Why do Filipinos NEVER share costs with foreigners or treat?!

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Rock
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Rock »

Winston wrote:
Rock wrote:Winston:

1. Marcos is right about borrowing money. It's dangerous here. Typical interest charged is 10% per month on unsecured borrowing! So you should not be sending them less than they need.

US$350 per month (~Pesos16,000) is very reasonable (I'd say quite on the low side) to provide for a child in school plus some of his caretaker's (mother's) needs. By underfunding them, you are setting them up to be buried in a hole of debt. That's similar to what happens to so many Americans. But the difference is that in USA, 10% per month would be usury. Not so here where it's accepted in common practice and even legal.

2. From now on, just give Dianne enough to meet the full needs of your child and baby momma. Never give her more than a month at a time though.

Set up a mechanism so that you can transfer money to her automatically. One way to do this would be to open 2 Peso bank accounts - one in her name and one in yours.

I would recommend you open both accounts at a BDO branch near Dianne's residence. Then apply for and activate online banking for both of you and then enroll her account so that you can make automatic transfers each month online. Also make sure your BDO account has a nice buffer of savings so that you will always have enough to make the monthly transfers.

3. This is not the first time I've helped Dianne this way but I hope it's the last. Set things up properly so we never have to go through this again.

a. Have your dad deposit NT$ equivalent of US$100 into my Taipei Fubon account via ATM just like last time. I can check whether or not the money was received from him via online banking.

b. After he has done this, give me Dianne's relevant information so I can send her Peso equivalent of US$100 via LBC.
I don't want to bother my parents to do this. If I did, I can just have them go to Western Union and send the money to Dianne, rather than have them send money to you.

I do have a BDO account. But how can I wire dollars from the US into my BDO peso account? I don't get it.

How do most guys send money to the Philippines?

I don't like having to be responsible for everything, especially since I am not married to Dianne and am seeking a real wife that is more compatible with me. I hate it when people are totally helpless like her with 0.00 of their own money. Ridiculous and extreme. Unbelievable. Abnormal.

Lots of Filipinos get by with no money. So why is it so important to support them?
If they send using Western Union the fees are kinda high. But sending money to me via local Taiwan ATM is only NT$15 or so and then me sending Dianne money via LBC is maybe what another 20 Pesos. So I made the suggestion in the interest of minimizing transaction costs. I would have thought your parents wouldn't mind taking a quick trip to a local ATM for the sake of their grandson.

As for your BDO Peso account, it's easy to wire money from overseas. You simply get the wiring instructions including SWIFT code, Account Number, Account Name, and Branch Address, go to your bank overseas, and execute a USD wire transfer using this information. Once the USD arrives in Philippines (usually takes 1-2 days from day you execute transfer), the bank will automatically convert the USD to Pesos at prevailing rate and deposit them into your account.

If you had a Charles Schwab account funded with your savings, you could even execute wire transfers like this simply by printing out a fax form, filling in the sending and receiving account info, signing it, and then faxing it into their international wire center.

You act like Dianne is squandering huge amounts of your money. You know she doesn't work, she's a stay-at-home mom. She is what she is. But she's also the mother of your child. Get used to it cus that's never gonna change. You wanna abandon Angelo or keep providing for his needs?

If it's the latter case, then do it wisely. The bank stuff is easy to set-up if you invest a bit of time and effort into it. It's certainly a lot simpler than setting up and running a website so I know you can do it if you just try a bit. I transfer money to and from BDO in Philippines frequently and do the same with banks in certain other countries. It's not rocket science. You just need to do the legwork to set things up.

Do you want your son to grow up the same way many poor Filipino kids in the provinces do? Or do you want a better life for him? Are you just gonna write him off as a low quality gene pool Filipino and contribute reluctantly at below his minimum needs with such an attitude? One day, he may read all these posts. How do you think he will feel then?

You may criticize Mr. S for hating people. But at least he has decided to step up to the plate 100% for his child who was not even intentional. Yours was. So it seems strange that you wanna mix your anti Filipino rants with personal matters regarding your son and baby momma.


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Banano
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Banano »

In Manila the MINIMUM wage is 481 PHP.
This is USD 10.30 per working day.

Fuk thats not much, no wonder girls are selling their bodies in bars and whore-houses. smart decent girl can earn a few 100s bucks a day by selling gash instead of doing some dead end low paid job.
How can filipino men afford p4p or perhaps there is 2 tier pricing system foreigners dont know about
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Yohan
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Yohan »

Rock wrote: You act like Dianne is squandering huge amounts of your money. You know she doesn't work, she's a stay-at-home mom. She is what she is. But she's also the mother of your child. Get used to it cus that's never gonna change. You wanna abandon Angelo or keep providing for his needs?
I have to admit that Winston has a valid argument.

Question:
Why is Dianne not working anything like many other Filipina women who also have children? Any reason for that?
What is her educational background, what work could she do?
What does she think about her future? To remain a stay-at-home mom? For all her life?
Banano
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Banano »

She doesnt work?? She can go back to work @ Julianas, get a few shifts, part time, casual at least instead of sitting on her flat ass waiting for Winnie to send her money

westerners are turning FW into parasitic creatures that are good for nothing
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Winston
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Winston »

Yohan wrote:
Winston wrote:Guys,
The average salary in the Philippines is 300p a day, about 7 dollars a day
This is not correct, the average salary in Philippines is higher, you are talking about the MINIMUM wage.

http://www.in-philippines.com/philippin ... wage-2015/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_o ... hilippines

In Manila the MINIMUM wage is 481 PHP.
This is USD 10.30 per working day.

http://www.nwpc.dole.gov.ph/pages/stati ... st_wo.html
Keep in mind that Manila does not represent all of the Philippines. It's the capital after all. Also, the minimum wage is not easy to enforce. Many employers pay their workers in little shops only 150 pesos a day. I talk to many girls who work in the malls, even the big SM malls, and they tell me they make about 300p a day. Finally, official wages are just on paper, it doesn't necessarily represent actual wages.
Yohan wrote:
Rock wrote: You act like Dianne is squandering huge amounts of your money. You know she doesn't work, she's a stay-at-home mom. She is what she is. But she's also the mother of your child. Get used to it cus that's never gonna change. You wanna abandon Angelo or keep providing for his needs?
I have to admit that Winston has a valid argument.

Question:
Why is Dianne not working anything like many other Filipina women who also have children? Any reason for that?
What is her educational background, what work could she do?
What does she think about her future? To remain a stay-at-home mom? For all her life?
Because she claims there is no one to watch Angelo cause her mom works to support her sisters. But even when her mom is not working, she will still not watch Angelo for free, she still wants to be paid for it. Most of the bar girls are single mothers and they somehow get their moms to watch their kids for them. I don't know why Dianne can't just do what the bar girls do.

Dianne has had jobs as a waitress and hostess. She is good at it and well liked by employers and patrons. However, she never seems to hold onto a job very long. She always finds an excuse to quit. But you can't blame her since wages in the Philippines are too low to make a job worth your time.

Dianne wants to work overseas to get higher salaries of course. But it is very hard for a Filipino to work overseas. They have to pay agency fees of 90,000p and go through a lot of testing and paperwork and bureaucracy. Their own government doesn't want them going overseas for some reason and make it very hard for them to do it.

The irony is that if a Filipino had 90,000p to spare then they would not be desperate enough to need to work overseas. Besides, Filpinos are terrible at saving, so who has 90,000p? They have to borrow it or pay it in installments after paying a deposit or something.

So basically, a poor Filipino is in a no win situation unless they marry and go abroad or find a reliable sponsor. (as in the case of Yohan's foster daughter)

Yohan, how did you get a foster daughter in the Philippines and why? Are you just a charitable guy with too much extra cash?
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davewe
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by davewe »

Yohan wrote: Marcos, you forgot in your excellent listing to mention medical fees.

Last week I sent USD 600,- to cover the health insurance for my foster daughter for 1 year as a student in Cebu. This insurance covers only medical treatment in some hospitals, but never the drugs. All medicine she needs she has to buy separately and pay in cash. No refund.

Further, higher education is not so cheap when children are getting older studying in Cebu (of course it cannot be compared with USA-fees) but every semester I have to transfer at least USD 3000,- to cover the study expenses.
In all fairness those are pretty high end fees. While there are a few expensive universities in Manila and Cebu, most colleges are a fraction of this figure. My sister in law is studying education in Cebu and her per/semester tuition + fees are about 10% of that figure.

Nonetheless, you're certainly correct that ultimately Winston should care about educational costs and medical costs for his child.

But he doesn't have to go broke over it. But he acknowledges that $250 isn't much and she ends up in debt regularly. He should pick out a bit more generous figure and tell her to figure out how to budget with it. And then he should figure out how to get the money there regularly and efficiently.
davewe
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by davewe »

Yohan wrote:
Rock wrote: You act like Dianne is squandering huge amounts of your money. You know she doesn't work, she's a stay-at-home mom. She is what she is. But she's also the mother of your child. Get used to it cus that's never gonna change. You wanna abandon Angelo or keep providing for his needs?
I have to admit that Winston has a valid argument.

Question:
Why is Dianne not working anything like many other Filipina women who also have children? Any reason for that?
What is her educational background, what work could she do?
What does she think about her future? To remain a stay-at-home mom? For all her life?
I too agree. While $250 is far from a fortune in the Philippines it's a reasonable child support if the mother worked or had some other source of income. OTOH, if they agreed that she could not work and the $250 is supposed to cover living expenses for Dianne and Angelo - then it's no surprise she is short monthly.
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Yohan
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Yohan »

davewe wrote: In all fairness those are pretty high end fees. While there are a few expensive universities in Manila and Cebu, most colleges are a fraction of this figure. My sister in law is studying education in Cebu and her per/semester tuition + fees are about 10% of that figure.

Nonetheless, you're certainly correct that ultimately Winston should care about educational costs and medical costs for his child.

But he doesn't have to go broke over it. But he acknowledges that $250 isn't much and she ends up in debt regularly. He should pick out a bit more generous figure and tell her to figure out how to budget with it. And then he should figure out how to get the money there regularly and efficiently.
You know about life in Philippines very well.

http://usc.edu.ph/

You are right, fees for colleges often for 2 years only etc. are much much cheaper.

The University of San Carlos in Cebu is top end with all fees, but what I mentioned is not only the tuition, there are always additional payments for any kind of projects, meetings and travels, required materials for studies and so on.

I know that no ordinary family in Cebu can pay for that, but she is now in 3rd year already and passed every exam, I never expected her when I saw her the first time over 12 years ago, that this feral, abandoned, severely mistreated and malnourished girl from a remote area in Mindanao(so-called poorest of the poor) will ever pass even public elementary school, but to my own surprise, I was wrong.

-----

About Winston, I do not know if Dianne is still listening to him and will follow any advice, they are living not together anymore, what she is doing is difficult to control. I don't know anything about her. However he should not be kept responsible for her debts.

I think all basic fees for his son should be paid by him, including education and medical care as she is just unable to pay for that. To do this, USD 250,- is somewhat low, just my feelings - it is the bare minimum. He also should regulate, with automatic bank transfers, that these payments are done on time every month.
Adama
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Adama »

davewe wrote:MZ - I think you have to separate this issue from Winston. The reason he ended up paying for everything (and he's been complaining about this for years) is because - he's Winston :) Plus he spent much of his time in Angeles where even if a girl isn't a bar girl, she's learned what to expect from foreigners.

All that being said,the Philippines functions like the 50s - it's Happy Days and there is still an expectation that the guy pays. I think it's one of the reasons (not the only one ;) ) that in general older guys like the place. In my 30s and 40s it took me years to get used to the girl paying or splitting the check on a date. I go to the Philippines and the attititude is comparable to when I was in my 20s - the guy pays.

But there is a more overriding attitude in the Philippines. It's not universal but it's common. That is - the richest person pays. By the way, this was not an uncommon philosophy in the West a couple generations ago. My grandfather routinely took his entire extended family out to a fancy dinner - and paid. If one of his sons went for the check (or part of the check) there would have been war. It was simply a given in that era - that the rich guy paid.

A weird story: Janet and I met her former boss in Cebu. I had heard a lot about her and was looking forward to meeting her. 75, she spent 1/2 her time in Toronto and 1/2 her time at the pension house she owned in Leyte. She wasn't a poor Filipina. Yet I knew I would be paying for lunch. The old lady showed up with (unexpectedly) her sister and best friend. The best friend as it turns out was stinking rich, living with her husband in a borderline mansion in a gated community in the hills over Cebu. I paid lol. The 3 old ladies made a big show about breaking out their senior citizen cards to save me some money :)

After I paid the friend invited me to visit her home. We all went there and I was stunned by the place. Her hubby was a big shot businessman who could have bought and sold me 10 times over. Very interesting to talk to him. High priced food and booze was brought out all day long. Believe me Janet and I ate and drank more than I paid for at the lunch. I have no great conclusions about the story. In the end I did pay for the lunch. But because of that I got brought into a world and gained a little insight that I would have never experienced otherwise. For me it was worth it. But for someone like Winston - he'd still be pissed that he had to pick up the check :)

That's an excellent story. I am glad I didnt skip it. I don't have any good stories like that. I just remember being cheap, and having the Spanish girls call me barato. Even now I will drive 10 minutes out of my way to avoid a toll booth. ;)
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davewe
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by davewe »

Adama wrote:
davewe wrote:
A weird story: Janet and I met her former boss in Cebu. I had heard a lot about her and was looking forward to meeting her. 75, she spent 1/2 her time in Toronto and 1/2 her time at the pension house she owned in Leyte. She wasn't a poor Filipina. Yet I knew I would be paying for lunch. The old lady showed up with (unexpectedly) her sister and best friend. The best friend as it turns out was stinking rich, living with her husband in a borderline mansion in a gated community in the hills over Cebu. I paid lol. The 3 old ladies made a big show about breaking out their senior citizen cards to save me some money :)

After I paid the friend invited me to visit her home. We all went there and I was stunned by the place. Her hubby was a big shot businessman who could have bought and sold me 10 times over. Very interesting to talk to him. High priced food and booze was brought out all day long. Believe me Janet and I ate and drank more than I paid for at the lunch. I have no great conclusions about the story. In the end I did pay for the lunch. But because of that I got brought into a world and gained a little insight that I would have never experienced otherwise. For me it was worth it. But for someone like Winston - he'd still be pissed that he had to pick up the check :)
That's an excellent story. I am glad I didnt skip it. I don't have any good stories like that. I just remember being cheap, and having the Spanish girls call me barato. Even now I will drive 10 minutes out of my way to avoid a toll booth. ;)
Believe me I can be cheap too - just ask my wife :)
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Yohan
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Yohan »

Banano wrote:In Manila the MINIMUM wage is 481 PHP.
This is USD 10.30 per working day.
Fuk thats not much, no wonder girls are selling their bodies in bars and whore-houses. smart decent girl can earn a few 100s bucks a day by selling gash instead of doing some dead end low paid job.
How can filipino men afford p4p or perhaps there is 2 tier pricing system foreigners dont know about
There are many countries which will show up in the same income level as Philippines.

In Europe it is Ukraine, in South America it's Paraguay, and it's Indonesia in Asia etc. Other countries are even far below Philippines, for example Vietnam, Bangladesh, India...

I see little connection between poverty and prostitution. Even countries with high income have escort services... Japan, USA...
There are always women who will do it as prostitution is usually better paid than any other work next door.
Of course there are also girls who refuse, even if they have really nothing...

Young poor women can make a good income out of prostitution - but what can young men in poor countries do? They also have to find a source of income. Who cares about them?

I do not feel sorry about poor women, because in countries with poor women there are also poor men.
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Winston
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Winston »

davewe wrote:
Yohan wrote: Marcos, you forgot in your excellent listing to mention medical fees.

Last week I sent USD 600,- to cover the health insurance for my foster daughter for 1 year as a student in Cebu. This insurance covers only medical treatment in some hospitals, but never the drugs. All medicine she needs she has to buy separately and pay in cash. No refund.

Further, higher education is not so cheap when children are getting older studying in Cebu (of course it cannot be compared with USA-fees) but every semester I have to transfer at least USD 3000,- to cover the study expenses.
In all fairness those are pretty high end fees. While there are a few expensive universities in Manila and Cebu, most colleges are a fraction of this figure. My sister in law is studying education in Cebu and her per/semester tuition + fees are about 10% of that figure.

Nonetheless, you're certainly correct that ultimately Winston should care about educational costs and medical costs for his child.

But he doesn't have to go broke over it. But he acknowledges that $250 isn't much and she ends up in debt regularly. He should pick out a bit more generous figure and tell her to figure out how to budget with it. And then he should figure out how to get the money there regularly and efficiently.
He said he sent her 600 USD to cover health insurance, not tuition fees. Wtf? Health insurance in Philippines doesnt cost even a tenth of that. Is yohan getting scammed by his foster daughter? Is he gullible?

College tuition is not very much either. My son goes to private school and his tuition is about 50 dollars a month.

Btw dianne uses my money for her expenses too, such as her food and utilities. That is a gray area because if were not together and she isnt my wife then i shouldnt have to pay her expenses. Her mom should.
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Yohan
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

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Winston wrote: He said he sent her 600 USD to cover health insurance, not tuition fees. Wtf? Health insurance in Philippines doesnt cost even a tenth of that.

College tuition is not very much either. My son goes to private school and his tuition is about 50 dollars a month.
Private insurances in Philippines with good coverage in private hospitals away from public clinics, including dental work, medical checkups, in-patient care etc. are not cheap, this is USD 50,- per month, php 2.300,- approx. per month. Not really much money however if you are working in Western countries.

How old is your son? It seems you have no idea how much private university fees + other expenses for projects etc. can be, my fosterdaughter is now 20. Higher education is nowhere cheap.

Of course you might survive without any health insurance and many Filipinos do - or you might take some simple courses in colleges - however if you look around, there is clearly a difference between Filipinos of the upper/middle class and the Filipinos living in poverty.

If you give Dianne and your son USD 250,-/monthly and you think this is OK for a nice life in Philippines for both of them... up to you, but I tell you this is not enough, it covers barely the minimum to survive.
Btw dianne uses my money for her expenses too, such as her food and utilities. That is a gray area because if were not together and she isnt my wife then i shouldnt have to pay her expenses. Her mom should.
If you send only USD 250,- (about php 11.500,-) there cannot be much left over for spending for her food and utilities.
I think however she should also go out and doing some job, to earn some money by herself and if it is only php 5000,- or so per month.
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Yohan
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Yohan »

Winston wrote: Because she claims there is no one to watch Angelo cause her mom works to support her sisters. But even when her mom is not working, she will still not watch Angelo for free, she still wants to be paid for it. Most of the bar girls are single mothers and they somehow get their moms to watch their kids for them. I don't know why Dianne can't just do what the bar girls do.

Dianne has had jobs as a waitress and hostess. She is good at it and well liked by employers and patrons. However, she never seems to hold onto a job very long. She always finds an excuse to quit. But you can't blame her since wages in the Philippines are too low to make a job worth your time.

Dianne wants to work overseas to get higher salaries of course. But it is very hard for a Filipino to work overseas...
I am visiting Philippines since more than 30 years, since Ferdinand Marcos times. Many Filipinos who are earning enough for a modest life and working hard will tell you that such people like Dianne are merely lazy.

Low wages are very common in wide parts of Asia, not to try to find employment because of that is no valid excuse. Following this logic, nobody would work anything anymore in all South East Asia.

It's not only about poor people in poor countries, but also about people claiming to be poor, but refusing any kind of job. Claiming to be underpaid but are fired because of poor performance etc. and prefer to live of benefits in Western countries.

Another point is about trying to find better education, if she is at home what is she studying to improve her situation? As said, there are many colleges which offer some cheap studies. Better educations means often better pay.

About overseas work, we also have Philippine staff in our Tokyo office, I wonder however if Dianne is willing or able by her behavior and educational background to do their work and for how long. Some women are domestic staff only but this is not like being maid in Philippines and there are also Filipinos who are in IT business, working in technical companies, in shipping companies etc.....

You could say the same about India, it's a poor place, income below Philippines - but some Indian men are fairly high educated, good in IT, banking, import/export, restaurant and other businesses here in Japan and are earning well.

Not every Indian is poor, not every Filipino is poor.
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Re: Why do Dianne and Filipinos NEVER share any costs?!

Post by Adama »

Winston, for all intents and purposes, she's your ex-wife. You made a child with a woman who has no real prospects in life. She will find it hard to find a new man because she has your baby. She is essentially your ex wife. Just because there wasnt a certificate doesnt get you off the hook there. I am disappointed in reading this from you, Winston. They are both yours. You should help them. Even if you don't do it for Dianne, do it for your son. You do not want your son to grow up impoverished. You should take care of your own. I assume your parents took care of you, and didnt let you go without many things. You may come to regret your neglect of them many years from now.

When there is a choice between people and things, or people and money, you are supposed to choose the people, not the money and not material objects. People are priceless and can not be replaced. Money is a means to an end. It is not the end unto itself, although many people think that way. Use your money to support the people in your life. These are people whose lives you have changed, even though she consented. If it were not for you, she would not have had your son.
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