Stay Away from PRC at All Costs - Hate on the Rise

[droid]

na, i think it was a troll. perhaps a guy being protective and trying to prevent foreigners from hitting on his women.

[Signet]

I understand a healthy dose of skepticism when an account is coming from a single person nobody knows, but I'm curious why there was such an insanely hostile negative reaction to the guy posting. We have significantly more negative (and even assuming that the guy really was trolling, still equally useless) people posting here regularly and they don't get lynched like that.

[Yohan]

There must be a reason if a newcomer is using HA, claiming he was banned already 2 times and coming back again with different nicks opening 2 threads with similar negative remarks against China.

I do not see any insanely hostile reaction by other members. I am not a China-friendly person either, but his comments are widely exaggerated.

If you really feel like that while living in Asia and smell discrimination everywhere, better stay at home and do not travel abroad.

I have seen similar threads from other posters also against Japan, South Korea, Thailand and of course also about Philippines.

China welcomes every year millions of tourists and businessmen from all over the world - even if you are not into business, working contract or a private relationship with the Chinese, this large country is worth a few weeks or even months of sightseeing for sure.

Internet censorship, especially internationally to datalines abroad, exists in many countries in Asia, this is not something which is typically Chinese. Check out the so-called free society of Thailand. Some countries offer only limited and slow connection, for example Cambodia or Philippines especially in rural areas as their technical equipment is insufficient and outdated.

I think the country in Asia which does not censor its internet at all and offers high speed connection by optical fiber (minimum 100M) to almost every house regardless where it is located, is maybe only Japan.

[Jester]

Then when I would return, there would have been a changing of the guard, so we would have a ridiculous mutually unintelligible argument about whether I would be allowed back in or not until someone who could speak English happened by.

I wish I had video of that scene

[droid]

I think the problem is in the way some posters or alleged trolls come in with heavy absolutism and a know-it-all or "bad ass" stance.
Threads like mr blue light's and this latest poster would be more welcome if they
went like:
"Hey guys i had a bad/good experience in these areas and such... i would/wouldn'tt recommend this place, at least from what i could see"
and so on

[ladislav]

I have noticed how discussions on hatred and racism in Asia always end up with anecdotal arguments. They are pretty predictable:

Person A: You should not go to this Asian country. It's full of racists and haters. I was attacked, I get insulted all the time, my GF gets insulted, cops follow me, etc. Please don't come here.

Person B responds with these predictable logical fallacies:

Anecdotal rebuttal:

Don't listen to him! I've been in this Asian country for 20 years and it never ever happened to me ( hence it never happens to anybody). I have friends who have been in this Asian country for 30 years and they told me it has never ever happened to them, either.
(Hence, it never happens.)

Victim blaming:

It's probably because of your attitude. You are the a@@hole and the locals pick up on your bad vibes. Maybe deep inside you hate all Asians, that's why.

Deflecting the topic to the situation back in the US:

Yeah, but look at the US. Just try and walk into a Black Panther bar in Watts in Los Angeles as a white man or the KKK regional HQ meeting at a trailer park in the Ozarks as a black man. You shouldn't be complaining.

What consolation!

I personally take reports on racial hatred in Asia seriously. And you should, too. I encountered unprovoked hatred there quite often. This is no joke. Absorb all such reports and make informed decisions about whether you want to go there. If you decide to go there, ask how you can minimize encounters with such people. Which cities have less probability of such encounters?

Xenophobia and racism in Asia are pretty serious. They are usually less violent than in the West, but generally Asians are about 100 years behind when it comes to tolerance, political correctness, etc. They are, well, less socially developed. It's the truth. Their anti discrimination laws if they exist, are a joke.

America is still a work in progress, but those Asians have not even started "the work".

[Yohan]

@ladislav
You are mentioning USA vs. Asia, but USA is one country, Asia is a continent, maybe you could give more information in detail, about where and how you feel discriminated in Asia and in which country.

Person A: You should not go to this Asian country. It's full of racists and haters. I was attacked, I get insulted all the time, my GF gets insulted, cops follow me, etc. Please don't come here.

The problem is that the person complaining is withholding deliberately information when other people are trying to verify what he says. Sorry, but I do not believe any story what people are telling me without any evidence. Back it up. Attacked? Insulted? Where and when?

I personally take reports on racial hatred in Asia seriously. And you should, too. I encountered unprovoked hatred there quite often. This is no joke.

Please offer more information in detail, where, when, how did you encounter unprovoked hatred in Asia?

Victim blaming: It's probably because of your attitude.

Indeed, in many cases it is the bad attitude of the foreigner causing locals to react angrily.
Just 2 examples, Cambodia, Angkor Wat

http://www.english.rfi.fr/asia-pacific/ ... angkor-wat
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-siste ... ple-737672

[droid]

No offense ladislav but you are kind of racially paranoid, even more so than zboy1. From your other posts, you see hatred and intolerance everywhere.
Of course what persitentsexpat wrote is still very much plausible given the country's history. But to say it's hell on earth and so on is ridiculous.
And why don't you consider person A's account anecdotal as well?

[Yohan]

How can one be "behind " when it comes to political correctness?

This is an interesting question, really.

There is a far greater sense of freedom when you can say what comes to mind without always having to worry about who you may or may not insult or who you may or may not be insensitive too...

I agree and let me add, the important point is also coming from the other side. - As an European foreigner in an Asian country with a different way of life and looking totally different from the locals, you should never take anything too sensitive and should not feel to be watched and insulted all the time.

It was mentioned somewhere in this or similar thread, that words like 'gaijin' in Japan, 'farang' in Thailand are bad words, but people who know me well are often talking about me with other locals to be the 'gaijin' or 'farang' next door, they are asked while with me by other Japanese or Thai people, who is this 'gaijin' or 'farang', for example in the barber shop, motor cycle repair shop etc. while waiting and surely they do not have any bad intentions. They do not expect me to speak the local language, and they cannot speak foreign languages. They ask only other locals next to me because there are no other foreigners around living in that area. They are not accustomed to foreigners.

Not to talk about children while I am walking in the park near my home or a beach without foreigners in Thailand, children are saying often something, like 'hi, look, this is a gaijin' or a 'farang', I just laugh and ask them in my best Japanese where they can see a 'gaijin'...or say something, 'hi, I am a farang, what about taking a picture together' or something like that...

I cannot change my looks - I am a foreigner and will always look as a foreigner - and I take it easy, really I enjoy it...

[Yohan]

@marcos

to demand extreme political correctness from Asian people is hypocritical

Wen I met the first time my Filipina foster daughter in 2007, she had never seen a foreigner before, in her village near Tagum, Compostelo, in Mindanao, there are no foreigners. She was afraid of me despite many talks on webcam before.

Reaction is really different from people, who are accustomed to foreigners - like Europeans travelling a lot or US-citizens with mixed communities next to them - or if you are somewhere in Asia, among people who all belong to the SAME ethnic group, speaking the same language, with same educational background.

Rich Japanese or poor Filipinos does not matter -in remote areas they show up with rather similar reaction when they meet unexpected totally different looking and speaking foreigners in their isolated communities.

Same of course in China in remote areas, people of entire small cities never have been abroad, never met a foreigner before, and same here in Japan.

About 'gaijin-discrimination', I take it easy. There are Japanese of course - very rare however - who do not want to have anything to do with foreigners, OK, so I am moving on, forget about me and good bye... and so what? Shall I file lawsuits?

Yes, I was controlled a few times by local Japanese policemen as I am often in remote areas in Japan related to my work. They are curious and why not? Really no bad intention.

The Japanese government issues to all registered foreigners an ID-card, which every policeman, hotel-staff during check-in etc. can understand easily. I see no reason why I should refuse to carry it with me at all times and feel discriminated because Japanese do not have such ID-cards - politically correct nonsense. I am not an illegal immigrant, I show them my documents and what's wrong with it?

Why did they stop me and not the Japanese who were leaving this small railway station together with me? What shall I do now? Shall I write a letter to the Ministry of Justice to complain or what? After 35 years in Asia, I have no problems with that.

-----

About Thailand, it is well-known that Thai police is corrupt - but in 35 years I never had a problem.

During my last stay in Thailand I was stopped by traffic police, the usual check of passport, visa, driving licence, motorcycle lights, tax/insurance paid, helmet on the head etc. and - nothing... I got my documents back, thank you and bye. The foreigner they stopped after me paid for sure... no helmet, even no number plate, open beer bottle in the basket...so he feels now maybe as a foreigner to be discriminated, because most Thai on motorcycle are also without helmet, without tax-label/insurance and drunk.

He was looking at me in front of these policemen, opening his wallet, asking me how much I paid to them and I said 'nothing'.
What? Nothing? He was asking me.

I told him, it is you and not me who is breaking the law. He was looking at me like if I am the man in the moon - a big smile from the Thai policemen and I was driving off - and now in his mind I am the big asshole-farang for sure.

If you are the Western foreigner living in such Asian communities, you have to adjust your life-style, no way around it. Also, let me say, keep your documents in order and respect the law - just my advice - if the Filipino or Thai is driving fully drunk in his country, it's their problem - it does not mean you also should do it...if they are selling illegal drugs, don't buy them... if other foreigners overstay their visa and live with expired passport, it's their problem, just don't do it and so on.

I am often called to be risk-averse, but better safe than sorry. That's better than 'political correctness'.

[Jester]

I'm not sure that this is ermane, but thought this would be a reasonable thread to post it on.

http://news.liveandinvestoverseas.com/c ... rettyPhoto

[yick]

I live in Central China and that has been my Chinese experiences from day one. So, I know it is from a few years ago.

Yes, they can be very xenophobic and nationalistic - I don't think they're particulary racialist - there are loads African students here where I am and they're not the recipients of violence or antagonistic behaviour.

Lots of black people in China are professional sportsmen - basketball and football/soccer players and there isn't any widespread booing, racist abuse or monkey chants from the fans here.

You'll always be a foreigner and you will never be 'accepted' which of course, bothers some people, white Americans who think that they should be accepted everywhere they go seem to care that some Chinese idiot won't accept them because they have learned Mandarin.

Most Chinese people are decent, you will be the recipient of more decency and kindness because you are a foreigner than they would be with someone who's a countryman - of course there are jerks and assholes here, where isn't there?

You have no real rights here and they can kick you out at anytime. You'll never become a citizen (though that might change in a few years...)

Women don't think you're any big deal because you are a white foreigner - you won't be treated like a god but you will be treated with utter decency when you prove you're a decent person! There was a few years where Napoleon Dynamite types lost their virginity to Chinese girls but now that segment of Chinese women have realised a lot of white western men are wankers who haven't got anything going for them, well, it is back to normal.

Yohan is right, people in this part of China have sometimes never met or spoke to a westerner before - you might be the first westerner they have ever spoke to and I always try and remember this though it is hard sometimes because they can be f***ing rude.