Why Men Still Defend Marriage

[Shemp]

Contrarian Expatriate is overstating the case against marriage. Marriage still works fine where the legal system does not reward women for divorce, separation, adultery, getting fat and unattractive, losing interest in sex, etc. In the Philippines, for example, women suffer when the man abandons them or ceases to find the woman attractive, so women there normally try to remain attractive to their husbands. Of course, everyone grows old and the young beautiful wife eventually becones old and not so beautiful, but that's not a reason to avoid marriage. Many men want a family with children and marriage is the normal way to get that. As long as you marry and continue to live in a man-friendly legal system, like the Philippines, I see no reason why the pluses of married life shouldn't outweigh the minuses. In a man-hostile legal system, like the USA, on the other hand, marriage is indeed very dangerous for men.

I never had and still don't have at desire for children, which is why I never married myself, since no reason for marriage if no children involved.

I never had problems hooking up with girls who had decent jobs. My gf in Malta was a corporate lawyer, in London I had flings with a couple of City slickers who were making more than double my salary.

You "hooked up" and had "flings" with women living the sterile feminist/homosexual Sex and the City lifestyle. You didn't marry and have children with these women. Or to be more precise, they didn't marry and have children with you. Women generally don't like to marry and have children with men who earn less money than them.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Contrarian Expatriate is overstating the case against marriage. Marriage still works fine where the legal system does not reward women for divorce, separation, adultery, getting fat and unattractive, losing interest in sex, etc. In the Philippines, for example, women suffer when the man abandons them or ceases to find the woman attractive, so women there normally try to remain attractive to their husbands. Of course, everyone grows old and the young beautiful wife eventually becones old and not so beautiful, but that's not a reason to avoid marriage. Many men want a family with children and marriage is the normal way to get that. As long as you marry and continue to live in a man-friendly legal system, like the Philippines, I see no reason why the pluses of married life shouldn't outweigh the minuses. In a man-hostile legal system, like the USA, on the other hand, marriage is indeed very dangerous for men.

Or maybe you are just UNDERSTATING the cases (not just one) against marriage. There is nothing in what you wrote that necessitates inviting the state into your personal life, man-friendly country or not. If you want to raise children, choose a mother for your children and raise them together. Marriage does not even have to be in the calculus.

As I've said before, guys like yourself are brainwashed to think that marriage is just the thing you do if you want a family. And like those others you've been duped by the silly groupthink.

And to your argument that marriage is the "normal way" to get preside over a family, you should be ashamed. If I told you the "normal way" is living in high consumer debt and two paychecks from bankruptcy, would you start advocating that for the young guys to follow too? What about the 'normal way" to becoming educated by taking on six figures of student loan debt? Does that justify following suit? Put your thinking cap on! Any "normal way" argument when it comes to the Western world is almost by definition harmful these days.

Marriage is a raw deal for men, period! That includes marriage in the West or any other society where men are said to have more rights than women.

[Shemp]

If you want to raise children, choose a mother for your children and raise them together. Marriage does not even have to be in the calculus.

Quality women are (at least by my definition of quality) not stupid and therefore will reject the terms you propose because it's a raw deal for them. Specifically, if a western man tells a quality Filipina that he wants to have a family without marriage, she will next him. With a low quality Filipina, maybe you can get her pregnant and then refuse to marry her. If abortion not an option, then the plan works, and indeed this is the plan I would use if I wanted children in the USA (I think I already discussed this earlier). That is, knock up some quality woman in the USA and then weasel out of marriage, so I'd be on the hook for child support (assuming a DNA test showed the baby was mine, note that another reason to be afraid of marriage in the USA is possibility of child support for another man's children) but not alimony, community property, etc.

Quality women in the USA are not afraid of single motherhood or families without marriage to the father because of the strong safety net, including child support at a fairly high level. Philippines lacks a strong safety net for single mothers and high quality Filipinas know it, so they will insist on birth control before marriage, and so the plan described above won't work there. On the other hand, danger to the man from marriage is much less in the Philippines.

You, CE, are filled with irrational obsessive hatred about this issue. As noted, I have no dog in the fight myself since I never wanted children. I'm just presenting a coldly rational view of how to best manage the current legal environment, for men who do want children.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Quality women are (at least by my definition of quality) not stupid and therefore will reject the terms you propose because it's a raw deal for them. Specifically, if a western man tells a quality Filipina that he wants to have a family without marriage, she will next him.

I have never been to the Philippines and I have no interest in going there. So why that is serving as your model of women in the world, I have no idea. Also, speak for yourself when you say women there will instantly next you. I think that says far more about you than it does the women there.

If I understand Winston's situation, he is not married to the mother of his child and it works for him since he wanted to go that route. So again, don't project your personal limitations with women on to others here.

You, CE, are filled with irrational obsessive hatred about this issue. As noted, I have no dog in the fight myself since I never wanted children.

If I am guilty of hatred, it is hatred for the institution of marriage and how it is used as a means for women to control or manipulate the man using the state. The fact that this DESTROYS countless men's lives both in and outside of the West means that I stand guilty as charged on the hatred issue.

I'm just presenting a coldly rational view of how to best manage the current legal environment, for men who do want children.

Not even close..... To be rational, you at least have to have a command of the facts and the issue first. Your view of marriage based on your personal experience of being "nexted" in the Philippines is sophistry at best and wickedly deceitful at worst when you know younger men are new to considering the risks and dangers of marriage while society's idiots are continuously trying to sell them on it. Shame on you for even thinking you are being helpful to them!

[hypermak]

If you want to raise children, choose a mother for your children and raise them together. Marriage does not even have to be in the calculus.

Quality women are (at least by my definition of quality) not stupid and therefore will reject the terms you propose because it's a raw deal for them. Specifically, if a western man tells a quality Filipina that he wants to have a family without marriage, she will next him. With a low quality Filipina, maybe you can get her pregnant and then refuse to marry her. If abortion not an option, then the plan works, and indeed this is the plan I would use if I wanted children in the USA (I think I already discussed this earlier). That is, knock up some quality woman in the USA and then weasel out of marriage, so I'd be on the hook for child support (assuming a DNA test showed the baby was mine, note that another reason to be afraid of marriage in the USA is possibility of child support for another man's children) but not alimony, community property, etc.

Quality women in the USA are not afraid of single motherhood or families without marriage to the father because of the strong safety net, including child support at a fairly high level. Philippines lacks a strong safety net for single mothers and high quality Filipinas know it, so they will insist on birth control before marriage, and so the plan described above won't work there. On the other hand, danger to the man from marriage is much less in the Philippines.

You, CE, are filled with irrational obsessive hatred about this issue. As noted, I have no dog in the fight myself since I never wanted children. I'm just presenting a coldly rational view of how to best manage the current legal environment, for men who do want children.

Raising children in a committed, monogamous relationship without being married is actually getting more common in the UK and even in Italy. I have several friends who have been in a relationship for 10+ years, often with one or two kids, and never felt the need to be married. Some of them are lefties and abhor the religious legacy of marriage, some of them just see it as a waste of money, etc.

What CE is against is the legal implications of a failed marriage. What he probably fails to see is that most family court will treat a committed multi-year relationship as having virtually equal rights as one "blessed" by marriage.

I read about a case in the UK of a man who was asked to contribute to his ex-gf's rent because they had been living together for 2.5 years. In the eye of the judge, that man had committed to supporting his gf from the onset, so the arrangement had to be honoured as if they were married.

There is little space left for blue pillers who are keen to find loopholes. I don't know Contrarian's personal story but I wouldn't be surprised if he's simply travelling as a single man and sugar daddying the occasional Eastern European or Latin American girl while bragging about his grooming abilities. He certainly sounds like that kind of man.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

We have already established that I hope you do get married so go ahead! You will grow more wise as a man and you'll learn to heed the advice of more experience and worldly-wise men who warn you. But that is where you need growth, so go ahead and marry so you can be a cautionary tale for others.

What CE is against is the legal implications of a failed marriage.

You think that is the ONLY thing I am against with marriage? Not even close. Marriage is a means to dissuade the male to leave the relationship and to financially incentivize the female to leave (at least in the West). What results is misery for BOTH parties. The female becomes controlling, and the male becomes either passive or abusive to reestablish dominance depending upon the personality.

What he probably fails to see is that most family court will treat a committed multi-year relationship as having virtually equal rights as one "blessed" by marriage.

These are the kinds of opinions you get from truly stupid people who have a modicum of information, yet they think they know everything there is to know.

In actuality, that is a giant myth, at least in the West. Common Law marriage is NOT automatic and the woman would have to first show that you put yourself out to the community as married by showing documents, testimony from people you told you were married, insurance documents, bank documents, wills, deeds, etc. It is extremely difficult to prove common law marriage unless both parties WANT to be considered married, usually after a death of one spouse.

Cohabiting vs marriage: Six ways your rights differ
-If one cohabiting partner dies without leaving a will, the surviving partner will not automatically inherit anything - unless the couple jointly own property. A married partner would inherit all or some of the estate

-An unmarried partner who stays at home to care for children cannot make any claims in their own right for property, maintenance or pension-sharing.

-Cohabiting partners cannot access their partner's bank account if they die - whereas married couples may be allowed to withdraw the balance providing the amount is small

-An unmarried couple can separate without going to court, but married couples need to go to a court and get divorced to end the marriage formally

-Cohabiting couples are not legally obliged to support each other financially, but married partners have a legal duty to support each other

-If you are the unmarried partner of a tenant, you have no rights to stay in the accommodation if you are asked to leave - but each married partner has the right to live in the "matrimonial home"

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42134722

I say again, go ahead and get married so you'll get the best life lesson possible. The smarter men will sit back and gloat.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Get married and this will be you!

[jamesbond]

This one gives me mixed feelings because I actually admire this YouTuber. But in the interest of destroying the spirits of Cucks and blue pill simps, I confess to gloating just a little on this one.

Ignore the tenets of MGTOW all you wish; one day the light bulb will come on when the figurative bricks come a tumbling down.

Graham Stephan interviews the guy who's wife left him and took their son to Japan.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Graham Stephan interviews the guy who's wife left him and took their son to Japan.

Thanks for posting this! He is clearly a high IQ individual with an extremely low measure of common sense. People like that have episodes of high success and come crashing down periodically. I would not be surprised if he is on the autism spectrum at the high functioning level.

What also struck me is the minimization of his wife's act. She committed the crime of kidnapping. She duped him by getting him to sign a passport application for their child which apparently went right over his head. And for him to not file legal charges against his wife is just plain lunacy.

Again, the guy probably does advanced calculus for mere fun, but can't see the forest for the trees with regard things that require a more nuanced eye rather than a logical and scientific one. Women tend to hate living with that type of man and his wife was driving to the breaking point.

Given his proclivities, I would predict that he end up getting married again, and again never realizing that marriage is a government-sactioned dupe on behalf of women.

[hypermak]

We have already established that I hope you do get married so go ahead! You will grow more wise as a man and you'll learn to heed the advice of more experience and worldly-wise men who warn you. But that is where you need growth, so go ahead and marry so you can be a cautionary tale for others.

I presume you haven't been married before and your experience is based on reading blogs and forums like these, where horror stories about divorce rape and horrible vagina-ed beings abound. If that is the case, your word is really is as "wise" as mine, mate. I respect your opinion but please accept that this is not what everybody thinks.

And beyond this, I am not saying I want to get married soon, certainly not to be divorce-raped and become another example in your "experience bag". Perhaps in one or two year, when the p**sy carousel starts wearing down, I would hope I have enough experience (and I mean personal experience!) and enough luck to find a girl who is truly worth getting off said p**sy carousel.

I hope this makes it clearer. More than this, I would have to probably speak to you in a different language.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

We have already established that I hope you do get married so go ahead! You will grow more wise as a man and you'll learn to heed the advice of more experience and worldly-wise men who warn you. But that is where you need growth, so go ahead and marry so you can be a cautionary tale for others.

I am not saying I want to get married soon, certainly not to be divorce-raped and become another example in your "experience bag". Perhaps in one or two year, when the p**sy carousel starts wearing down, I would hope I have enough experience (and I mean personal experience!) and enough luck to find a girl who is truly worth getting off said p**sy carousel.

Why the wait? If marriage is such a blissful and cathartic thing, jump right into it! Sounds like you might be having a glimmer of common sense sprouting after all. But if not, go get married sooner rather than later so that other men can learn from your mistake.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

We have already established that I hope you do get married so go ahead! You will grow more wise as a man and you'll learn to heed the advice of more experience and worldly-wise men who warn you. But that is where you need growth, so go ahead and marry so you can be a cautionary tale for others.

I am not saying I want to get married soon, certainly not to be divorce-raped and become another example in your "experience bag". Perhaps in one or two year, when the p**sy carousel starts wearing down, I would hope I have enough experience (and I mean personal experience!) and enough luck to find a girl who is truly worth getting off said p**sy carousel.

Why the wait? If marriage is such a blissful and cathartic thing, jump right into it! Sounds like you might be having a glimmer of common sense sprouting after all. But if not, go get married sooner rather than later so that other men can learn from your mistake.

What the fuvk is wrong with these noobs, man??

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I'm married, I have four children and I am not miserable. My wife is not a crazy unreasonable bitch from hell, we regularly get it on and still have plenty of shit to talk about it even seven years into our marriage. I love my family and I love my life, right now. If ever my marriage would end, I feel like I got more out of it than I put in, in the long run. Of course, time will tell. But the future is as bleak as you make it.

If you want to marry, by all means go for it. If you don't want to, don't, more power to you. I see a lot of unhappy singles in my personal life, and a lot of unhappy married couples. But I see a lot of happy singles and happy couples, too, and it really isn't the miserable, destitute wasteland full of misery and despair some try to sell to you. Well, not in a lot of other countries, anyway. Maybe America is different. It seems to be, as a lot of posters are from America. In Europe, Latin America, Asia, the Middle East, it doesn't quite feel as bleak as some make it out to be.

Now you KNOW you don't really believe that!

As for trying to pawn this off as just an American thing, this guy is in the video lives in JAPAN.

Notice when he admits that he could have NEVER said these things while he was still with his wife, but now he can! He suffered from the marital silencing that you currently do.


This guy is from New Zealand

[Contrarian Expatriate]

We have already established that I hope you do get married so go ahead! You will grow more wise as a man and you'll learn to heed the advice of more experience and worldly-wise men who warn you. But that is where you need growth, so go ahead and marry so you can be a cautionary tale for others.

I am not saying I want to get married soon, certainly not to be divorce-raped and become another example in your "experience bag". Perhaps in one or two year, when the p**sy carousel starts wearing down, I would hope I have enough experience (and I mean personal experience!) and enough luck to find a girl who is truly worth getting off said p**sy carousel.

Why the wait? If marriage is such a blissful and cathartic thing, jump right into it! Sounds like you might be having a glimmer of common sense sprouting after all. But if not, go get married sooner rather than later so that other men can learn from your mistake.

What the fuvk is wrong with these noobs, man??

Part of it is stupidity quite honestly, but most of it is social conditioning. Men wanting to marry is like the adult version of the older child believing there really is a Santa Claus despite all evidence to the contrary.

I did get @mrman to lightly admit that wives are a pain in the azz, but he would not permit himself to admit that marriage sucks because that would be a painful realization of personal failure. So he goes on an on now about how marriage is just "good" because being free to just up and leave when you want "deprives yourself the of the need to work things out and, besides, the population would end without it Poor guy....

In the case of @hypermak specifically, I just think he, like a lot of men, was brainwashed over the years with the blue pill fantasy of married life. When I think about it, most guys like him are utter powerless to think straight about it when all your life your parents, your relatives, your female friends, television, films, popular music, government, and your religious faith bangs you over the head with the advise that marriage is good and you should get married. Guys who are just not bright enough to logically and rationally think these social dupe games thru will fall for it each and every time. That's why I encourage him to actually get married so when he is financially and emotionally ass-raped, it will finally sink in for him.

[hypermak]

What the fuvk is wrong with these noobs, man??

@E Irizarry R&B Singer, I have read a few of your past posts. Yes you are single but...are you really enjoying your lifestyle and the kind of ladies you can find? You don't sound like you had too much fun in Latin America and even in Africa. Are you even open to the possibility of showing some commitment to a woman, if she is worth it? If not, you will have to be a pretty hot stud to get a good looking girl to have s*x with you as a reward for just turning up.

What I am trying to say here is: with the ladies like with everything else in life it's garbage in, garbage out. Very, very few of us can get some of the finest things in life without putting some effort to earn them. We often need to put 10 to get 5, but very rarely we can put 5 and get 6.

In the case of @hypermak specifically, I just think he, like a lot of men, was brainwashed over the years with the blue pill fantasy of married life. When I think about it, most guys like him are utter powerless to think straight about it when all your life your parents, your relatives, your female friends, television, films, popular music, government, and your religious faith bangs you over the head with the advise that marriage is good and you should get married. Guys who are just not bright enough to logically and rationally think these social dupe games thru will fall for it each and every time. That's why I encourage him to actually get married so when he is financially and emotionally ass-raped, it will finally sink in for him.

@Contrarian Expatriate You still haven't answered my question. Have you been married before? I assume not, at this point. I could also assume that you haven't had a lot of fulfilling relationships. I read some of your old posts and all I could find was an Eastern European girl living in the US whom you basically paid regularly so she could have s*x with you once every few days. Hardly a win, in my book. Hardly something that screams quality in the kinds of women and the kinds of relationships you are looking for.

How old are you? You might have been burned in the past, in which case I might understand your reluctance with looking for good women who don't need/want to get paid to be with you.

But if you haven't and your experience, as it sounds more and more at every post, is solely based on a bunch of YT videos about Japanese men being duped and dumped, or horror stories about "divorce rape in court", then it's just as good as those of the people you routinely mock on this forum.

For one last time, I am not saying I will marry in a breeze. I am saying that women worth their salt will want some form of commitment. If they believe in marriage they will ask for it, if they don't they might be fine with living together under the same roof, with kids and all. The key element here is love and commitment, not marriage, which might or might not be there, as an expression of that commitment.

In the end, we are what we believe in. If you don't believe any beauty can be found in a relationship with a woman, even in a remote place like Philippines here, then trust me, you'll never find it and continue to be biased.