Deep philosophical/esoteric films worth checking out

[Winston]

Me and El_Caudillo have been talking about deep esoteric fantasy films from the past. I asked him if we could post the discussion here and he said ok.

Winston:

I remember you mentioned something about the film "Dark Crystal". What was it? You mean this?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083791/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

It definitely has Illuminati occult symbolism in it. See below image from Dark Crystal with the triangle with the circle in the center. I've seen that in thousands of films and TV shows, even in Star Trek and horror films from the 70's. I can give many examples. The elite definitely like to put these same symbols in films for some reason. You can't deny that.

The Dark Crystal was a great movie for kids in the 80s, but I don't think it would entertain an adult today...to get an idea about the movie this short retrospective will suffice

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD6fl5vyryM[/youtube]

The story of the movie really struck a chord with me as a kid - that good and evil must unite to form a stable world. During the scary bits I had to hide under the seat in the cinema lol.

What I said was that you and Janet Hsieh were like the two kind of creatures in the Dark Crystal that were in fact halves of one being that had been split by unfourtunate events. You would be the evil side - the Skeksies and she would be the good side the Mystics (not that she's very mystic). I was saying all that in a lighthearted way.

I'm starting to get into this idea that Egyptian civilization goes back 30,000 years instead of 5,000, some of the evidence is quite convincing. And no I don't think the Pharaohs were Aliens, that sounds just like pure speculation. Anyway this idea that the Egyptians were focused on immortality and that is our mission too is quite alluring. By the way I have a history degree - so I rate my ability to some extent to distinguish a quack from a decent theorist who does genuine research. In fact I didn't learn that at university - I just think I have relatively intelligent judgement. But who knows?

Winston:

Yes I remember this movie now. I saw it when I was a kid. But I didn't understand what was going on. When a movie loses me, I just leave it running in the background and don't focus on it anymore. lol. Some movies are like that. The dialogue sounds gibberish and not clear and so they are hard to follow. Not as easy to follow as Joel Osteen's speeches. lol

I saw the retrospective video. I'll download Dark Crystal anyway and see if I can follow it this time. Did you see the retrospective video for "The Neverending Story"? That was one of my favorites and easy to understand. It was one of the most memorable films of the 80's. And it contains a lesson for Taiwanese people too about losing their imagination for the practical world, which creates the nothingness enveloping Fantasia. lol

Yeah I figured out long ago that good and evil are necessary for the world to exist. So the world can never be completely good or evil.

Yeah Egypt is interesting. But all ancient societies talk about the gods from the skies. So some researchers interpret that as aliens. You should see the Ancient Aliens series on History Channel. There are still some episodes on YouTube but a lot of them were taken down.

You have a history degree? A BA? Even a lot of quacks have some truth in their theories. Did you know that a lot of history books contain lies? For example, the real reasons for the American Revolution and the War of 1812 are not given in school history books or even PBS documentaries. When you go to the Library of Congress and read original source documents, you find that they tell a different story. Men like Eustace Mullins have done that and revealed stuff that was covered up, but known before. Are you aware of stuff like that? There are many examples.

Can I post what you said about Dark Crystal in the forum? lol

So I've changed my mind, you are the mystics and Janet the Skekses....

"The eastern dualist conceptions are marked in the film, as mentioned. The Skekses represent the left hand path of severity and cruelty, control and empire, while the “gentle mystics” are supposed to represent the “gentle ways of natural wizards.” The Skekses, then, are harbingers of technology and power – they harness the Dark Crystal for the purpose of advanced control mechanisms and even brainwashing (yes, brainwashing), while the mystics are purported to be in tune with nature and the forest. The Mystics, as is worth noting, chant the Buddhist “Om,” further reinforcing the eastern dualist religious conceptions, while the Skekses are busy enacting the “Ceremony of the Sun” for the passing of the Emperor, which brings to mind ancient Egyptian theology, and it’s identification of Pharoah as son of Ra."

https://jaysanalysis.com/2011/02/27/the ... -analysis/

Winston:

Well each group thinks the other side is "the dark side". Even the Nazis saw themselves as the forces of good and the other side as the forces of evil. I heard a theory that the ancient world was divided into two sides too, one ruled by the cult of the sun and the other by the cult of the moon. Both sides consider the other to be the "dark side" lol. No one thinks of themselves as "the bad guys or forces or evil". lol

That's a very deep esoteric theme then in Dark Crystal. It would make sense that the forces that want control and empire and world domination are sun worshippers. You see sun worship in all religions. If you go to any Christian, Muslim or Buddhist place of worship you will see icons and behind the heads of those icons are suns or sun disks. They are even in paintings too if you want to look them up. They are in the majority of Christian, Catholic, Muslim and Buddhist icons and paintings. Always there's a sun disk behind the head. In fact, church is usually on SUNday, which is the day of the sun. So there's a theory that all religion is sun worship in disguise. The all seeing eye also looks like a sun.

I had the opposite experience from you, I couldn't really get into the Neverending Story - and the book less than the movie - but that's an interesting point about the lesson for the Taiwanese and loss of imagination. Yea sure you can put what I said about the Dark Crystal on the forum. I read that The Labyrinth was a kind of journey to the underworld story. That was another Jim Henson film I loved as a kid, I was in love with Jenifer Connolly. About the same time she also stared in 'Once upon a time in America' what a classic that film is!

BTW what is your take on Janet now that you have had time to ruminate. I thought she looked quite genuine when I went into the shop, she was being friendly, but it didn't seem fake. Man I want to steal some of her serotonin.

Winston:

Why not? Didnt you love the music in neverending story? It was very memorable. And the theme was that lack of imagination and conformity to the practical world destroys fantasy worlds like fantasia. That was the deep message. Didnt you get it? The black wolf even explained it at the end when atreyu asked what the nothing was.

The labyrinth was good too. Jennifer connelly was gorgeous in it. Theres a new age guru on youtube now that looks like her. Her name is teal swan. Type that name in youtube and youll see how much she resembles jennifer connelly. Lol

I tried to watch once upon a time in america but it was soooooo slow and boring. I had to stop. It was making me numb from boredom.

We watched dark crystal. It was amusing. But it didnt mention anything about the skeses and mystics needing each other. It just said at the end that we are all one. And the skeses turned into angels of light.

Its interesting that the skeses were called reptilian turds. Maybe its a clue that david icke was right about reptilians ruling the world. Lol

I never gave a second thought about janet hsieh. I didnt see her close up. You should have gone up and asked for her photo with you. Lol.

To me genuine is like darryl sloan. Janet is nowhere near as genuine as him. Lol. See the video i just posted from darryl where he responds to mario. Its so genuine and touching. You can feel his empathy through the video. Wow. Now thats genuine!

[Winston]

Wow this film by Orson Welles based on a book by Franz Kafka has a protagonist that is just like me! lol. For some reason, Orson Welles seemed to resonate with misfits, outcasts, loneliness and alienation, like for example with his famous masterpiece film "Citizen Kane" too, which many experts consider to be one of the greatest films of all time. Why is that? Didn't Orson Welles grow up in the early 1900's when America was social and had human connection and genuine friendliness? Why would he be accustomed to loneliness and isolation and unjust persecution for being different, and make films about it? Anyone have any idea? Anyway, the film is called "The Trial" from 1962. Here's the link and trailer.

Download link:
https://yts.mx/movies/the-trial-1962

Storyline
Josef K wakes up in the morning and finds the police in his room. They tell him that he is on trial but nobody tells him what he is accused of. In order to find out about the reason of this accusation and to protest his innocence, he tries to look behind the facade of the judicial system. But since this remains fruitless, there seems to be no chance for him to escape from this Kafkaesque nightmare.

Trailer: The Trial (1962)



Great review on imdb. Wow doesn't the plot and scenario sound like my life and perhaps many of you here too? lol. Doesn't it describe how many of you feel in America too?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057427/

The Logic of a Nightmare
16 January 2002 | by snazel

The story of The Trial is the story of displacement. The protagonist in the film Josef K, (played by Anthony Perkins), is seemingly from another world. His morality, conduct and philosophy contrast so sharply from the nightmare around him, that one wonders if he was transported to another universe while sleeping. As a result, Josef K has no survival skills in his environment and his adherence to a personal morale code that is totally alien to the world he lives in, consummates his destruction.

Josef K literally awakes in the first scene, to a nightmare that he cannot understand, because his own sense of justice refuses to let him understand it. This is Josef K's downfall. There are survivors in the world painted by this film, grim survivors to be sure, but survivors none the less. Josef K is not one of them.

Josef K, in the context that surrounds him in this film, is dysfunctional. He has neither the character nor the experience to survive in his world. He seems oblivious to the lunacy of his environment and strives for something so completely alien, that one wonders where and how he even conceived of his morale code, given the world he lives in.

This of course, leads to terrific drama and an odd tension for the viewer throughout the entire film. That tension springs from the dichotomy of the film, Josef K's idealism vs. the cruel reality all around him. Perhaps more specifically the tension arises from Josef K's struggle for logic and reason in a world gone haywire with paranoia and corruption.

One of the minor but important strengths of this film is the encapsulation of its theme within the 2-minute anecdote that starts the picture. This prologue uses stark drawings on a wheel to transition from scene to scene and is both a riddle and a parable. It is accompanied by a sinister cello and a deep, cold narration by Orson Welles. The anecdote in the prologue is a tale of a man who 'seeks admittance to the law'. The riddle that is laid before him ends in death and with the realization that the man wasted his life, seeking a universal truth, to a very personal question.

Much later in the film, the character of the Advocate tries to retell the chilling prologue to Josef K. Josef however, dismisses the fairy-tale immediately. Refusing to hear its lesson and how it applies to his predicament. The advocate rightly notes, from the prologue: 'it has been observed that the man came to the law of his own free will'. What I believe Orson Welles is telling us, in this scene, is he personally believes Josef K's character to be guilty. Josef is not guilty of a crime to be sure, but he is guilty in his conscience. Josef's wretched self-righteousness and guilt-complex is ugly, even within the context of all the injustice, corruption and abuse that surround him.

Josef is weak, stubborn and oblivious and I believe Orson tells us subtly, that perhaps he deserves to die. What is also left unsaid by the Advocate is the man in the prologue willingly submitted himself to the lunacy that became his death. The man felt it better to live chained to an ideal, that to roam free in an unjust world. If there is a crime Josef K is guilty of, then that is likely it.

I have never read the novel, but I believe Josef K, is a much more tragic figure in Kafka's eyes. In the eyes of Orson Welles - it's apparent to me that Orson Welles considers Josef K to be neither tragic nor overly heroic.

While it may contrast strikingly with Kafka's intention, I think Welles tries to illustrate somewhat that Josef K, is not a complete victim. While Josef's surroundings are nightmarish beyond belief, Josef never adapts to them. He never learns how to survive or worse, refuses to learn how to survive. He judges his world but he hardly ever truly interacts with it and he immediately becomes distracted whenever he feels someone has transgressed his moral view of things.

While the actions of Josef K are noble and we sympathize with his plight, you feel little remorse for his eventual death, because Josef quite simply just does not belong. Like the creature at the end of metamorphosis, an innocent thing, is perhaps best left to die, because it is alien to its environment.

Like all good work, that interpretation of mine is open to a lot of debate. Which is another great feature of this film, it provokes a reaction and that reaction can help you understand more about yourself and your current surroundings.

I think this is strong work. Orson Welles finds ways to delight your eyes on screen. Some of the performances like Romy Schneider's performance as the mistress of the Advocate are seductive and chilling.

It is interesting that women in this film are perverted, contorted and shallow. The perversion of society in Josef K's world is so pervasive that his own 16-year-old cousin cannot even visit him, without suspicion from his co-workers. Even sex and passion in this world is twisted into secrecy, innuendo and fear. The only true female survivors in this film are women who willingly cast themselves as supplicants to men of power and intrigue. While this message may affront those who are sensitive, it adds another element to the nightmare that makes this film so strong.

The film has a similar parallel to the Bicycle Thief in my opinion. The protagonist is sympathetic but is surrounded by injustice and cruelty that shreds his very existence. In both films, no amount of effort on the protagonist's behalf will solve his dilemma. Both characters struggle to come to terms with their tragic plight. Like Antonio, Josef K's quest is futile and his only salvation is acceptance. Unlike Antonio however, Josef K never truly transforms, he will not sink to the same level as the world around him. This is why we feel so sorry for Antonio at the end of the Bicycle Thief but see the Trial's ending as more inevitable than tragic.

It is sometimes hard to feel sorry for a martyr who wears his thorny crown so smugly. This is where the protagonist of Josef and Antonio (Bicycle Thief) depart. Josef willingly becomes a self-righteous martyr, while Antonio chooses life, even at the expense of his dignity.

The logic of this film is the logic of a dream and a nightmare. The Trial is a moral nightmare - a world where the only options for survival are: lies, hypocrisy and servitude. A sacrifice, Josef K, refuses to make and so his door closes, forever.

[Winston]

Great analysis of the movie "The Trial" by Franz Kafka and its meaning and warning.

[Winston]

@MrPeabody and @tamdrin12 here's one for you.

The Art of Effortless Living (Taoist Documentary)

The Art of Effortless Living is a documentary based on the traditional philosophy and essential teaching of Taoism. The practice of nondoing, nonforcing is the essential aspect of Taoism known as wu-wei. Attributed to the great sage Lao-tzu, the philosophy of wu-wei teaches you how to develop a natural state of consciousness not bound by thought or preconceived limitations. Experienced by the greatest artists, athletes, musicians, and writers, this heightened state of consciousness, referred to as "being in the zone," is where intelligent spontaneity and effortless action flourish via a practice rooted in permitting the natural harmony of the cosmos to prevail. Essentially, how to live life effortlessly. Wu-wei can yield a renewed sense of trust in many aspects of your daily life, making each day more effortless. The Art of Effortless Living provides keen insight on how you can experience the beauty of achieving an enlightened, effortless mind while reveling in the process of life's unfolding.

[Winston]

Some different interpretations of "The Fountain" which contain three quests for life and love and the Tree of Life that are intertwined. It is very beautiful and has multiple interpretations.





Great interpretation in the comments section:

THE GREAT CALM
3 years ago

I generally agree... but.... there are a few things I feel differently...

yes... there are 3 narratives... but not as past present or future... but happening in different realms...

The main Realm is the one on earth.. with his wife dying of the brain tumor... His wife is coming to terms with her immortality... and is released from her own bondage when she realizes... (i mean that in every sense of the word) she REALIZES that death is not an end... but a beginning... TOM being obsessed with the material world... desperately attempts to save his wife from death and keep her in this material realm. But knowing that death is the road to awe... she gives him the task of finishing a story in her book... knowing well that Tom had to reach the realization all on his own... she could not give him the answer... but insisted that he already knew how it would end.

to understand the second Realm... you have to understand a few biblical stories and historical ones too... the second realm is the realm of symbols... where our imagination and our will to create dwells. The first biblical story you must know is the story of Adam and Eve... and the two trees... ONE TREE... the "Forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil" and the second tree... "The Tree of Life"... the bible says that if we eat from one... we will die... but never mentions what happens if we eat from the tree of life... until after man eats from the first tree...so... Man ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil... and it is said that God HID the tree of life from man and what it says that GOD said is important... "behold man has now become like one of us... knowing good and evil..." (presupposing that we didn't know that realm of "Opposites"... the realm of ideas and concepts... where imagination lives... where symbols live) it continues... " let them not reach out and eat from the tree of life or they will live forever"... so God hid the tree and protected it with an angel who guards it with a flaming sword.... the only one that may enter... is JESUS.... he is referred to as the tree of life i think...
so... man is now trapped in a realm we all know as... DUALISM... the realm of opposites... which is not separate from the realm of symbols, ideas, beliefs concepts... etc... in the Conquistador story... aka, the Hero's Journey... Tomas must find the tree of life and eat from it's sap... but... only one person may enter... and he is not allowed as TOMAS... because he is still in the "GOOD AND EVIL" set of mind... and he cannot reach and eat from the tree of life... remember? his mission is to save spain... so realm one (physical challenge) and realm two (mental challenge) he must finish the story...

the third realm... is the spiritual realm... where bubble Tom travels... in it is a tree... and that tree has water... and it provides him with everything he needs... he lives from the tree... but is still attached to it... and his goal is to reach Xibalba... to save the tree... in the first realm, his wife told him the Mayan story of the first father who gave his life to create all of life... saying that his death was the road to awe... it said that the spirit travels to xibalba and when that star dies, they will be reborn... so this version of Tomas is the spirit on the journey to be reborn... then things get really interesting...

realm one... lizzy dies...

realm two... spain is dying...

realm three... the tree is dies...

realm one... tom freaks out.... and lizzy is gone

realm two... the story is unfinished...

realm three... the queen Elizabeth appears and he is crying that he doesn't know how to finish the story and she insists again... "You will... You do..." i don't know if this is taking it too far but I assume that she mean that if he wills it... he can do it... I don't know... he FINALLY!!!! FINALLY!!!! realizes... in spirit.... "I'm GOING TO DIE"... and she smiles... because he finally came to the realization and he is now free again... freeing himself from the realm of opposites... he is no longer burdened by Death... so then... he jumps out of the bubble and leaves the dying tree behind... because he is no longer attached to it... he goes into meditation lotus pose... for what??? to finish the story...

realm two... he appears to the ANGEL (the mayan priest)... and the Mayan recognizes him as "THE FIRST FATHER"... okay... follow me on this... they show the conquistador... standing in front of him... then the camera shows the Mayan's eyes... and he says, something like, "First father I didn't recognize you"... then... they show bald, meditating TOM... then... back to the Mayan as he kneels and offers his neck to TOMAS... because his job is complete... only the first father can eat from the tree of life... and he recognized TOMAS as the first father... then they show the conquistador... killing the MAYAN... then enters into the patio to eat from the tree...

realm one... Tom buries Lizzy and begins to move on... still searching a cure for death...

realm two... the conquistador eats from the sap of the tree and his eyes open up.... and he tries to put on the ring as a symbol that his mission is complete...

realm three... still in lotus pose... tom pulls out the ring and tries to put it on...

realm two... a loud ringing in the conquistador's ears... and he is not able to put on the ring... he then is consumed by the tree and becomes a part of it... in other words... he dies...

realm three... he puts on the ring... and then is consumed by the nebula... and seed is plucked from a tree... and it ends there...

The lesson here? Death is the road to awe... we are all going to die... it is inevitable... and the way to eternal life... is through freedom from the world of opposites... we live in an impermanent world... everything in this physical realm goes through a process of birth and death... it is the nature... but only we... have the ability to call it... "GOOD"... or "EVIL"... when we are free from these ideas and concepts... then we realize that there is only ONE LIFE... the life of GOD... sustaining ALL of life... these bodies... they were always meant to be dropped like we drop our garments at the end of the day... but something else within... does not die and does not depend on anything MATERIAL... it is self sustained... the sooner we stop trying to save it... the sooner we will reach that bliss... AKA... Awe...

things to notice in the film... the three stars in a sort of triangular shape appear in all realms... this shows that they're all tied together...

The queen's dress when shown from birds eye view has the pattern of the tree...

when the queen gives her the mission she says, "let in the morning light.." and then says something about even the darkest shadows fear the light... or something like that... then when lizzy dies in the hospital (which by the way has the same pattern on the floor as the palace when shown from birds eye view... i think) Tom freaks out and knocks over the blinds... and lets in the morning light...

when tom is talking on the phone in the hallway of the hospital... you can see two lights behind him... like the stars in the sky are shown behind the conquistador...

anyways.. it's late.. i gots to go... thanks for reading...

[Winston]

More philosophical interpretations of "The Fountain".

[Winston]

Past life therapist explains the meaning of the movie "The Fountain". Very fascinating.

[Winston]

In-depth review of "Cloud Atlas (2012)" a masterpiece movie about multiple past lives of the same characters and how they are intertwined. 6 past lives are featured which makes it confusing and requires multiple viewings. It's almost 3 hours long and has Tom Hanks in it too. It's ok but has too much social justice preaching. There is a gay love scene and an anti-slavery diatribe and futuristic world that preaches against objectifying women with an Asian android woman who isn't even that attractive. lol. I don't understand why liberals don't want us to like sexy women when it's natural and in our genes?



A shorter analysis of the film.

[Winston]

Bishop Barron reviews the movie "The Tree of Life" from 2011 starring Brad Pitt and Sean Penn. It's a weird movie that very few people understand and shows a struggling family in the 1950s along with scenes of the creation of the world and universe. I guess there's many ways of interpreting that and it's very subjective. Bishop Barron sees a "Book of Job" theme in it.



Why "The Tree of Life" is an existential masterpiece.

[Winston]

Some inspiring meaningful films worth checking out.

Fearless (1993)

Starring Jeff Bridges. After surviving a plane crash, a man is transformed and becomes enlightened and loses all sense of fear. Shows that sometimes you have to lose life to gain it.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106881/?ref_=ttmc_mc_tt

Dead Poets Society (1989)

Starring Robin Williams. A teacher inspires students to be nonconformist and live life to the fullest.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097165/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Anti-conformity at its most inspiring.
Do not go where society tells you to. Find the things you love and pursue them with every fibre of your being until the day you die. That's the message I took from Dead Poets Society. Weird, inspiring and heartbreaking, DPS is a one of a kind film and one of the reasons Robin Williams is so renowned worldwide as not just a comedian, but a remarkable actor as well. After watching this movie you'll want to change the world. Amazing!

[Winston]

How to watch "The Tree of Life". It deals with existential questions like the Book of Job.

[Winston]

Check out this video about the movie "Knight of Cups" starring Christian Bale about a playboy in LA seeking for meaning and existentialism because he's tired of having sex with hot models in LA. lol. So basically, any guy can get hot sexy models in LA and become a hedonist, like it's a normal thing, but it's all empty ultimately? lol. I wouldn't feel empty if I was getting hot women in LA. Come on. This is ridiculous. Why do the movies always make it look like it's easy and ok to pick up women in the US? lol

[Tsar]

The Discovery (2017)

The afterlife is proven and suicide skyrockets.

[Winston]

Interesting movie where C.S. Lewis meets Sigmund Freud and debate the existence of God and other things. They didn't meet in real life, so this is a mock debate of what would have happened had they met. @MrMan might find this interesting. See trailer and info below. It stars the legendary Anthony Hopkins.

Freud's Last Session (2023)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20420628/

"Psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud invites professor C.S. Lewis to debate the existence of God, Freud's unique relationship with his daughter, and Lewis' unconventional relationship with his best friend's mother."