Prehistoric Ancestral Populations

[Lucas88]

Modern European populations are the result of intermixing between three main prehistoric ancestral populations: Western Hunter-Gatherers, Anatolian Farmers, and Yamnaya Steppe Pastoralists.

Western Hunter-Gatherers

WHGs are the earliest known inhabitants of Europe. They are believed to have entered the continent around 45,000 years ago and relied on hunting wild game, fishing and foraging for subsistence. These groups left behind a rich archeological record, including cave paintings and figurines.

WHGs had a curious phenotype. Genetic analysis shows that they had genes for dark skin but at the same time blue eyes. They also seem to have been more robust than modern Europeans.













Donna del Caviglione (aka Lady of Cavillon) represented above measured 6'2" and was a statuesque Amazon of a woman. She is believed to have lived 24,000 years ago.




The above is Pataud Woman, found in Aquitaine in the southwest of France. She is believed to have lived 17,000 years ago.


Anatolian Farmers

AFs entered Europe from the Middle East via the Anatolian Peninsula some 8,000-9,000 years ago. As their name suggests, they brought with them agriculture, crops such as wheat and barley, and domesticated animals such as sheep and goats.

AFs had a phenotype which we today might consider Mediterranean or Southern European. They were slighter than other prehistoric ancestral populations in Europe, had lighter skin relative to the indigenous Western Hunter-Gatherers (mostly an olive skin complexion), and had brown eyes. The AF genetic component is the most prominent in Southern European populations such as Greeks, Albanians, Sardinians, and various types of Italians.

These AFs quickly outnumbered and intermixed with the indigenous Western Hunter-Gatherer populations and spread their sedentary agricultural lifestyle throughout most of Europe. The hybrid population which would result from this was the Early European Farmers (EEF). However, due to numerical superiority, the AF component would be dominant.

Anatolian Farmer woman found in Gibraltar in the Iberian Peninsula:




Early European Farmer (hybrid) woman found in Ballynahatty, Northern Ireland:




Yamnaya Steppe Pastoralists

Yamnayas were a subgroup of Indo-Europeans or "Aryans" who entered Europe from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe some 4,000-5,000 years ago. They were pastoralists and skilled horsemen who had domesticated Central Asian horses and even developed chariots. Some interpretations depict them as fierce and unparalleled warriors and describe their entry into Europe as an incredibly barbaric event. However, much about the Yamnaya people is still open to debate.

Contrary to popular belief, the original Yamnayas weren't light-skinned or blond-haired. They tended to have darker or intermediate skin tone and brown eyes, possibly resembling modern Northern Indians. The genes for light skin and blond hair might have entered the Yamnaya people at a later stage of their development through intermixing with Ancient North Eurasians (ANE) who migrated westward from Northern Siberia.

The Yamnaya people are believed to have been particularly tall and well-built. Some of the males were colossal.

The Yamnaya people brought the Indo-European languages into Europe.



This big burly fella, who looks like a slightly lighter-skinned version of the Iron Sheik, measured 6'6"!!! Some of these powerful horseman warriors would have been absolutely terrifying!!!









Conclusion

The above three prehistoric ancestral populations are the basic elements which mixed together to form modern European populations. However, the degree of admixture differs significantly by region, with some populations having more Anatolian Farmer ancestry (e.g., Southern Europeans and Sardinians in particular) and others having more Yamnaya ancestry (e.g., Germanics and Baltics).



Of course, all of the above is somewhat of a simplification of the real situation. In reality, certain other prehistoric ancestral populations further contributed to the development of some modern Europeans such as the Ancient Northern Eurasians (ANE) whom I touched upon momentarily and there also emerged localized population clusters such as the Eastern Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) and Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherers (SHG).

[Lucas88]

I decided to make a thread on this topic because I explained the different genetic components of modern Europeans to @WilliamSmith in another thread and @69ixine also mentioned the topic. I thought that we could get into prehistoric ancestral populations in much greater detail right here.

The prehistory of European populations is undoubtedly a fascinating topic.

Which phenotypic characteristics of each of the prehistoric ancestral populations do you see in the various nationalities of modern Europeans?

Also just for fun:

Which features from the prehistoric ancestral populations do you find the most attractive and which had the hottest women?

Which prehistoric ancestral population do you identify with spiritually?

[Lucas88]

Some more prehistoric ancestral populations which influenced the development of certain modern European people groups:

Eastern Hunter-Gatherers

EHGs were the result of intermixing between Europe's original Western Hunter-Gatherers (WHG) and Ancient North Eurasians (ANE) from Northeastern Siberia, with the ANE ancestry being predominant. EHGs inhabited a vast region between the Dnieper to the West and the Urals to the East.



It is believed that the ANEs who greatly contributed their genetic material to the EHG population brought with them the genes for light skin and blond hair. Because of this the EHGs were whiter than the Western Hunter-Gatherers and resembled more closely the Eastern and Northern Europeans that we know today.










Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherers

SHGs in turn were the result of intermixing between Western Hunter-Gatherers who migrated north following the recession of the ice sheets from around 12,000 before present and Eastern Hunter-Gatherers who migrated westward into Scandinavia. These are the indigenous ancestors of modern Nordic people.



SHG reconstructions:

[69ixine]

Anatolian/levantine farmer women are the hottest,since nerdic women are blah.

I like farmers most.

my maternal lineage/haplotype is from the iberomaurasians,proud to say.

[69ixine]

Spaniard women are moroccans mixed with indo europeans in small amounts.they both come from the iberomaurasian culture.I find iberomaurasians most attractive,this girl has that typical moroccan iberomaurasian phenotype



many moroccan and spaniard women have a phenotype that approaches this





it's my favorite pheno on women.

[69ixine]

SHG women are ugly brunhildes!

[Lucas88]

An interesting short article about the Anatolian farmer population who arrived in the British Isles around 4,000 BCE and built Stonehenge:

Stonehenge Builders Were Immigrants From What is Now Turkey

A study is throwing new light on the population and history of Neolithic Britain. It provides evidence that Stonehenge’s builders were the descendants of farmers who had temporarily settled in modern-day Iberia but originated in what is now Turkey. The research involving the examination of DNA samples indicates that migrant farmers almost completely displaced the native hunter-gatherers, who had roamed the island for thousands of years.

A team of researchers from the Natural History Museum of London carried out the study that examined the DNA of 53 individuals who lived in Britain between 4500 and 12,000 years ago. According to the Independent, the experts examined “47 Neolithic farmer skeletons dating from 6,000 to 4,500 years ago and six Mesolithic hunter-gatherer skeletons.” The results of the DNA analysis allowed the team to compare the genetic makeup of populations from two very different epochs. Then the DNA from the sample of Neolithic farmers was compared to other populations who lived in the same era in continental Europe.

The Path to Neolithic Britain

The researchers were taken aback by what they found after studying all the data. Based on the evidence, the Neolithic people who were responsible for Stonehenge originated in the region of modern-day Turkey. The BBC reports that they were probably part of a “massive expansion of people out of Anatolia in 6,000 BC that introduced farming to Europe.” They were probably looking for more arable land to feed their growing population.

One group took the Danube route and settled over much of central and western Europe and the other group made their way via the Mediterranean to Iberia. The majority of the population in Britain at the time of the construction of Stonehenge , around 3000 BC were descended from those who settled in Iberia. As the BBC reports, the evidence indicates that the British sample of Neolithic agriculturists DNA “most closely resembled Neolithic people from Iberia (modern Spain and Portugal).”

Based on the genetic evidence, it seems that many of the Iberian migrants arrived in Wales or Cornwall first and the most likely explanation for this is that they sailed in boats that followed the coastline or island hopped . Although the Independent notes that “some British groups had a minor amount of ancestry from groups that followed the Danube route.” This would suggest that some farmers also made their way to Britain via France.

An analysis of the data showed that these farmers, who according to the BBC “reached Britain in about 4,000BC,” nearly entirely replaced the existing population. The people who inhabited the island before the newcomers were mainly hunter-gatherers who lived by hunting game, fishing, and foraging for food. When comparing the DNA of the Neolithic farmers to others in Europe, the researchers found something else surprising. In the group that made their way from Turkey via the Danube, the found evidence that they mixed with the local hunter-gatherers. However, this was not the case with the 47 samples of Neolithic remains found in Britain, who did not appear to have mixed with the natives.

Why Did the Hunter-Gatherers Disappear?

This should not be seen as indicating that the new migrants waged a campaign of genocidal violence against the pre-existing population. More likely the hunter-gatherers were too small in number to leave a genetic trace. Only in the remote West of Scotland is there any real evidence for the DNA of the hunter-gatherers among later populations. This suggests that those who lived by hunting and foraging were forced to more remote areas by the incoming farmers, and this could also help to explain the lack of mixing between the newcomers and the original inhabitants.

The migrants whose forebears originated in the Eastern Mediterranean appear to have been very different from the native inhabitants. They were fairer and had paler skin than those who lived in modern-day Britain in the Mesolithic period. It appears that the native hunter-gathers, such as Cheddar Man who lived around 7000 BC, had very dark complexions but blue or green eyes, and they were very dissimilar to any present-day groups.

Stonehenge’s Builders and an Agricultural and Social Revolution

According to the Independent, the migrants brought “farming techniques, pottery, and new religious cultures and beliefs” with them. They appear to have developed a very sophisticated society and this is evidenced by their construction of Stonehenge and other megaliths. Moreover, their farming methods changed the physical landscape of the island. It is worth noting that the Iberian migrants were later utterly displaced by newcomers from the Bell Beaker culture (2800-2300 BC).

The study allows experts to better understand the pre-history of the British Isles . The DNA evidence demonstrates that farming was introduced by migrants and not adopted by the native hunter-gatherers. It also proves the importance of migration in the distant past. The findings of the study have been published in the academic journal Nature Ecology & Evolution.

Source: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-hi ... rs-0011756


Here is a reconstruction of an Anatolian Farmer woman from the British Isles and related to the culture which built Stonehenge:



She is Whitehawk Woman. She lived in present-day Sussex around 5,600 years ago.

As the article above explains, the Anatolian Farmers, who form the basis of the various Mediterranean populations today, largely displaced the indigenous Western Hunter-Gatherers in the British Isles (except in Western Scotland). Also, their incursion into the region occurred at least 1000 years before the Yamnaya/Aryan expansion into Europe. Those people were therefore mostly pure Anatolian Farmers/Mediterraneans with little to no external admixture.

The same Anatolian Farmers who arrived in the British Isles around 4,000 BCE seem to be the most brilliant and inventive of the three main prehistoric ancestral populations. Unlike the Western Hunter-Gatherers who lived a primitive lifestyle, this newcomer population quickly spread agriculture throughout much of the continent and even erected great mysterious megaliths such as Stonehenge as cited in the text. Perhaps they were descendants of the people with advanced construction and engineering who built Göbekli Tepe in southeastern Turkey? Anyway, this prehistoric ancestral population in particular seems to have been the most brilliant. A big deal is often made about the Yamnaya Steppe Pastoralists or Indo-European "Aryans" who expanded into Europe after 3,000 BCE but the Anatolian-derived populations seem to have been more culturally advanced.

Curiously, it was the various Mediterranean populations with a higher concentration of Anatolian Farmer ancestry who built the most advanced civilizations in early Europe. The Minoans, Mycenaean Greeks and Etruscans all derived predominantly from AFs. Is this what @69ixine was talking about when he mentioned "Med supremacy" in his recent discussion with @WilliamSmith?

69ixine, I likewise always identified a Mediterranean origin of European civilization despite being of predominantly Northern European ancestry myself. The Minoans, Greeks, Etruscans and eventually the Romans were considerably more advanced than Northern and Eastern Europeans who were seen as "Barbarians" in ancient time. I've always regarded Mediterranean civilization as superior and it seems that this cultural superiority goes all the way back to the incursion of the Anatolian Farmers.

As for the Anatolian Farmer woman from Sussex included in the photo above, if British women still looked like that today with beautiful Anatolian/Mediterranean features and nice tanned olive/light-brown skin, then I would have been more than happy to date and sleep with British girls and wouldn't have had to set my sights of the women of a distant continent just to date and get laid. The woman in the photo looks soft, feminine and beautiful as well as good wife material. Unfortunately, British women were ruined by the massive influx of Eastern admixture and ended up with ghastly pale skin and too many ugly mannish features. Not trying to sound mean or anything, just giving my subjective opinion.

With regard to the Yamnaya/"Aryan" people who were originally dark-skinned and with brown eyes and who entered Europe from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, what do you think their origins were, @69ixine? Could they have been an offshoot of the Vedic people who for some reason separated from their original civilization and entered Central Asia and then Europe bringing a corrupted form of the Vedic religion and what would ultimately become the various Indo-European Pagan religions of Europe? Indian intellectual Abhijit Chavda, who supports the Out-of-Indian Hypothesis, holds this view and theorizes that the Indo-European Steppe population descended from wayward Kshatriyas who had either abandoned or been expelled from the lands of the Indic culture sphere.

[Lucas88]

@69ixine, we all know that the Yamnaya Steppe Pastoralists brought the ancestor of the Indo-European languages into Europe and that this would in turn become Baltic, Slavic, Germanic, Greek, Italic, Celtic, etc., but with which prehistoric ancestral populations did the other non-IE languages of Europe develop?

The Anatolian Farmers might have spoken Tyrsenian/Tyrrhenian languages like the Etruscan of the Anatolian-derived people of Etruria (modern-day Tuscany) and eastern Corsica and the Lemnian spoken in the Aegean. The Minoan language might have belonged to this language family.

What about the Basque-like languages of pre-IE Europe? Were they spoken by Anatolian Farmers too or did those come from the indigenous Western Hunter-Gatherers? The Anatolian Farmers who arrived in the British Isles around 4,000 BCE entered Britain via the Iberian Peninsula and then Northwestern France. I once read that the early British people who would eventually become the Celts had Basque origins and spoke a Basque-like language before an Indo-European Celtic elite imposed their own language on the majority. Could the Basque-like language have been brought from the Iberian Peninsula by the Anatolian Farmers? If so, would this link the Basque-like languages to the Tyrsenian/Tyrrhenian languages?

Finally, what about the Finno-Ugric languages such as Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian? Is it true that those non-IE languages were brought into Europe by the Ancient Northern Eurasians (ANE) who migrated westward? Curiously, Hungarian's closest linguistic relatives are the Mansi and Khanty languages spoken in Siberia.

[69ixine]

@Lucas88 this is how british women would look without yamnaya dna

You see why we must fight white colonialism?all the sexpats are gonna bleach the world out to look like brunhildes.

[Lucas88]

Anatolian/levantine farmer women are the hottest,since nerdic women are blah.

I like farmers most.

my maternal lineage/haplotype is from the iberomaurasians,proud to say.

I find both Western Hunter-Gatherers and Anatolian Farmers attractive but for different reasons.

Western Hunter-Gatherers had nice delicate Cro Magnon facial features similar to many modern Europeans. I actually believe that many Europeans (Baltics, Slavs, Central Europeans, French, etc.) have attractive faces but are unfortunately usually a bit too pale/melanin-deficient for my liking. But the WHGs had both attractive face and dark/melanated skin. I reckon that some of the women had cute faces. WHGs did have the genes for dark skin but it isn't clear how dark they were. It still isn't known whether they were dark like Africans or simply light brown or what range of skin tone their populations displayed. If some of them were light brown like Latinas, they will have looked quite nice. The blue eyes also look endearing together with the darker skin tone. The contrast makes for a unique aesthetic. Finally, WHGs are believed to have been more well-built than modern Europeans. This means that the women might have been generally thick and had big butts. Indeed, some of the Venus figurines which those cultures made look very curvaceous.

I understand that this photo is just a joke, but the WHG version of this Caucasian female who supposedly epigenetically regressed into her ancestral hunter-gatherer form definitely looks better with the light-brown skin and more robust face than with her ghastly modern pale complexion:



Western-Hunter Gatherer females with cute Cro Magnon facial features, vibrant brown skin, endearing blue eyes, and big butts definitely sound like a type of woman that I'd like.

Anatolian Farmers had attractive olive skin and Mediterranean features similar to modern Albanians. While probably not as exotic or well-built as Western Hunter-Gatherers, the women definitely will have been attractive.



In my opinion, prehistoric Europeans seemed a lot more awesome than modern Europeans with more attractive phenotypes, better tanning genetics and more robust bodies. I'm beginning to fall in love with some of these archaic populations.

SHG women are ugly brunhildes!

My thoughts too. Lol! The SHG women look mannish and ugly. I've always found Northern European and Germanic women quite mannish and too weird-looking due to their melanin deficiency. Not a fan despite being Northern European and Celtic myself. Unfortunately, the EHGs and SHGs suffered depigmentation due to the influx of crappy melanin-deficient ANE genes. That seems to be the reason why they became so ghastly pale. Nordic and Germanic women just don't appeal to me at all.

That said, there are certainly some attractive outliers with good tanning genetics and nice features within the modern Scandinavian population (there are outliers in every population).

The Swedish fitness model Hanna Öberg (the brunette in the video) is a good example:

[Lucas88]

@Lucas88 this is how british women would look without yamnaya dna

Wow, I'd probably be an enthusiastic patriot rather than a self-hating Brit if British women really looked like that due to an alt-history scenario absence of ANE genes.

I'm guessing that if the Yamnaya people and other Eastern groups hadn't entered the British Isles then most British women would look like hot Turkish goddesses.

[Lucas88]

The Western Hunter-Gatherers made so-called "Venus figurines" which depicted extremely voluptuous females. @WilliamSmith will undoubtedly love them!

This is the famous Venus of Willendorf made some 25,000-30,000 years ago:




Here are various examples of other prehistoric European figurines which depict the female form :




William, it seems that the Western Hunter-Gatherers idealized curves and big butts. Maybe a lot of the WHG females were indeed hot culonas and fine full-figured gordibuenas.

By the way, here is a West African Hunter-Gatherer figurine just for comparison (and notice how the dark-skinned lady to the left is particularly steatopygous!) :

[69ixine]

@Lucas88 this is how british women would look without yamnaya dna

Wow, I'd probably be an enthusiastic patriot rather than a self-hating Brit if British women really looked like that due to an alt-history scenario absence of ANE genes.

I'm guessing that if the Yamnaya people and other Eastern groups hadn't entered the British Isles then most British women would look like hot Turkish goddesses.

Those turkish girls are pretty!

Hope you find your brown skinned girl,Lucas88

Stay blessed!

[Jsport]

@Lucas88
You mention how Northern European people were more barbaric and that the Southern Europeans were more advanced civilians in the past. I don't know if you ever noticed in an English soccer game, when the English fans sing and chant in a game, they sound very macho and barbaric, this may be a reflection of their true barbaric nature from the past, which isn't really noticed in their modern everyday life. I notice this singing trait in soccer games from other Northern Europeans as well, but not really from Southern Europeans. English and Scottish fans are the most I notice this from.

Ironically the football enthusiam that the English and the Scottish have reminds me of the Futbol environment I grew up in. Maybe this is why i have been drawn to british culture lol

[Lucas88]

@Lucas88
You mention how Northern European people were more barbaric and that the Southern Europeans were more advanced civilians in the past. I don't know if you ever noticed in an English soccer game, when the English fans sing and chant in a game, they sound very macho and barbaric, this may be a reflection of their true barbaric nature from the past, which isn't really noticed in their modern everyday life. I notice this singing trait in soccer games from other Northern Europeans as well, but not really from Southern Europeans. English and Scottish fans are the most I notice this from.

Ironically the football enthusiam that the English and the Scottish have reminds me of the Futbol environment I grew up in. Maybe this is why i have been drawn to british culture lol

I don't know about all Northern European football fandom but English, Dutch, Polish and other Eastern European hooligans/ultras are absolutely crazy. The English fans pioneered football hooliganism in the 80s and then the other nationalities took it to another level. I've watched quite a few documentaries about this topic since my brother used to be a bit of a football hooligan himself. The Polish hooligans were learning MMA for the sole purpose of fighting with rival firms and some Dutch ultras were getting high on GHB for fights and even using home-made explosives against the police!

But some Southern European fans are pretty serious ultras too. Italy is known for its rambunctious firms and Turkish ultras are known to be quite violent even resorting to knife attacks against rival fans (c'mon guys, it's supposed to be a bit of fun, not an attempt to outright kill each other with deadly weapons).

As for ancient population genetics, the Yamnaya population which came from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe and greatly influenced the genetic makeup of the Northern and Eastern European people groups is widely considered the most violent of the prehistoric ancestral populations of Europe and their invasion and displacement of countless indigenous European males is often described as genocidal (so one might be tempted to assume that Northern and Eastern Europeans should be more barbaric and violent), but ancient Southern European populations could be quite brutal and violent too even though they did possess a higher level of civilization.

I don't think that many Europeans are particularly violent today outside of small pockets of football hooligans and petty thugs. Most Europeans today whether it be in the North or South of the continent are peaceful and civilized due to the material prosperity and law and order brought about by modernity. That said, many English and Scottish working-class people definitely do have a very rough and uncouth vibe. They might be civilized enough to function in modern society without killing others or committing other serious crimes but there is still something noticeably "barbarian" about them.