Really GOOD SEX!

[MrMan]

I'll comment from a well-rounded perspective and a bit more 'hedonic' perspective. I want my whole life to be pleasing to God. It is what I was made for, to please God. I also believe that is where I will find my fulfillment in life--in doing what I was made for. My theory is working based on my experience so far. I don't want to put myself in a situation where it is hard to please God, where either decision I make. I don't want to make a moral mess of my life where it is hard to get back on track. The sex stuff is a little further down.

For example, as a single man, if I'd had sex with a woman who'd made a terrible mother for my children. On the one hand, for ethics, it might be right if I'd married her at least if she were a virgin (and if not), since we'd become one flesh together (and something in the Old Testament) and I'd ruined/defiled her if I don't marry her or contributed toward that (love thy neighbor). On the other hand, she'd make a terrible mother for my children, and if she is not a believer, I should not marry her. I abstained from sexual relations before marriage. I Thessalonians 4 says God gets vengence/punishes those who commit fornication (addressing Christians also, a passage where God punishes Christians.)

I married a woman who loves God, who was always sharing her faith, doing stuff like praying for the guy the bus she was riding was on. The man wasn't breathing. She gets down there and prays for him. The bus driver looks nervous, afraid that crowd of people might beat him up if the injured has friends as might happen on the streets of Jakarta. She commands his spirit to come back into him in the name of Jesus. He starts breathing. The bus driver looks so relieved and the bus takes off. Just the kind of girl I wanted. And for looks, a top tier girl, that 9 or 10 range where I really pay attention. Sweetness. A virgin it turns out.

Someone told me they'd had a vision of my future wife. I prayed, and I saw a vision, and a couple of features of the woman really stood out and helped me realize she was the one I was to marry. I prayed all kinds of stuff. I don't know if God foreordains these details of life or not, so I prayed for him to for me, to pick one out for me and to send me one. I wanted to be married. I wanted to have sex for the sensation, release and emotional connection appeal. I wanted to be a father, though that wasn't driving me as much at the time. I was a hairy-- presumably testosterone laden dude in my 20's. I was alone over the holidays when people leave and stuff slows down and felt a bit lonely.

So I upped my prayers for a wife. I prayed all kind of stuff. I prayed for a virgin, and if the woman I knew was dating someone, gently break them up. (Boyfriend does not mean having sex over there, and it did not use to mean that in the US. Our sexual, dating and marriage culture is messed up.) I read about Isaac and Rebecca getting together and asked God to send an angel ahead of me to find my wife. I prayed all kinds of things. Some of it hit the nail on the head I found out later.

I finally met my wife (I'd seen/met her before, really). I didn't know this, but she sensed the Lord telling me I was the one. She talked to her friend who I was talking to. I introduced myself-- which meant she didn't have to strike up a conversation with a man she didn't know. She invites me to her Bible study. I give her my number I had a sense of it, but when I got home, I was praying about whether this was the woman I'd been praying for to be my wife.

We talk on the phone. I am praying and I think God may be answering my prayer in my spirit when I ask if this is my wife with a 'yes' and later 'yes... why don't you believe Me?' Uh-oh. Then in prayer I get some details about her, and she says it on the phone. Okay. Still, I learned how to pray, trust God for wisdom, make decisions, have peace about them and be with peace with God about them. Since I believed I was hearing God, I would like to have had a prophetic confirmation of that. I'd been around all kinds of prophecy of specific details of people's lives, gotten super-specific stuff like that about other people when I'd been flowing in that earlier in my life. But this seemed more a matter of learning to pray and trust God to give me wisdom.

So we date, 'just friends' at first we said, but it turns into me taking her out to dinner every night when the rupiah is so cheap, church meetings on weekends, some home groups, spending so much time together. We don't know each other's language well, but we have this strong 'connection', right from the get-go really. We belong together.

I was 100% sure about marrying her and had settled it with God in prayer--- and it was unshakeable, and I just knew it, and this was the right path. No cold feet for me. This is the end of a multi-week trip for her, and I pick her up. I think all these events are the same day, maybe over two days, as when this was settled in prayer. Then I get to church, and after the meeting the guest speaker calls the two of us up and prophesies about us stuff that implied we would be together long term, going to many places and ministering to many people. It has happened, but I think it will happen a lot more. I told her I was meeting with this man, an older guy from church about something-- an excuse not to eat with her and buy a ring. We did. I took her out some place nice, to a beautiful place, proposed, then a month later the real proposal, meeting her parents and getting their agreement (her dad's was important for me, Biblically.) Then extended family issues with their marriage rituals. Then marrying anyway even if that uncle couldn't plan the wedding. Taking her to see my parents.

Trigger warning for those with Victorian mores. I think young men can benefit from learning about good, righteous sex in marriage, and this is anonymous, so here goes. We were both virgins. I'd read up on sex. My philosophy was to give her multiple orgasms and wear her out. And we are supposed to render 'due benevolence' if not fasting, as much as the other one wants. That latter part is still my moral philosophy. Wear her out with multi-o's I think is the best unless the wife wants otherwise. Within however many days or weeks, we former virgins were there.

My point here is to point out the hedonic side to young men craving sex. It can be fulfilled in marriage, probably better than through sin. if it isn't, marriage is still better. There are all those God saw it and it was good. He made male and female-- the two individuals who can have sex with each other be fruitful and multiply. Making male and female is good. Them having sex is good. Having babies and filling the earth is good. It is good stuff. Therefore sex is good. it is morally good, in the right context. It is in marriage. So I will right about it as good.

Sexual pleasure is morally good... in the right context. And it should be fulfilled in a context that pleases God. And I have had plenty of it. I love sex. My wife loves sex after it starts. If she put it off or didn't want it and then decided to roll with it, after it's started you wouldn't know she didn't want it, and doesn't want it to stop. Sometimes I have to talk her into it or wait her out. But as newly weds, I had enough sexual release to satisfy what I thought was normal-- once a day or so. I thought married couples on average having sex two or three times a week is crazy low. Abstaining from periods has to be taken into account for that, but 20 or 21 times a month seemed-- and still does if you aren't too old or sick-- normal for me. For Biblical reasons (my understanding of Leviticus 18 plus Acts 15) we did not do intercourse during periods. We can decide to fast and abstain then. The part about mutual agreement on that hasn't sunk in deeply enough in my wife's understanding of scripture, IMO, but we learned to negotiate that out, and I can handle that better as I age.

But still lots of great sex. So as newly weds, I would try to keep things going as long as possible, go for a long time, wear her out. if she was exhausted, I'd coax her to take more. We'd have really long sessions. Maybe that's why she wasn't always as excited for the next day. I learned slow and gentle if I could help it to keep things from getting sore. She doesn't complain about very vigorous if warmed up, but I consciously save that for if the next day is very unlikely, if I think I know when her period would start or maybe if I were going to take a trip or something. Sex in marriage is good. I want to have as much of it as I reasonably can without interfering with other areas of our lives.

I realize when the 'due benevolence' issue is considered-- yes I think that is as much as the partner wants, giving in love. I also realize people can have health, emotional, soreness-from-too-much, etc. issues. My wife doesn't quite get this understanding of 'due benevolence' and sometimes doesn't feel like it. I don't get what 'in the mood' should have to do with it. Normal mood is fine for me. She doesn't say 'in the mood'-- I hate that phrase anyway. But a woman might need to be warmed up with emotional connection, talking, kindness, and then kind of 'trick her' by showing her enough affection or verbal teasing over time until she decides she is the one who wants it. There can still be some 'game' to it. For us though, it's more 'let's do it' now, plop down on the bed, and get to it. I want to have sex if we aren't fasting and she's not on her period, emotionally. I don't feel like I ___have to____ have it physically down below like I did in my 20's if I missed so many days or hours or whatever.

I do wish my wife had the same understanding of 'due benevolence' I do. It is more extreme that most people think, I realize. She would have been probably overloaded and exhausted physically and emotionally throughout our marriage, maybe, or it might have turned out better. She'd have had to make all kinds of work a low priority, and emotionally that is tough for her. Jesus was willing to die for the church. I have to be willing to sacrifice for her. I have a higher drive. she has physical limitations as a human being and a woman. She's probably done very well overall when compared to marriage sexual frequency stats-- which I do not care for because they are so low. At this point it is not generally a me-not-getting-enough-physically issue, since I love the feelings but just want more of that experience with the loving connection. We did the more common understanding of meet in the middle. It turns into an emotional fulfillment issue as you age.

Physically, with aging, I don't feel like I 'need' sex every night physically, but I am down for it. I did not need it to perform, but I had gotten to the point where she had to 'kiss me first' or hug or or caress sometimes. instead of going at 'let's do it', I wasn't always 'ready for action.' At least if I thought about the night before or what was going to happen later, I wasn't have something in my pants to hide while walking around at this point in my life. It wasn't like in middle or high school where something could spring up with no mental stimuli, even, in class. That's rare in middle age. But I could go every night. Since I wasn't ready at the drop of a hat-- before the hat dropped, down there, I let a doctor give me a testosterone shot when he said my T and vitamin D was low. I thought it might make me chase my wife more, be ready without any kissing or whatever, and hopefully lose weight. I don't think it helped. I heard it can shrink stuff. Probably little more interest in sex, but that was there already.

For the hedonistic perspective I'm talking about, you young men who just want sex, think morals, ethics, and long term. I don't know about everyone, but sensitivity drops down. Parts where you feel the sensitivity in the part become way less sensitive. You may get to the point where being 'played with' after it is over for you as a fun game isn't even almost-painfully as sensitive any more. That general feeling that sex feels good is still there, and it can still feel good. But there is this emotional connection with sex, which is probably what I am really craving to have so frequently with my wife, that is strong and overpowering.

The physical sensations are so intense when you are younger, you may not pay as much attention to the emotional bonding. But with a wife who loves you, and this affection-love is going back and forth during the sex-- how in the world is a man supposed to enjoy that sinning with a prostitute? I understand immoral versions of that are probably there with LTRs, long-term fornication, even adultery. Other sinful sex situations might induce such feelings. But I don't think these short-term LTRs are going to have that same connection, or the same benefit from it, that you will get with a wife you rightly marry, in a just way. You get her hand in marriage from her father. She is not bound to another man nor you to another woman. You commit for wife. You take responsibility to care for her and provide for her. You love her. She obeys you and submits to you. That's the right order. For Christians, two becoming one flesh is a mystery that relates to the relationship between Christ and the church. I might even say there might be something mystical about righteous married sex, certainly between redeemed believers in Christ. It's a physical act, an emotional act. But it is good. It is morally good. A morally good thing to do, while also having hedonic pleasure, fully enjoying each other's bodies, and whatever of your wife's soul and she yours, while your bodies are entwined.

And I just had sex or I am going to with a clean conscience. I can have ___sex___ without sinning against God. Not just that, but it was good. I was doing right by God by giving it good to my wife. She is doing right by God when she was satisfying my sexual urges. Those emotions, that connection that binds us together where we can feel that love from each other that feels so nurturing, almost intoxicating....that is good. It is morally good. Nothing sleazy, just GOOD SEX. Morally good sex. It would be wrong not to give it to her, and it would be unethical not to give it to her good if I can and decide not to. I was doing right by God by getting her pregnant back when we were young and having babies.

And the wife intentionally doing stuff to really make her husband enjoy it physically, and the man doing the same to her-- multiple orgasms and... and intercourse stuff that's too graphic and fun that I am not going to post about... it is all morally good. No babies running around without parents. I am not going to have that knock on my door saying, "Your my dad, and I grew up and you did not raise me" or if I did, it's a lie and I know it.

Celibacy for God may be better. The one who does this is _sacrificing something big__ in life to please the Lord. May God bless them. May the saints who do this have their reward. We each have our gift, 'one after this manner, another after that. Life-long celibates can be celibate because God gave them the ability. Not having sex with a woman while using porn to think lustful thoughts, peeking at bikini women to desire them and never having sex with a woman, but wanting to is not a higher path.

I've talked a lot about the sex part. There is so much emotional fulfillment to having someone else in your life. If you are cut out for marriage, there are spiritual benefits as well for believers being married. Life is fuller. I cannot say when the last time I felt lonely was since I married, maybe when she had to be away for a while, I might have felt it briefly. We have kids. There is always something going on because there is someone else-- other people. Life is not boring. You can't or shouldn't be lazy in a family. Laziness is immoral anyway. Doing productive stuff is morally good and makes you a better person. Marriage isn't that tiring. Maybe just a bit for a traditional wife who does all the cooking or the man who takes on more work responsibility to support two, but with modern conveniences, it comes with fun, companionship and sex. When the diapers and sleepless nights come along, there are sacrifices for this valuable human being.

These are my thoughts, mainly about sex, from a man with a high sex drive who loves sex, who abstained before marriage whose wife was a virgin. I have had a life with lots of great sex, probably much more than the average. The first two years + of newly wed sex were way over on the right end of the bell curve for frequency for us, I think. And ongoing sex, and sex into middle age. Good sex, morally good sex. Trying to do sex in a way that pleases God, a way that fits overall into the 'good' big picture.

No one-off sex experiences with a prostitute or a girl you meet one night at a bar. No, good, moral sex done to the best of your ability, an expression of wisdom and love, as good as you can give her, over and over again, for a while lifetime until one of you dies as long as you are able, full of love and unity-- in a good marriage, joined rightly, and all morally good and pleasing to God.

I'd like to throw a mention of@@Tsar out there because he is single.

[WilliamSmith]

@MrMan
@Outcast9428
and whoever else on here counts as tradpill types (is there a list?):
You guys should adapt the methods that the ladies' men use to score with women to help your traditionalist brethren find wives for monogamous marriage. (Or at least empower them to be able to get wives.)

MrMan had some good basic suggestions for looking for referrals for women through what more or less amounts to a social circle (what PUA/seducer types call social circle "game," but you don't need to think of it as "game," as though sincerity is precluded).

Some men I know (and/or know of) who aren't bad or lacking in non-religious morals and ethics (for example they're good fathers and not mean to women, even if not religious) yet aren't big believers in monogamy have a pretty good refined system for scoring with women fairly quickly, getting the women on dates via any or possibly several of day/night/online or social circle draws, then escalating quickly with a list of various do's and do-not's. But some of these are actually on the hunt for a wife or serious relationship partner, so they follow a sort of "cream of the crop" model of being highly efficient on scoring the women, then selecting the best to get serious with. But you could do that even without the premarital sex that the religious types sometimes don't like (though they vary in their views even if religious).

I'm leaving for about a week and a half, but have been refining the potentially good systems that have worked for better turnover, but before everyone starts yelling at me for degeneracy, my point here is that this would all work for tradpills who want a monogamous marriage too.
Also I'd politely avoid religious women if possible (and in theory they'd avoid me, though in practice, hmmm), whereas you'd have added advantage provided you didn't blow it with an obvious blunder like bitching about politics or religious stuff you don't like on a 1st date. And those women who'd be a good match for you would be culturally conditioned to be far less likely to give it up to misc womanizers than non-religious women would be, I'd imagine.

But I noticed some tradpill types (not MrMan) going bananas and implying silly womanizing skirt-chasers are supposedly ruining the women and making it so they can't get a girlfriend, which is complete nonsense and makes no sense, so you could help them so they were no longer under such delusions.

Just a thought.

But anyway, my bumping the thread here will get MrMan's good thread back in view FBO tradpill types who are still clueless about women's orgasm and sex (something which he and @Outcast9428 are both refreshingly redpilled about).

MrMan speaking with wisdom here to the tradpill flock:

Trigger warning for those with Victorian mores. I think young men can benefit from learning about good, righteous sex in marriage, and this is anonymous, so here goes. We were both virgins. I'd read up on sex. My philosophy was to give her multiple orgasms and wear her out. And we are supposed to render 'due benevolence' if not fasting, as much as the other one wants. That latter part is still my moral philosophy. Wear her out with multi-o's I think is the best unless the wife wants otherwise. Within however many days or weeks, we former virgins were there.

My point here is to point out the hedonic side to young men craving sex. It can be fulfilled in marriage, probably better than through sin. if it isn't, marriage is still better. There are all those God saw it and it was good. He made male and female-- the two individuals who can have sex with each other be fruitful and multiply. Making male and female is good. Them having sex is good. Having babies and filling the earth is good. It is good stuff. Therefore sex is good. it is morally good, in the right context. It is in marriage. So I will right about it as good.

Sexual pleasure is morally good... in the right context. And it should be fulfilled in a context that pleases God. And I have had plenty of it. I love sex. My wife loves sex after it starts. If she put it off or didn't want it and then decided to roll with it, after it's started you wouldn't know she didn't want it, and doesn't want it to stop. Sometimes I have to talk her into it or wait her out. But as newly weds, I had enough sexual release to satisfy what I thought was normal-- once a day or so. I thought married couples on average having sex two or three times a week is crazy low. Abstaining from periods has to be taken into account for that, but 20 or 21 times a month seemed-- and still does if you aren't too old or sick-- normal for me. For Biblical reasons (my understanding of Leviticus 18 plus Acts 15) we did not do intercourse during periods. We can decide to fast and abstain then. The part about mutual agreement on that hasn't sunk in deeply enough in my wife's understanding of scripture, IMO, but we learned to negotiate that out, and I can handle that better as I age.

But still lots of great sex. So as newly weds, I would try to keep things going as long as possible, go for a long time, wear her out. if she was exhausted, I'd coax her to take more. We'd have really long sessions. Maybe that's why she wasn't always as excited for the next day. I learned slow and gentle if I could help it to keep things from getting sore. She doesn't complain about very vigorous if warmed up, but I consciously save that for if the next day is very unlikely, if I think I know when her period would start or maybe if I were going to take a trip or something. Sex in marriage is good. I want to have as much of it as I reasonably can without interfering with other areas of our lives.

I'd like to throw a mention of@@Tsar out there because he is single.

Unfortunately ending on a downer, I guess Tsar got banned, which royally sucks, but there's an appeal thread for him here if any of you want to put in a good word for him:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46256&p=378000#p378000

[Lucas88]

My philosophy was to give her multiple orgasms and wear her out.

That was always my philosophy too with my Peruvian ex-girlfriend who was my first long-term girlfriend: last as long as possible, give her multiple orgasms and wear her out to the point where she could no longer continue.

Sometimes I'd wear her out and she'd tell me that she was tired but I'd urge her to keep going a little longer because I wanted her to develop more stamina and benefit more from the exercise (kinda like adding a little more weight to the bar with each gym session). It also made me appear more macho to her since Latinas love a man who can take charge and be a good leader.

The best thing is to focus on the lady's pleasure and make her enjoy it as much as possible.

[WilliamSmith]

My philosophy was to give her multiple orgasms and wear her out.

That was always my philosophy too with my Peruvian ex-girlfriend who was my first long-term girlfriend: last as long as possible, give her multiple orgasms and wear her out to the point where she could no longer continue.

Sometimes I'd wear her out and she'd tell me that she was tired but I'd urge her to keep going a little longer because I wanted her to develop more stamina and benefit more from the exercise (kinda like adding a little more weight to the bar with each gym session). It also made me appear more macho to her since Latinas love a man who can take charge and be a good leader.

The best thing is to focus on the lady's pleasure and make her enjoy it as much as possible.

@Lucas88
Yeah, that's the spirit!
For all those tradpill types, but also some of the retro alphas, who are all obsessed with laying down the law and trying to get women to do whatever they want, I'd bet my $$ that they'd get better results if they focused on giving the women hours of body-shaking multiple orgasms (rather than, for instance, lecturing them angrily about traditional values under theoretic whitewashed periods of medieval European history, and/or trying to make an ultimatum that the chicks aren't allowed to use their smartphones or whatever).

[Cornfed]

I'd bet my $$ that they'd get better results if they focused on giving the women hours of body-shaking multiple orgasms

This is largely what it has come to. Men are reduced to performers trying to entertain and amuse females and paying for the privilege.

[Outcast9428]

My philosophy was to give her multiple orgasms and wear her out.

That was always my philosophy too with my Peruvian ex-girlfriend who was my first long-term girlfriend: last as long as possible, give her multiple orgasms and wear her out to the point where she could no longer continue.

Sometimes I'd wear her out and she'd tell me that she was tired but I'd urge her to keep going a little longer because I wanted her to develop more stamina and benefit more from the exercise (kinda like adding a little more weight to the bar with each gym session). It also made me appear more macho to her since Latinas love a man who can take charge and be a good leader.

The best thing is to focus on the lady's pleasure and make her enjoy it as much as possible.

@Lucas88
Yeah, that's the spirit!
For all those tradpill types, but also some of the retro alphas, who are all obsessed with laying down the law and trying to get women to do whatever they want, I'd bet my $$ that they'd get better results if they focused on giving the women hours of body-shaking multiple orgasms (rather than, for instance, lecturing them angrily about traditional values under theoretic whitewashed periods of medieval European history, and/or trying to make an ultimatum that the chicks aren't allowed to use their smartphones or whatever).

I do believe men should try to please their wives in the bedroom. However, I think anyone who thinks women will follow the rules/laws because he consistently gives her orgasms is being naive. I'm sure it reduces the likelihood but women's nature is inherently chaotic. Even if they have a good thing going, a lot of women will attempt to change things just for the sake of changing things. The 1950s for example was practically a paradise, and even reading The Feminine Mystique which kicked off feminism, Betty Friedan could not come up with a legitimate justification in her book for why things really needed to change. I could summarize the entire book with "men solved every problem we could possibly have so now we're bored." A lot of women will self-destruct just for the sake of feeling the wind blow in a different direction.

The reason for the "angry lectures" is because women need to be taught to resist their auto-destructive nature and not to empower auto-destructive behavior in other women. That's why traditionalists are so strict about women's behavior because women have strong tendencies towards irrational auto-destruction. I've seen it happen myself, with girls who are shockingly young. I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this. Some women just seem to have this irrational desire to destroy and inflict pain and suffering on themselves. Its why masochistic fetishes are so common among women. Traditionalists have been trying to fight this aspect of female nature for centuries. Its why we don't want women to have power and freedom because too many of them will use their power and freedom to unleash these auto-destructive tendencies onto not only themselves, but men and even all of civilization. All you need to know what I'm saying is true is look at left-wing societies. Look at left-wing ideology in general. Its a deeply feminine ideology and everything it advocates for is essentially cultural/national suicide.

Marriages, families, and civilization itself are held up by pillars. You can't hold them up anymore though when one of the pillars decides to destroy itself. If that happens, it doesn't matter if all the other pillars work, the one pillar that didn't want to do its job anymore will bring the whole thing crashing to the ground.

[WilliamSmith]

I do believe men should try to please their wives in the bedroom. However, I think anyone who thinks women will follow the rules/laws because he consistently gives her orgasms is being naive.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree big time! I only said that giving women hours of massive orgasms on a regular basis was probably a better bet (i.e. comparatively) for men who are obsessed with trying to get women to do whatever they want, compared with the almost 100% utterly futile exercise in self-frustration and guy-drama some of them have about wanting to lay down the law to her too much (especially when she's also sexually frustrated), a pretty sure way to get women to break every rule such a man comes up with.
(My personal solution to this frustrating problem, as I've mentioned elsewhere, is to not drive myself nuts trying to make women do whatever I want them to do, rather than trying to gain their affection and "influence" in a more direct honest way by trying to make them actually like me, but yeah I do agree that for more authoritarian traditionalists even giving them massive orgasms isn't going to guarantee they won't break most or all the tradpill rules. )

I'm sure it reduces the likelihood but women's nature is inherently chaotic. Even if they have a good thing going, a lot of women will attempt to change things just for the sake of changing things. The 1950s for example was practically a paradise, and even reading The Feminine Mystique which kicked off feminism, Betty Friedan could not come up with a legitimate justification in her book for why things really needed to change. I could summarize the entire book with "men solved every problem we could possibly have so now we're bored." A lot of women will self-destruct just for the sake of feeling the wind blow in a different direction.

The reason for the "angry lectures" is because women need to be taught to resist their auto-destructive nature and not to empower auto-destructive behavior in other women. That's why traditionalists are so strict about women's behavior because women have strong tendencies towards irrational auto-destruction. I've seen it happen myself, with girls who are shockingly young. I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this. Some women just seem to have this irrational desire to destroy and inflict pain and suffering on themselves. Its why masochistic fetishes are so common among women. Traditionalists have been trying to fight this aspect of female nature for centuries. Its why we don't want women to have power and freedom because too many of them will use their power and freedom to unleash these auto-destructive tendencies onto not only themselves, but men and even all of civilization. All you need to know what I'm saying is true is look at left-wing societies. Look at left-wing ideology in general. Its a deeply feminine ideology and everything it advocates for is essentially cultural/national suicide.

Marriages, families, and civilization itself are held up by pillars. You can't hold them up anymore though when one of the pillars decides to destroy itself. If that happens, it doesn't matter if all the other pillars work, the one pillar that didn't want to do its job anymore will bring the whole thing crashing to the ground.

That was really interesting stuff there, even though I'm a long way from tradpill myself, and am not convinced that women's nature is "inherently chaotic" even though it is VERY biologically different from men's and affects the whole way their minds work differently, one of my favorite subjects actually.

But observation: Quoting completely mentally twisted female jews like Friedan and then extrapolating that their warped twisted ideas somehow extrapolate and apply to all women (as opposed to just twisted mutant female jews, and secondarily any one else who gets directly involved in their twisted "movements" they've subverted and made their own, like 2nd+ wave "feminism") is a big stretch.
No argument their jewish "intellectual movements" are usually prime causes of destruction of any society catastrophically suicidally naive enough to let a substantial infestation of jews into it, but I don't think women have inherent tendencies to be chaotic or subversive in remotely close to the same way as the biologic jews and slough of both perverted evil religious ideas and secular "isms" they come up with...

Another thing is that most women flat-out prefer strong men to be leaders a lot of times, a phenomenon where not only are right-wing leaders and nationalists and so on wildly popular with women, but also sometimes causes even modern studies to come up with some humorously un-PC results even in the West (e.g. tons of women strongly preferring a male manager in a business environment). I'm sort of open-minded on that kind of thing (e.g. female leaders or managers, though I'm ardently into self-employment and solo stuff), but it was the women's responses indicating they actually preferred male leadership a lot of times. (I'll try to come back and cite these next time I'm on here to substantiate and provide some examples, I recently read some and should be able to dig them up...)
But strong men and classic alpha male heart-throbs and so on where women actually prefer to take a supporting role for and let the men lead, aren't the same as a bunch of control-freak incels (not saying that describes you since I think you have much more merit yourself, but it does describe some of them whose writing I've noticed), or waddling hook-nosed yarmulke wearing religious priestcrafts who have no credibility on being actual religious/spiritual "authorities," and are always infamously exploiting their role as a perceived authority to sexually abuse children and women, among other crimes and abuses of power they've engaged in throughout history (and still are bigtime)... Another can of worms for another time perhaps.

One thing's for sure, this is an interesting discussion.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

My philosophy was to give her multiple orgasms and wear her out.

That was always my philosophy too with my Peruvian ex-girlfriend who was my first long-term girlfriend: last as long as possible, give her multiple orgasms and wear her out to the point where she could no longer continue.

Sometimes I'd wear her out and she'd tell me that she was tired but I'd urge her to keep going a little longer because I wanted her to develop more stamina and benefit more from the exercise (kinda like adding a little more weight to the bar with each gym session). It also made me appear more macho to her since Latinas love a man who can take charge and be a good leader.

The best thing is to focus on the lady's pleasure and make her enjoy it as much as possible.

@Lucas88
Yeah, that's the spirit!
For all those tradpill types, but also some of the retro alphas, who are all obsessed with laying down the law and trying to get women to do whatever they want, I'd bet my $$ that they'd get better results if they focused on giving the women hours of body-shaking multiple orgasms (rather than, for instance, lecturing them angrily about traditional values under theoretic whitewashed periods of medieval European history, and/or trying to make an ultimatum that the chicks aren't allowed to use their smartphones or whatever).

@Lucas88 did all this all the while bumpin' Chris Brown's "Fck You Right Back To Sleep Gurrrrl"

[Outcast9428]

I do believe men should try to please their wives in the bedroom. However, I think anyone who thinks women will follow the rules/laws because he consistently gives her orgasms is being naive.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree big time! I only said that giving women hours of massive orgasms on a regular basis was probably a better bet (i.e. comparatively) for men who are obsessed with trying to get women to do whatever they want, compared with the almost 100% utterly futile exercise in self-frustration and guy-drama some of them have about wanting to lay down the law to her too much (especially when she's also sexually frustrated), a pretty sure way to get women to break every rule such a man comes up with.
(My personal solution to this frustrating problem, as I've mentioned elsewhere, is to not drive myself nuts trying to make women do whatever I want them to do, rather than trying to gain their affection and "influence" in a more direct honest way by trying to make them actually like me, but yeah I do agree that for more authoritarian traditionalists even giving them massive orgasms isn't going to guarantee they won't break most or all the tradpill rules. )

I'm sure it reduces the likelihood but women's nature is inherently chaotic. Even if they have a good thing going, a lot of women will attempt to change things just for the sake of changing things. The 1950s for example was practically a paradise, and even reading The Feminine Mystique which kicked off feminism, Betty Friedan could not come up with a legitimate justification in her book for why things really needed to change. I could summarize the entire book with "men solved every problem we could possibly have so now we're bored." A lot of women will self-destruct just for the sake of feeling the wind blow in a different direction.

The reason for the "angry lectures" is because women need to be taught to resist their auto-destructive nature and not to empower auto-destructive behavior in other women. That's why traditionalists are so strict about women's behavior because women have strong tendencies towards irrational auto-destruction. I've seen it happen myself, with girls who are shockingly young. I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this. Some women just seem to have this irrational desire to destroy and inflict pain and suffering on themselves. Its why masochistic fetishes are so common among women. Traditionalists have been trying to fight this aspect of female nature for centuries. Its why we don't want women to have power and freedom because too many of them will use their power and freedom to unleash these auto-destructive tendencies onto not only themselves, but men and even all of civilization. All you need to know what I'm saying is true is look at left-wing societies. Look at left-wing ideology in general. Its a deeply feminine ideology and everything it advocates for is essentially cultural/national suicide.

Marriages, families, and civilization itself are held up by pillars. You can't hold them up anymore though when one of the pillars decides to destroy itself. If that happens, it doesn't matter if all the other pillars work, the one pillar that didn't want to do its job anymore will bring the whole thing crashing to the ground.

That was really interesting stuff there, even though I'm a long way from tradpill myself, and am not convinced that women's nature is "inherently chaotic" even though it is VERY biologically different from men's and affects the whole way their minds work differently, one of my favorite subjects actually.

But observation: Quoting completely mentally twisted female jews like Friedan and then extrapolating that their warped twisted ideas somehow extrapolate and apply to all women (as opposed to just twisted mutant female jews, and secondarily any one else who gets directly involved in their twisted "movements" they've subverted and made their own, like 2nd+ wave "feminism") is a big stretch.
No argument their jewish "intellectual movements" are usually prime causes of destruction of any society catastrophically suicidally naive enough to let a substantial infestation of jews into it, but I don't think women have inherent tendencies to be chaotic or subversive in remotely close to the same way as the biologic jews and slough of both perverted evil religious ideas and secular "isms" they come up with...

Another thing is that most women flat-out prefer strong men to be leaders a lot of times, a phenomenon where not only are right-wing leaders and nationalists and so on wildly popular with women, but also sometimes causes even modern studies to come up with some humorously un-PC results even in the West (e.g. tons of women strongly preferring a male manager in a business environment). I'm sort of open-minded on that kind of thing (e.g. female leaders or managers, though I'm ardently into self-employment and solo stuff), but it was the women's responses indicating they actually preferred male leadership a lot of times. (I'll try to come back and cite these next time I'm on here to substantiate and provide some examples, I recently read some and should be able to dig them up...)
But strong men and classic alpha male heart-throbs and so on where women actually prefer to take a supporting role for and let the men lead, aren't the same as a bunch of control-freak incels (not saying that describes you since I think you have much more merit yourself, but it does describe some of them whose writing I've noticed), or waddling hook-nosed yarmulke wearing religious priestcrafts who have no credibility on being actual religious/spiritual "authorities," and are always infamously exploiting their role as a perceived authority to sexually abuse children and women, among other crimes and abuses of power they've engaged in throughout history (and still are bigtime)... Another can of worms for another time perhaps.

One thing's for sure, this is an interesting discussion.

I think Jews have set all the fires but white people threw gasoline on it. White people were just too eager to embrace every poison the Jews introduced us to for me to say it’s all their fault. None of the girls I knew who went down this auto-destructive, masochistic route were Jews. Were they influenced by them indirectly? I’m sure. But there is something in the female instinct that seems to take them down that path.

A lot of the rules of traditionalism are done to mitigate this nature. Putting a lot of decision making over girls’ boyfriends and husbands for example was so that girls wouldn’t end up with violently abusive guys. A lot of girls have a bad radar for that type of guy and will date guys like that or refuse to leave them even when everybody begs them to.

I’ve known two girls like that from high school and I know for a fact that it was related to masochistic fetishes. I’ve heard of several other girls who did stuff like this. I think if a girl dates one guy who happened to be abusive but left him herself that it can be chalked up to a mistake but girls who repeatedly date abusive partners have something deeper going on. A lot of the rules traditionally placed on women are intended to prevent these fetishes from forming in the first place or prevent them from causing as much damage if they are there.

Think about the rule about virginity for example. A girl can’t develop a fetish if she doesn’t even know it exists. If a girl has one partner her whole life then there’s no guy who can introduce her to or get her hooked on sick/degrading fetishes. If the parent makes the guy go through their approval then parents generally have a better radar for sketchy guys then young girls do.

[MrMan]

I'd bet my $$ that they'd get better results if they focused on giving the women hours of body-shaking multiple orgasms

This is largely what it has come to. Men are reduced to performers trying to entertain and amuse females and paying for the privilege.

It's fun. And it's more fun if the whole thing lasts a while, as opposed to a couple of minutes.

[MrMan]

I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this.

I can't say for sure, but watching porn could start a woman down the path of creepy fetishes, violence, etc., in line with what you posted about porn-viewing statistics in the past. Then, she starts hanging out with people with creepy fetishes, tries the drugs, etc. Not sure if that is her story, but people who seem like they come from normal families could be watching some very nasty porn and thinking some really nasty things these days.

[Outcast9428]

I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this.

I can't say for sure, but watching porn could start a woman down the path of creepy fetishes, violence, etc., in line with what you posted about porn-viewing statistics in the past. Then, she starts hanging out with people with creepy fetishes, tries the drugs, etc. Not sure if that is her story, but people who seem like they come from normal families could be watching some very nasty porn and thinking some really nasty things these days.

I agree with that, I think porn has made these things way more common among both guys and girls then they used to be. Even in the 90s, only about 35% of girls seemed to have masochistic fantasies whereas now it’s gone up to 65%.

Still the fact that 35% still had them in an era where girls didn’t really look at porn much is really concerning. It’s not a majority population of course but it’s a disturbingly large minority. I think 35% is probably how many girls get that stuff without being influenced one way or another, 65% is with everybody in society becoming porn sick. If society actively tries to suppress it I think we could get the percentage lower then 35% though. I would imagine this stuff was really uncommon in the 1950s.

[WilliamSmith]

I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this.

I can't say for sure, but watching porn could start a woman down the path of creepy fetishes, violence, etc., in line with what you posted about porn-viewing statistics in the past. Then, she starts hanging out with people with creepy fetishes, tries the drugs, etc. Not sure if that is her story, but people who seem like they come from normal families could be watching some very nasty porn and thinking some really nasty things these days.

I agree with that, I think porn has made these things way more common among both guys and girls then they used to be. Even in the 90s, only about 35% of girls seemed to have masochistic fantasies whereas now it’s gone up to 65%.

Still the fact that 35% still had them in an era where girls didn’t really look at porn much is really concerning. It’s not a majority population of course but it’s a disturbingly large minority. I think 35% is probably how many girls get that stuff without being influenced one way or another, 65% is with everybody in society becoming porn sick. If society actively tries to suppress it I think we could get the percentage lower then 35% though. I would imagine this stuff was really uncommon in the 1950s.

@MrMan
@Outcast9428

Yeah I think you guys are right about the porn thing causing any dormant tendencies toward self-destructive fetishism to balloon into a bigger problem, and also to get people who wouldn't ordinarily get into fetishistic crap into it.

Even before porn was so widespread and mainstreamed from the jews at internet conglomerates like pornhub deliberately pushing it into the view even of underage children and then boasting about it on social media, I noticed when I was a kid and young teen (pre-internet) that quite a few of the girls were really into reading non-pornographic true crime and slasher flick stuff and would also be into weird stuff sometimes mingling erotic elements, so mainstreaming extreme porn has probably caused this fascination quite a few of them have with "the dark side" to grow into something worse.

Most of the bodice ripper romance genre novels I like reading so much because they're pretty much nonstop women's primal sexual fantasy material are perfectly healthy and just have some bold and adventurous swashbuckling stud, where there's some clash of wills between him and the brave adventurous heroine at first, but then this escalates from him just banging her or clashing with her into a deeper romantic bond of some sort by the end.

So that's perfectly healthy women's guy/girl action fantasies there, but then there's subsets of the genre where chicks are getting off on themes where the hero is outright evil and is sometimes a vampire or evil spirit or worse.

I still don't see that as somehow being a core part of all women's internal inclinations anymore than masculine men all having ayn inherent inclination toward sadism (even if we like healthy non-sadist macho stuff like fighting), but for sure it is a known thing many have, and a deluge of extreme porn would make it worse.

Outright schizophrenic pervs like Betty Friedan and the other mentally twisted 2nd+ wave feminists are in a different class though, and that fixation they have on subversion and inversion of everyone else's fundamental values is not something I see inherent to all women at all.

[Outcast9428]

I know a girl who came from a good family, wasn't abused at all, had nice siblings, good friends in high school. As soon as she graduated high school and had freedom though, she runs off and gets addicted to cocaine and other hard drugs, she has been dating a violently abusive man for about two years now who she refuses to leave even though her mom has begged her to. Her and this man were literally homeless on the streets for months, doing cocaine together and God knows what else. She almost OD'ed one night and her "new friends" rolled her out of the car while she was passed out, onto the front step of the hospital and drove off. I knew a guy who dated her in high school and she had incredibly creepy fetishes. She would ask him to beat her up, pretend to rape her, choke her, all sorts of nasty stuff. He said he gave in at first with the spanking and slapping but that her requests only got more and more extreme and that he didn't feel comfortable doing it anymore.

There is no reasonable explanation for why she does this.

I can't say for sure, but watching porn could start a woman down the path of creepy fetishes, violence, etc., in line with what you posted about porn-viewing statistics in the past. Then, she starts hanging out with people with creepy fetishes, tries the drugs, etc. Not sure if that is her story, but people who seem like they come from normal families could be watching some very nasty porn and thinking some really nasty things these days.

I agree with that, I think porn has made these things way more common among both guys and girls then they used to be. Even in the 90s, only about 35% of girls seemed to have masochistic fantasies whereas now it’s gone up to 65%.

Still the fact that 35% still had them in an era where girls didn’t really look at porn much is really concerning. It’s not a majority population of course but it’s a disturbingly large minority. I think 35% is probably how many girls get that stuff without being influenced one way or another, 65% is with everybody in society becoming porn sick. If society actively tries to suppress it I think we could get the percentage lower then 35% though. I would imagine this stuff was really uncommon in the 1950s.

@MrMan
@Outcast9428

Yeah I think you guys are right about the porn thing causing any dormant tendencies toward self-destructive fetishism to balloon into a bigger problem, and also to get people who wouldn't ordinarily get into fetishistic crap into it.

Even before porn was so widespread and mainstreamed from the jews at internet conglomerates like pornhub deliberately pushing it into the view even of underage children and then boasting about it on social media, I noticed when I was a kid and young teen (pre-internet) that quite a few of the girls were really into reading non-pornographic true crime and slasher flick stuff and would also be into weird stuff sometimes mingling erotic elements, so mainstreaming extreme porn has probably caused this fascination quite a few of them have with "the dark side" to grow into something worse.

Most of the bodice ripper romance genre novels I like reading so much because they're pretty much nonstop women's primal sexual fantasy material are perfectly healthy and just have some bold and adventurous swashbuckling stud, where there's some clash of wills between him and the brave adventurous heroine at first, but then this escalates from him just banging her or clashing with her into a deeper romantic bond of some sort by the end.

So that's perfectly healthy women's guy/girl action fantasies there, but then there's subsets of the genre where chicks are getting off on themes where the hero is outright evil and is sometimes a vampire or evil spirit or worse.

I still don't see that as somehow being a core part of all women's internal inclinations anymore than masculine men all having ayn inherent inclination toward sadism (even if we like healthy non-sadist macho stuff like fighting), but for sure it is a known thing many have, and a deluge of extreme porn would make it worse.

Outright schizophrenic pervs like Betty Friedan and the other mentally twisted 2nd+ wave feminists are in a different class though, and that fixation they have on subversion and inversion of everyone else's fundamental values is not something I see inherent to all women at all.

I agree it’s not “all women.” Perhaps saying it’s inherent to their nature sounds too broad and generalizing. I guess I would say it’s a strong and concerning tendency that you see with them. It’s common enough to be a serious issue. There are studies that show that these fetishes are significantly more common among women who repeatedly date violently abusive partners. That’s why I’m a bit prying about a girl’s sexual history. It’s not really virginity that concerns me so much as “what type of guys did she previously date? How long was she with them? How bad was the guy?”

If she has one abusive partner who managed to kind of hide it or there was nuance I could believe it’s a mistake. But if the guy was really bad and she still didn’t leave him for a long time that would make me suspicious.

I think I’m just as hardcore about the anti-fetishism, anti-bdsm stuff as some traditionalists are about virgin girls. For me I hate the masochism stuff so much I don’t want a wife who has a single drop of it in her system.