23 minutes in hell testimony

[Pinayhunter]

I actually believe him. You can hear the emotion in his voice and and see it in his face, especially from 37:30 - 38:30 when he’s describing his encounter with Jesus.

[Neo]

I watch this video or others like it with the same man, every couple of months or so. Hell is much more than just fire and brimstone. It is soot, smoke, sulfur, lava pits, black darkness, starvation, thirst, forever.

[Yohan]

A case of oneiric hallucination of a confused brain mixing up dreams during sleep with consciousness. This happens frequently with people during waking up after sleep when regaining consciousness. Similar experiences are also noticed with people who are in a coma after an accident or under anaesthetic during surgery etc.
A guy who is selling his book...

[MrMan]

I heard a woman tell about a very similar vision, but she was not dying, in surgery, etc.

[Nailer]

I can't imagine being so selfish that I gave much thought to my own theoretical eternal existence. My only purpose is to have children and give them the best life possible.

Guess I'm just not a boomer.

[gsjackson]

I actually believe him. You can hear the emotion in his voice and and see it in his face, especially from 37:30 - 38:30 when he’s describing his encounter with Jesus.

He saw a spinning globe in the vision. That put me right off of a New Age character I had found interesting, Esther (Abraham) Hicks, when she casually referenced the same phenomenon while purporting to be infinite intelligence. How do you reconcile this guy's vision with your current beliefs about the earth? Are we missing the boat (as it goes over the curve ), or do you think his vision is more the product of his own mind?

God is to be feared, for sure, but it's hard to make any sense of this hell, even as a suitable permanent residence for the likes of Hellary Clinton.

[Pinayhunter]

I actually believe him. You can hear the emotion in his voice and and see it in his face, especially from 37:30 - 38:30 when he’s describing his encounter with Jesus.

He saw a spinning globe in the vision. That put me right off of a New Age character I had found interesting, Esther (Abraham) Hicks, when she casually referenced the same phenomenon while purporting to be infinite intelligence. How do you reconcile this guy's vision with your current beliefs about the earth? Are we missing the boat (as it goes over the curve ), or do you think his vision is more the product of his own mind?

God is to be feared, for sure, but it's hard to make any sense of this hell, even as a suitable permanent residence for the likes of Hellary Clinton.

Maybe God only allowed this Wiese guy to see what he needed to see. A vision of flat Earth would have delegitimized his testimony in a lot of people’s eyes.

There’s also the possibility - however unlikely - that the Earth is spherical like they tell us. I haven’t ruled it out completely.

I sure hope it was just a nightmare, but I’m not taking any chances.

[MrMan]

I can't imagine being so selfish that I gave much thought to my own theoretical eternal existence. My only purpose is to have children and give them the best life possible.

Guess I'm just not a boomer.

If you were to catch on fire, are you saying you wouldn't care anything about the pain as long as your children are okay?

[TruthSeeker]

I don't buy most of these 'testimonies' about going to or seeing hell. In Bill Wiese's case it was just a launchpad for him to start a ministry and sell books. His wife was probably in on it too. The Bible tells us that the love of money is the root of all evil.

Same thing goes about visions of heaven. They are mainly there to sell tapes and books and make you give them donations.

[MrMan]

I don't buy most of these 'testimonies' about going to or seeing hell. In Bill Wiese's case it was just a launchpad for him to start a ministry and sell books. His wife was probably in on it too. The Bible tells us that the love of money is the root of all evil.

Same thing goes about visions of heaven. They are mainly there to sell tapes and books and make you give them donations.

Is it wrong to sell religious books? It's a lot easier to get a book out there will people will read it if you do sell it. You seem rather quick to judge people.

[TruthSeeker]

Jesus overthrew the moneychangers because they were merchandising in the temple. That is what these charlatans are doing.

Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

That is what these so called ministers are doing today.

[Aron]

@Pinayhunter

Of course you just assume this guy's story of seeing hell is true. Even when as someone else pointed out he has a clear financial incentive to say this. Along with a religious one since his indoctrination tells him hell must exist.

Have you even thought for 10 seconds, that your whole Christian narrative about some omnipotent omnibenevolent God controlling everything makes absolutely no sense? Look up Euthyphro's Dilemma. I'm reminded of how you entirely ignored everything I said back in the other thread. Don't just shut off all contrary argument like that, and then go on to argue the same thing like nothing happened.

[MrMan]

Aron, God still does stuff. Other than nature and creation, He still answers prayers and other things.

[gsjackson]

@Pinayhunter

Of course you just assume this guy's story of seeing hell is true. Even when as someone else pointed out he has a clear financial incentive to say this. Along with a religious one since his indoctrination tells him hell must exist.

Have you even thought for 10 seconds, that your whole Christian narrative about some omnipotent omnibenevolent God controlling everything makes absolutely no sense? Look up Euthyphro's Dilemma. I'm reminded of how you entirely ignored everything I said back in the other thread. Don't just shut off all contrary argument like that, and then go on to argue the same thing like nothing happened.

@Aron
When you graduate down the road and enter the adult world you might encounter the concept of condescension and come to understand how loathed it is far and wide. I assume you get no response from Pinayhunter because he long since made it clear that not only is he familiar with your puerile take on religion, he grew up with it. He's moved on past schoolboy sophistry.

And for someone who I assume has been told by his teachers how terribly, terribly bright he is, your reading comprehension sucks. He didn't "just assume" this guy was credible, he drew inferences from his manner and demeanor, hedged his bets on what he was witnessing, and made the equivalent of 'Pascal's Wager' (look it up). Which is probably a prudent thing to do. Anyone who has read Pinayhunter's posts knows he's not a mindless product of indoctrination, as you imply. No actually you don't imply it, you state it explicitly. Obviously he's not going to respond to you.

[Aron]

@gsjackson

Actually my earlier response to pinayhunter in the 'How do agnostics/atheists form their philosophical beliefs?'wasn't rude at all. But for the one here, sure, i guess you could say it was.

Yes I know he bases it on the expressions of the person in the video. What I also know is that Pascal's Wager makes no sense. Believing something because you don't want to be punished if the religion is true isn't rational when there are countless religions that theoretically could somehow be true and lead to your punishment for being a non believer. Meanwhile, even if you thought Christianity seemed true, saying you would 'make yourself believe' would accomplish nothing, since if God is omniscient, he would know you were just faking it anyways. True beliefs are not made, they are just arrived at, you find yourself believing something because it is the most coherent explanation you can think of, not because you want it to be true. What is true is separate from whatever you think should be true.

With that out of the way, we can get to the problem I brought up to pinayhunter with mentioning Euthyphro's Dilemma. What is your moral belief system? Do you think morality is objective, or do you believe in divine command theory where God decides (arbitrarily) what is right or wrong? Or do you believe something else?

If you want to know my opinion, I think morality is objective, but that because it is objective it's necessarily impossible for anyone to alter objective morality, as in divine command theory where God decides arbitrarily what is right and wrong. I also don't think there is some omnipotent God controlling everything.

@MrMan
What makes you think that? What evidence convinced you?