You can be just as happy in the USA as you can overseas.

[cdnFA]

You can be just as happy in the U.S. as long as you don't care about:

-Dating
-Sex
-Relationships
-Marriage
-Family
-Community
-Free Speech
-Friendship
-Good Jobs
-Opportunities
-Being a Second-class Citizen

Other than those things, this is a great place!

I'll speak for Canada.

My brother is not exactly a hot dude and he struggled at the beginning of his work life a bit.
He dated, had sex and married in his mid 20's and has an adopted kids [bad plumbing on her part]
At the adoption ceremony is home was packed with friends and relations. I mean to the brim.
We both have the right to say pretty just about anything worth saying short of slander and libel. Other people have the right to tell us to shut the f**k up. The reverse is also true. Even though there are hate speech laws on the books I've heard and told many a horribly racist joke. If you think free speech means that anyone, even a NAMBLA member should have the right to talk about whatever they want to whoever they want, you have a pretty messed up view of freedom of speech. Sure what we have isn't a 100% but it is far north of 99%. I don't think I will cry over not being able to write books about how Elbonians should be slaughtered.
Friendship, see above.
My bro and his wife travel all over the world and have jobs they both enjoy quite a bit. Live in a nice home in a central location. Their biggest problem is that they might be putting too much away in their RRSPs.

I'll give you the second class citizen thing. Not being a member of the master race I have to pay 8% VAT on all my purchases and I can't avoid the 5% federal VAT. I also can't avoid paying income taxes like members of the master race do on income earned on reserve.


Now myself, I've been a horrible failure in life, however I also know I am in the bottom 1 percent. However for normal people, Canada is a pretty swell place to be.

Also much of those areas are problems overseas also.
You give up family.
Marriage can be a problem.
You want to tell a Chinese Japanese or a Flip what is wrong with his country? Perhaps go to Beijing and talking about how Tibet should be independent?
Friendships which are often very superficial from what I hear or based on mooching depending on country or both.
I doubt there are many opportunities in places like Thailand or the PI. In Korea, Japan and China unless you want to be a performing circus monkey/human tape recorder the jobs and opportunities are even more limited.
Second class citizen. Don't make me laugh. You get in a fight with the locals in most of these places and no matter right or wrong, things will not end well for you. As for Thailand or the Philippines forget about it, the courts won't help you at all except in the most unusual cases.


So for sex and dating you give up an awful lot, the exact thing differing by country.
Want to know that if you need to take a dump real bad you don't have to deal with some squat toilet that is filthy.
Want friends who share your background and actually like you for you and not as a fashion accessory/English Lessons/guy who will lend money and not get it back.
Modern infrastructure.
People who will actually let you know what you are doing wrong instead of have you make a fool of yourself over and over again [Japan, looking at you here]
Knowing if you get into problems with people, you are not considered automatically guilty because you are the foreigner.
Being able to express yourself on reasonable complains about a place
Not being told to go back to your own country.
Being able to breathe without shortening your life by a lot.
Being able to trust the food you eat to a pretty good degree. Hmmm gutter oil.
etc.

[The_Adventurer]

I think it depends wholly on what you want. If I could work on The Flash or Arrow, or maybe for that Sharknado company, and had the salary expected to go with that, I could be pretty happy in America. I would have lots of stuff and it would be stuff that I would enjoy.

The problem is I have my own stories I want to tell. My own characters and my own shows. I can't afford to make and market them in America. That is assuming there is a market for my stuff in America. I wrote before how I sold more DVDs in one day in Japan that in a month in USA, and that solidified my idea for a life abroad.

[WorldTraveler]

Now myself, I've been a horrible failure in life, however I also know I am in the bottom 1 percent. However for normal people, Canada is a pretty swell place to be.

Also much of those areas are problems overseas also.
You give up family.
Marriage can be a problem.
You want to tell a Chinese Japanese or a Flip what is wrong with his country? Perhaps go to Beijing and talking about how Tibet should be independent?
Friendships which are often very superficial from what I hear or based on mooching depending on country or both.
I doubt there are many opportunities in places like Thailand or the PI. In Korea, Japan and China unless you want to be a performing circus monkey/human tape recorder the jobs and opportunities are even more limited.
Second class citizen. Don't make me laugh. You get in a fight with the locals in most of these places and no matter right or wrong, things will not end well for you. As for Thailand or the Philippines forget about it, the courts won't help you at all except in the most unusual cases.


So for sex and dating you give up an awful lot, the exact thing differing by country.
Want to know that if you need to take a dump real bad you don't have to deal with some squat toilet that is filthy.
Want friends who share your background and actually like you for you and not as a fashion accessory/English Lessons/guy who will lend money and not get it back.
Modern infrastructure.
People who will actually let you know what you are doing wrong instead of have you make a fool of yourself over and over again [Japan, looking at you here]
Knowing if you get into problems with people, you are not considered automatically guilty because you are the foreigner.
Being able to express yourself on reasonable complains about a place
Not being told to go back to your own country.
Being able to breathe without shortening your life by a lot.
Being able to trust the food you eat to a pretty good degree. Hmmm gutter oil.
etc.

So why are you in the bottom 1%?

It's great to know there are people in West that want to hold down the fort.
All my American friends would never live anywhere else.

[cdnFA]

So why are you in the bottom 1%?

Too much to get into but it could happen to anyone anywhere.

It's a good thing I didn't grow up in Japan, I never would have made adulthood.

[chanta76]

I'm going to play devil advocate. Isn't it possible that the guys who are not happy in USA just couldn't make it. The so called social loser. Where as the other guy who was able to make it is happy here? It's like the haves and have not. We speak about men going overseas but realistically there still more men who prefer to be in the states. Plus there are immigrant men who wants to come to the USA. So if USA was so horrible how can this be? There are American men still getting married or getting laid or making money in the USA. So maybe the guys who post here or Roosh are special bunch.

[Yohan]

I'm going to play devil advocate. Isn't it possible that the guys who are not happy in USA just couldn't make it. The so called social loser.

You can say the same about me and Europe. I think, yes, I was the social loser - but it is wrong to keep only me responsible for that situation.

We cannot choose our parents, or otherwise circumstances around us how we are born. Some of us were born in a rich country, some were born in a nice family etc. but others were born in a violent place, living in poverty, or abandoned or mistreated by parents and relatives as unwanted child, some were lucky and found other people who were helpful and understanding to them, but others found nobody, some gave totally up ending even in criminality - others tried to change their life and moved away and found a better life... like I did myself.

Of course if everything is fine for you why to move to another country? It's somewhat about good and bad luck, we cannot change our past, how we are born and we also do not know about our future.

[Yohan]

It's a good thing I didn't grow up in Japan, I never would have made adulthood.

What is wrong with Japan? This is still by far the best country in all Asia if you ask me. I am living in Japan since almost 40 years now and have no intention ever to go back to Europe, even not for a short visit.

[The_Adventurer]

I'm going to play devil advocate. Isn't it possible that the guys who are not happy in USA just couldn't make it. The so called social loser. Where as the other guy who was able to make it is happy here? It's like the haves and have not. We speak about men going overseas but realistically there still more men who prefer to be in the states. Plus there are immigrant men who wants to come to the USA. So if USA was so horrible how can this be? There are American men still getting married or getting laid or making money in the USA. So maybe the guys who post here or Roosh are special bunch.

That is a gross oversimplification of things. It also implies that all those who remain behind in USA are happy, or have a choice. You can see an article on here now about record numbers of Americans renouncing citizenship and jumping ship. We also, all know that many immigrants come to the USA, make their money and leave.

James Cameron, creator of Terminator and Avatar, renounced citizenship and left USA for New Zealand. Buffet, on the other hand, thinks America is the greatest and not only wants to stay, but still recommends investing in America's grossly overvalued stock market.

People will also go where opportunity is. Why are most American TV shows made in Canada? It began with the difference in the US dollar versus the Canadian dollar. It became a case where Canada began offering numerous incentives and tax breaks to bring production to its shores. It worked. A large majority of writers, producers, crew and VFX artists relocated to Canada. Does that mean they couldn't make it in USA? Or does it mean that if you wanted to work on Stargate, you go to where Stargate is made?

A number of US citizens have made their way to Japan and become manga artists or gotten work in the anime industry. (same in Korea) Does this mean they couldn't make it in USA? There is no anime industry in USA. And unless you like drawing musclebound superheroes, there's not much a comic industry either.

The USA, being one of the first and most advanced industrial nations, is pretty much all built up. Places in Asia, however, are experiencing explosive growth. They need buildings, bridges, phone lines and all manner of infrastructure. Architects, engineers, contractors and the like go to these places where they can do what they love, and get paid big to do it. I have read about American architects who may get to be the lead on a project in China, whereas they have no such opportunity in USA< because such large scale projects simply aren't being done. They're already done and finished in USA.

Then there are those who simply want something different. I worked on numerous AAA games in USA. I worked in Hollywood. Yeah, it was SyFy and not Lucasfilm, but I had six figure salaries and my name on the front end credits in films. I would say I made it. But I wasn't happy. I simply wanted to do other things. I have never made even a third of the money I made in one year in USA out here, but I am happier. Same as a black dude I know who worked in a Korean studio. He wasn't getting paid a quarter of what he could get at Disney, and skill wise he could be at Disney, but he is doing the kind of stuff he loves in Korea. (anime style of course)

For retirees is it really about making it? If a guy retires on a $1500 per month pension, doesn't it simply make sense to go where that pension will get him the most.

Finally, is it possible that the USA was the greatest place to be in the 80's and maybe part of the 90's? Is it possible that things have slowly changed? As seen in another thread, the number of expats and people renouncing citizenship has been constantly increasing for decades. I would have never fathomed leaving in the 80's or 90's, until I made my first trip to Japan. Even then, it was not because I thought Japan was "better", just because I could sell more there. The USA is not what it used to be, and many people are stuck. It is either lack of funds or lack of knowledge that keeps them stuck.

[chanta76]

the_adventurer,

I don't discount the fact there are some Americans who are not happy here and if they can would want to relocate or better their situation. Granted having the ability or economics to relocate helps but for some people they lack those. As you mentioned China is a boom in growth but you have to have a skill set to work in those industry. Most expats from I read turn to ESL . I think you have a unique skill set and the circle of people you met also have a unique skill set.

However, isn't it also a gross oversimplification to assume that those who are in America are miserable? It's like saying anyone who lives in America is miserable and really wants to relocate. I don't think that's the case.

I'm kind of surprise your friend likes working in Korea. One of the complaints I get from kyopo that worked there was the work culture. Either your friend got lucky with a unique Korean Anime company or it's something else. What I mean is you probably experience this since you worked in Asia. You know the workers go home only when the boss goes home even if the work is done. After work session drinking time and how sometimes your life is the company. I'm not saying all Asian companies are like this but many are still like this.

[cdnFA]

It's a good thing I didn't grow up in Japan, I never would have made adulthood.

What is wrong with Japan? This is still by far the best country in all Asia if you ask me. I am living in Japan since almost 40 years now and have no intention ever to go back to Europe, even not for a short visit.

ijime
This nail would have been hammered down very hard
Throw in that gaman spirit where I'd be forced to keep it to myself and suffer in silence and there would be no chance that in the same situation I wouldn't have tossed myself in front of a train or taken a walk into some deep forest.

Japan can be great if you are on top but for the others it can be hell.
Insane workweek hours, black companies, being groped [even kids] on the metro, rapes being often ignored and a stifling culture of conformity.

Japan might be the best country is Asia but that isn't raising the bar very high considering the only other options are overpriced city states, third world cesspits, Korea and Taiwan. As for better than Europe,
I believe that you believe that it is better than Europe and in your particular case it may very well be however in general I'd say not. As a foreigner and thus not really human as well as having a penis you get to escape the suck that others have to endure. Also over and over I hear that very few western foreigners can hack it in Japan for more than 5 to 7 years unless they are forced to, OTOH I hear over and over that a lot of Japanese once they taste life without the Japanese bubble often don't want to go back. Exceptions yadda yadda.

Maybe if I moved to Japan as an adult it would work out for me as it did for you. I am a loser here and one would be willing to give up a lot if it meant having an actual social life [although many complain about the shallowness and difficulty in forming friendships in Japan]. However I would never extend my own personal fail to say that Japan was a better country to live in than Canada. It isn't, even if it happened to work for me.

[Yohan]

ijime
This nail would have been hammered down very hard
Throw in that gaman spirit where I'd be forced to keep it to myself and suffer in silence and there would be no chance that in the same situation I wouldn't have tossed myself in front of a train or taken a walk into some deep forest.
Japan can be great if you are on top but for the others it can be hell.
Insane workweek hours, black companies, being groped [even kids] on the metro, rapes being often ignored and a stifling culture of conformity.
.....
However I would never extend my own personal fail to say that Japan was a better country to live in than Canada...

These are all very strange arguments, very much exaggerated. It depends how you arrange your life in Japan, and believe me, many young Japanese men and women are not into long working hours, prefer to get paid per hour and walk away if they have the slightest problem with the company.

Many Japanese have own shops and businesses, and if you think, Japan can be great, but for others it can be hell, well I can say the same about USA, China, India, Iran or about almost any other country in this world.

Working time is not so bad in Japan, compare it to South Korea, payment is not so bad, compare it to China...
Medical care is also good in Japan, compare it to many countries in Asia like Philippines (pay cash or die early)
about crime compared to USA it is about 1:20, not bad either. You can go out day and night for a walk around without being worried to be robbed at knife-point.

About daily life in Japan, my older daughter was living with her Japanese husband in France and HongKong and they came back to Japan, their comment 'much better in Japan', my younger daughter married an American Asian (Canadian-Japanese but with English native language), they were living in Canada and USA and finally came back to Japan, their comment 'much better in Japan'. My wife is Japanese anyway, no intention ever to move to Europe with me and about myself, I prefer Japan to Europe anytime.

About work, in Japan there are many companies with international connection, like trading companies, major hotels, international schools, shipping companies, etc. - in such companies you will find good working conditions as a foreigner if you have some educational background.

The only major problem I see is maybe about housing in the major cities, Metropolitan Tokyo (all together with all cities around) has now about 38 million people, and prices for buying your own accommodation or paying rent for a reasonable flat are very high. However it was told to me, it's about the same in London, Paris, Rome, Hong Kong, Singapore, some major cities in USA etc.

[The_Adventurer]

However, isn't it also a gross oversimplification to assume that those who are in America are miserable? It's like saying anyone who lives in America is miserable and really wants to relocate. I don't think that's the case.

It's an outrageous oversimplification. No one I know is miserable there in the same fashion as people on this board. In all my years out here I have gotten maybe one or two inquiries from people back home about expatriating. As i mentioned, James Cameron vs. Warren Buffet. Two rich, successful people. One renounced citizenship and left, the other thinks it's the greatest place on earth. Even those articles about record numbers of people leaving, in the grand scheme of things it's not even 1%. The point, though, was that if it was the greatest, as some say, no one would leave, and everyone, the world over would want to go to USA. That's also a gross exaggeration.

I'm kind of surprise your friend likes working in Korea. One of the complaints I get from kyopo that worked there was the work culture. Either your friend got lucky with a unique Korean Anime company or it's something else. What I mean is you probably experience this since you worked in Asia. You know the workers go home only when the boss goes home even if the work is done. After work session drinking time and how sometimes your life is the company. I'm not saying all Asian companies are like this but many are still like this.

Most animators already work like that... because they want to.

[The_Adventurer]

ijime
This nail would have been hammered down very hard
Throw in that gaman spirit where I'd be forced to keep it to myself and suffer in silence and there would be no chance that in the same situation I wouldn't have tossed myself in front of a train or taken a walk into some deep forest.

Japan can be great if you are on top but for the others it can be hell.
Insane workweek hours, black companies, being groped [even kids] on the metro, rapes being often ignored and a stifling culture of conformity.

Japan might be the best country is Asia but that isn't raising the bar very high considering the only other options are overpriced city states, third world cesspits, Korea and Taiwan. As for better than Europe,
I believe that you believe that it is better than Europe and in your particular case it may very well be however in general I'd say not. As a foreigner and thus not really human as well as having a penis you get to escape the suck that others have to endure. Also over and over I hear that very few western foreigners can hack it in Japan for more than 5 to 7 years unless they are forced to, OTOH I hear over and over that a lot of Japanese once they taste life without the Japanese bubble often don't want to go back. Exceptions yadda yadda.

Maybe if I moved to Japan as an adult it would work out for me as it did for you. I am a loser here and one would be willing to give up a lot if it meant having an actual social life [although many complain about the shallowness and difficulty in forming friendships in Japan]. However I would never extend my own personal fail to say that Japan was a better country to live in than Canada. It isn't, even if it happened to work for me.

How long did you live in Japan? What was your job there?

While it's certainly not for everybody, it sounds a bit like you are repeating extreme examples of things from sensationalist news sources, or second hand gossip, and making it out to be every day occurrences. How many years have you spent in any part of Asia? How many years have you spend outside Canada?

In different threads, you've said this 5 to 7 years thing about nearly every country discussed on this board. Where are you getting this information? Surely you are aware that for every single country we talk about, there are multiple forums dedicated to expats just for that country, right? They include people who flame out quickly to people living there decades.

Are you trying to talk yourself out of taking a chance and giving it a try?

[Jonny Law]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h76sIU5RE8

I dont know what it is with these type of guys. Every time I tell my American friends that I spend half the year overseas, a few of them will start lecturing me about how everything i am looking for i can get right here in the USA. All the p***y, inner peace and social attention that i need are right here in the USA. Its always the guys who have never left the country who will tell you this and they will tell you how successful they are because they are living proof of the American dream (by marrying a 40 year old single mother, buying houses with money they dont have, maxing out their credit cards on boats, etc). Do you guys think its a misery loves company mentality?

Travis Craft is a FAGGOT!
Travis Craft says: don't live overseas (Travis Craft lives in the Philippines).

I live in Thailand. Girls treat me life a f***ing KING!

-Warning-
Watch your wallet here in SE Asia.

[Adama]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h76sIU5RE8

I dont know what it is with these type of guys. Every time I tell my American friends that I spend half the year overseas, a few of them will start lecturing me about how everything i am looking for i can get right here in the USA. All the p***y, inner peace and social attention that i need are right here in the USA. Its always the guys who have never left the country who will tell you this and they will tell you how successful they are because they are living proof of the American dream (by marrying a 40 year old single mother, buying houses with money they dont have, maxing out their credit cards on boats, etc). Do you guys think its a misery loves company mentality?

The problem isn't international versus American. The problem is that you are pouring out your thoughts, feelings, hopes, opinions, goals, fears and desires to other people. The only time you should do such a thing is when you know you are in like-minded company.

I don't care what the topic is. It could be chocolate ice cream versus vanilla, but I am telling you, if you express your hopes and dreams to most other people who don't have those same dreams, they almost always will attempt to ridicule and crush those dreams, or opinions. It doesn't matter what it is.

This is most especially true when you go against the mainstream, or if there is a cultural bias that you are going up against. If there is a strong cultural opinion that things are better off one way, if you choose, talk about, perform or in any way even recommend another way, then you will be personally attacked, ridiculed, and even your character may be assassinated.

You have no idea how petty the average person is. You have no idea how personally people take things that challenge their beliefs.

It isn't that you are going overseas per se. It is that you are going against the grain of the mainstream cultural opinion. You're expressing this to people. Naturally they are going to attempt to tear it apart, because it challenges their pre-existing world view which is a blow to the ego.

Any time you open your mouth, just be prepared that others are probably going to disagree. Now I realize that's why small talk is so important in the USA. You are limited to small talk: the weather, the time of day, good aspects of work, sports, current events. THAT'S IT.

You shouldn't be talking about anything of any importance with most people. Don't expect to find camaraderie with most people.