What is the point of living abroad if you have a wife from your country?

[MatureDJ]

I would have no problem with going somewhere on an extended vacation, or if doing something with the Peace Corps, etc., but what would be the point of living abroad if your wife is from your country (obviously, there would be nothing wrong with living abroad in the country where your wife is from)?

Cheap living? There are tons of places in the USA (OK, maybe the situation is different for folks from other wealthy countries) with cheap places to live - just pick out a dying old town, and you could buy a renovated house dirt cheap. And if you're not working, you qualify for Medicaid! OK, maybe there are some places that are like California coast weather on the cheap. I could also see living in the Alps, but that's going to be expensive.

This article is about how expats with wives saying they wanted to go back home:

https://cuencahighlife.com/why-do-expat ... asons-why/

[yick]

Not everyone is American, if you're British or German or Swedish and it's shit weather for 50 weeks a year then going abroad and living in a decent climate is a good idea - those yanks who go over to Ecuador - well, if they are paying 10000 dollars a year on property tax - then they must think 'oh f**k this' let's go somewhere where we can stretch our money... I don't get the hype Cuenca gets and how International Living has managed to blag so many elderly yanks into the Cuenca hype but there you go!

Where the Americans have the advantage is that the country is so big then moving abroad for a better climate doesn't have to be an option if they can move to Arizona or wherever but maybe they're bored with their lives and they want to make a substantial change instead of living their whole lives in their shitty hometown...

Women have nothing to do with it to be honest... things that matter (for me at least...) are climate, food, safety, cost of living, quality of life - women are everywhere - the nicest looking women I have ever seen are in Moscow - would I live through one of their winters? f**k no!

[yick]

Good article though, DJ - thanks for sharing!

NB: Not everyone in the article wanted to go home nor back to The States - many went to other parts of the world and a fair few were happy to stay right where they are.

[Shemp]

There are some happy married expats or perpetual travelers. Google Paul Terhorst, for example, who has been traveling with his wife for over 35 years. He inspired me long ago when I read "Cashing in on the American Dream, retire at 35" and followed a very similar path to him. Namely, earn a high income in the USA for about 15 years and save as much as possible, then retire someplace cheap and live off savings. Terhorst long ago suggested small towns of southern USA are as cheap as most poor countries, if you can manage to avoid the USA health care scam. He and his wife initially retired to Argentina, but then left and became perpetual travelers after prices in Argentina skyrocketed around 2000. He and wife both speak fluent Spanish, unlike those Cuenca types, and had many friends in Argentina, including former business associates. Terhorst profession was international accountant, specializing in South America.

As for me, I've been a perpetual traveler more than expat for past 20 years. No permanent home. Just a big storage locker in the USA, small storage locker in Ukraine, where I am currently. I make a point of speaking the language of all the countries I spend time in. Currently fluent in Spanish, French, Russian. Learned enough Greek and Turkish to get around back when I was considering those countries as long term travel destinations, but since forgot everything. Not knowing the local language is a great way to go crazy living long term in a foreign country. It also helps if you don't need a permanent partner. I am very happy alone, or with sugar baby and other disreputable relationship types.

PS. As followup to the whiny "Forum doesn't give good first impression" thread, note that Terhorst never got much fame, despite writing a very intelligent book, far more intelligent than all the other early retirement books, precisely because Terhorst was a high level international accountant and so actually knew what he was taking about. He wasnt a conman/grifter type, in other words, like that JohnnyFD. Then again, Terhorst wasn't seeking fame. He retired young and wrote the book as a hobby to pass the time, and never really got into self promotion, because he didnt need to make more money and was more interested in living life. Whereas JohnnyFD and similar YouTube grifters basically do nothing but make YouTube videos and Instagram posts all day long telling everyone how great their life is and how they got rich quick and for $400 will sell you a course explaining how you too can get rich quick. Idiots don't want true stories and useful information like Terhorst provides. Instead, they want scammy grifter bullshit.

PPS that article mentioned International Living, which is scam central. Nothing bit ads to buy overpriced real estate in South America, and never the truth about how gringoes typically lose 90% of their "investment" when they later sell the money pit.

[yick]

There are some happy married expats or perpetual travelers. Google Paul Terhorst, for example, who has been traveling with his wife for over 35 years. He inspired me long ago when I read "Cashing in on the American Dream, retire at 35" and followed a very similar path to him. Namely, earn a high income in the USA for about 15 years and save as much as possible, then retire someplace cheap and live off savings. Terhorst long ago suggested small towns of southern USA are as cheap as most poor countries, if you can manage to avoid the USA health care scam. He and his wife initially retired to Argentina, but then left and became perpetual travelers after prices in Argentina skyrocketed around 2000. He and wife both speak fluent Spanish, unlike those Cuenca types, and had many friends in Argentina, including former business associates. Terhorst profession was international accountant, specializing in South America.

As for me, I've been a perpetual traveler more than expat for past 20 years. No permanent home. Just a big storage locker in the USA, small storage locker in Ukraine, where I am currently. I make a point of speaking the language of all the countries I spend time in. Currently fluent in Spanish, French, Russian. Learned enough Greek and Turkish to get around back when I was considering those countries as long term travel destinations, but since forgot everything. Not knowing the local language is a great way to go crazy living long term in a foreign country. It also helps if you don't need a permanent partner. I am very happy alone, or with sugar baby and other disreputable relationship types.

PS. As followup to the whiny "Forum doesn't give good first impression" thread, note that Terhorst never got much fame, despite writing a very intelligent book, far more intelligent than all the other early retirement books, precisely because Terhorst was a high level international accountant and so actually knew what he was taking about. He wasnt a conman/grifter type, in other words, like that JohnnyFD. Then again, Terhorst wasn't seeking fame. He retired young and wrote the book as a hobby to pass the time, and never really got into self promotion, because he didnt need to make more money and was more interested in living life. Whereas JohnnyFD and similar YouTube grifters basically do nothing but make YouTube videos and Instagram posts all day long telling everyone how great their life is and how they got rich quick and for $400 will sell you a course explaining how you too can get rich quick. Idiots don't want true stories and useful information like Terhorst provides. Instead, they want scammy grifter bullshit.

PPS that article mentioned International Living, which is scam central. Nothing bit ads to buy overpriced real estate in South America, and never the truth about how gringoes typically lose 90% of their "investment" when they later sell the money pit.

I am going to look that book up, thanks for that, Frank! I think there is a lot to be said about an improved quality of life instead of piling into the debt cycle which is what a lot of people do - and the machine bungs a credit rating on you and that seems to encourage people to spend more money that they haven't got - that you escaped that never-ending cycle (because it is very hard to get out of it once you start as people seem to be programmed into starting over again if they ever clear their debts...) and took just 15 years to live the life you want to live.

Saying that, if you have kids and get married - I don't suppose many people have a choice but get into the debt cycle because it seems to cost a fortune to even raise one kid these days as well as health care, college funds, cars and the rest of the crap.

On a different note - International Living has sold Cuenca well to the masses, people are took in by it, I mean I am sure it is a nice enough place to live as well as Boquete in Panama and Ajiic in Mexico but they all seem to be saturated by Americans - it also seems there are a few who turn up there sight unseen which is madness.

What is interesting about that article are the Americans who turned up in Spain and Portugal only to find it wasn't what they were expecting... it was a worthwhile read for sure.

With many parts of Asia, they're not really good choices for long term living on retirement funds - having to renew every year (and a lot of countries don't have them at all - Taiwan, South Korea...) with South America, most places will give you citizenship and I think a lot of them are suitable for Americans - moreso than Asia anyway but you have to pick carefully.

What about Ukraine, Frank? Do you think you will see out your days there?

[Shemp]

What about Ukraine, Frank? Do you think you will see out your days there?

I'm probably going to make it my home base in Europe, so I can stop flying cross-Atlantic to the USA each year, since I anticipate problems in the future. Luckily, I was already prepared for two years in Europe, so covid didn't impact me badly, but eventually I want to be able to stay permanently in Europe. Most of my problems are related to banking. Technology to allow effortless international banking existed in the 1970's, but banks benefit from the current screwed up system. I think the floodgates will soon open, however.

Anyway, Ukraine is just a cheap convenient hone base, now that I know the language. I can buy temporary residency for about $1000/year. If they stop that program, I can just visit part of each year as a tourist and spend orher months elsewhere in Europe. My plan is to keep moving around and living in hotels or weekly apartments until I die.

As for Terhorst's book, it's out of print and nothing special. Best thing was the intelligence and common sense of the author, which was inspiring compared to the usual drivel that gets published. Basic idea was simple: geographic arbitrage is powerful. Earn a New York or London financial industry salary, but live like poor graduate student do you save most of your salary, then 15 years later move someplace cheap. Children will obviously complicate things, though a man who retired at 40 could move to a cheap country and still start a family at that age. I never had any desire for children myself and neither did Terhorst or his wife, as I recall.

As for Portugal and Spain, the thing these people never consider is what they are going to be doing all day long. Who cares if apartments in small towns of Andalucía are $50K if you do nothing but watch television and get drunk all day? I've been retired 22 years now, and I know how to live the retired life without getting bored or turning into a zombie alcoholic. Not everyone has this ability however.

[yick]

What about Ukraine, Frank? Do you think you will see out your days there?

I'm probably going to make it my home base in Europe, so I can stop flying cross-Atlantic to the USA each year, since I anticipate problems in the future. Luckily, I was already prepared for two years in Europe, so covid didn't impact me badly, but eventually I want to be able to stay permanently in Europe. Most of my problems are related to banking. Technology to allow effortless international banking existed in the 1970's, but banks benefit from the current screwed up system. I think the floodgates will soon open, however.

Anyway, Ukraine is just a cheap convenient hone base, now that I know the language. I can buy temporary residency for about $1000/year. If they stop that program, I can just visit part of each year as a tourist and spend orher months elsewhere in Europe. My plan is to keep moving around and living in hotels or weekly apartments until I die.

As for Terhorst's book, it's out of print and nothing special. Best thing was the intelligence and common sense of the author, which was inspiring compared to the usual drivel that gets published. Basic idea was simple: geographic arbitrage is powerful. Earn a New York or London financial industry salary, but live like poor graduate student do you save most of your salary, then 15 years later move someplace cheap. Children will obviously complicate things, though a man who retired at 40 could move to a cheap country and still start a family at that age. I never had any desire for children myself and neither did Terhorst or his wife, as I recall.

As for Portugal and Spain, the thing these people never consider is what they are going to be doing all day long. Who cares if apartments in small towns of Andalucía are $50K if you do nothing but watch television and get drunk all day? I've been retired 22 years now, and I know how to live the retired life without getting bored or turning into a zombie alcoholic. Not everyone has this ability however.

Great points there, I think also people who expat have to be somewhat socially self-sufficient and be proficient at the language or at least try and learn it - the life of an expat means giving up solid social circles and people move on and going to places like Spain where it is hard to break into established social circles - they just end up being unhappy and watching TV all day.

The reason why people usually go to places like Cuenca is because they want to recreate their social circles back home which can't really happen because most people pack up after a couple of years. That you can keep yourself occupied without having a social circle of expats is a great thing to have in your armour (and mine....) and means you can basically set up anywhere in the world.