Russia and Ukraine pass anti-gay laws hahaha

[gsjackson]

Well, the whole idea is that freedom is a fairly complicated concept (to everyone but Americans, who use the word mindlessly). As Robert Frost said (back before the US went totally braindead): "freedom is riding easy in the harness." Defining it merely as restrictions on some agent of authority, such as the state, renders the term meaningless.

To take another example from pre-braindead America, during the depression the term economic freedom meant having the financial wherewithal to pursue your enthusiasms and inspirations. It was thought that government could render powerful assistance toward that end. Now it's defined strictly as freedom from government interference. Our civil liberties are a pottage, and don't even begin to define the term freedom.

[Greetercb]

If It Were up To Me Then Both the Gays & Lesbians Here at America Would
stay right inside their Closets just like before in the Past!

[Andrewww]

I can definitely confirm that in Eastern Europe gay people have a hard time vs Canada (or the US I suppose). Young men will laught in your face if they saw you dressing and talking like a she-clown. Some might even become violent. There's little tolerance for homosexuality, even lesbians get a lot of crap from other females. And frankly I'm OK with that.

[C.J.]

I applaud Russia for taking this step towards social degradation. I love how they're kicking out all the jews and stopping all that mess before it starts. I commend them.

[ChosenTraveler]

I may not be in full agreement with their stance, but I can support that they criminalize an agent of feminism. Homosexuality has eclipsed life in the US, and has removed more power from men.

To the men that oppose this measure, they must understand that the truth is, women have to be oppressed, and certain aspects of society must be criminalized in order for society to have the most rudimentary form of functionality.

[ladislav]

Well, I guess from the US point of view it is an attempt on free speech. But since they are not bound by the US constitution, are not part of the US, the EU, etc. they have the right to pass that law. But Ukraine has other freedoms- they for one have no conspiracy charge. You cannot charge people who conspire to do something unless they are actually caught in the crime. They also do not have US jail terms going into decades or hundreds of years. So, it is a trade off.

When I was in the Philippines, I saw them sell gay po.rn on the streets in a busy part of town near bus stations. Or anywhere at any market. They had stalls with videos stacked up, with colorful covers displaying nak-d b-ttocks, hairy p-nises entering those, bearded men performing fell-tio. You know, if I were dad, I would not want those in society where kids can see them. They serve no purpose except pervert the young people's minds. At least regular p.orn would promote procreation, but this? Free speech or not. THAT sick stuff? No! It is off the devil, really and people who do that must be treated.

Also, they say there are two types of freedoms- freedom to/of and freedom from. When I take my kid shopping I want the kid to be free from seeing those n-ked b-ttocks of men with ph-lluses oozing sp-rm and ramming into those. Or having a PE teacher who would be peeking into their shower rooms, or a teacher teaching them that it is OK for men to r-m each other. Horrid stuff.

But Ukraine outlawed po'rnography period. In 2009. That was a bit of an overkill. But again, would I want my daughter to be seeing it when she is 12 or 13?

Otoh, as with any law in Ukraine, enforcement will be tough. They can pass laws, but these have a tendency to get diluted by the time they get to the grass root level. Most Ukrainians treat laws as suggestions unless they are enforced by a Cossack host.

[fschmidt]

ladislav, I am certainly not defending America today. Just because America is bad doesn't justify another country being bad. My question is, do you support this law in the Ukraine?

Most countries in most of history have sucked. There were some notable exceptions, one being America up until this country was stupid enough to give women the vote. Before that tragic event, America really was a free country with free speech, no conspiracy laws, and reasonable jail terms. Anyone who admires this old American culture can't possibly support the law being discussed in this thread.

Porn on public display, as you mentioned in the Philippines, has nothing to do with free speech. I do not think porn of any kind should be on public display. But, I don't think any kind of porn should be illegal for private consumption.

I haven't been to the Ukraine or Russia, so I can only guess what the culture is like. My guess is that while laws like this won't be generally enforced, they will serve as a sign of encouragement to the population to beat up gays and to blame their own cultural failings on gays and other minority groups.

Comments like that of ChosenTraveler "Homosexuality has eclipsed life in the US, and has removed more power from men" are simply absurd. Homosexuality is basically irrelevant. The real problem is that men no longer enforce morality on women. If I had to pick one group to blame, it would be the Christian clergy. It is the responsibility of religious leaders to provide moral guidance for the laity. Clearly the Christian clergy has badly failed to do this.

[ssjparris]

I may not be in full agreement with their stance, but I can support that they criminalize an agent of feminism. Homosexuality has eclipsed life in the US, and has removed more power from men.

To the men that oppose this measure, they must understand that the truth is, women have to be oppressed, and certain aspects of society must be criminalized in order for society to have the most rudimentary form of functionality.

i agree with your second phrase.

women do need to be "oppressed". otherwise they get out of control, use their rights to their advantage, yell, sream, drama queen, try and control the man.
i have noticed this from foreign women. the instant they see they have rights. they will then go and use it to hurt innocent men. when have you last heard men abusing their rights in eastern europe just to get women into trouble. never. she needs to be put in her place sometimes.

certain aspects do need to be criminalized. look at how healthy minded people are. even in china, east europe, and some parts of latin america.

[ladislav]

do you support that law.

Yes, well done. However, I am not for long jail terms for that. More like a fine - make it a misdemeanor. And also, if people beat someone up, they also should be punished. Don't ask, don't tell, don't preach that stuff and don't beat people up.

[ssjparris]

Well, I guess from the US point of view it is an attempt on free speech. But since they are not bound by the US constitution, are not part of the US, the EU, etc. they have the right to pass that law. But Ukraine has other freedoms- they for one have no conspiracy charge. You cannot charge people who conspire to do something unless they are actually caught in the crime. They also do not have US jail terms going into decades or hundreds of years. So, it is a trade off.

wow. i did not know about that. they don't have long jail terms. damn europe is so much better. not just with laws. but quality of life.

[ladislav]

I can definitely confirm that in Eastern Europe gay people have a hard time vs Canada (or the US I suppose). Young men will laught in your face if they saw you dressing and talking like a she-clown. Some might even become violent. There's little tolerance for homosexuality, even lesbians get a lot of crap from other females. And frankly I'm OK with that.

But there is no problem dressing up in bright colors and hugging your buddies and having close friendships with men. Or for girls to be like sisters and very close together.

Like these Moldovan guys are not gay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUMBeCFc4eg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnopHCL1 ... re=related

[Andrewww]

First time I saw them I thought they were gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9dzuIwLryc

The majority is not tolerant of public displays of gayness. And there are no gay neighbourhoods in the large cities as far as I know.

[fightforlove]

i thought this article was enlightening and informative. seems mentally healthy ukraine and russia dont want anyone imposing gayness on their people. they consider it a crime to be gay...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-1 ... raine.html


let me hear what you guys have to say about this..

The moderate opposition party of South Africa believes in "rehabilitation" as well. The ANC would like to eliminate gays altogether.

[ChosenTraveler]

ladislav, I am certainly not defending America today. Just because America is bad doesn't justify another country being bad. My question is, do you support this law in the Ukraine?

Most countries in most of history have sucked. There were some notable exceptions, one being America up until this country was stupid enough to give women the vote. Before that tragic event, America really was a free country with free speech, no conspiracy laws, and reasonable jail terms. Anyone who admires this old American culture can't possibly support the law being discussed in this thread.

p**n on public display, as you mentioned in the Philippines, has nothing to do with free speech. I do not think p**n of any kind should be on public display. But, I don't think any kind of p**n should be illegal for private consumption.

I haven't been to the Ukraine or Russia, so I can only guess what the culture is like. My guess is that while laws like this won't be generally enforced, they will serve as a sign of encouragement to the population to beat up gays and to blame their own cultural failings on gays and other minority groups.

Comments like that of ChosenTraveler "Homosexuality has eclipsed life in the US, and has removed more power from men" are simply absurd. Homosexuality is basically irrelevant. The real problem is that men no longer enforce morality on women. If I had to pick one group to blame, it would be the Christian clergy. It is the responsibility of religious leaders to provide moral guidance for the laity. Clearly the Christian clergy has badly failed to do this.

You can't deny that homosexuality is but another arm of feminism, aimed at population control and contorting the gender roles more than they are already. I contend, women have to be treated as children in a society, and until women are de-pedestalized, removed from the workplace,prevented from driving/miseducating themselves, then societies will continue to be devoid of authentic culture and morality.

[ChosenTraveler]

I may not be in full agreement with their stance, but I can support that they criminalize an agent of feminism. Homosexuality has eclipsed life in the US, and has removed more power from men.

To the men that oppose this measure, they must understand that the truth is, women have to be oppressed, and certain aspects of society must be criminalized in order for society to have the most rudimentary form of functionality.

i agree with your second phrase.

women do need to be "oppressed". otherwise they get out of control, use their rights to their advantage, yell, sream, drama queen, try and control the man.
i have noticed this from foreign women. the instant they see they have rights. they will then go and use it to hurt innocent men. when have you last heard men abusing their rights in eastern europe just to get women into trouble. never. she needs to be put in her place sometimes.

certain aspects do need to be criminalized. look at how healthy minded people are. even in china, east europe, and some parts of latin america.

You are very right SSJ. This is the unfortunate truth that many men, if they are to shed Americanesque thinking, must realize: A man must control a woman in certain areas. A woman's nature is to nurture, and a man's role is that of commander/leader. If a man is to effectively lead his woman, he must give her rules to follow and restrict some of her activities.