Utopian Economics

[Cornfed]

It seems that all empires eventually get around to setting up efficient centralized resource distribution systems with massive labor redundancy. It theory, this should be a good thing, since it should lead to increasing prosperity and leisure. In practice it leads to cultural collapse by allowing all the power to go to elite men controlling the system while rendering other men socially obsolete. Feminism and other pathologies are a natural byproduct of this.

It would be good if the economy could be structured so as to rely on and reward ordinary, decent men for their individual efforts, rather that being an essentially communist rationing system controlled by the sadists at the top. However, you would also want to allow for technological increase and increasing leisure. I'm not sure if that is possible given the lack of economies of scale, but maybe it might become so with emergent technologies such as 3Dprinting and fuel cells. Does anyone have any ideas of know where this issue is discussed?

If such restructuring is not feasible then I guess the only hope is collapse ASAP, dieoff and restructuring civilization at a lower level. Anything is better than a continuation of the current dystopia.

[fschmidt]

There is virtually no intelligent discussion on any topic anywhere; the world is just dysfunctional today.

At one time slavery was widely accepted. Now we consider it immoral. But employment isn't really that different from slavery. Slavery is owning a person, employment is renting a person. Both are immoral for the same reason. The only way to prevent concentration of economic power is to ban employment. The result would be that the only form of business would be worker cooperatives. Worker cooperatives could take passive investment, as in non-voting shareholders. This allows investment geniuses like Buffett to allocate capital effectively. But no one should be allowed to buy voting shares because this is using money to buy power over other people. Such a system would allow economies of scale without concentrating economic power.

[Cornfed]

At one time slavery was widely accepted. Now we consider it immoral. But employment isn't really that different from slavery. Slavery is owning a person, employment is renting a person. Both are immoral for the same reason.

It seems to me that most modern employment is much worse than chattel slavery because most chattel slaves were valuable assets that warranted their owners' care and attention, whereas modern employees are generally disposable. The reason that they are not simply enslaved is that there is no-where for them to go anyway so there is no need to go to the expense of confining them.

The only way to prevent concentration of economic power is to ban employment. The result would be that the only form of business would be worker cooperatives. Worker cooperatives could take passive investment, as in non-voting shareholders. This allows investment geniuses like Buffett to allocate capital effectively. But no one should be allowed to buy voting shares because this is using money to buy power over other people. Such a system would allow economies of scale without concentrating economic power.

Banning employment (which would have to be strictly defined), a tax on economic assets, non-recognition of corporate status except for specific projects, a Georgian-style land rent tax, obviously the end of fractional reserve banking etc. would all help swing the balance in favor of the little guy. I'm just not so sure how such as system would pan out in competition with current systems.

[fschmidt]

I'm just not so sure how such as system would pan out in competition with current systems.

I think it could do quite well. The progressive (non-liberal) movement in America after the Civil War promoted sound policies including worker cooperatives. Unsurprisingly, all this came to an end at around the same time that liberalism took off. Here is a good history of worker cooperatives:

http://www.red-coral.net/WorkCoops.html

Also I recommend:



Both are written by Leftists. Modern conservatives are morons who don't understand populism, or are corporate tools.

In the end, I still think religion is the key. As long as religion is sound, economics and politics head in the right direction. When religion fails to give the common man basic morality, everything else is lost.