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True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage

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True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage

Postby Winston » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:25 am

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True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage
By Winston Wu (Founder of HappierAbroad.com)


Hi all,
I am having a bizarre mid life crisis and wondering if anyone else can relate.

I have realized that what truly makes me happy is near total freedom, that is, the freedom to get up and do whatever you want everyday and go wherever you want without restriction or control from others. To me, that is the real measure of freedom. If you don't have that, then you aren't free, regardless of what your government or culture tells you, or what political freedoms you officially have, or what your Constitution/Bill of Rights says.

But the thing is, everything society encourages you to attain go AGAINST that - jobs, marriage, kids, house mortgages, - all these things tie you down, enslave you, and take away your freedom. They hammer you with responsibilities and lock you into a routine and geographic location, so that you can't just get up anytime and go wherever you want. They are the antithesis to travel, freedom and adventure. So in that sense, the true freedom I want goes against everything that society teaches about "normal life".

As you know, society teaches that one is supposed to strive to attain a stable job, and then a stable marriage in order to raise a family. But all these things tie you down and lock you into a monotonous routine of commitment in one place around the same people for long-term. Yet society teaches that without these things, you are empty and incomplete. So in effect, what society is saying is that unless you bind yourself into enslavement to others, you are empty and incomplete.

Most people simply follow all this and don't question it. In doing so, they never realize the obvious - that there is so much to see in the world - which any avid traveler will tell you - so to follow the role model life that society teaches you is to miss out on a lot on what the world has to offer: endless exciting adventures, places, events, people and love affairs that you can experience.

But society and government do not define freedom the way I do. Instead, they define freedom as not being under a foreign dictatorship (though a local one is ok) and as the "freedom to work" (voluntary enslavement). Both cultures in my background - American and Taiwanese - define freedom in this way, and both teach that one should "live to work" and that free time is idle.

In America, for example, the culture claims that you are free because the country is not under a direct dictatorship (though that seems to be changing), and you are allowed to vote in a farce called an election (controlled by two parties that represent the same interests but trick the public into thinking that they are different by arguing about senseless social wedge issues), and you are "free to work and choose your occupation" of course. In other words, "free to choose your voluntary enslavement." This concept assumes that work is all you want to do til you drop, so that by working, you are doing exactly what you want, and thus you are "free". And in Taiwan, people are told that they are free because Mainland China is not ruling them, so their country is independent and they are "free to work". Thus, the true freedom I talk about is frowned upon. They only emphasize political freedoms, which are a facade, rather than true freedom.

However, this definition of freedom has nothing to do with waking up and doing whatever you want each day without someone or something controlling you - such as your boss, spouse, kids, schedule, culture, society, finances, government, peers, etc. Nor does it have anything to do with being free from "being tied down" into binding commitments or being "free to roam" without restriction. Instead, society conditions you to WANT to be tied down with responsibilities and remain in one location for the long run. But if you follow that, you lose your freedom and become enslaved to a monotonous and binding routine.

That just doesn't make sense to me. Why would anyone want to be enslaved or imprisoned? It seems like an upside-down bizarro world to me. Yet society conditions you to feel empty and incomplete without these basic things that tie you down and take away your freedom. Thus, in effect, you are "trained to feel empty and incomplete without enslavement". That's just crazy, but that's the way it is.

You gotta understand that society is not there to give you freedom. It is there to maintain order and structure, and to CONTROL and ENSLAVE you by conditioning you to accept commitment, obligation, routine and enslavement. It doesn't give a rat's a** about your freedom. Its job is to "herd the cattle" (us) and will lie, propagandize, use mind control, and create false illusions in order to do that. So, it may tell you that you're free, but it won't give you freedom. This is why everything seems to be upside down, and why what society tells you is usually the opposite of the truth.

Most people don't think about or question such basic things. They simply assume that what everyone else is doing is normal and right, and that majority = right and conformity = security. They don't question things, but believe whatever they are told by their society, religion, media, government, and follow whatever most people around them believe. Therefore, most people are not truth seekers, freethinkers or true skeptics - such people are in a tiny minority.

For more info, see this video about the story of your enslavement:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A[/youtube]

So am I crazy or insane, or is society really an enslavement system that uses mind control to keep you in it, as the conspiracy/counter-culture crowd claim?

Does anyone else feel the same way? Why is everything I want the opposite of what society teaches and expects of us? Does that mean there is something wrong with me?

From my vantage point, here is why all the things that society teaches you to strive for takes away your freedom and greatly impedes it:

1) Job/Employment - A job basically enslaves you to servitude within a private dictatorship exchange for financial compensation. Working for someone else means you have to conform to a strict schedule - waking up at a certain time, eating at a certain time, and getting off at a certain time - while being in a position where you are constantly judged and evaluated by your performance. And of course, it locks you into a specific geographic location so that you can't travel (unless you are lucky enough to have a job that pays you to travel).

Thus, when you have a regular job, you cannot just wake up and say, "I feel like going to the beach today" or "I will go visit my parents today and spend some quality time with them" or "I will stay home and spend quality time with my kids today" or "I will sleep in and have a nice big breakfast when I wake up". Instead, you have to wait for the weekend to be "free", so technically, you are only free 1 or 2 days out of 7 days a week, which means that 70 percent of your week is spent in servitude! (and during the weekend, you are tied down by your spouse and kids)

So how can you call that freedom? It doesn't make any sense! But of course, we are all slaves to money so we have to work. So sadly, true freedom in this world requires financial independence and either lots of money or a steady flow of it. Therefore, it is best to find a way to work for yourself (ideally in a way that doesn't tie you to one location everyday, such as a portable business, internet based business or other form of residual income).

The movie "Office Space" (1999) accurately depicts the reality of the lifeless drudgery of working for most companies. I recommend seeing it if you haven't already. Someone in my forum gave this great analogy:

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=11397
"That is why I refuse to work for someone else. I offer this analogy -- would you rather be tied to a tree but fed on a consistent basis? Or would you want to be free, without bounds or restrictions, and go out and hunt on your own?"

2) Marriage - When you get married, you vow to be faithful to your spouse for the rest of your life. Therefore, you are NOT free to meet a new person of the opposite sex to have a romantic love affair with. You are not free to get together with another that you fancy. You will never experience the novelty and passion of a new attractive lover, ever again (that is, if you honor your marriage vows). You can never take a trip to an exotic land, make eye contact with an attractive stranger of the opposite sex, and make sparks from there (like you see in the movies).

Therefore, you are "not free" to pursue any other fish in the sea. You are tied and bound to one person for life, until you die. And if you get tired or bored of your monogamous relationship, or regret it, there's nothing you can do about it. You are artificially bound for life, "til death do you part". Sure you can get divorced. But marriage is supposed to be for life. Divorce is seen as a dysfunctional aberration - as a "failed marriage".

And of course, unless your spouse is a traveling hippie, he/she will expect you to settle down in a house together, and work a job to pay for the house, and then have children too - all of which will further tie you down to one place and one routine for the long-term, completely destroying your freedom for good and "locking you up in multiple chains". There's no denying that.

Furthermore, many men have reported losing most of their assets in divorce settlements, because Western courts tend to be heavily biased in favor of women and hand over most of the couple's property to the woman, even if she didn't earn it. So these men end up getting "ass-raped" in divorce court. Therefore, marriage is very risky to a man, who stands to lose his assets if it doesn't go as planned, whereas the woman loses nothing and gains a lot. All this is heavily documented on sites like NoMarriage.com and even my own forum at HappierAbroad.com. In fact, as Tom Leykis, radio show host and men's rights advocate, argues, marriage has no benefit or advantage for a man. It only protects the woman and lets her take assets if she chooses to take advantage of it.

Also, the concept of marriage is illogical, unrealistic and unwise. Love cannot be forced or tied down by a mere contract. And one cannot swear an oath to love only one person for the rest of one's life, anymore than one can swear to like only vanilla ice cream for life. I mean, what if you get tired of your spouse, or love another person, or need the novelty of a new lover, or regret your binding lifetime commitment? What are you going to do then? Society FAILS to take this into account, but instead is eager to enslave you into another routine and commitment, which is its function. Remember that society is there to control and enslave you, not to free you. That's its job.

"A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he is finished." - Zsa Zsa Gabor

For more on why marriage is a scam, see these ten reasons:
http://www.nomarriage.com/top-ten-reaso ... t-married/

3) Children - Contrary to the man made myth that "children are sacred and precious", children essentially are a commitment to a 20 year UNPAID job. In this unpaid job, you must give everything - money, time, stress, freedom, etc. and get virtually NOTHING in return. All your time, energy, resources and freedom are SUCKED out of you, with no return on investment. It's the most illogical thing, yet we are brainwashed by society and perhaps Mother Nature to want children, in order that the human species can continue.

When you have children, oh boy, are you in for it. You will get more than you bargained for. You will constantly be drained emotionally, financially and time-wise. And you will be constantly annoyed and stressed with their behavioral problems, conflicts and demands. It will drive you crazy and you will often regret it. And for putting up with all that, you get NOTHING in return - no profit, no fun, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, no pleasure, no reward, nothing. Overall, you will lose a lot in your life to raise a child for 20 years, but gain nothing. It's "all pain and no gain". Kids will also enslave you by turning you into their servant. They are the equivalent of having a ball and chain tied to your ankle everyday without payment or reward (except an emotional one).

Now think about it. Would any business accept a deal where they would have endure years of trouble, annoyances, and costs, in return for no reward, profit or gain? Of course not. Never. So why then do parents accept such a deal when it comes to children? Obviously, it must be because society and Mother Nature programs them to feel some kind of "emptiness" without children in order to perpetuate the species.

In fact, you will feel like a servant to your children. Do you remember when you were a child, how you saw your parents as "existing solely to serve you"? Well your children are going to see you the same way, as being there to serve them. So you become a servant to these little twerps and they become your masters. You can forget about doing what's best for you or following your dreams, cause you don't matter anymore. Your life is gone and you exist solely for your kids now... well according to society that is.

In a sense, when you have children, you "commit suicide", figuratively speaking, and give up your life, so that you no longer live for yourself, but for them. They become the center of your life and your reason for living. And you are at their beck and control. None of your ambitions, goals, dreams, needs or desires matter anymore, according to society. This will be especially difficult if YOU were a spoiled attention seeking child yourself. And on TV, you are supposed to say:

"My children mean the world to me. There isn't anything I wouldn't do for them, including giving up my own life for them. I wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice my life to save them."

I've never understood why people always say that on TV. It's such a cliche. Why would anyone become so self-sacrificing and willing to die, forgoing their survival instinct? I sure wouldn't. You do not owe your kids your life. You only owe them your support. In fact, it is YOU who gave them life, so they OWE you their life and ought to be willing to die for YOU. Thus, society has it backwards. So why don't people say, "I wouldn't hesitate to give my life to save my parents?"

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thank you for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years and resources.

Thus, children are the ultimate SCAM of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad and incur condemnation from society and others. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

To visit an online community about child free living, see: http://www.thechildfreelife.com

4) Mortgage/Home - Unless you are wealthy enough to buy up a house or inherit one, you will usually have to make mortgage payments on one, which means you become a LONG-TERM DEBT SLAVE, for decades probably. For most Americans, this is the biggest monthly expense. And in order to finance it, you will have to get a job and keep it. This will make you a slave both to the mortgage and to your job, tying you down long-term to a specific location as well. This means you are NOT free for travel, adventure or exploration.

And you will have to contend with regular cleaning and maintenance cost/labor associated with owning a home too. As they say, "Owning a home is like having a stone tied around your neck."

In addition, if you get married and have kids, it will normally lead to settling down in a home, which requires the servitude of employment to pay off - all of which results in your life being completely controlled by others, in total enslavement to obligation, duty and responsibility.

Now, if you are financially independent or can pay your mortgage without having to submit to employment, then this may not be as big of an issue for you. But for most Americans, this is their biggest monthly expense, and the reason they have to work. Other expenses in life, such as food, clothing, etc. are more malleable.

But of course, having a home to come home to is a wonderful thing. Many eventually discover that it is best to own a small cozy home in a nice area that requires the least amount of maintenance. That seems to be the ideal situation, and most easily achieved in foreign countries where homes are far more affordable than in the USA.

Each of the above take away your freedom. But if you have all four of them - living the typical life so to speak - you might as well just forget about any freedom, as you're pretty much finished. You might as well be in jail. You have zero freedom, regardless of what your Constitution or Bill of Rights says, as all that is meaningless since you have no freedom anyway.

Now, it is extremely difficult to be truly free from all four of the above binding areas of life. And it would take money and passive income too. But if you can free yourself from even two of the four, you will experience a lot more freedom than most people do. And that in itself would be a monumental achievement.

Conclusion:

So you see, all the major things above that society conditions you to want and need - jobs, marriage, children and mortgages - take away and destroy your freedom. Each one of them decreases your personal freedom, but all of them combined completely decimate your freedom for sure - by my standards that is. Yet you are supposed to feel empty and incomplete if you don't have these areas of life locking you down into monotonous routine and responsibility. That's what doesn't make sense. It's so weird. How can society be so upside-down?

Does anyone else feel the same way? Is there something wrong with me? This is what I struggle with everyday now.

Yet most people conform to society, striving for the major things above, and measuring their success by them, even though they completely take away one's freedom. It's so bizarre, like the Twilight Zone.

All of my Taiwanese cousins and family friends of my generation, for example, completely conform to what society teaches. They became doctors and engineers, or have a career in business. They have no free time, work at a stressful job each day, and come home to a nice house in a nice car. Their lives are complete routines with stable families. They make a lot of money, far more than I do of course, but unlike me, they do NOT have the freedom or luxury of getting up everyday and doing whatever they want. No siree. Plus they are bound to their spouses and children, and cannot just go out and have fun, meet new people and lovers, or explore the world per their heart's desire. Yet they are living exactly the way society has taught them to, without questioning it like I do.

So should I envy them, or should they envy me?

On the other hand, I have nearly become nearly financially independent by working for myself and establishing passive incomes through my websites (HappierAbroad.com and others). I only make enough to pay my basic expenses since I live in a third world country where cost of living is much lower than in the US (as long as I live frugally). But the important thing is that when I get up everyday, I am able to do whatever I want, and as I said, to me that's the true measure of freedom. Plus I can go out and meet cute girls whenever I want. See here for what I mean: http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Collage.htm

Currently, I am working on increasing my passive income. I have not gotten married (for the reasons above), but I do have a girlfriend and son, which I support. But still, I do not wish to turn my life into a routine to become a good stable parent, for my ambition now is to travel before I get old. There are so many experiences that I want to have, so many cultures I want to experience, and interesting people to meet. So I am dealing with the dilemma of being a proper parent vs. being able to travel freely, like I used to. Adventure is what makes me tick, not routine. I don't believe in getting married and locked down just to raise a child, as society teaches. Some may be outraged that I would say that, but I cannot compromise my beliefs and freedom for anyone, even my child, and I refuse to suffer and be miserable for 20 years just to be a "proper parent". That may not be what people want to hear, but that's the truth, and I cannot change who I am to fit what people want to hear. I'd rather be hated by everyone yet still retain my freedom, than suffer everyday and lose all my freedom just to appease everyone. I know for sure that I'd regret the latter much more than the former. That's how important freedom is to me.

So anyway, at this point, I have realized what truly makes me happy, what I live for, and what makes me tick. Yet all of it is contrary to what society teaches and to what other people my age do.

How do I make sense out of this, and not feel like there's something wrong with me? Why am I different than everyone else? Can any of you relate?

So what am I advocating? That one should become a traveling hippie/nomad? Sure, if that's what makes you happy. Why not? There are many people out there living that way who are happy and fulfilled, and living richer freer lives. And if you go out and live that way, you will meet many of them. But of course, you will never hear about them from the mainstream media, which encourages you to be a workaholic conformist. But if you live the life of a perpetual traveler, you will meet many such wonderful types, and you will be surprised that their lives seem far richer and freer than the typical conformists of mainstream society. It will open doors that you never thought existed. Once you experience it, you won't want to go back. Those who have know what I mean.

I think the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what you are told about freedom by your government, culture or society - all they spew out is "cattle control propaganda". Unless you are doing what your heart desires and following your bliss, you do not have true freedom. So ultimately, the most important thing is to follow your heart and bliss with dedication and passion - regardless of what society tells you, what your family thinks, or how others judge you. As the saying goes, "Do what you love. The money will follow." That's the way to truly live.

I hope I've given you something to think about.

Recommended Books

There is a guy I know named Walt Goodridge who is very good at helping people turn their passion into profit to become self-employed. You can see his website, books, articles and interviews at PassionProfit.com To help you learn how to free your mind and life, overcome the social programming traps and false assumptions ingrained into you, I highly recommend the late Harry Browne's ebook "How I Found True Freedom in an Unfree World." You can get it from HarryBrowne.org.

See Also:

How to be Free and Conscious in a Society of Enslavement and Fear
http://www.happierabroad.com/Awakening.htm
Last edited by Winston on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 21 times in total.
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Postby odbo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:15 am

It's good that you're expressing yourself but you still have a lot of learning to do. I still think you're deceiving yourself. The only freedom you currently know is the desire to live like a degenerate. Life is more complicated than one word. You can't just pick an arbitrary concept and get carried away with it. Why is 'freedom' above any other?

You could still have freedom to move where you want with a wife and children. You can also have the freedom of living by yourself in a desert cave. It seems what you want is the freedom to take advantage of underprivileged ladies, the freedom of instant gratification and the freedom of not having any convictions or purpose.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9rod5PaMBM[/youtube]
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Postby ladislav » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:26 am

You just need enough money to do what you want, that's all. Work on a business that makes 10K a month or go to Saudi, slave away for a couple of years, then travel like I did.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:07 am

ladislav wrote:You just need enough money to do what you want, that's all. Work on a business that makes 10K a month or go to Saudi, slave away for a couple of years, then travel like I did.


That's one way of doing it. So did what I write about marriage and children confirm your decision not to have either of them?

Did you want marriage and kids before? If so, was it because society programmed that desire into you?
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Postby ladislav » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:50 pm

Did you want marriage and kids before? If so, was it because society programmed that desire into you?


It was just an natural urge to breed. And be with someone you love. But then I discovered that I could love many people at the same time. I think most men would if they were in that situation. Sheiks and old kings all had multiple wives and happy families. They had no mortages to pay or salaries to worry about. I guess that is the situation most men would like to be in.
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Postby Fenix » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:04 pm

Pointless thread when you are the one with a child and a girlfriend that you have been with for almost 5 years. So, you are what you hate, Winston. You do not have true freedom since you do have a child and a job. You would have true freedom if you did not have a child. Can't turn back the hands of time.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:48 pm

Phoenix wrote:Pointless thread when you are the one with a child and a girlfriend that you have been with for almost 5 years. So, you are what you hate, Winston. You do not have true freedom since you do have a child and a job. You would have true freedom if you did not have a child. Can't turn back the hands of time.


It is not pointless since what I wrote is technically accurate, right?

I have a child, but not the other three. So if I'm free 3/4 then I'm 75 percent free :) Freedom is all about degrees. Why are you so narrow minded?

Besides, as long as I support my child, Dianne doesn't care where I go, so in that sense I do have a degree of freedom too.

Stop using things against me. My message is accurate and logical.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:49 pm

odbo wrote:It's good that you're expressing yourself but you still have a lot of learning to do. I still think you're deceiving yourself. The only freedom you currently know is the desire to live like a degenerate. Life is more complicated than one word. You can't just pick an arbitrary concept and get carried away with it. Why is 'freedom' above any other?

You could still have freedom to move where you want with a wife and children. You can also have the freedom of living by yourself in a desert cave. It seems what you want is the freedom to take advantage of underprivileged ladies, the freedom of instant gratification and the freedom of not having any convictions or purpose.


Huh? Still, what I wrote is technically accurate and true right? That's what matters, accuracy and truth. If not, where is my logic flawed? I'm talking about real flaws, not imaginary subjective ones.
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Postby Fenix » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:56 pm

Winston wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Pointless thread when you are the one with a child and a girlfriend that you have been with for almost 5 years. So, you are what you hate, Winston. You do not have true freedom since you do have a child and a job. You would have true freedom if you did not have a child. Can't turn back the hands of time.


It is not pointless since what I wrote is technically accurate, right?

I have a child, but not the other three. So if I'm free 3/4 then I'm 75 percent free :) Freedom is all about degrees. Why are you so narrow minded?

Besides, as long as I support my child, Dianne doesn't care where I go, so in that sense I do have a degree of freedom too.

Stop using things against me. My message is accurate and logical.


What you said is accurate and well-written, but you don't have true freedom, according to your definition.
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Postby jamesbond » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:46 pm

It would be great to be truly free, that means being finacially independent. If you have enough money to live on, you don't have to work and can do whatever you want with your life. Why do you think people look forward to retirement so much? :D

Until you become "free" you are slave to a job that you probably don't like. I think it's time I bought some more lottery tickets! :D
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Postby well-informed » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:17 pm

Lol you're not truly free Winston. How are you free when you're financially supporting a son you call a "twerp" ?

That shambles your whole argument right there. A little human being is dependant on your support. So you have are by definition NOT truly free.

Also how are you 75% free? ..... lol that doesn't even make sense. Thats so stupid and illogical to say. That would mean that you're free 18 hrs of the day and your unfree 6 hrs out of the day. Next you're going to tell me your fat 75% of the time too haha. You're either free or you're not... and you're obviously not (you still have to support the twerp)

Very few people in this world are "truly free" as you say, that's life for ya. We all need money, otherwise we'd be homeless. So must of us have to be dependant on capital, even if it takes away our freedom. I think you're not getting it Winston, re-read what linux posted
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Postby onezero4u » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:36 am

godam you write long post sometimes Winston!!

what i read made perfect sense...

however, total freedom is illusionary, if you want to be free of a job...you better be born into a rich-ass family with generous parents...or else you have to live off the land or handouts...both of which are time and energy intensive.

youre best bet is to stay single & childless and get a good paying job overseas which you like...then travel around when you can
marriage is a 3 ring circus: engagement ring, wedding ring and then suffering.
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Postby momopi » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:03 am

In this world there are people who are grass, tree, and cloud. A grass will not be happy as a cloud, and a cloud will not be happy as grass. Figure out what you want to be and go live your life accordingly. Being money rich and time poor is not happiness, neither is rotting on your couch like an old potato. Be thankful that there are people who wake up every day at 8am and go to work, without them you wouldn't have running water from the tap, electricity from the outlet, and airplanes at the airport.

Traditionally, marriage is a cultural product that gave men exclusive sexual access to his wife (or wives or concubines), and assurance that any children born from the union are his. From the women's perspective, marriage means protection of her children's rights under legitimacy law. Up until the 1970s, common law still dictated that only legitimate children could inherit their fathers' estates. Illegitimate children born outside of wedlock wasn't just a social stigma, there are financial consequences for the children later. But times changed, laws changed, and the rest is history. If you get married today, you're more likely to marry into debt instead of assets or dowry.

On subject of mortgages, many people have difficulty seeing their home (roof over head) as a liability. Americans are horrible at saving money, and some justify their mortgage as "savings" by putting equity into their homes, so they can use it for retirement later. Well, if people got 15 year fixed rate loans and paid them off, I'd agree with that statement. But that's not reality. The reality is that most buyers get 30 year loans, refi them after x number of years, and sell their homes and move to another one before paying off the loan. On a 30-year loan, 90% of your payment in year 1 goes toward loan interest to the bank, only ~10% goes toward equity (!). So if you made $10,000 worth of payments to your bank, the bank keeps $9,000 in interst for themselves (of which you get a tax deduction), and only $1,000 goes into the equity in year #1 of a 30-year loan. Does that sound like savings to you?

If you follow Robert Kiyosaki's cash flow ideology, most material things that cost $ are liabilities, and only those generating a profit are assets. So your home with a mortgage cost you money and is a liability, vs an investment property that generates positive cashflow is an asset. Mortgages can be a tool toward passive income, but only if you buy a cash-flow positive investment property. If you bought a house with 30-year loan & monthly payment of $700, and was able to rent the house out for $1,200 per month, you're doing well. Over time the rent will go up, but your 30-year fixed rate loan payment will stay the same.

The first condo that I bought more than 10 years ago has a 30-year fixied rate loan payment of $980/month (P+I), back in 2001 I rented it out to a tenant for $1250/month. Today in 2011, I can rent the condo out for $1500-$1,600/month. However, factoring in property taxes, property management fees, HOA fees (>$200/mo), etc., it's still not a very profitable purchase. I've learned since and the properties that I buy today are all SFR's with no HOA or very low HOA (~$50/mo), and much better cash flow.

Back during the RE bubble era, it was difficult to impossible for many to save enough to afford property. But the market as crash and is still going down. Today older 3/2 SFR's in California along the I-15 can be had in the low $100,000's. If you work hard in the US and save $, you can afford to buy such properties for investment. It's far less risky than giving your life savings to your friends with get-rich-quick (TM) schemes. It's difficult to make sufficient RE passive cashflow in the US to offset all your expenses IF you live in expensive areas like Southern CA or Paris -- it's much harder to secure a mortgage from the bank today than before. But your passive income comes in handy supplementing your regular income, and if you choose to move to a cheaper place, you can probably exit the rat race early and retire.

On question of ethics as a property investor, you should not forget that you're profiting at the expense of others on something that is fundamental to living -- shelter. Someone else is working hard M-F 8am-5pm and sending you a rent check every month, while you sit on your a** playing video games. Be nice to your tenant and know that it cost more to get a new tenant than the small sum you might gain from raising rent -- raise the rent upfront with a new tenant and not the existing one if possible. As an investor, you can also have a positive role in the local community by purchasing fixer uppers and rehabilitating properties.

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/
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Postby Winston » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:09 pm

Phoenix wrote:
Winston wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Pointless thread when you are the one with a child and a girlfriend that you have been with for almost 5 years. So, you are what you hate, Winston. You do not have true freedom since you do have a child and a job. You would have true freedom if you did not have a child. Can't turn back the hands of time.


It is not pointless since what I wrote is technically accurate, right?

I have a child, but not the other three. So if I'm free 3/4 then I'm 75 percent free :) Freedom is all about degrees. Why are you so narrow minded?

Besides, as long as I support my child, Dianne doesn't care where I go, so in that sense I do have a degree of freedom too.

Stop using things against me. My message is accurate and logical.


What you said is accurate and well-written, but you don't have true freedom, according to your definition.


Well I'm glad we agree philosophically at least.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear to you. Or you misunderstood me. Let me put things in perspective. Sure, with a child, I have less freedom than I otherwise would. But not by much. You see, Filipinas don't care if the father is not around, as long as he supports the child. Therefore, I can still do what I want, as long as I give a little support (it's not much). My son is not in my apartment most of the week, so I am free in that I do not have him clinging to me and he does not hold down my life or prevent me from doing what I want everyday. Do you understand?

Dianne is the one that has lost her freedom, because the kid is clinging onto her 24/7, and won't even let her go to the bathroom alone. She's the one he's addicted to. If I'm not around, the kid asks about me occasionally, but he doesn't suffer if he doesn't see me. But Dianne is going to Korea anyway. She badly misses her freedom and regrets having a child too.

Of course, I could be an a-hole and not support him at all and just disappear. Then I'd have my total freedom. But I don't need to do that. It's not costing me much to support him, and he is not around me most of the time, so my time is not really compromised by him. He is not inhibiting my freedom everyday. Actually, the many ailments I have in AC are inhibiting my freedom far more than my son is.

I know an expat here in AC who claims to have tons of kids with girls here. He says that he supports none of them, and gets away with it. He has total freedom, even though he has tons of kids, a lot more than I do. But of course, he is an a-hole and is proud to be one. (those are the types of guys that live here I guess lol) So you see, lots of guys who have kids find a way to retain their freedom. Some do it by being a-holes. Others find a compromise. But the point is, it's possible. I don't have to be an a-hole though. Like I explained, Filipinas are pretty cool with the father not being around, as long as he supports the kid. The good thing about Filipinas is that they are not strict or anal about such things. Thus, I do not have to live the life of a traditional father here and give up my freedom to become a servant to my child. No way.

My friend Robert in Czech Republic, whom I told you all about before, is now broken up with the mother of his kid, who was born around the same time mine was. The thing is, he only sees his son once a week, and he helps support him too. The rest of the week, he is TOTALLY FREE to do whatever he wants - play in his band, party, teach English, etc. So you see, even though he has a kid, he still has freedom 6 days a week (besides his job of course).

So you see, there are ways that a father can have a kid, yet still be relatively free.

Does that make sense? Do you understand my point now?
Last edited by Winston on Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:38 pm

well-informed wrote:Lol you're not truly free Winston. How are you free when you're financially supporting a son you call a "twerp" ?

That shambles your whole argument right there. A little human being is dependant on your support. So you have are by definition NOT truly free.

Also how are you 75% free? ..... lol that doesn't even make sense. Thats so stupid and illogical to say. That would mean that you're free 18 hrs of the day and your unfree 6 hrs out of the day. Next you're going to tell me your fat 75% of the time too haha. You're either free or you're not... and you're obviously not (you still have to support the twerp)

Very few people in this world are "truly free" as you say, that's life for ya. We all need money, otherwise we'd be homeless. So must of us have to be dependant on capital, even if it takes away our freedom. I think you're not getting it Winston, re-read what linux posted


See my long explanation to Phoenix above. Even if I am not truly free, my essay still makes sense and is accurate, does it not? I am making a philosophical case for true freedom in this essay, not bragging about my life. Do you understand? Or do you have a sick need to twist everything into an attack?

When I said 75 percent free, it was just an arbitrary percentage, because I meant that I am free of 3 out of the 4 main areas above, hence the 75 percent.

This is not about being 100 percent free vs. 100 percent unfree. Why are you so black and white? Dude your basic intelligence is in doubt. I don't think you belong here if I have to explain every simple thing to you that you should be able to deduce on your own. What's your IQ?

I said there were DEGREES of freedom. You might be tied down by a job, but you might be free in other areas. The essay above said that the less of the four enslaving areas of life that you have, the freer you are, and vice versa. It's all about degrees, the higher degree the better. I am free of 3 out of 4, which means I am freer than most people are. So why don't you give me credit for that? If you were truly objective and balanced, you would. So obviously you are not. You are just looking to argue and fight and pick on me.

Compare me to my Taiwanese cousins for instance (which I mentioned in the essay). They have zero freedom. They are completely bound and enslaved by all four areas of life described in the essay. They have far less freedom than me, even though they have a lot more money. However, they are "happy slaves" who don't really care about freedom. They feel safety and security in their routine, employment, family and assets, which are what matters most to them. They are happy doing what society says. They do not question things or seek some "truth" beyond what society says. All that matters to them are practical things. Typical Asian and Anglo thinking.

Yes it is hard to be truly free in life. That is the tragedy. You gotta strive for it if you really want it. But what I stated in the essay is still accurate, is it not, that the four areas of life that society conditions you to need - employment, marriage, children, and house mortgages, TAKE AWAY your freedom, tie you down, and enslave you. Agreed? I'm not saying it's easy to be free. I'm just saying that society's teachings all teach you to enslave yourself and tie yourself down. Its job is to make you a slave, not a free person. I think even odbo would agree with that.

Odbo did not debunk anything I said. So why are you asking me to re-read what he posted? All he said was that there was more to life than freedom. He did not show that anything I wrote was inaccurate or untrue.
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