It's easier to go MGTOW than it is to become a PUA

[Yohan]

If we were going to look at your lifestyle and Yohan's lifestyle side by side, to the untrained eye it would seem like you are in fact the MGTOW

What? Adama as MGTOW in disguise? I rest my case.

[Adama]

While I disagree with Yohan on several issues, I admire and respect him for his lifestyle choices. Adama, you would do well to remember that, while you claim to be a traditional man and a child of Christ, Yohan is in fact the man who is living and has for the past 4 decades lived, the more conservative lifestyle; he is a married man, a father and grandfather, and you are, from what I know of you, a single man who's not that young anymore. If we were going to look at your lifestyle and Yohan's lifestyle side by side, to the untrained eye it would seem like you are in fact the MGTOW.

You're not even paying attention. Yohan himself thinks his own family, even his foster daughter, are nothing but a financial drain on his life. He even speculates in other threads that if he had a chance to do things over, he would not.

See below:

About myself, I was lucky in my life so far.

I was lucky, as I married young an Asian woman, moved to Asia, and now 39 years later, I am still married with the same wife, I also have 2 daughters and one of them pregnant, I will be grandfather soon. I also have a Filipina foster daughter.

But if you ask me if I do it again if I could repeat my life from the very beginning on? You might be surprised, but I think my answer is NO, and I cannot recommend anybody to do in future what I did in my past.


My life is nice, no problems at all, but without family I would be for sure in a much better position than I am now. Is it really worth to sacrifice yourself as a husband and father? To share a large part you earn because of your work? To risk your health because of excessive overtime? To work even when you feel sick?

Part of the reason why I am not so young but single is because for over a decade I subscribed to the MGTOW ideology of western female avoidance. That's why men like him need to stop giving advice. He doesn't know what he is talking about AT ALL. His experience is null and void. He doesn't even like having a family. He would rather have money, much more money to be "better off." So much for traditional.

I do not think if I had the chance to change my age and to start again as a young man that I will repeat what I did in my past.

For sure as a single man I would be now in a much better financial position and nevertheless without any obligations and responsibilities.

To marry again, to have children again? And what is next? To divorce? For what should this be good for? Why to take this high risk that something is going badly wrong with you even with your best intention?

I am now MGTOW, I am really risk-averse. I do not like being controlled and used by others.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31451

He ran all the way to Japan and had great success, but he doesn't value that success at all. Even though he loves the legal system there which he posts on regularly, he would not marry his own wife over again, and neither would he conceive either of his daughters again. Sounds like a loving, traditional man who values family over money, and who is courageous.

Is this what men should model themselves after? These men are giving terrible advice that younger men are following while these men are clueless about the most fundamental aspects of women and life. Listening to and following bozos like him will ruin your life which is why they should shut their mouths. They are as damaging to men as feminists are to women. Maybe if you weren't biased by your hatred of me and the truth you would accept that.

[Adama]

Yohan, you are one whose mouth should be stopped. You give advice which you can't even remember, and advice which is extremely damaging to younger minds such as Nomad. You are and other MGTOW are partly responsible for spreading this hateful, illogical ideology.

Your comment sounds like calling for censorship. All what you do not like to hear has to be stopped. Unfortunately this is a free speech forum called for good reason 'Happier Abroad'. It's a place for men who are dissatisfied with their present position somewhere in Western countries and of course also with Western women and who like to hear stories and exchange opinions from other men who are expats now.

I am not calling for censorship. I am calling for one of two things, maybe both: I ask that you all voluntary stop giving your MGTOW advice. You're as damaging to men as feminists are to women. You and your kind truly are warping young men's minds and ruining them. Or younger men should be warned against MGTOW so that they do not fall for the male version of feminism which would destroy their lives if they believed in it.

You're rather clueless about everything, just from reading your posts. You are in no way qualified to lead younger men, and you should voluntarily shut your mouth, before younger men fall for your bad advice. Truth is, you have no idea what you're even saying.

[Nomad]

Part of the reason why I am not so young but single is because for over a decade I subscribed to the MGTOW ideology of western female avoidance. That's why men like him need to stop giving advice. He doesn't know what he is talking about AT ALL. His experience is null and void. He doesn't even like having a family. He would rather have money, much more money to be "better off." So much for traditional.

Well I guess I understand you now. You went into MGTOW just like your average man, but the end result was loneliness. Now, you desperately want a wife / kids and you hate that people like Yohan and perhaps me, do have a wife, while you don't.

[Zambales]

Aren't there any chicks you can get with at church Adama? If not, perhaps join another one or go on one of those christian dating websites. If you're after a non christian though I think you'll have problems.

[Adama]

That is pretty shocking Adama I agree.

I'm a sensible guy, and I try to be fair.

Aren't there any chicks you can get with at church Adama? If not, perhaps join another one or go on one of those christian dating websites. If you're after a non christian though I think you'll have problems.

Believe it or not, I already know know what the plan is (took me all these years to see what the plan is). I just don't know when.

[Yohan]

You're rather clueless about everything, just from reading your posts. You are in no way qualified to lead younger men, and you should voluntarily shut your mouth, before younger men fall for your bad advice. Truth is, you have no idea what you're even saying.

You are obviously a lonely freak who failed in your life and now you blame hatefully MGTOW for your situation. OK, you said you left the MGTOW ideology, but it seems you are still single and lonely. So you failed clearly to find any female partner even after turning away from MGTOW. Obviously you are also unable to take care financially of a family with children. To read from the Bible is not enough to pay open bills.

About my comments, you did edit them and omit some important parts in my sentences. For example I said, it is a big difference between 1976 and 2016.

Of course in 1972 I found it perfectly OK to look for a foreign wife, a rare choice in Europe as the cultural differences were considerable, the legal situation was different, it was difficult and costly to travel, there was no internet existing, no ATMs, contacts all done by letters, there was hardly any book available to learn Asian languages etc. Japan was not my first Asian country, it was Malaysia - and Japanese were not my first Asian languages but Malay and Cantonese.

You say you are not so young anymore, but I am now 64, and still I am sure, I am able to find anytime a woman to live with me, but so far my present marriage is OK since 39 years, therefore no need to look around.

And yes, family costs me a lot of money, my wife needs not to go out to work and she is very happy about it. Both of my children spent some years in universities in Canada, Japan, France, who pays for that? About my Filipina foster daughter, you have no idea how much it costs to get a child in a poor country away from a rural abusive environment - I had to provide everything over many years - issues of documents, house, food, somebody who takes care of her, school, medical treatment, clothes usw. usw. finally also paying for her university education, and this I do voluntarily - I am working for that, and I am happy as I have to say, all people next to me are really grateful.

Openly said, what Adama tells me what I should do or not do, I do not care. I go my own way.

Should I choose the same way of life in 2016, which I have chosen in 1972? - Will I do it again? I don't know, maybe ... maybe not. There are reasons to reconsider my decision and maybe nowadays not doing the same what I did more than 40 years ago. 1972 is not 2016.

It's a different world now, marriage contracts are rather worthless, children have more rights than their parents, travel around the world is cheap and not an adventure anymore, interracial/international marriages are common, abortion is already considered as 'family planning' in many countries, divorce was not automatically non-fault for cheating women taking over your house and children, stable jobs are rare and income is often not enough for yourself, so what could you give away for others etc. -

To remain single makes much more sense in 2016 than in 1972. I stay with my comment and I give this advice and ask young men who are interested into MGTOW to reconsider this option.

[Moretorque]

That is pretty shocking Adama I agree.

Did you join the military and have plastic surgery done ?

[Ghost]

.

[Yohan]

MGTOW is about choice - not only about choice for females, but also about choice for men, to let MEN decide what they really want to do in their life, even if such decisions are not considered to be politically correct in Western countries.

The point is maybe that Adama is forced to accept this kind of life-style, with or without MGTOW. He sees no way out for him. He has no other choice, he is sitting somewhere lonely in USA and dreams about being appointed by God as a church-leader or something like that.

But so far, it seems, God does not listen to him. He goes even so far to blame MGTOW for his unhappiness.
I would not call Adama's present life-style to be MGTOW. He is a bitter person.

-----

About myself, I have a choice. Yes, I support my family, also my Filipina foster daughter. But I support also MGTOW.

About blue-pill, I do not know about any blue-pill guy who supports financially and as admin an online MGTOW Forum as I do since more than one decade.

Of course I can stop to do so anytime, I can do whatever I like. I can pack my things, move out of Japan tomorrow and go to somewhere else, forget my children (they are adults anyway), leave my wife (she is financial secure, so why should I care?), stop to support my Filipina foster daughter (why should this girl graduate anyway?), stop my MGTOW activities etc. ... but I see no reason why I should.

[Yohan]

That is pretty shocking Adama I agree

It is nothing shocking about, if a man is considering a different approach to a certain situation 40 years later, especially not if conditions were changed considerably during these 40 years to his disadvantage.

it is not the same if you have to decide which way to go in 1976 or 2016 about the same issue. Marriage or not is the question. Children or not is the question. The conditions about how to create a family changed totally during these last 40 years in Western countries.

The decision to marry and to create a family was considered to be best for yourself in 1976 but now in 2016, it might be totally wrong for a man to expect a good future as a husband and father.

Nowadays your presence as a husband and father is considered to be 2nd class. Rather worthless, expect for paying bills. Social feminist-friendly services took over your job. This was not the case 40 years ago.

[Nomad]

Of course in 1972 I found it perfectly OK to look for a foreign wife, a rare choice in Europe as the cultural differences were considerable, the legal situation was different, it was difficult and costly to travel, there was no internet existing, no ATMs, contacts all done by letters, there was hardly any book available to learn Asian languages etc. Japan was not my first Asian country, it was Malaysia - and Japanese were not my first Asian languages but Malay and Cantonese.

Wow Yohan, sounds way harder to keep a long distant relationship back then than it does now. Me and my wife constantly kept in contact via skype. We video chat pretty much everyday so we never lost contact with each other. To me, you stepped up to the plate and tackled those challenges, so to hear someone like Adama say you should stop talking, clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. The bible speaks of listening to your elders for their wisdom and experience.

[Adama]

You advise young men on this forum and others to never have a family, despite the relative safety of Japan for men. Instead your recommendation is what? To avoid marriage because you are risk averse. That's just cowardice and loving money. This is your advice.

Lonely freak? Well many MGTOW are lonely and will be lonely for the rest of their lives. Many seem to think this is one of the paths of MGTOW. Look at Ghost and Marcos how they seem to believe that I am lonely and living a MGTOW lifestyle. That just goes to show that the men of MGTOW, comprised of losers who hate their own blood, do not love even their own families or other men. If MGTOW is comprised of lonely men, how empathetic is it for a MGTOW to insult another man for being lonely? That's not empathetic but pathetic and shows the quality of the men involved.

Also, a man should never be insulted regarding his finances. You make more money than me and I am unable to support a family, in your opinion. So you insult me for being poor. Seems we know your values, Yohan: Money, not family. Money, not brotherhood.

Now Yohan wishes he could go back to fulfill MGTOW rather than fulfill family life: That is he wishes he could go back to live MGTOW (presumably singledom), and he even wishes he had not had a family, because of money.

If you had a successful family life, there is no reason to go back to live MGTOW. Doesn't that mean you don't really need it? I mean if you successfully had a family without issue, as you claim, then there is no reason to regret it for MGTOW. Unless of course, you don't value your family. It just shows that MGTOW is valued more. MGTOW and money. It surely isn't the legal system, as he would have us believe, because in other places he is going on at length about how good that legal system is for men in Japan. Stupid.

And what does a man without a wife and kids do with his time? Surely not girlfriends for the MGTOW. Since the issue is the legal system for these liars (they deceive themselves, because the issue is NOT the legal system but their inability to connect with western women) even girlfriends are off limits, even in male dominated and friendly nations like Japan. What then? Prostitutes? Loneliness? Oh wait, are we going to live in a MGTOW community? What is the other option besides wife and family / girlfriends? Loneliness and/or prostitution.

Yohan, your advice is faulty. You should not be giving any advice.

And I am still a young man, just not a very young man, but thank you all for the deep concern for my age.

[Adama]

That is pretty shocking Adama I agree

It is nothing shocking about, if a man is considering a different approach to a certain situation 40 years later, especially not if conditions were changed considerably during these 40 years to his disadvantage.

it is not the same if you have to decide which way to go in 1976 or 2016 about the same issue. Marriage or not is the question. Children or not is the question. The conditions about how to create a family changed totally during these last 40 years in Western countries.

The decision to marry and to create a family was considered to be best for yourself in 1976 but now in 2016, it might be totally wrong for a man to expect a good future as a husband and father.

Nowadays your presence as a husband and father is considered to be 2nd class. Rather worthless, expect for paying bills. Social feminist-friendly services took over your job. This was not the case 40 years ago.

Meanwhile out the other side of your mouth you are talking about how good the system is in Japan for men. Now all of a sudden, if you had to do it over again, you'd do it different, cause the legal system. But the legal system is fine. No, it's because you value money more than family, similar to the rest of MGTOW. Sucker. You're worse than a wishy washy woman. Clueless and in darkness.

Men, this is one of the captains of MGTOW. Look at what a fool he is. Do you really want to get involved with this feminism for men? It seems they are as anti family as the feminists. Oh I regret having a family cause MGTOW.

Feminist: I regret having a family cause feminism. I wish I could throw away my family because of my man-hating ideology.
MGTOW: I regret having a family cause MGTOW. I wish I could throw away my family because I'm afraid of women and hate them and my own family.

Fools.

[Adama]

MGTOW is about choice - not only about choice for females, but also about choice for men, to let MEN decide what they really want to do in their life, even if such decisions are not considered to be politically correct in Western countries.

The point is maybe that Adama is forced to accept this kind of life-style, with or without MGTOW. He sees no way out for him. He has no other choice, he is sitting somewhere lonely in USA and dreams about being appointed by God as a church-leader or something like that.

But so far, it seems, God does not listen to him. He goes even so far to blame MGTOW for his unhappiness.
I would not call Adama's present life-style to be MGTOW. He is a bitter person.

-----

About myself, I have a choice. Yes, I support my family, also my Filipina foster daughter. But I support also MGTOW.

About blue-pill, I do not know about any blue-pill guy who supports financially and as admin an online MGTOW Forum as I do since more than one decade.

Of course I can stop to do so anytime, I can do whatever I like. I can pack my things, move out of Japan tomorrow and go to somewhere else, forget my children (they are adults anyway), leave my wife (she is financial secure, so why should I care?), stop to support my Filipina foster daughter (why should this girl graduate anyway?), stop my MGTOW activities etc. ... but I see no reason why I should.

A family man who is MGTOW who wants to leave his wife and family. He even wishes he had never had them. Oh and he financially supports feminism for men.

Think of a woman who loves feminism more than her husband and children. This woman is anti-family, including her own, and she actively donates to feminist causes. She thinks this is a good thing to support feminism, along with the fact that her love for feminism exceeds her love for her family, as she wishes she had never had them.