Why do you guys think that many people don't learn other languages?

[Shemp]

Because learning a foreign language takes a ****ing immense amount of effort, with arguably little payoff until you reach a certain point of fluency if you ever do. I spent the last year and a half learning Vietnamese

It's not so much effort as time. It's possible to cram learn a language like Vietnamese in a year, if you study 12 hours/day, 5 days/week like at DLI (defense language institute) but then the language is forgotten just as quickly if not used/reviewed frequently. A better approach is a steady hour/day for like 10 years straight, with no breaks. Learning slowly allows the knowledge to consolidate better.

This is my approach with Russian/Ukrainian. But then I'm retired and my hour or two per day of language study is my only mental exercise (browsing and shit posting on the internet doesn't count as mental exercise), so my mind would feel bad if I skipped my daily mental workout, same as my body feels bad if I skip my 30 minutes/day of physical exercise.

If someone has a job, that hour/day will feel like a heavy burden well before the 10 year mark is reached.

As for payoff, you get a very high payoff at the initial A1+ level, when you can read basic signs and ask basic directions. The next payoff isn't until B2+ speaking/listening and C1 reading, when you can actually function normally in society. From A1+ to this higher level is indeed an immense amount of time with languages like Vietnamese or Russian/Ukrainian.

[MrMan]

@MrMan I was talking about West Sumatra. The Minangkabau country. I flew into Padang, which didn't impress me. That's the usual way with cities in Indonesia. This was 2013 my first time out of Jakarta or Bali. Up in the mountain town of Bukittingi, there were a lot of hotels and a few guides but not many tourists.

I have been to Padang and Bukit Tinggi, but it has probably been over 20 years now. I think we stayed in some little hotel in Bukit Tinggi not far from the Goa Japan, an underground plus-shaped bunker they say the Japanese hired people to build, then killed them and dumped them in an underground stream instead of paying them at the end of the job. Some western backpackers talked about backpacking up a mountain there overnight to see the unrise in the morning. I suggested this to my wife, then we both decided.... naaaah... We weren't that adventurous or athletic. And we were probably kind of worn out from bus trips.

I was able to get a salad with dressing besides 'island' dressing in one of those little restaurants. The cook had worked at a hotel in Africa. He made a dressing out of yellow mustard, oil, garlic, and sugar. I used that since in Indonesia where it was hard to get salad dressings.

The architecture in that part of the world was interesting - the houses have those curved gable roofs. I climbed Marapi too (not Merapi), there was one there foreigner up there when I got to the top...but that can happen in Java too on the less touristy peaks. the Minangkabau country is scenic and I enjoyed just wandering around and taking bemos. I heard the closeby Mentawi islands attract surfers but the islands were wrecked by the Tsunami.

20 years ago, I suspect it was possible to take buses from the southern border of Aceh in Sumatra all the way over to at least Lombok. But people got cars and with Gojek and Grab-- Uber-like apps, the bus business seems to have died down quite a lot.

I've been to Lake Toba and agree it's a wonderful spot. I didn't like the drive from Medan much though, horrible road, crazy driver. An airport there would suit me. I don't think it'll get overrun by tourists any time soon. The hotel I stayed at was cheap and had a range of booze and western food. There are cafes catering tourists on the lake if that's your thing. But nothing like Bali, which is just complete overkill. I dunno if I'd go back to Sumatra...I definitely don't think my girlfriend would like it. I'd like to try out Kalimantan maybe...or Ambon -- probably my favourite trip was Ternate and Tidore -- still a lot of colonial history from Portuguese and Dutch times and some of the people sort of look like a cross between Javanese and Papuans. But after that I flew to Manado in North Sulawesi and it was average. In Indonesia, you need to make an effort to get out of those regional cities to see something interesting.

You've probably seen more variety in the country than I have. I was busy working. I did get to take work trips to Medan, Semarang, and a few other places. I've been around Java and Sumatra a bit, including villages, and I've made a trip to Manado. I stopped in Lombok on a trip to Sumbawa. I've been to Bali, also, for vacation and errand-running. I'd like to go to Kalimantan. My wife might get some land near the new capital. I've seen at least one person posting it should be called 'Dayakarta', which makes sense in Indonesian, and also makes sense because the Dayak live there, but I don't know if the government has named it yet.

[MrMan]

@MrMan I was talking about West Sumatra. The Minangkabau country. I flew into Padang, which didn't impress me. That's the usual way with cities in Indonesia. This was 2013 my first time out of Jakarta or Bali. Up in the mountain town of Bukittingi, there were a lot of hotels and a few guides but not many tourists.

I have been to Padang and Bukit Tinggi, but it has probably been over 20 years now. I think we stayed in some little hotel in Bukit Tinggi not far from the Goa Japan, an underground plus-shaped bunker they say the Japanese hired people to build, then killed them and dumped them in an underground stream instead of paying them at the end of the job. Some western backpackers talked about backpacking up a mountain there overnight to see the unrise in the morning. I suggested this to my wife, then we both decided.... naaaah... We weren't that adventurous or athletic. And we were probably kind of worn out from bus trips.

I was able to get a salad with dressing besides 'island' dressing in one of those little restaurants. The cook had worked at a hotel in Africa. He made a dressing out of yellow mustard, oil, garlic, and sugar. I used that since in Indonesia where it was hard to get salad dressings.

The architecture in that part of the world was interesting - the houses have those curved gable roofs. I climbed Marapi too (not Merapi), there was one there foreigner up there when I got to the top...but that can happen in Java too on the less touristy peaks. the Minangkabau country is scenic and I enjoyed just wandering around and taking bemos. I heard the closeby Mentawi islands attract surfers but the islands were wrecked by the Tsunami.

20 years ago, I suspect it was possible to take buses from the southern border of Aceh in Sumatra all the way over to at least Lombok. But people got cars and with Gojek and Grab-- Uber-like apps, the bus business seems to have died down quite a lot.

I've been to Lake Toba and agree it's a wonderful spot. I didn't like the drive from Medan much though, horrible road, crazy driver. An airport there would suit me. I don't think it'll get overrun by tourists any time soon. The hotel I stayed at was cheap and had a range of booze and western food. There are cafes catering tourists on the lake if that's your thing. But nothing like Bali, which is just complete overkill. I dunno if I'd go back to Sumatra...I definitely don't think my girlfriend would like it. I'd like to try out Kalimantan maybe...or Ambon -- probably my favourite trip was Ternate and Tidore -- still a lot of colonial history from Portuguese and Dutch times and some of the people sort of look like a cross between Javanese and Papuans. But after that I flew to Manado in North Sulawesi and it was average. In Indonesia, you need to make an effort to get out of those regional cities to see something interesting.

You've probably seen more variety in the country than I have. I was busy working. I did get to take work trips to Medan, Semarang, and a few other places. I've been around Java and Sumatra a bit, including villages, and I've made a trip to Manado. I stopped in Lombok on a trip to Sumbawa. I've been to Bali, also, for vacation and errand-running. I'd like to go to Kalimantan. My wife might get some land near the new capital. I've seen at least one person posting it should be called 'Dayakarta', which makes sense in Indonesian, and also makes sense because the Dayak live there, but I don't know if the government has named it yet.