point to this matter. It states that "The number of couples
getting married has reduced considerable, because of which the divorce rate has also dropped down." This implies that the slight drop in the rate was due to a decrease in married couples, hence while the rate of divorce among young couples in Japan may actually be growing, they are less in absolute numbers and are then diluted by the relative stability of the older generations which have higher marriage numbers and also used when measuring the overall divorce stats.

Here a couple more pieces of data from the same report which would give us a more accurate picture.

1. "According to the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry, the number of married couples was 708,000 in 2010 while the number of couples who divorced was 253,353."

2. "Nearly one in three marriages in Japan ends up in a divorce."

Of course here I'm just humoring you and using the data in the link you gave, despite the fact that it is unclear on the year of measurement and the source of its data. Ultimately, I would still refer to the Wikipedia UNSTAT source over this, not only because it is more reputable, but because we need to use multiple year data from the same source before we can come to conclusions on divorce trends, since measurement methodologies are complex and can vary from study to study, made even more complicated by Japan's aging demographic issue and plummeting marriage rates over the last few decades.




ethan_sg wrote:Yohan the link that you gave doesn't seem to site any credible sources and is from a relatively obscure organization. Wikipedia's source is the United Nations Statistical Division (UNSTAT) which sounds like a much more reliable source.

Furthermore the report you gave was written in 2012 which means the stats could not have been been for 2012. As it does not state the source of its divorce data, it is unclear if it even is 2011, 2010 or even earlier. In any case there 2 problems with the report 1. No credible source. 2. Unknown year of measurement

On top of that, all the data cited in the report points to how Japan's divorce rate has increased significantly over the last few decades.

For you to use this data as supposed evidence that Japan's divorce rate is decreasing is frankly illogical and academically mischievous to me. The data, if even reliable, could also be referring to the year 2010 for all we know, in which case it would be in conflict with Wikipedia's UNSTAT source. This would mean that the difference could be due to a difference in measurement methods.

Since it was released in 2012, the latest year the report could be citing data for would be 2011. It seems extremely unlike that a country's divorce rate could drop so dramatically from 36% in 2010 to 27% in 2011. If the data is for 2011, the most likely explanation would still be a difference in measurement methods.

The best and most reliable way for us to measure changes in divorce rates over time is to use reports that compare data from different years using the same methodologies. Correct me if i'm wrong, but frankly it is laughable to me that you could site this source as evidence that Japan's divorce rate is therefore on the decline.

Further to that, even if your was conclusion was credible which it is not, it tells us nothing about what happened between 2013 and 2015. Therefore your conclusion that Japan's divorce rate is on the decline seems unfounded on so many levels, and frankly, academically mischievous.

Low birth rates may be good for population control but what about all the Single Japanese destined to grow old and die alone? All the social and psychological problems that Japanese society is facing has been well documented on other threads - things like Hikkimori culture, highest suicide rate in the world, one-third of men never having had sex in their lives, bringing 'pillow girlfriends' on holidays, marrying blown up dolls, the list goes on and on and has been well documented in other threads.
Yohan wrote:
ethan_sg wrote: Those divorce rates you cite in major Chinese cities may pertain only to native shanghainese, Beijingers and Shenzhenese. As you probably know, most people who live and work in these cities are not originally from these cities...
---
Funny that unlike with China, for Japan you don't cite the divorce rate for Tokyo per se. Lol. Wikipedia cites the overall divorce rate in Japan as being 36%(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography) and this doesn't take into consideration the already extremely low marriage and birth rates in Japan.
Divorce rates in China are difficult to measure, simply said because of gender imbalance in rural areas, there are more men than women, if they cannot marry, because there are no women, they also cannot divorce - we do not have any gender imbalance in Japan.

The divorce rate is now estimated to be in Japan around 27 percent and still declining, while the Chinese divorce rate is going up.
https://meigakucontrastingcultures.file ... -japan.pdf

Wikipedia is using old data from 2010, not from 2012, no estimate given for 2015. About cities, I have never seen a breakup in cities in Japan, and divorce is usually out of court, just fill up an internet form and next day sign it in the ward office - finished. There is no waiting time for a divorce of many months like in China.

It is also difficult to find data from China about all China and while Japan has only 127 million people, China has over 1350 million people.
In some years divorce rates will be about the same in China, Japan, South Korea, HongKong, Taiwan I guess. Somewhat in the 30 percent level I guess.

About low birthrates, simply said we are too many on these few islands, population reduction in Japan is not bad, same is true with China and many other Asian nations.
Last edited by ethan_sg on August 31st, 2015, 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by chanta76 »

Marcus


I have to agree with you. As an asian man growing up in the usa i kept hearing bullshit stereotypes that asian man are less masculine. For me personal i knew it was not true but more due to racism .

Just surprise that winston would say this. I always figure he be sensitive torwards racial stereotypes.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

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ethan_sg wrote:In addition to my previous points, I think it is also important for us to consider how divorce rates are measured. Presumably they would use data including married couples of all ages in any given country.
.....
Yohan the link that you gave doesn't seem to site any credible sources and is from a relatively obscure organization. Wikipedia's source is the United Nations Statistical Division (UNSTAT) which sounds like a much more reliable source.
How are divorce rates measured in China? Please explain, out of which sources?

Data about Japan can be calculated using the official website:

http://www.stat.go.jp/english/index.htm

It would be nice if you could provide me a similar official link about China.

You did avoid to mention the gender imbalance in China, if there are only 100 women for 119 men (up to 130 in rural areas!), of course the divorce rate must be lower than in Japan, where a gender imbalance does not exist. No woman to marry existing means no divorce possible. Further, huge backlogs in China in divorce procedures over many months result in couples married longer than they want to be. This again is bringing down the divorce rate.

About immigration, which is very low in Japan, can you offer some Chinese sources about immigration into China?
How many people for example got Chinese citizenship and how many Chinese renounce it after leaving to other country?
Are they allowed to renounce Chinese citizenship? I think they are not. China remains highly restrictive against its own citizens in China, not even to talk about issues regarding HongKong, Taiwan, Tibet, Northwest part of China etc.

In general I fail to see what China is offering to foreigners (except tourism and business for large production companies), they can never own any property (all land belongs to China as a Communist principle), they can never claim the Chinese citizenship, even not permanent resident status, the justice system is very arbitrary... Chinese cities are crowded similar to Japan but very much polluted, communication is heavily restricted including internet censorship... What is so attractive with China?

About girls, there is a remarkably high gender imbalance,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8451289.stm
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 332304.ece

Again my question, what is so attractive with China?

I see plenty of Chinese lining up in front of consulates ready to leave anytime to USA, Europe, Australia, Japan etc. - basically accepting any country which is willing to take them but which country welcomes Chinese citizens for longstay, good question - on the other side I do not know anything about immigration into China except overseas Chinese.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Yohan »

MarcosZeitola wrote:
chanta76 wrote:I think people got upset with winston stating that the philippines are inferior. If that is the case you might as well throw in all of africa ..other south east asian countries and maybe even parts latin america.
He will probably claim those countries and the people\races that inhabit them are inferior too.
He's a Chinese guy, I can't blame him. If I was a Chinese guy I would probably feel the same way.
.....
The same can be said for Yohan, whose impression of Filipino people comes from his foster daughter and her family. His experience seems to be generally positive. Ask men such as OutWest, Davewe and the (sadly less active) Publicduende, and you will hear similar positive experiences.
To consider China as 'superior' to other nations? Is this a joke?
Out of what reason? Please explain...

The worldbank is listing China as Rank # 105 as income per capita/purchasing power out of 213 countries.
http://databank.worldbank.org/data/download/GNIPC.pdf

The corruption index is listing China as rank # 100 out of 174 countries.
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

Freedom of media-journalists is rank #175 out of 180 countries lower than Iran!
http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

I could continue this list, religious restrictions, travel restrictions even for own citizens and so on.

There is hardly a reason for an ordinary mainland Chinese worker to feel superior to other nations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/3 ... 58415.html
Working conditions in China

---

About Philippines, even with its chaotic government and its impoverished people living often in slum-area, I prefer it any time to China. Philippine government compared to China is not a control-freak, foreigners welcome to settle down legally anytime with easy to obtain resident status, Philippine people are willing to study and to do any work if they have the chance to do so. I was never disappointed there during my frequent visits to Cebu. About my Filipina fosterdaughter, still in university, she is always respectful, always obedient to me, I never had a problem with her or with anybody next to her.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Winston »

Terrence and yohan,
sorry but you two arent presenting any significant points that prove anything. Both of you sound too anti china and you guys seem to be devils advocates who are just arguing with everything for argument sake.

You guys are also morons to compare mainland chinese girls with american girls. That destroys your credibility right there. No f***ing way! Hell no! Are you frigging insane?! Chinese girls are wayyyyyyy wayyyyyyyy wayyyyyyyyy millions of times more down to earth and approachable and sweet than american girls. Light years of difference! I swear it!

You guys could not be more wrong. I swear. Come here to china and i will show you how authentic it is to talk to and connect with chinese girls. They dont act fake at all like american girls do.

Same with you Marcoszeitola.

Also if chinese and american girls are similar then how come they never hang out in the same clique? How come theres a barrier between them? How come theres no comfort level between them?

All those news articles dont mean shit. News is always negative. Who cares? The main point for us is that meeting and dating girls here is 1000 times better and more friendly and smooth and natural than in the west. I know this from first hand experience so it is a HARD FACT for me and Ethan_sg and zboy and others.

In other words, dating and social life are much better here. Thats the bottom line and significance here. Ethan_sg and zboy can confirm that too.

All those stupid news articles dont mean shit and dont change the bottom line that we experience first hand here.

Also china is healthier too. Zboy and i have lost a lot of weight here. I went from 82 kg to 76 kg. So yes there are health benefits too. Stop being so negative guys. Get your ass here instead and you will experience what i mean.
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by Winston »

Yohan,
Your stats are bullshit. They contradict my first hand experience and observation. Come here to china and you will see that there seems to be more women than men. I see hot women everywhere every second. Its surreal. Of course i pay attention more to women as well. But i do not see any surplus of men.

Also most of china ive seen is pretty modern and developed with all the conveniences you need. And this includes the cities in inner china as well. So it is no third world.

Also how come in Philippines you are always surrounded by people trying to scam you but i never seen anyone trying to scam me in China?

Finally if you guys dont think race matters, see David Dukes material on his website. He has a lot of arguments and evidence that race and genetics are very real and matter and are wonderful too.

http://www.davidduke.com
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Re: Winston is in China now! Updates and Reports

Post by ethan_sg »

Yohan the link you provided does not provide any details on how divorce rates are calculated.

On the contrary, the UN UNSTAT stats cited by Wikipedia do provide details if you bothered to visit the links and used a bit of basic inference (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/ ... able23.pdf) and (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/ ... able25.pdf)
The articles also provide all the original sources of data.

Your suggestions that China's gender imbalance results in a lower divorce rates only shows how little you understand the definition of 'rate'. A single person who doesn't get married cannot be divorced. Obviously divorce rates are measured against married couples. Therefore your suggestion that gender imbalance contributes to a lower divorce rate does not make any sense at all. Please think before you post.

I cited the low immigration rate as a point relevant to the aging demographics in Japan. Immigration rate is not relevant to whether a place is necessarily a suitable happier abroad destination. The USA has a very high immigration rate but does this mean it's an ideal happier abroad destination? Your usage of China's low immigration rate to attack it shows how little understanding you have over real Happier Abroad issues.

Hey the US has lots of political freedom and is fully democratic. Land in the US is also fully freehold - meaning once you buy it it's yours forever to keep till you sell it. If these types of freedom were what really mattered to us Happier Abroaders, this forum wouldn't even exist. Your harping on these issues shows how little understanding you have over real Happier Abroad issues and how incompatible you are with most on this forum. Perhaps you should be posting your views somewhere else like on an immigration forum or something.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much political freedom Japan has. The end result of its modernization, westernization and Asian brand of feminism has been the highest suicide rate in the world and a whole host of warped sociological and psychological ailments that it is struggling to deal with. Men there are among the loneliest and sexless in the world. Despite any gender imbalance that China may be suffering from due to its one-child policy, its marriage rate and birth rate is still much higher than it is in Japan. This shows that despite the gender imbalance, a higher proportion of people and still getting married and having kids. This is because on the whole, Chinese women still remain far less feminist, individualistic and are much more family-minded, down-to-earth and open to dating men than women in the Anglosphere or Asian countries afflicted by the anglosphere like Japan and Singapore.

Some quotes below on Japan's divorce rates and increasingly lopsided female power in gender relations and divorce cases below show how Japan is becoming more like the feminist West in terms of both gender relations and female power in divorce cases. If you don't appreciate one of the central prevailing themes on this forum which is the problems with feminism and how men are being increasingly screwed over socially and legally in the feminist anglosphere, then it would only further strengthen my belief that you belong on a Vanilla Immigration forum, not Happier Abroad. Quotes below are from the following source: (http://factsanddetails.com/japan/cat18/ ... #chapter-1)

Yoshiro Hatano, Ph.D. and Tsuguo Shimazaki wrote in the Encyclopedia of Sexuality: In 1946, divorce laws eliminated the old three-line letter whereby a man could dismiss his wife. Before World War II, Japan had one of the highest divorce rates in the world; that high rate is echoed in recent years, following after an all-time postwar low, with the difference that most divorces now are sought by women. Laws still leave alimony rather skimpy, but child-custody now favors the mother instead of the mandatory custody by the husband's family that prevailed before 1945. [Source: Yoshiro Hatano, Ph.D. and Tsuguo Shimazaki, Encyclopedia of Sexuality, 1997 hu-berlin.de/sexology ++]

The increased rate of divorce among the young people may come from their immaturity in the social perseverance quality, while the rate among middle-aged people may be the result of changes in the male/female social strength relations. For the latter, factors to be considered include a rebellion of the women against the men-centered social structure, expansion of the economic independence of the housewives, and more promotion of women's emancipation. This, in turn, provides the starting point for a discussion about the husband/wife roles in the family life in the modern and future Japanese society.

New divorce laws in 2007 give a divorced wife the right to 50 percent of husband's company pension. Many older and middle aged women who wanted divorces reportedly decided to stay in unhappy marriages and wait until the law went into effect before seeking a divorce.


Yohan wrote:
ethan_sg wrote:In addition to my previous points, I think it is also important for us to consider how divorce rates are measured. Presumably they would use data including married couples of all ages in any given country.
.....
Yohan the link that you gave doesn't seem to site any credible sources and is from a relatively obscure organization. Wikipedia's source is the United Nations Statistical Division (UNSTAT) which sounds like a much more reliable source.
How are divorce rates measured in China? Please explain, out of which sources?

Data about Japan can be calculated using the official website:

http://www.stat.go.jp/english/index.htm

It would be nice if you could provide me a similar official link about China.

You did avoid to mention the gender imbalance in China, if there are only 100 women for 119 men (up to 130 in rural areas!), of course the divorce rate must be lower than in Japan, where a gender imbalance does not exist. No woman to marry existing means no divorce possible. Further, huge backlogs in China in divorce procedures over many months result in couples married longer than they want to be. This again is bringing down the divorce rate.

About immigration, which is very low in Japan, can you offer some Chinese sources about immigration into China?
How many people for example got Chinese citizenship and how many Chinese renounce it after leaving to other country?
Are they allowed to renounce Chinese citizenship? I think they are not. China remains highly restrictive against its own citizens in China, not even to talk about issues regarding HongKong, Taiwan, Tibet, Northwest part of China etc.

In general I fail to see what China is offering to foreigners (except tourism and business for large production companies), they can never own any property (all land belongs to China as a Communist principle), they can never claim the Chinese citizenship, even not permanent resident status, the justice system is very arbitrary... Chinese cities are crowded similar to Japan but very much polluted, communication is heavily restricted including internet censorship... What is so attractive with China?

About girls, there is a remarkably high gender imbalance,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8451289.stm
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 332304.ece

Again my question, what is so attractive with China?

I see plenty of Chinese lining up in front of consulates ready to leave anytime to USA, Europe, Australia, Japan etc. - basically accepting any country which is willing to take them but which country welcomes Chinese citizens for longstay, good question - on the other side I do not know anything about immigration into China except overseas Chinese.
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