Why women cannot understand or relate to us

[MrPeabody]

Repatriate is right on the money. The things you need to know most, people won’t tell you. You need to develop your skills of observations and go over every clue. People may be ashamed of their real motives or want to make themselves look good as possible, so will give you BS so that you will go away. However, the perception thing works in your advantage in a foreign country. If you are a gringo, you can be perceived as normal and desirable, even though you don’t fit in your own country; especially, if the people haven’t had much prior contact with gringos. My Colombian ex wife treated my like a god when we were in Colombia. She saw me as something valuable that could be snatched from her at any moment by another woman, and she was very jealous and would instantly notice any woman who looked at me. But, when she moved to the US, the situation slowly changed, and she was an American woman by year three. The situation normalized and I became the beggar, as any American man, and she was the hot property. She now has a job and gets all kinds of help from men. She has more support in America then I have had in my entire life. My advice to men is that you really need to get out of America permanently if you want to have a happy life. If you bring a foreign woman into America, she will turn into another American woman. How could it be any other way? When you mix hot and cold water together, they equalize and become the same temperature. If you live in her country, other women will remind her daily how valuable you are. In America, her friends will inform her of all her rights, and plant suggestions in her head that she can get a better deal elsewhere.

[BellaRuth]

Repatriate:

Perhaps we are talking about different things. It sounds as if by 'dating' you mean when some sort of relationship has already started, even if it's in an early stage. If that's the case then no one has ever asked me for advice in that area and I can't imagine them doing so. Perhaps it's a slight cultural difference. Any man I know, asking me for advice on a girl he is already dating- unthinkable, almost taboo. He would sort it out himself and I would leave him to it otherwise I would be seen as interfering/suffocating.

By 'dating advice' I meant the very beginning, when you are trying to get interest, when you don't know how to approach a girl. I still think that advice from women is a great idea in this area. Obviously I'm assuming the girl you ask has some interest in helping you.

For instance men usually ask me questions such as 'should I be direct (as in asking straight out 'want a date'?') or 'What do you think of pick-up lines?' Or what I think of clothing choices, perhaps, or very broad, hypothetical situations concerning a girlfriend who doesn't exist yet.

As a girl I get a lot of men thinking they can bounce straight into asking me if I want a date with absolutely no conversation, even a shared glance, beforehand. It's such a wasted opportunity. I can't imagine most girls saying yes to that without knowing what kind of basic personality you have. I mean, what am I going to do, agree to go out with a man I haven't even spoken a sentence to yet? Again, flattering, yes, best approach? No. This is the kind of thing I get asked about.

Most men couldn't care less about her career choices or relative social class as long as it's not destructive in some way.

I think this is only a focus for women in American culture. I honestly don't know a single woman who would place importance on career choice or social class unless she was a hardcore vegan and he was a butcher, or she was a snobby aristocrat and he worked in a chip shop. In fact if I imagine a woman I know expressing distaste at a man's career or social status purely because she thinks she deserves better she would look awful, tacky, horrible. I do get the feeling however that in America people are more encouraged to 'reach for the stars', not accept anything less, and be proud of it.

And I can't think of any situation where 'be yourself' / 'buy her flowers' would be good advice. I actually tried to think of a silly example like the ones above but I'm struggling. I imagine this sort of advice would be given by a bored listener who doesn't really want to think about your problem and give a proper answer.

The fact is women are initially judgmental and focus on details right off the bat making quick calls based on how the person appeals to their emotions. For example if a guy lacks confidence it's an instant turn off and he's shut out from that point onward and it's much more difficult to come back from that.

So do men.

A woman might be put off by a guy who darts his eyes around nervously and stutters and bites his nails whilst talking to them, yes. Their programming says to leave him alone if they are looking for a masculine man (this doesn't mean 'alpha', 'arrogant', 'aggressive', just masculine).

The equivalent of this for you perhaps is an aggressive, pushy woman who won't let you breathe and be the man in the relationship. Men would be put off by this just the same.

All people are judgmental, of both genders, it's just how we operate as social animals. There's a load of men who'd never give me a chance cos I don't have big tits/I'm not tanned. It's life, and you'll never be able to catch every fish you want. But you can improve your chances, presuming you're not... say, me talking to a guy who only likes Brazilian women. Good first impressions are usually workable.

[Winston]

I don't like either approach. The formulaic advice puts people into formulas and they often do not fit into them. And the overly rosy advice is just naive. Both are flawed. I prefer to just go with the flow, and adjust my actions in accord with it.

You've lived in Taipei for ten years. Haven't you had enough people watching experience there already?

Has going with the flow and adjusting your actions in accord with it worked effectively for you in attracting women? Perhaps there are a few golden nuggets within all the PU philosophies, especially the self-improvement advice some of them include. There is nothing wrong with becoming a better more interesting version of yourself.

I've been in Taipei for a long time but travel abroad 3-6 months each year. And I enjoy watching people everywhere, I never get tired of it. If I'm lucky, I get a chance to join the interactions myself. With so many countries and cultures on the planet, I always learn new things. And even the relatively mundane people in Taipei are still interesting to watch and interact with.

It depends on where I go with the flow and whether the flow works in my favor. lol. To me, location has been the prime factor. I haven't seen any evidence that PUA works, but logically, it would only work if you are on the borderline between whether a girl likes you or not. If you are too far out of her range, PUA doesn't matter. Unfortunately, most American women do not see me as dating material at all, so PUA has been irrevelant for me.

Overall though, I think relationship or dating advice is useless, since people and feelings don't fit into formulas. Not even the smartest guy in the world can predict what a woman he doesn't know is going to do. I've never seen any "advice" from anywhere change a man's dating life, other than going overseas of course.

Advice only works in problems that are of a technical nature, like calling a plumber and asking him for advice and step by step instructions on changing the pipes. When it comes to attracting women, I've never seen advice make a difference. She either likes you or she doesn't, based on her feelings and tastes and on your looks too of course. From there, it all flows in accord with that. If a girl is crazy about you, you can do little wrong. If she's not, you can try to impress her all you want, it won't matter.

[Winston]

I think Bella is right that some women can give good insight into other women and how they think.

But the point I was getting at was that a woman's advice isn't usually going to help a guy attract other women, or make a disinterested woman suddenly interested in him.

He can take her advice in how to handle a woman he's involved with already, how to deal with conflict resolution, etc. and it might help. But advice even from a smart woman isn't going to "turn a man's dating life around". You can't fix something that is not of a technical nature. And you can't change who you are and what you look like (other than clothes and hair).

For example, if your partner leaves you cause she's had enough and grown apart in a different direction, there isn't anything you can "fix" that will restore the relationship. There's no part to fix or replace. The connection and interest just isn't there. Once a woman flees, that's usually it. She usually never comes back. No advice can fix that. I'm talking about her fleeing cause she no longer loves you though, not cause you had a fight or argument.

American woman always use this phrase when they are leaving you for good, "I need space." Those are the words of death. When she says that, your relationship is finished and irreparable. She's leaving you for good. Changing yourself or giving her what she wants isn't going to change anything. You can't do something that will change her mind.

On the other hand, if a woman is still into you and has a simple fight with you, you can always make up by apologizing and doing something sweet. But you don't need advice for that. Anyone can do that.

So the point is, advice doesn't usually make any difference in the natural flow of things.

[BellaRuth]

So the point is, advice doesn't usually make any difference in the natural flow of things.

Yes but that's so different from saying all relationship advice from a woman is rubbish

What can't be fixed can't be fixed, whether it's a woman or a man trying to help you.

[MrPeabody]

As a girl I get a lot of men thinking they can bounce straight into asking me if I want a date with absolutely no conversation, even a shared glance, beforehand. It's such a wasted opportunity. I can't imagine most girls saying yes to that without knowing what kind of basic personality you have. I mean, what am I going to do, agree to go out with a man I haven't even spoken a sentence to yet? Again, flattering, yes, best approach? No. This is the kind of thing I get asked about.

This is spoken from the position of a woman in a first world culture who has an economic and demographic advantage. The “a lot of men� are “bouncing straight in� because they are in the down position, desperate and don’t have options. Not surprisingly, women who live in third world countries where there is more women than men act the same way. The reality is driven by fundamental forces of economics and demographics, and the one ups always put a happy face on it to show why it’s actually their fine attributes and not their privileged position. To get yourself out of this matrix if you are a man, you just have to leave America.

[BellaRuth]

The “a lot of men� are “bouncing straight in� because they are in the down position, desperate and don’t have options.

That would make sense, but the men that do that (bounce straight in) are the types of men that want to pull a different girl every night. They don't approach in desperation- they are confident, cocky and can't see why 'nice girls' don't go for it and they just get one night stands.

The last guy that asked me that had his pretty girlfriend sat next to him well within hearing distance! He wasn't a desperate man and looked as if he thought he had the world at his feet. But then these guys wonder why they only get casual relationships and no long-term, nice girls. As someone who wants serious relationships I wouldn't go for that approach. If I wanted a quick fumble, maybe I would.

I don't know any men who want girlfriends and can't get one, interestingly enough. The 'dating advice' is usually given for when they change their minds about the girls they want or they want one girl in particular and want to get it right.

Also, like I mentioned, a lot of men wouldn't look twice at me as I don't fulfil their criteria. I'm not an ugly girl but I'm not immune to getting remarks made on what they think falls short. If they were that desperate, presumably they'd be nice to me, just turn the light off and imagine I was Jennifer Lopez.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Women tend to give advice that would benefit women, not men. Part of this is lack of empathy for the male experience, and part of this is just general stupidity.

Another less common reason is ulterior motive or jealousy. When a women does not want you to succeed romantically with another woman, she will give self-defeating advice to a man.

[jezrael]

those topics are good to tackle and i have interest on such things. there is a site that makes the conversation of a certain topic worth to consume your time.try this one, https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewfor ... E6MA#gid=0

[ahardy57]

I have been lurking on this site for about two and a half months now, and thought I should post something here. I am not trying to please anyone here, just giving straight, sometimes hard answers.
1. We date another because of CHEMISTRY, usually. If we don't have chemistry, it's not going to work.
2. My choice in the opposite sex has a lot to do with my subconscious and years of programming. I go for a certain type because over the years, I have formed a type in my mind that I gravitate to. For me, only a small percentage of men fit this type. Each woman has her own prototype. The type then becomes a bias, an unconscious prejudice.

3. Women DO go by looks, and she will measure it with the subconscious image in her head.
(That's why, people tend to have dates that resemble each other.) Again, it might be unconscious.

I have dated men of different races, Asian, European, white American, and black. One was shorter than I and obese. One was bald. Two were penniless. Some were wealthy. Some were very handsome. Most were nice.

But at a certain point, if you fall in love, you no longer see UGLY. He really is transform into a prince.

Compatibility is what matters to me, because when the first two years of passion is cooled, it's good to have two persons who genuinely like each other.

Yea, I do prefer rich over poor, when I am dating. But not because i want material things. Women go for security. The longer they live the more they size a man up for what he can do to protect her from the harshness of living in a cold society, like the US. In the back of may women's mind is that she will end up homeless, a bag lady on the streets.
In another society where there are strong communities of caring families and support people, I will not mind going for the poor man. But if the poor man leaves me, I see parading images of my wretchedness in the corner of the street in winter.

I think a woman with a good nest egg, might not have this fear and not have this item in her agenda. At this point in my life, it makes sense to me to not marry a man who can't protect me.

I rather be alone than marry into a situation where I lose whatever security I do have. Hence, i am not married at the moment.

4. I have seen Asian men married to white American women, and they have good marriages, with children. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese men, but it wasn't spontaneous love, in the ones I know, but education and awareness of those cultures, and a change in their way of thinking.
American white women can change, but thy lack the milieu to change. They are not hardwired to only like a certain type. A lot of it is learnt.

When I am dressed up, men seem to be more aware of my presence. It's not what is said that amazes me, but the unsaid. Let's say, I am passing a construction site. The sudden silence as I appear, the surreptitious glances, the feeling that I am being checked out, Almost every man is tuned in to my approach, appearance. Some nervously stop to say "hi", others just glance, they just seem to forget themselves, one might go out of their way to be of assistance to me, a few will giggle nervously. I even feel that the way they work becomes like a 'watched object', acting differently almost to impress me. And THAT moment seemed to be charged for me and for them. My every action is observed and taken in like electricity.

I suspect that is what it is for lots of young women, and to them it may be overwhelming, even frightening. To some, it maybe flattering.

But at that point I act differently. I am more bold, hard, shield's up. It's automatic. I am aware of male power and my own female power. Subconsciously, I know one man can easily take me and rape me if he could. I am of another world, and they are fascinated by it.
Muscle power, testosterone, hormones, man's energy. I know it can obliterate me, just one of them. On one level i am frightened, on another level I am flattered by the attention. I am woman, I have less power than you, I think, but yet I can stop your work for a second.

If i respond to your approach, I might be seen as loose. I will be vulnerable. So I keep an emotional distance. But sometimes I subconsciously tease, because I am wired to respond to a man's attention. Teasing let's me interact, but yet stay at a safe distance. It's usually innocent for me, much like putting your hands in the lion's den and withdrawing it in time.

When i date, I go for the alpha male, because he will protect me, and he is something I am not. Gentle males make me feel insecure, because they are too much like me. All my life I have been looking for something that I am not. The alpha male can take care of me. Alpha males is what I look for. Gentle males, only if he will stand by me through thick and thin.

In short I go for richer, alpha, muscular, more intelligent and charming. Confidence is everything. He must care about me, but he must be able to control me. If he cannot care about me or be in charge, i don't want to know him.

Hope this helps.

If a man comes up to me, I put him through the test. Persevere, and prove that you can survive the test, and I'll let you in in my inner sanctum. If you are a gentle male, don't try to please me.

[ahardy57]

What I mean, if you are a gentle male, don't try to please me - it will work against you. I will not like you more. Give me some kindness, then tease and challenge me.

[NorthAmericanguy]

Plus they seem to have an overly rosy view of things in social arenas and give simplistic advice, whereas men tend to give more methodical and formulaic advice. Now I'm not saying that advice from men works either. It can be bad too, but at least it's not as rosy as the advice from women.

Women for the most part look at life in general from a rosy perspective. I'm often baffled that women seem to be completely unaware of the dangers that are all around them.

Hell, women don't even see the dangers around wearing scantly clad clothing, getting drunk, and prancing around in some night club full of strangers but yet they do this every weekend.

[NorthAmericanguy]

I have been lurking on this site for about two and a half months now, and thought I should post something here. I am not trying to please anyone here, just giving straight, sometimes hard answers.
1. We date another because of CHEMISTRY, usually. If we don't have chemistry, it's not going to work.
2. My choice in the opposite sex has a lot to do with my subconscious and years of programming. I go for a certain type because over the years, I have formed a type in my mind that I gravitate to. For me, only a small percentage of men fit this type. Each woman has her own prototype. The type then becomes a bias, an unconscious prejudice.

3. Women DO go by looks, and she will measure it with the subconscious image in her head.
(That's why, people tend to have dates that resemble each other.) Again, it might be unconscious.

I have dated men of different races, Asian, European, white American, and black. One was shorter than I and obese. One was bald. Two were penniless. Some were wealthy. Some were very handsome. Most were nice.

But at a certain point, if you fall in love, you no longer see UGLY. He really is transform into a prince.

Compatibility is what matters to me, because when the first two years of passion is cooled, it's good to have two persons who genuinely like each other.

Yea, I do prefer rich over poor, when I am dating. But not because i want material things. Women go for security. The longer they live the more they size a man up for what he can do to protect her from the harshness of living in a cold society, like the US. In the back of may women's mind is that she will end up homeless, a bag lady on the streets.
In another society where there are strong communities of caring families and support people, I will not mind going for the poor man. But if the poor man leaves me, I see parading images of my wretchedness in the corner of the street in winter.

I think a woman with a good nest egg, might not have this fear and not have this item in her agenda. At this point in my life, it makes sense to me to not marry a man who can't protect me.

I rather be alone than marry into a situation where I lose whatever security I do have. Hence, i am not married at the moment.

4. I have seen Asian men married to white American women, and they have good marriages, with children. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese men, but it wasn't spontaneous love, in the ones I know, but education and awareness of those cultures, and a change in their way of thinking.
American white women can change, but thy lack the milieu to change. They are not hardwired to only like a certain type. A lot of it is learnt.

When I am dressed up, men seem to be more aware of my presence. It's not what is said that amazes me, but the unsaid. Let's say, I am passing a construction site. The sudden silence as I appear, the surreptitious glances, the feeling that I am being checked out, Almost every man is tuned in to my approach, appearance. Some nervously stop to say "hi", others just glance, they just seem to forget themselves, one might go out of their way to be of assistance to me, a few will giggle nervously. I even feel that the way they work becomes like a 'watched object', acting differently almost to impress me. And THAT moment seemed to be charged for me and for them. My every action is observed and taken in like electricity.

I suspect that is what it is for lots of young women, and to them it may be overwhelming, even frightening. To some, it maybe flattering.

But at that point I act differently. I am more bold, hard, shield's up. It's automatic. I am aware of male power and my own female power. Subconsciously, I know one man can easily take me and rape me if he could. I am of another world, and they are fascinated by it.
Muscle power, testosterone, hormones, man's energy. I know it can obliterate me, just one of them. On one level i am frightened, on another level I am flattered by the attention. I am woman, I have less power than you, I think, but yet I can stop your work for a second.

If i respond to your approach, I might be seen as loose. I will be vulnerable. So I keep an emotional distance. But sometimes I subconsciously tease, because I am wired to respond to a man's attention. Teasing let's me interact, but yet stay at a safe distance. It's usually innocent for me, much like putting your hands in the lion's den and withdrawing it in time.

When i date, I go for the alpha male, because he will protect me, and he is something I am not. Gentle males make me feel insecure, because they are too much like me. All my life I have been looking for something that I am not. The alpha male can take care of me. Alpha males is what I look for. Gentle males, only if he will stand by me through thick and thin.

In short I go for richer, alpha, muscular, more intelligent and charming. Confidence is everything. He must care about me, but he must be able to control me. If he cannot care about me or be in charge, i don't want to know him.

Hope this helps.

If a man comes up to me, I put him through the test. Persevere, and prove that you can survive the test, and I'll let you in in my inner sanctum. If you are a gentle male, don't try to please me.

That was a good post whoever you are lady.^^

One thing about the gentle males however, I think women today make the terrible mistake of thinking that a kind man is not manly enough.

I understand that a woman wants a MAN, but many women falsely assume that the guy with the most tattoos, and is the most violent and unrefined is the most manly, and that's just not true.

A lot of women's values, sad to say, come from Hollywood. Women in the remote past certainly did not go for "bad boys" as classified as men who did there own thing, broke rules and cultural tradition, and treated people like S$$.

Most women went for men who demonstrated the ability to feed their families, and demonstrated that they were familiar with cultural tradition. The only thing close to a bad body in the past was the warrior class, or the military class, and even these men I don't consider them to be "badboys" because they still had integrity because they fought to the death for their homeland/leader.

[BellaRuth]

Yea, I do prefer rich over poor, when I am dating. But not because i want material things. Women go for security. The longer they live the more they size a man up for what he can do to protect her from the harshness of living in a cold society, like the US. In the back of may women's mind is that she will end up homeless, a bag lady on the streets.
In another society where there are strong communities of caring families and support people, I will not mind going for the poor man. But if the poor man leaves me, I see parading images of my wretchedness in the corner of the street in winter.

I found this really interesting.

I never have homelessness in the back of my mind because yes- I have a family. I have a mother and three older sisters who would look after me, and failing that, friends that would take me in. So how rich my boyfriend is is irrelevant unless I wanted trinkets and luxuries.

I do think American mindset encourages women to stick to rich guys, however. I'm reminded of an American girl I overheard talking about engagement rings to her friend. 'I'm expensive as hell!' (meaning her chap would have tp pay out loads or, presumably, he would be insulting her.) Americans like flashiness, wealth, chasing dreams and rainbows and catching stars. They think they can do anything and deserve everything and the universe is within their grasp if they just believe! It seems if an American girl settles for a poor man she is sending the message to her friends that she has given up on herself, she's not chasing that American dream, and they like to tell her she's worth more, to get a more successful guy?

Even an American man once told me that if I get engaged I should notice the worth of the ring as however much the man spent was a direct indication of how much an 'investment' I was- with the implication that I should kick him to the curb if he was trying to fool me into accepting a less expensive ring. Oh thanks- so I'm measured by money now, not love?

No other place, even Western, has this unique concoction of values.

[Winston]

Hi ahardy, those are interesting insights. Women are on a different wavelength I guess.

Where are you from? How did you find this site?

And what do you conider an "alpha male"? A guy who has it all, looks, height and money, coupled with confidence and charisma? Those guys are the hardest to get.

What advice would you give to men who want to attract more women, besides going abroad of course?