The Argument "You Don't Deserve a Girlfriend Just For Being X"

[yick]

@yick @Shemp

You're not saying anything I haven't already heard a zillion times. I'm already aware of all this stuff. And quite frankly, I'm not talking about myself. I've given on American women, I'm going to get myself a sweet Thai girlfriend.

However, I am absolutely disgusted by the current state of dating in the West and I am determined as a lifelong mission alongside getting my Thai wife to make sure this way of life does not spread to the rest of the world and possibly that it even ends in the West. But this defeatist, individualist mindset is not going to accomplish that. Why is the single underclass so eager to jump on other men who suffer from the same issues as they do? They seem more determined to preserve their pride then they do to form an alliance with other men and actually change things in a positive direction. Why are you as an individual not able to change things? Because most of the other guys in the same situation as you are think in a pure individualist way.

What we need to do, is think in a more collectivist, tribalistic way. Have you guys learned nothing from the past three years? You get mad because certain guys are "whiners." Well look at the US right now? Our government literally just got taken over by the whiniest group in society. Whining works. The louder you whine and the more determined you are with it, eventually it works. Every change and revolution that has ever happened occurred because a big enough group of "whiners" decided they weren't gonna put up with it anymore. Whiny colonists who didn't like paying taxes created the entire nation of the US. It doesn't matter who you are. Trannies are 0.6% of the population and now managed to get the government and corporate world to cater to them even though they are insane. Virgin males at the age of about 30 or so on the other hand are 4.5% of the population and the percentage of men aged 22-35 who failed to have sex in 2018 was 28%. We are a much bigger group then the trannies are, but we are held back by self-loathing, a competitive attitude towards one another, and a lack of tribalistic unity.

We are the only group in society that actually repeats our enemies' talking points against ourselves. Wtf is up with that? Nice guys do deserve to be rewarded, when you stop rewarding good behavior in society, you're not gonna get good behavior anymore. Why do you think so many men are becoming thugs now? Why do you think thug culture has exploded in the past 40 years? Being a thug is what is rewarded by society now. Thugs existed in the 50s too but by today's standards, they were wimps. They pretty much just looked and acted like school bullies. Nowadays, the thugs are murdering children in the streets. You don't think that American society's attitudes towards good men has something to do with that? Listen to men like Tupac, they say the exact same things as we are saying about how women don't like any guy who is nice, that they got shat on for being nice, and look at what happened to Tupac? He became a gangster. This is what happens when society decides to actively deincentivize good behavior. I do miss the 1950s, because back then, mothers told their daughters to marry good men and would get angry at them for marrying bad boys. Obviously some still did it, but it was a lot less common then it is today.

Yes the world is open now, and thank God for that. But who knows how much longer that will last with the globohomo determined to destroy every country on Earth that isn't like America.

I wouldn't want my daughters marry someone who is "just nice", I want them to marry someone who brings something to the table aside from being friendly and agreeable. Like, good looks. Who wants ugly grandchildren. Some money, stability. Because who wants starving grandchildren? It's all about what a partner can offer. An ugly dude with no job, no career, no degree, no ambition, just... a friendly smile and a nice word for everyone. Who the hell wants that?

I look at the world a bit differently now that I am a father. Girls look for someone who has good genes. Bad boy or good boy, matters little. It's like that on the savannah, too. We are all just animals at the end of the day. Humans are just animals in clothes with a thin veneer of respectability and civility, but you know just as well as I do that it's all nonsense at the end of the day. No need to be naive.

I'm not saying broke and ugly nice guys should be married to beautiful girls. But I do think that how good the guy is, is about as important as things like looks and money.

Let's say a guy is a good guy, rich, and either good or average looking. I think this guy should have priority over everyone. The good looking one would have priority over the average looking one, but that's pretty much it. I wouldn't give priority to a good looking asshole who is rich over a good guy, who is rich, but average looking.

Let's say it comes down to two guys. One guy is a good guy, who earns a medium amount of money, and has average looks. Now let's say another guy is an asshole, but is rich and has good looks. I would tell my theoretical daughter to marry the first guy. The first guy won't be able to provide a lavish lifestyle, but I am confident he is not going to abuse her. I also have to consider the genetic impact that would have on the world as well as my personal genetic legacy if I encouraged my daughter, assuming she is beautiful, to reproduce with an asshole.

Now if the situation was a nice guy, but he was disabled and ugly... Then I see your point.

However, what I am saying is that the guy being good is an important factor whereas people these days actually seem like they are treating it as a negative sometimes.

A nice man isn't important, it is just something that can be stated as a positive thing but it isn't the overall personality trait that is important.

And what's a nice person anyway? Someone who is polite or does good things on a regular basis or is good to strangers, their family, has a lots of friends... what constitutes a nice person and say we have a fat and ugly woman who's nice and a beautiful woman who is not so nice - she isn't a bitch but she has her off days - who are you going to pick to date?

[Shemp]

An ugly dude with no job, no career, no degree, no ambition, ... Who the hell wants that?

This argument may go over your head, Marcos (and I'm not trying to gaslight you by implying your a little slow up top, because that would be against forum rules) but the following argument is complex, so pay close attention. As a father, you would probably be disappointed to learn that your children might not reproduce, and even if they reproduce, then the grandchildren won't. That is, knowing your genetic line was destined to extinction in at most 2 more generations would make the work of raising a family seem futile. Obviously, current pleasure you get from children would still exist regardless of this future extinction of your line, but I am pretty certain, based on your posting here, that extinction is not what you want.

Now forget your family and Philippines for a minute and think of USA and Europe. Middle class white people in those countries are slowly going extinct, and middle class white girls know this. The disappointment you would feel upon learning your children would not reproduce is small compared to this disappointment a mother feels. But middle class white girls know this disappointment awaits them AND THEY CAN'T STOP IT. Yes, they can produce children themselves, but they can't force those children to reproduce. So given that extinction is inevitable, one approach is to try to enjoy the decline and live as sterile hedonists, like me.

An alternative is to mate in another society or another social class which is not going extinct. You chose the other society, but this to difficult for middle class white girls. So instead, they mate with a different social class, a class that is still reproducing rapidly. In particular, the scum of society. In the past, mating with scum meant both mother and children would starve, so bad idea. But in today's society, thanks to welfare, scum has the same chance of survival as the elite. High reproductive rate plus same high chance of survival as offspring of the elite means scum is destined to dominate, while the higher classes go extinct. Girls know this, and their animal will to survival and reproduction instincts kicks in at a subconscious level, and makes scum perversely attractive.

In other words, the most sexually attractive men in western Europe and USA are people with extremely low attention spans, little self-discipline, sky high sex drive, no interest in anything except sex, just enough brains to realize that more babies means more welfare. These scum people are sexually attractive because they represent future life. Whereas highly self disciplined, future oriented, moderate sex drive people, the people who made Europe and USA rich, are sexually unattractive because their future is extinction under present conditions. Note that the old rules apply to the Philippines. By local standards there, you have above average intelligence and self discipline, and these are valuable skills in a country where poor people still teeter at the edge of starvation.

I selected bits and pieces of your post to quote, but then you didn't fully address the issue of thugs. Thug itself is not attractive. What is attractive is the subclass where wonen get pregnant starting at 14, then pump out 10 more babies by the time they hit 30. Girl babies grow up and start producing grandchildren at age 14, same as mommy. Boy babies drop out of school at age 14 and thereafter spend most of their time looking for girls like their sisters to impregnate. Either way, mommy gets a huge number of grandchildren and even more great grandchildren. Unlike in Philippines, no risk of starvation if this happens in USA or Europe.

It's daring for middle class white girl to mate into this scum social class, but no more daring than for you to move to Philippines.

I hope no one will think I am being racist in describing the typical scum family, because there is meth-addicted white trash that acts like this, in addition to the usual suspects of ghetto blacks, gypsies, scum arabs and pakistanis, hasidic jews, mormon polygamists, etc.

tl;dr: Most valuable genetic traits under conditions of rich western society are traits which lead to rapid as possible reproduction, especially poor impulse control and high sex drive. Traits which are useful for survival itself, such as high intelligence and self-discipline, are not necessary, because governmental takes care of survival needs of women with lots of young children, and indees these middle class traits are negative under current conditions, because they slow down reproduction. Collectively, traits which lead to high reproductive rate (under current conditions) are scum traits. "Thug" traits is misleading, because thugs usually end up in prison, where they can't reproduce, plus they might kill their children.

P.S. Shit hits the fan when the quality people are insufficient to provide for hordes of useless scum and resources run short. The real great reset, in other words. Coming in about 30 years.

[Summertime]

No I don't.

I am a tall, reasonably good looking person who is fit and healthy AND - happier abroad.

I'm a man. I don't care what you look like. Your sick in the head. Also a liar because your not happy wherever you are.

Of course, that is called self-reflection - is this why you are dateless, jobless and hopeless

Seek medical help. Listen, it's ok. Anyone reading what you type can see you need help. Seek it.

I am great, you are stuck in America and bitter and I knew you had nothing to offer this debate now go away.

Your not great. Not even good. Your a trash person that is part of the problem. Making up a fantasy doesn't make it true. This is not a debate, this is you being told the truth about yourself. Fake bully go away.

[yick]

I am a tall, reasonably good looking person who is fit and healthy AND - happier abroad.



I'm a man. I don't care what you look like. Your sick in the head. Also a liar because your not happy wherever you are.

* You're (you are)

Seek medical help. Listen, it's ok. Anyone reading what you type can see you need help. Seek it.

Still no advice for our OP, just more useless personal attacks...

Your not great. Not even good. Your a trash person that is part of the problem. Making up a fantasy doesn't make it true. This is not a debate, this is you being told the truth about yourself. Fake bully go away.

** You're (you are)

[Outcast9428]

@yick @Shemp

You're not saying anything I haven't already heard a zillion times. I'm already aware of all this stuff. And quite frankly, I'm not talking about myself. I've given on American women, I'm going to get myself a sweet Thai girlfriend.

However, I am absolutely disgusted by the current state of dating in the West and I am determined as a lifelong mission alongside getting my Thai wife to make sure this way of life does not spread to the rest of the world and possibly that it even ends in the West. But this defeatist, individualist mindset is not going to accomplish that. Why is the single underclass so eager to jump on other men who suffer from the same issues as they do? They seem more determined to preserve their pride then they do to form an alliance with other men and actually change things in a positive direction. Why are you as an individual not able to change things? Because most of the other guys in the same situation as you are think in a pure individualist way.

What we need to do, is think in a more collectivist, tribalistic way. Have you guys learned nothing from the past three years? You get mad because certain guys are "whiners." Well look at the US right now? Our government literally just got taken over by the whiniest group in society. Whining works. The louder you whine and the more determined you are with it, eventually it works. Every change and revolution that has ever happened occurred because a big enough group of "whiners" decided they weren't gonna put up with it anymore. Whiny colonists who didn't like paying taxes created the entire nation of the US. It doesn't matter who you are. Trannies are 0.6% of the population and now managed to get the government and corporate world to cater to them even though they are insane. Virgin males at the age of about 30 or so on the other hand are 4.5% of the population and the percentage of men aged 22-35 who failed to have sex in 2018 was 28%. We are a much bigger group then the trannies are, but we are held back by self-loathing, a competitive attitude towards one another, and a lack of tribalistic unity.

We are the only group in society that actually repeats our enemies' talking points against ourselves. Wtf is up with that? Nice guys do deserve to be rewarded, when you stop rewarding good behavior in society, you're not gonna get good behavior anymore. Why do you think so many men are becoming thugs now? Why do you think thug culture has exploded in the past 40 years? Being a thug is what is rewarded by society now. Thugs existed in the 50s too but by today's standards, they were wimps. They pretty much just looked and acted like school bullies. Nowadays, the thugs are murdering children in the streets. You don't think that American society's attitudes towards good men has something to do with that? Listen to men like Tupac, they say the exact same things as we are saying about how women don't like any guy who is nice, that they got shat on for being nice, and look at what happened to Tupac? He became a gangster. This is what happens when society decides to actively deincentivize good behavior. I do miss the 1950s, because back then, mothers told their daughters to marry good men and would get angry at them for marrying bad boys. Obviously some still did it, but it was a lot less common then it is today.

Yes the world is open now, and thank God for that. But who knows how much longer that will last with the globohomo determined to destroy every country on Earth that isn't like America.

I wouldn't want my daughters marry someone who is "just nice", I want them to marry someone who brings something to the table aside from being friendly and agreeable. Like, good looks. Who wants ugly grandchildren. Some money, stability. Because who wants starving grandchildren? It's all about what a partner can offer. An ugly dude with no job, no career, no degree, no ambition, just... a friendly smile and a nice word for everyone. Who the hell wants that?

I look at the world a bit differently now that I am a father. Girls look for someone who has good genes. Bad boy or good boy, matters little. It's like that on the savannah, too. We are all just animals at the end of the day. Humans are just animals in clothes with a thin veneer of respectability and civility, but you know just as well as I do that it's all nonsense at the end of the day. No need to be naive.

I'm not saying broke and ugly nice guys should be married to beautiful girls. But I do think that how good the guy is, is about as important as things like looks and money.

Let's say a guy is a good guy, rich, and either good or average looking. I think this guy should have priority over everyone. The good looking one would have priority over the average looking one, but that's pretty much it. I wouldn't give priority to a good looking asshole who is rich over a good guy, who is rich, but average looking.

Let's say it comes down to two guys. One guy is a good guy, who earns a medium amount of money, and has average looks. Now let's say another guy is an asshole, but is rich and has good looks. I would tell my theoretical daughter to marry the first guy. The first guy won't be able to provide a lavish lifestyle, but I am confident he is not going to abuse her. I also have to consider the genetic impact that would have on the world as well as my personal genetic legacy if I encouraged my daughter, assuming she is beautiful, to reproduce with an asshole.

Now if the situation was a nice guy, but he was disabled and ugly... Then I see your point.

However, what I am saying is that the guy being good is an important factor whereas people these days actually seem like they are treating it as a negative sometimes.

A nice man isn't important, it is just something that can be stated as a positive thing but it isn't the overall personality trait that is important.

And what's a nice person anyway? Someone who is polite or does good things on a regular basis or is good to strangers, their family, has a lots of friends... what constitutes a nice person and say we have a fat and ugly woman who's nice and a beautiful woman who is not so nice - she isn't a bitch but she has her off days - who are you going to pick to date?

How is that not an important trait? Don’t be overly specific about what I mean with nice guy. It means you are a good person.

I already said that I do think it’s more reasonable if somebody actually has seriously bad traits otherwise like being fat or ugly. However, if I was to choose between a sweet plain looking girl vs a hot bitchy girl. I would definitely choose the sweet plain looking girl. The same should apply to men. I think anybody who would choose otherwise either has very messed up personal values or they are just an idiot with no foresight.

[Outcast9428]

An ugly dude with no job, no career, no degree, no ambition, ... Who the hell wants that?

This argument may go over your head, Marcos (and I'm not trying to gaslight you by implying your a little slow up top, because that would be against forum rules) but the following argument is complex, so pay close attention. As a father, you would probably be disappointed to learn that your children might not reproduce, and even if they reproduce, then the grandchildren won't. That is, knowing your genetic line was destined to extinction in at most 2 more generations would make the work of raising a family seem futile. Obviously, current pleasure you get from children would still exist regardless of this future extinction of your line, but I am pretty certain, based on your posting here, that extinction is not what you want.

Now forget your family and Philippines for a minute and think of USA and Europe. Middle class white people in those countries are slowly going extinct, and middle class white girls know this. The disappointment you would feel upon learning your children would not reproduce is small compared to this disappointment a mother feels. But middle class white girls know this disappointment awaits them AND THEY CAN'T STOP IT. Yes, they can produce children themselves, but they can't force those children to reproduce. So given that extinction is inevitable, one approach is to try to enjoy the decline and live as sterile hedonists, like me.

An alternative is to mate in another society or another social class which is not going extinct. You chose the other society, but this to difficult for middle class white girls. So instead, they mate with a different social class, a class that is still reproducing rapidly. In particular, the scum of society. In the past, mating with scum meant both mother and children would starve, so bad idea. But in today's society, thanks to welfare, scum has the same chance of survival as the elite. High reproductive rate plus same high chance of survival as offspring of the elite means scum is destined to dominate, while the higher classes go extinct. Girls know this, and their animal will to survival and reproduction instincts kicks in at a subconscious level, and makes scum perversely attractive.

In other words, the most sexually attractive men in western Europe and USA are people with extremely low attention spans, little self-discipline, sky high sex drive, no interest in anything except sex, just enough brains to realize that more babies means more welfare. These scum people are sexually attractive because they represent future life. Whereas highly self disciplined, future oriented, moderate sex drive people, the people who made Europe and USA rich, are sexually unattractive because their future is extinction under present conditions. Note that the old rules apply to the Philippines. By local standards there, you have above average intelligence and self discipline, and these are valuable skills in a country where poor people still teeter at the edge of starvation.

I selected bits and pieces of your post to quote, but then you didn't fully address the issue of thugs. Thug itself is not attractive. What is attractive is the subclass where wonen get pregnant starting at 14, then pump out 10 more babies by the time they hit 30. Girl babies grow up and start producing grandchildren at age 14, same as mommy. Boy babies drop out of school at age 14 and thereafter spend most of their time looking for girls like their sisters to impregnate. Either way, mommy gets a huge number of grandchildren and even more great grandchildren. Unlike in Philippines, no risk of starvation if this happens in USA or Europe.

It's daring for middle class white girl to mate into this scum social class, but no more daring than for you to move to Philippines.

I hope no one will think I am being racist in describing the typical scum family, because there is meth-addicted white trash that acts like this, in addition to the usual suspects of ghetto blacks, gypsies, scum arabs and pakistanis, hasidic jews, mormon polygamists, etc.

tl;dr: Most valuable genetic traits under conditions of rich western society are traits which lead to rapid as possible reproduction, especially poor impulse control and high sex drive. Traits which are useful for survival itself, such as high intelligence and self-discipline, are not necessary, because governmental takes care of survival needs of women with lots of young children, and indees these middle class traits are negative under current conditions, because they slow down reproduction. Collectively, traits which lead to high reproductive rate (under current conditions) are scum traits. "Thug" traits is misleading, because thugs usually end up in prison, where they can't reproduce, plus they might kill their children.

P.S. Shit hits the fan when the quality people are insufficient to provide for hordes of useless scum and resources run short. The real great reset, in other words. Coming in about 30 years.

I don’t think having a high sex drive is necessarily a trait associated with scum. Having a high sex drive doesn’t mean that you are promiscuous. I have a very high sex drive and according to my mother, so does my father. I’ve known other people who definitely had a high sex drive and were good people.

I don’t really know why having a high sex drive has become associated with promiscuity. None of the promiscuous people I’ve known (except for some of the girls) struck me as having a high sex drive. They mostly just seem like indecisive people who have a more cold perspective on sex then other people do. My dad and I however are very oriented towards monogamy.

[Summertime]

Still no advice for our OP, just more useless personal attacks...

Again I didn't personal attack you. I just told you the truth. And I gave great advice. Don't listen to you or the other whiners.

[yick]

How is that not an important trait?

Because the concept of niceness is very vague and most people are nice some of the time.

Don’t be overly specific about what I mean with nice guy. It means you are a good person.

The problem is however some men adopt a 'nice guy persona' with women they want to date and have sex with, they're not nice guys at all and get upset that being 'nice' to women doesn't reward them with romance and sex - it is a tired trope that has been played out for many years which is why being 'nice' isn't enough and you need to have more going for you - men are nice to women they fancy and want to date and have sex with and vice versa.

I already said that I do think it’s more reasonable if somebody actually has seriously bad traits otherwise like being fat or ugly.

There you go.

However, if I was to choose between a sweet plain looking girl vs a hot bitchy girl. I would definitely choose the sweet plain looking girl. The same should apply to men. I think anybody who would choose otherwise either has very messed up personal values or they are just an idiot with no foresight.

This is the problem with a lot of men who come on here - they want to change the world into something different than what it is - now that's being an idiot because what you want isn't going to come about anytime soon - to get a woman - any woman - you need to be more than a 'nice' person - most men are nice to women they want to f**k as well as sometimes charming, handsome, fit, funny, witty, intelligent, well dressed, tall, ravishing smile etc etc

Being 'nice' isn't enough on its own. Wouldn't it be nice if that was enough and that is all you had to do but no, getting a woman is a competitive endeavour and you need more to compete with the other men who want the same woman as you - and it has always been the same - if you think it is going to change to what you want then you'll be waiting a long time.

[yick]

Again I didn't personal attack you.

* Again, I didn't attack you personally.

I just told you the truth

We have never met, so that is a big fat lie, right there.

and I gave great advice. Don't listen to you or the other whiners.

You're now whining about someone giving advice

That's because you have been nowhere and done nothing and aren't able to give advice over something you haven't done yourself.

[yick]

Some women will judge on your job (and career if you have one...)

Some women will judge you on your education and intelligence

Some women will judge you on the money you make

Some women will judge you on your height and looks

Some women will judge you on your physique and weight

Some women will judge you on your material possessions

Some women will judge you on the way you dress and your personal hygiene

Some women will judge you on your hair (or lack of...)

Some women will judge you on your race/nationality/colour of skin

Some women will judge you on how you speak and your accent and the way you speak their language (if you are a non-native speaker of course...)

Some women will judge you on all the above (actually, quite a lot of them will...)

There are so many things you are judged on as a man... some of these things you can improve and some of them you simply cannot - you'll never become taller than what you are once you reach adult age - some things you can change and improve - losing weight is one... so, take a good honest look at yourself and decide what things are there to be changed and change them and you will be further along than most...

[Shemp]

I don’t think having a high sex drive is necessarily a trait associated with scum.

The point is that, under present conditions, scum reproduces rapidly, quality does not, regardless of sex drive. Therefore, scum is attractive, quality is not. Scum is attractive to other scum, but also perversely attractive to quality. Quality is boring and unattractive to both scum and quality. Things were different in the past.

It is impossible to make yourself into scum if you are naturally quality. If you were natural scum, you would have started having sex at 13 with town sluts and garbage black girls from the ghetto, and the fact that you had sex with such acum would then make you attractive to other scum, and pretty soon you would have several bastard children of scummy single mothers, though you wouldn't really care about these children and would try to avoid paying child support. If you didn't act like this when you were a teenager, you can't pretend to be scum now, because your fakery will be too evident.

Quality women in the past were disgusted by men who associated with scum, because of the risk of STDs or having part of the man's money siphoned off as child support, to speak nothing of the shame of being indirectly associated with scum. In today's world, government policies collude to make quality couples sterile, and quality women know this, which makes forming a quality couple sexually boring, so quality men are boring by extension. Only scum is sexually exciting under present conditions.

Like I wrote, situation will change in 30 years or so, when the welfare spigot gets turned off. In the meantime, you can go to poor countries, where quality men are still valued, such as Philippines or Africa. But then you have to live in those countries, and they are poor for a reason and you will always be an outsider and outsiders often get killed when the going gets tough, as it will in the future.

Other possibility is just be a hedonist and pay prostitutes. Whores are readily in places like Mexican border towns, Colombia, etc. Practice safe sex.

[Cornfed]

I don’t think having a high sex drive is necessarily a trait associated with scum.

The point is that, under present conditions, scum reproduces rapidly, quality does not, regardless of sex drive. Therefore, scum is attractive, quality is not. Scum is attractive to other scum, but also perversely attractive to quality. Quality is boring and unattractive to both scum and quality. Things were different in the past.

It is impossible to make yourself into scum if you are naturally quality. If you were natural scum, you would have started having sex at 13 with town sluts and garbage black girls from the ghetto, and the fact that you had sex with such acum would then make you attractive to other scum, and pretty soon you would have several bastard children of scummy single mothers, though you wouldn't really care about these children and would try to avoid paying child support. If you didn't act like this when you were a teenager, you can't pretend to be scum now, because your fakery will be too evident.

Quality women in the past were disgusted by men who associated with scum, because of the risk of STDs or having part of the man's money siphoned off as child support, to speak nothing of the shame of being indirectly associated with scum. In today's world, government policies collude to make quality couples sterile, and quality women know this, which makes forming a quality couple sexually boring, so quality men are boring by extension. Only scum is sexually exciting under present conditions.

Like I wrote, situation will change in 30 years or so, when the welfare spigot gets turned off. In the meantime, you can go to poor countries, where quality men are still valued, such as Philippines or Africa. But then you have to live in those countries, and they are poor for a reason and you will always be an outsider and outsiders often get killed when the going gets tough, as it will in the future.

Other possibility is just be a hedonist and pay prostitutes. Whores are readily in places like Mexican border towns, Colombia, etc. Practice safe sex.

Did you read my previous post? It would seem we are somewhat in agreement:
viewtopic.php?t=20929

[yick]

I'll go on another path different from Frank and state that people with high sex drives are more susceptible to corruption, treachery and larceny - the former Soviet Union would regularly use 'honey traps' to seduce people of power in western countries during the Cold War which ended up with governments overthrown - the UK are going through this right now where a high-up government minister has paid out hundreds of thousands of pounds of government money to the consulting company of his mistress.

That's not to say everyone with a high sex drive is susceptible but many are prone to making bad decisions looking for the thrill of seeking new flesh to have sex with. It can range from losing your wife, kids and house to losing your life or going to prison.

[Outcast9428]

How is that not an important trait?

Because the concept of niceness is very vague and most people are nice some of the time.

Don’t be overly specific about what I mean with nice guy. It means you are a good person.

The problem is however some men adopt a 'nice guy persona' with women they want to date and have sex with, they're not nice guys at all and get upset that being 'nice' to women doesn't reward them with romance and sex - it is a tired trope that has been played out for many years which is why being 'nice' isn't enough and you need to have more going for you - men are nice to women they fancy and want to date and have sex with and vice versa.

I already said that I do think it’s more reasonable if somebody actually has seriously bad traits otherwise like being fat or ugly.

There you go.

However, if I was to choose between a sweet plain looking girl vs a hot bitchy girl. I would definitely choose the sweet plain looking girl. The same should apply to men. I think anybody who would choose otherwise either has very messed up personal values or they are just an idiot with no foresight.

This is the problem with a lot of men who come on here - they want to change the world into something different than what it is - now that's being an idiot because what you want isn't going to come about anytime soon - to get a woman - any woman - you need to be more than a 'nice' person - most men are nice to women they want to f**k as well as sometimes charming, handsome, fit, funny, witty, intelligent, well dressed, tall, ravishing smile etc etc

Being 'nice' isn't enough on its own. Wouldn't it be nice if that was enough and that is all you had to do but no, getting a woman is a competitive endeavour and you need more to compete with the other men who want the same woman as you - and it has always been the same - if you think it is going to change to what you want then you'll be waiting a long time.

No it really is not a vague concept.

You are doing exactly what I mentioned before about repeating our enemies' talking points against ourselves. Acting as if a guy trying to be a good person and hoping it will result in a romantic reward is somehow a bad thing. Feminists act as if no guy who wants sex is "a real nice guy." This comes from feminists' absurdly frigid and prudish perspective on the world, basically acting as if interacting with a girl because you want her romantically automatically makes you a bad guy. A guy acts nice to a girl in order to advertise his best qualities. He's saying this is how he'll treat her once they are in a relationship. There's nothing wrong with this anymore then it is wrong for a girl to mention volunteering at an animal shelter in order to advertise her best qualities.

I said to him that if a guy was nice but couldn't earn any income and was ugly that it was more understandable but in the cases we are talking about, we are referring to people who have very negative qualities that are enough to override the nice quality. What I am referring to is the fact that women dismiss guys who are say, plain looking, or even above average looking, and nice. This is where I actually have a problem with their behavior. Back in college, every dickhead I knew could get laid either every weekend or almost every weekend while all the nice guys I knew were either completely sexless the entire time or maybe got laid once in their entire 4 years. This is because women actively dislike nice guys. And you act as if there's no problem with women having this attitude or "we can't change it so stop complaining about it."

The world would change if people stopped adopting this "nothing's ever gonna happen so just give up." You have adopted a defeatist attitude. The world can and does change quite often when enough people get pissed off at the way it is. This is why complaining is good, people need to know that other people are pissed off too and the more complaining people do, the more likely it is that things will change. As for me, I consider this situation to be so intolerable that I will dedicate the rest of my life to subverting this social system and trying to replace it with one that is more just.

[Shemp]

Did you read my previous post? It would seem we are somewhat in agreement:
viewtopic.php?t=20929

Maybe. I know you and fschmidt have made the same point in various threads here, so if I didn't read that thread, I definitely read others like it.

Meanwhile, poor OP is thinking he can turn the ocean yellow by pissing in it. One thing Marx got right was the idea of historical necessity. Individuals can have no positive impact on the system, though people at the very top sometimes can have a negative impact. What is fated to happen, must happen. All we can do as individuals is try to avoid being crushed under the wheels as the great machine of historical necessity lumbers forwards.