First move and selection

[mentor]

Some things seem not having a total clear answer. Maybe it’s what we call by telling ‘it depends’.
But, I want to discuss it with you.

I was always wondering what is better, as a man:
1) let myself be chosen by a girl, and if I like it and it is suitable for me, proceed with her
or
2) chase actively the girls I think they are the best choices for me?

I want the discussion to be specifically about the situation in these Asian countries, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
Because I think that what we know as men from our western world, it’s different from what’s happening in these countries.

Living in the western world, and I think this happens to most western countries, usually the man is the one who has to chase the girls. I think this is what happens in most situations.
Me too, I ‘ve done it before. But I always doubt if it is the best practice. I found myself in relationships, that someday the girl told me ‘I had many other proposals than yours, I could select anyone I wanted!’.
Even though this is usually true in western world, and although many girls maybe do not telling it to you, this is arrogant attitude from many girls, and it is not only annoying, sometimes lead these girls to even leave you alone, no matter if there are many faults in the relationship from their side!

Giving the fact that in these Asian countries, western men have very good possibilities for getting a real valuable girl, I wonder what is better to do:
appear yourself and wait for the right girl to attach to you, or chase the ones you want?

I mean, there is always a mind(and not only?) game related to the opposite sex, of who wants the other person more than the other person, and how this can affect the future of the relationship.
After dealing with some western girls with bad attitude in my life, at sometime I decided the next times to leave more space to the girls to be ‘chosen’ from them, and if I like them and I find their personality/presence appealing to me, proceed to a relationship. This is not absolute though. If I see that a girl is really extraordinary, I am sure I will put many efforts for getting close to her. But generally speaking, this is an exception for me, as I think it now. Maybe I reconsider though. I will see your opinions about this topic, with high interest.

As I read in many other topics, on one side many good girls in these countries are passive and very shy (so you should make the first move as a man),
on the other side, the lack of quality men there, make even the timid girls, to give you a sign that they are interested to you(for example, a message like ‘hi’). And in most of times (as I read), there are many women trying to attach to foreign men, so the numbers and the chances are ‘positive’ on mens favor.
So, the practice I think to follow from now on (online dating currently), maybe it is very viable and in the good way.

I wait for your opinions about this topic.

[mentor]

You have no ambition to go abroad, or even visit these girls in their own countries in the first place. Therefore, all you will do is continue to send messages. Whether you message her first or she messages you first, is irrelevant. What you plan on doing has absolutely nothing to do with being Happier Abroad, you wish to be happier at home and select a girl from a catalogue, then pay for her ticket and make her fly to you. This strategy is not going to work.

Just saying "hi" on a dating site does not constitute a "first move". Sorry my friend, but your entire idea is off. You're setting yourself up to fail.

These are my opinions on the subject. Do yourself a major favor, and take this in mind.

You constantly posting messages like being the lawyer of filipinas.
You stuck with your ideas and you are almost aggressive against me.
Please, if you have something useful to contribute in my topics, proceed and do it.
Otherwise, please do not repeat in every topic I start, that 'you do not want to go there, blah, blah, blah.'
You have your opinions, do me a favor and don't post just to ruin my topics.

[Blue Murder]

You have no ambition to go abroad, or even visit these girls in their own countries in the first place. Therefore, all you will do is continue to send messages. Whether you message her first or she messages you first, is irrelevant. What you plan on doing has absolutely nothing to do with being Happier Abroad, you wish to be happier at home and select a girl from a catalogue, then pay for her ticket and make her fly to you. This strategy is not going to work.

Just saying "hi" on a dating site does not constitute a "first move". Sorry my friend, but your entire idea is off. You're setting yourself up to fail.

These are my opinions on the subject. Do yourself a major favor, and take this in mind.

You constantly posting messages like being the lawyer of filipinas.
You stuck with your ideas and you are almost aggressive against me.
Please, if you have something useful to contribute in my topics, proceed and do it.
Otherwise, please do not repeat in every topic I start, that 'you do not want to go there, blah, blah, blah.'
You have your opinions, do me a favor and don't post just to ruin my topics.

Ignore him. He's just a troll who is mad because he doesn't have a society to call his own. When he finds god he'll stop trolling.

[Adama]

If you choose number one, you'll have more success, and you will find that you can make her chase you. If you choose number two, then you will have an uphill battle. Let the woman make her choice. Then it is your choice if you like her. Then make her do the work for you. She's already decided she wants you. At that point you get to make up the terms. If she wants to stick around, she will follow your terms. If she doesnt want to follow your terms, then she can not stick around. This is how you make sure you don't become the beggar in the relationship. Women find it unattractive when men beg. In this way, you will not be the beggar. You become the chooser.

[davewe]

You have no ambition to go abroad, or even visit these girls in their own countries in the first place. Therefore, all you will do is continue to send messages. Whether you message her first or she messages you first, is irrelevant. What you plan on doing has absolutely nothing to do with being Happier Abroad, you wish to be happier at home and select a girl from a catalogue, then pay for her ticket and make her fly to you. This strategy is not going to work.

Just saying "hi" on a dating site does not constitute a "first move". Sorry my friend, but your entire idea is off. You're setting yourself up to fail.

These are my opinions on the subject. Do yourself a major favor, and take this in mind.

+1

Mentor's question in this case is not a terrible one. But since he now has a history, we all know he won't go abroad and won't listen to the views of guys who have had success abroad.

If he were serious I would say that establishing criteria and contacting women that meet those criteria is a good start. OTOH, don't discount the women that contact you first. It's not an either/or thing. At this point I cannot remember whether I contacted my wife first or she me - and it doesn't much matter.

[Ghost]

.

[mentor]

If you choose number one, you'll have more success, and you will find that you can make her chase you. If you choose number two, then you will have an uphill battle. Let the woman make her choice. Then it is your choice if you like her. Then make her do the work for you. She's already decided she wants you. At that point you get to make up the terms. If she wants to stick around, she will follow your terms. If she doesnt want to follow your terms, then she can not stick around. This is how you make sure you don't become the beggar in the relationship. Women find it unattractive when men beg. In this way, you will not be the beggar. You become the chooser.

I really, really, really, liked your post. A very mature position.

[MustVisitAsia123]

It's not that black and white but yes it's good to have the mindset of a chooser. You do have to make the effort though meaning you do have to take the initiative. You cannot expect the woman to make 90% of the effort. I saw one of your posts saying you would pay for her ticket so she would come see you. The chances of that happening is very low unless they are very desperate.

[mentor]

If you choose number one, you'll have more success, and you will find that you can make her chase you. If you choose number two, then you will have an uphill battle. Let the woman make her choice. Then it is your choice if you like her. Then make her do the work for you. She's already decided she wants you. At that point you get to make up the terms. If she wants to stick around, she will follow your terms. If she doesnt want to follow your terms, then she can not stick around. This is how you make sure you don't become the beggar in the relationship. Women find it unattractive when men beg. In this way, you will not be the beggar. You become the chooser.

I use to praise an opinion like this.
But after some contact attempts, I am not sure what is better.
I still believe that it is preferable to have a girl to chase you,
but I see that some girls that made the first move to me, when I replied to them seem to lose any interest in continuing messaging!
And it is not my fault, I was no rude, or any other bad thing, they just did not replied, even though they made the first move to me!
Questionable situation.

[Adama]

If you choose number one, you'll have more success, and you will find that you can make her chase you. If you choose number two, then you will have an uphill battle. Let the woman make her choice. Then it is your choice if you like her. Then make her do the work for you. She's already decided she wants you. At that point you get to make up the terms. If she wants to stick around, she will follow your terms. If she doesnt want to follow your terms, then she can not stick around. This is how you make sure you don't become the beggar in the relationship. Women find it unattractive when men beg. In this way, you will not be the beggar. You become the chooser.

I use to praise an opinion like this.
But after some contact attempts, I am not sure what is better.
I still believe that it is preferable to have a girl to chase you,
but I see that some girls that made the first move to me, when I replied to them seem to lose any interest in continuing messaging!
And it is not my fault, I was no rude, or any other bad thing, they just did not replied, even though they made the first move to me!
Questionable situation.

I've had that happen to me too, and my conclusion is this. There are just some women who only want to see if you want them. They want to know that you find them attractive enough that you would want them. And that is all they want. They can get off simply by the knowledge that you would want them. That's because they lack the courage to follow through. It's likely they are extremely attracted, but afraid. This may be especially true when she considers that you may be a higher rating in attractiveness than she is (by her own measure and determination, not yours). If the disparity is too great in your favor, then you become less realistic and more fantasy.

Also, when you respond, you can't revert back to submissive questioning. You have to keep hinting if you can, until she will just blurt out what she wants. Then you can just say, "That sounds like a great idea," or, "I'd like that." Then let her carry out the details.

If you have to work too hard though, she's just not interested and just playing around.

When I think back on all the times I actually "got" a woman, it was always the woman pursuing me. Every time. I can also remember several times that women were actively pursuing me, but I was too stupid and insecure to realize it at that time. And I also remember, that each time I pursued a woman, she ALWAYS flaked.

For me it is clear. The man must approach the woman AFTER she has given him an approach invitation. Then he must simply talk to her until she gets up the nerve to start making suggestions. Or he can make suggestions. But she's going to be the one to do the asking.

Asking is submissive, cause it is begging. Don't believe me? Its extremes are called "desperation" and "stalking."

[mentor]

Adama thanks for the valuable information.

So, I have two options:

1. They made the first move.
Then I send message. But they did not respond!
Do you suggest to give a second chance and send another message? Does it sounds like begging, or like giving a second chance to start communication? Any hit-phrase to broke the ice, if this is possible?

2. I made the first move.
And they respond, one time only.
I send message after confirming their interest.
But I got no response then!
So, what do you do in this situation?

--
3. (almost invalid)
Just sending message to a girl, without having sent even a 'hi' to me, or an 'interest', is not viable in my opinion, I will go with the other options for now.
So, either they contacted me first, or I sent interest and they respond one time, somehow (repay interest, or a simple message). This is the dual target group for now, and I think that you agree.

Of course, the option 2, passes for a while from phase 3. I sent interest or short message to see the reaction. If there is interest, I include her to target group, and possibly put some effort there.

So, give me some tactics advice for 1 and 2.

[mentor]

Any suggestions on the above?

[Adama]

1. I would say you should let the woman do most of the work. Let her do the chasing. Let her make the suggestions. If she really wants you, she should be able to figure it out. But if it comes down to time pressure where you'll never see her again, you can blatantly make the suggestion. If she ignores your suggestion, then leave her alone. Either she was just playing games, or she's uninterested, or she's too scared to bother with.

Number 2 is very unclear to me what is going on. But if a woman isn't fully participating, then move on. I think women should be doing at least 75% of the work. When they want you, they can muster up the strength to do the asking, if you have enough rapport that you can have conversations.

3. It isn't your job as a man to send messages, if you mean by that selecting the girl. It is the woman who selects the man first. Then the man gets to see if he is willing to accept her. A man generally doesnt get to pick the woman. The woman must decide yes in her mind first. The chances of a man convincing a woman to say yes when she hasn't already decided no are slim. It can be done, but you'd have to be an accomplished master.

If any of this is about online conversation then I can't comment, because I don't participate in that.

I also don't know what you mean by "making the first move." Specifics are important to make sure we are discussing the same things.

[Mr Natural]

MarcosZeitola gave you the best reply but you don't want to hear it. Forget the online stuff and go there, there are guys that have made the online method work but in fact they are a very small percentage. But your question about "tactics" applies whether online or in person, and I would say it depends on your personality, how much time you have, and your standards. Traditionally minded girls tend to be quite shy and reserved so if you sit back and wait for them to come to you, well, you might wait a long time for the right one to approach you. Also the overwhelming percentage that approaches you will be the type you should actually avoid. But I can't emphasize enough - forget the online stuff and go there.

[Mr Natural]

But Marcos, he did ask a legitimate question that others might be interested in as well - whether you should pick them or let them pick you. I think that question is relevant either online or in person. If he doesn't want to follow up then it's his loss. But for me, there is no doubt which way is better. In this world, if you want something you have to reach out and get it. Waiting for someone else to drop it in your lap is a losers game.