Simple Businesses to Start

[MrMan]

For those of you who are still in the US or wherever you are that is not 'abroad' who need to earn a living right now, I am hiring some labor to move through UHaul. They work with Moving Help and offer you laborers to come move your stuff.

If you are able bodied and want to move furniture, you could start your own business that way and UHaul sends you referrals. The rates aren't all that high. They charge the customer about $50 an hour for two helpers, or more depending on the location.

[Cornfed]

When I lived in Sydney, Australia in 2013 I thought of doing this, but then it became apparent that it wasn’t viable due to my experiences with having furniture moved. Furniture movers who delivered items from the factory were huge monsters of well over 300lb. Furniture movers for the domestic market were Asian wetbacks, and what they lacked in muscle power they made up for in doing the job for far less than minimum wage. A normal guy would be SOL trying to compete, just like with most things. It is probably the same in most areas.

[MrMan]

When I lived in Sydney, Australia in 2013 I thought of doing this, but then it became apparent that it wasn’t viable due to my experiences with having furniture moved. Furniture movers who delivered items from the factory were huge monsters of well over 300lb. Furniture movers for the domestic market were Asian wetbacks, and what they lacked in muscle power they made up for in doing the job for far less than minimum wage. A normal guy would be SOL trying to compete, just like with most things. It is probably the same in most areas.

This seems like a typical pattern in your posts on such topics. An idea comes up to make money, and you think of some reasons why it won't work out, and decided not to do it. I'm paying about $60 an hour for labor on one job for two people. Let's say you own the company and you pay the other guy $18 an hour. If you did that 8 hours a day five days a week for four weeks that's 6720 a month. That's over $80K US a year. It's back breaking work and I wouldn't want to do that for a living. Those are figures for the US market.

There are plenty of people who work in competitive industries who earn a decent living. If competition is fierce, that doesn't mean no one is making money. If you earned 20% less than the 300 lb. monsters, that might be enough to live on.

I'm not sure if this job is for you. I probably could have done it if I had chosen a life of physical labor when I was younger, but I wouldn't want to be doing this constantly now in my 40s. There are less physically demanding businesses. But it is possible to think of an excuse to shoot down any business or job if you are so inclined.

[hypermak]

This seems like a typical pattern in your posts on such topics. An idea comes up to make money, and you think of some reasons why it won't work out, and decided not to do it. I'm paying about $60 an hour for labor on one job for two people. Let's say you own the company and you pay the other guy $18 an hour. If you did that 8 hours a day five days a week for four weeks that's 6720 a month. That's over $80K US a year. It's back breaking work and I wouldn't want to do that for a living. Those are figures for the US market.

There are plenty of people who work in competitive industries who earn a decent living. If competition is fierce, that doesn't mean no one is making money. If you earned 20% less than the 300 lb. monsters, that might be enough to live on.

I'm not sure if this job is for you. I probably could have done it if I had chosen a life of physical labor when I was younger, but I wouldn't want to be doing this constantly now in my 40s. There are less physically demanding businesses. But it is possible to think of an excuse to shoot down any business or job if you are so inclined.

I thought you lived in Indonesia. So your wife is Indonesia but you live in the US?

[MrMan]

We have bounced around throughout our married lives. I finished up a two-year contract there a couple of years ago and we all moved back to the US. Some of my posts were written when I lived there.

My wife may be getting some land there soon, so if stuff gets too crazy in the US, may be could live there.

[Cornfed]

When I lived in Sydney, Australia in 2013 I thought of doing this, but then it became apparent that it wasn’t viable due to my experiences with having furniture moved. Furniture movers who delivered items from the factory were huge monsters of well over 300lb. Furniture movers for the domestic market were Asian wetbacks, and what they lacked in muscle power they made up for in doing the job for far less than minimum wage. A normal guy would be SOL trying to compete, just like with most things. It is probably the same in most areas.

This seems like a typical pattern in your posts on such topics. An idea comes up to make money, and you think of some reasons why it won't work out, and decided not to do it.

The reason for this is that I have spent a lifetime thinking of and researching ways to make money outside of GovCorp, and my conclusion is that most things won’t work for most people. If some people are exceptions to this rule then fine, go be exceptions, but the reality is that most people won’t succeed and by predicting their failure I am much more right than not. Anyway, this was an actual life experience that I am doing the world a favour by contributing to the public space.

[hypermak]

The reason for this is that I have spent a lifetime thinking of and researching ways to make money outside of GovCorp, and my conclusion is that most things won’t work for most people. If some people are exceptions to this rule then fine, go be exceptions, but the reality is that most people won’t succeed and by predicting their failure I am much more right than not. Anyway, this was an actual life experience that I am doing the world a favour by contributing to the public space.

It might not be relevant to you or your inclinations, but running a coffee shop or a pizzeria is one of the most lucrative things you could do. A coffee shot that is sold for 2 USD will cost 30 cents at most, including shop rental, equipment amortization, training and staff costs.

A bakery or pizzeria/small restaurant is lucrative to a similar 1:10 or 1:15 factor but the success is much more dependent on

1. how much effort you want to invest in finding a good location and fitting it out, training yourself as a chef or employing decent kitchen staff and
2. how much spirit of sacrifice you can have: waking up at 5 AM for years and years, possibly forever, and finishing late night might not be for everyone.

[hypermak]

We have bounced around throughout our married lives. I finished up a two-year contract there a couple of years ago and we all moved back to the US. Some of my posts were written when I lived there.

My wife may be getting some land there soon, so if stuff gets too crazy in the US, may be could live there.

I see @MrMan, thanks for clarifying. So I guess you don't miss life in SEA much at the moment?

[Cornfed]

I'm paying about $60 an hour for labor on one job for two people. Let's say you own the company and you pay the other guy $18 an hour. If you did that 8 hours a day five days a week for four weeks that's 6720 a month. That's over $80K US a year. It's back breaking work and I wouldn't want to do that for a living. Those are figures for the US market.

So what about the down time? What about the administrative overheads like doing your taxes? (Some people might be able to ignore that, but try doing that as a white guy and see what happens). Did they have a vehicle? What about the vehicle expenses? What about the building this is based from and its expenses. And insurance. And the accountant. Have you thought this through? I'm saying this from the perspective of a person who has run a small business.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

One thing that people don't consider is that starting a small business tends to have a high risk of failure. That being the case, I encourage people to PURCHASE functioning businesses with the help of a business broker. The business broker puts people who want to sell businesses in touch with those who wish to buy them. Some of the advantages of a business broker are:

-They can assist with analyzing the books and determining profitability.

-There is already an established customer base and usually trained employees.

-They can find liens, pending lawsuits, landlord disputes, and other snags that can cost you big money later.

-They can try to find a business that suits your skills, abilities, and lifestyle.

There is never a guarantee that purchasing a business will succeed, but the name of the game is risk mitigation and buying an established, profitable venture is a smart move for new small business people.

Don't count out buying a franchise business which can be a great way for them to train you in everything from keeping the books, marketing, and operations. The franchise fees can be high for some companies, but they have a strong incentive to troubleshoot problems for you and keep you profitable because they want to keep collecting your annual fees. It is a hand holding relationship, especially in the beginning, but people make millions from owning franchised businesses.

The best business model I know is passive investment income where you do not have to work at all, but buying actual businesses is a less costly, yet smart strategy also.

[Cornfed]

One thing that people don't consider is that starting a small business tends to have a high risk of failure. That being the case, I encourage people to PURCHASE functioning businesses with the help of a business broker.

I'm trying not to be overly negative, but a thing you have to bear in mind when purchasing a successful business is that the reason the business was successful generally walks out the door when you hand over the money.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

One thing that people don't consider is that starting a small business tends to have a high risk of failure. That being the case, I encourage people to PURCHASE functioning businesses with the help of a business broker.

I'm trying not to be overly negative, but a thing you have to bear in mind when purchasing a successful business is that the reason the business was successful generally walks out the door when you hand over the money.

Perhaps sometimes, buy not always. The best business people have surrounded themselves with great staff and great management who are usually even more in tune with the operations and functioning of the business than the ownership.

But yes, that is overly negative for a prospective new business owner because a new buyer should be taking over the venture with the mindset of expanding upon its success.

Some people like to work at a business before purchasing it to both learn it and develop key relationships.

But I have to say fear-based rationalizations which serve to talk oneself out of taking action is the worst. There is always risk in business, but lack of action due to succumbing to fears guarantees remaining outside the game.

I still say this model is better than starting from scratch because most American new business owners fail in their first 2 or 3 attempts. They cite the lessons of the first failures as the reasons they ultimately succeeded. Buying an established business has those key lessons built in already.

[MrMan]

We have bounced around throughout our married lives. I finished up a two-year contract there a couple of years ago and we all moved back to the US. Some of my posts were written when I lived there.

My wife may be getting some land there soon, so if stuff gets too crazy in the US, may be could live there.

I see @MrMan, thanks for clarifying. So I guess you don't miss life in SEA much at the moment?

I'm open to opportunities. I have a pretty good career in the US right now, on track for some 'golden handcuffs', but I shouldn't let that hold me back or limit me. My kids are at an age where studying overseas isn't the best option. If you happen to get free tuition at an international school for as many kids as I have, the US government counts that as cash income, which, if your salary is high enough, diminishes some of the tax benefits of working overseas. But I am open. My wife and I are thinking of investing in websites in Indonesia which could take us there, and it looks like she will be coming into some land soon, so that could take us back. I also have a couple of projects I could work on there, but there is no specific deadline.

[MrMan]

I'm paying about $60 an hour for labor on one job for two people. Let's say you own the company and you pay the other guy $18 an hour. If you did that 8 hours a day five days a week for four weeks that's 6720 a month. That's over $80K US a year. It's back breaking work and I wouldn't want to do that for a living. Those are figures for the US market.

So what about the down time? What about the administrative overheads like doing your taxes? (Some people might be able to ignore that, but try doing that as a white guy and see what happens). Did they have a vehicle? What about the vehicle expenses? What about the building this is based from and its expenses. And insurance. And the accountant. Have you thought this through? I'm saying this from the perspective of a person who has run a small business.

I've co-owned a couple of businesses, one with my wife and another with the friend. I did the taxes on both of them. The first one was done on a schedule C, which was a little annoying to learn at first, but now seems rather easy. The other was taxed as a partnership. I think I'll go for a CPA the next time I have partnership taxes or anything more complicated.

The movers did not have a moving vehicle. One of them was thinking about it. The other set of movers did not show up at all. I got a refund through the website. It felt like 100 degrees out, or probably higher, with the humidity. We'd met some people house hunting, and someone from their church knew a couple of guys. We had a high school football player and this other big dude move our furniture. After doing so much lifting myself, I didn't feel like touching it. I loaded another truckload with some help, but I didn't feel like unloading. I couldn't find movers at a price that was reasonable, so I went to a neighborhood basketball court when it got late enough in the day for young folks to start showing up and paid a couple of teenagers $60 apiece to unload a lighter load that had a bunch of small stuff and lighter furniture. So just one set of professional movers showed up, another stood us up, and I just found the rest in the neighborhood.

I would not want to move furniture, but if I had poor job prospects, was young and in good shape, I might do that to feed my family. It's terrible work. But if you own the business, you might be able to earn $60 or $70K doing that if you work a lot. Knock off $1000 of that for someone to fill out your taxes or do it yourself. I'm not sure what liability insurance is. They can probably deduct gasoline/petrol for driving to locations from their taxes and a few other expenses.

[MrMan]

One thing that people don't consider is that starting a small business tends to have a high risk of failure. That being the case, I encourage people to PURCHASE functioning businesses with the help of a business broker. The business broker puts people who want to sell businesses in touch with those who wish to buy them. Some of the advantages of a business broker are:

That is probably good advice for a lot of businesses, unless the business person has already owned a business in that field and doesn't have the blind spots that a newbie has. There may be some retiree willing to sell a business at a discount, too, so it is possible to pay below market in some situations.

Starting a franchise is another risk-reduction strategy. Depending on the company selling the franchise, they may offer a lot of support and have experience helping new business owners get started. The company's advertising may send customers your way.

Steak and Shake was advertizing becoming a franchisee for $10K. I thought surely that was after the building. But I looked it up, and it looks like it's just 10K. I was thinking of investing with a Hibachi chef friend of mine, but they require you invest 10K and that you run the business...no absentee owners. I don't want to abandon what I am doing to flip burgers, even though it might pay more overall. I don't know if it will pay better by the hour, though. That would be a rough career. I'm not sure how the pandemic affected their business either. But I do not think the company is doing well financially. Chick-Fil-A is doing better and they have a similar model....[I did a bit of research. Steak and Shake can kick you out at any time and change the terms of the contract, and the 'owner' doesn't really own anything.)

But what I had in mind was more along the lines of micro-business. Signing up to lift furniture for UHaul's online partner (move something or other dot come) and moving furniture doesn't require buying a business, but the upside potential is also fairly limited, and it is terrible work that does not require a very valuable specialized skill.

The professional movers we hired who showed up weren't as skilled as my parents were at packing a moving truck. I went to take care of something and came back and the truck was a quarter full horizontally, but three quarters empty vertically. We had so many plants that we couldn't stack that we needed two trips anyway, so we probably did not lose anything, but I would have expected them to be more skilled if they specialized in moving.