Are people hypocritical in admiring/praising the selfless?

[Winston]

Here's a thought. Aren't most people hypocritical in that they will praise and admire those who are selfless and self-sacrificing, yet they themselves will not choose to be selfless or self-sacrificing?

I mean, why admire or praise something that you yourself would not want to become? lol. Funny and ironic isn't it?

[momopi]

Here's a thought. Aren't most people hypocritical in that they will praise and admire those who are selfless and self-sacrificing, yet they themselves will not choose to be selfless or self-sacrificing?
I mean, why admire or praise something that you yourself would not want to become? lol. Funny and ironic isn't it?

Here is a list of California firemen who died in the line of duty, listed by year:
http://www.cafirefoundation.org/go/cff/ ... 3D4DCB64EE

Not everyone is cut out for this kind of job:


I probably wouldn't last 15 mins combating a wildfire (heat transfer warms the air to 1,470 F) on the hill, but I sure do appreciate those who stood and fought for my life and property.

[Rock]

Here's a thought. Aren't most people hypocritical in that they will praise and admire those who are selfless and self-sacrificing, yet they themselves will not choose to be selfless or self-sacrificing?

I mean, why admire or praise something that you yourself would not want to become? lol. Funny and ironic isn't it?

I think that's the point. If it were easy and painless, there would be nothing to admire or be impressed by.

I admire and respect little guys who stand-up to big bullies for the sake of principal or to help out other victims and get beaten-up badly, even to the point of requiring medical treatment. But I may choose not to copy their behavior out of self interest and/or fear. Many people are like that. Fear and selfishness are hard for people to control in themselves. I'm sure many would like to become braver and more selfless but just do not know how.

[Winston]

Question:

Why is selflessness a virtue? Why is it a "good thing" to not care about your own needs? I don't get it. Why would having a philosphy that "Other people are more important than me" be a good thing? On what basis? Why is sacrificing yourself or devaluing your own life considered virtuous or even a "good thing"?

If one gave away everything he had and all his food and starved to death on the street, would that be a virtuous thing? At what point does selflessness become stupidity or suicide?

[Think Different]

Question:

Why is selflessness a virtue? Why is it a "good thing" to not care about your own needs? I don't get it. Why would having a philosphy that "Other people are more important than me" be a good thing? On what basis? Why is sacrificing yourself or devaluing your own life considered virtuous or even a "good thing"?

If one gave away everything he had and all his food and starved to death on the street, would that be a virtuous thing? At what point does selflessness become stupidity or suicide?

Because if everyone were just an island unto themselves and didn't care about anyone or anything but themselves, this world would be a pure hell to be in. If you take the philosophical stance that the good you see around you is "weakness" or to be mocked, then you are no better than such people. We have two choices in life: to be a force for good, or a force for evil; light vs. darkness; white vs. black (dualism); etc. It doesn't have to be a religious thing. This is a universal truth, explained in different ways through different religious traditions. Until modern society began to hate itself, society had always been about preserving itself, looking towards a better future, and helping those less fortunate or weaker than themselves.

A person who rejects this truth is just a parasite on the face of the planet and would do better to just kill themselves now or to have never been born in the first place.

[Winston]

Question:

Why is selflessness a virtue? Why is it a "good thing" to not care about your own needs? I don't get it. Why would having a philosphy that "Other people are more important than me" be a good thing? On what basis? Why is sacrificing yourself or devaluing your own life considered virtuous or even a "good thing"?

If one gave away everything he had and all his food and starved to death on the street, would that be a virtuous thing? At what point does selflessness become stupidity or suicide?

Because if everyone were just an island unto themselves and didn't care about anyone or anything but themselves, this world would be a pure hell to be in. If you take the philosophical stance that the good you see around you is "weakness" or to be mocked, then you are no better than such people. We have two choices in life: to be a force for good, or a force for evil; light vs. darkness; white vs. black (dualism); etc. It doesn't have to be a religious thing. This is a universal truth, explained in different ways through different religious traditions. Until modern society began to hate itself, society had always been about preserving itself, looking towards a better future, and helping those less fortunate or weaker than themselves.

A person who rejects this truth is just a parasite on the face of the planet and would do better to just kill themselves now or to have never been born in the first place.

What does that have to do with my question? Did you understand my question? I am not arguing for total selfishness. Of course being good and helping others is a good thing. But why is devaluing your life or sacrificing yourself for others considered virtuous?

If you were on the Titanic and were chosen to enter a lifeboat, would it be a "good" thing for you to give up th boat and let another have it, so that you could drow on the sinking ship? If you did that, that person would consider you his hero, but would that be a good thing, for you to give up your own life for another?

Why don't you donate all your assets to the poor, until you're broke and can't eat or travel abroad? Would that be a good and virtuous thing? If so, why? If not, why not, since selflessness is a virtue right? Where do you draw the line between selflessness and the rejection of self?

If you planned to go to China, would you give up your plan so that you could take your travel money and help poor people around you? Would that be a good thing?

[keius]

I wouldn't sacrifice my life for anyone's, with the possible exception of my kid or my wife. Depends on the circumstances. I'm not a hypocrite. People take risks. That's what firemen and cops do. They don't necessarily have to sacrifice anything.
Would i risk my life to save my parent's lives? Yes. Would i sacrifice my life for them? No.

Any group of firemen who rush into a fire knowing that some of them are definitely going to die to save some 70 year old lady are a bunch of total f'ing idiots. There is nothing admirable about that. If half of them died and they managed to save the old lady...or god forbid, some mangy pooch, i'd be the last person to call them admirable.

A fireman that risks his life to save a dog? An idiot in my book, especially if he's got family.

A single fireman rushing up a burning building to break open a trapped door for a group of children, knowing that he still has a decent chance of making it out alive with some children alive....that is admirable.
When i was single, i know i could have done that. With a family now, there's no way i'd risk my family like that...if something happened to me...

It's all relative to the scale of the risk anyway. Is Bill Gates admirable for starting his foundation and putting that much money into it? To me, the answer is NO.
It's no more admirable than me sending a check every month to provide for 3 children in Ethiopia so they have somewhat more tolerable living conditions. Why? Because he hasn't actually risked or sacrificed jack shit.
He preferred that over losing it all to taxes when he dies. And he gets all the great PR while he's alive. And his foundation is passing that money around slowly, ever so slowly. Just think about it.

BTW, absolute selflessness is plain stupid. As to your 4 questions/examples, I'd say "NO", i don't find any of those things admirable. They are too absolute/extreme. But it does depend on the situation. Titanic - 80 year old man giving up his spot on a life boat for a 10 yr old? That's admirable. Giving up a lifelong permanent move to China to help the poor? too extreme. Giving up a short vacation to China to help the poor. Sorta admirable. Donate all your assets to help the poor so that you'd become one of the poor that needed help? Idiot again. Rich person donating most of his wealth to help the poor while dropping himself down to a secure middle class lifestyle? Admirable but i sure couldn't do that.

[Rock]

Question:

Why is selflessness a virtue? Why is it a "good thing" to not care about your own needs? I don't get it. Why would having a philosphy that "Other people are more important than me" be a good thing? On what basis? Why is sacrificing yourself or devaluing your own life considered virtuous or even a "good thing"?

If one gave away everything he had and all his food and starved to death on the street, would that be a virtuous thing? At what point does selflessness become stupidity or suicide?

Look, people are generally selfish. They put No. 1 first in everything they do. Of course there are many exceptions to this but selfishness is the default programming in humans. When they have a wife and children, their 'self' often extends to these family members as well.

So why would a person act selflessly?

It may be due to cultural conditioning (ie brainwashing). He might be taught that its noble to die for his country in war and long to be remembered as some sort of hero.

It may be due to religious programming. If he does the right things here on earth (such as dying in a suicide bomb mission) he will go directly to paradise after his mortal life ends (boils back down to selfishness).

He may be living vicariously through his son. That implies he may see the son as an extension of himself and to die for his son makes sense since he is a healthier and stronger version of himself with a much longer expected lifespan. Personally, I've never understood how people can effectively transfer or project their own soul into the body of their child. I supposed they have a vivid imagination and able to eventually buy fully into to their own fantasies.

A seemingly selfish act might just be a calculated gamble. If I run into the burning building to save 5 kids and a dog, there is a small chance that I will be injured or die. But if I succeed, I will be a great hero in the community (just what my ego needs). I may even get a promotion or raise. If I don't run into the building, my colleagues may think I'm a coward. Those motives, if they exist, are selfish ones.

Now why do people generally appreciate, encourage, and even cheer people who act selflessly? Think about it. To a selfish person, the most ideal environment is one in which everyone else acts selflessly. He may then feel like some sort of emperor or king. A selfish person would probably love a world seemingly built around himself. But the reality for most people is that those around them are also for the most part selfish. Therefore, its easy to appreciate someone who appears to ignore self and act for the benefit of others. They are good for everyone including yourself.

If you are out at night walking alone and someone tries to rob you, how do you feel about the person who jumps out and protects you against the perp with a gun? How do you feel about the person who saves your son from a burning building? When people do such things, others will say to themselves, that could have been me or that could have been my son. And that guy did what he did. Wow, I sure appreciate having him around here. I will do my best to make him feel good and welcome here. I wish everyone was like that. Then I would never have to worry.

[Winston]

Question for you all:

If you could run into a burning building to save someone's life, and there was a 50 percent chance that you'd die if you did, and a 50 percent chance that you'd make it out alive with the person rescued, would you do it?

[Rock]

Question for you all:

If you could run into a burning building to save someone's life, and there was a 50 percent chance that you'd die if you did, and a 50 percent chance that you'd make it out alive with the person rescued, would you do it?

Its hard to answer that question sitting at a keyboard just imagining the scenario. When your adrenaline kicks-in, you might take risks you didn't realize you were capable of.

This is what I think I might do. If the person is in my immediate family or a close friend, I might go in. If its a stranger, I'm probably staying out. However, in the case of the stranger, there's a much higher chance I'm going in if its a child than if its an adult. If its a very old person, the chance is even lower. My rationale is that his/her life is about over anyway.

I generally avoid violence and always chose flight over fight when confronted by people who wanna fight or rob me. But a couple years ago at a Chinatown hotel lobby in Manhattan, I surprised myself. A dude upstairs had just stabbed a Chinese guy multiple times. He collapsed down the stairs and leaked enormous amounts of blood right in front of me on the floor. Guy at reception called 911 and a couple minutes later, a white guy came down the stairs and briskly walked out. The Chinese guy, about to go in shock, mumbled that the guy was the stabber. So I took off and chased after him for a block or two. When I saw a group of cop cars with sirens on, I flagged one down and told him what the guy right ahead of me had just done. They were responding to the same case and on way to the hotel. A couple of them quickly caught up with and cuffed the guy. The rest went with me back to hotel. By then, the Chinese guy was shaking on the floor in extreme shock and EMT took him away. District attorney on case later tole me he barely survived.

[Winston]

What do you guys think about helping poor Filipina's families who refuse to work and aren't intelligent enough to hold a job at McDonald's? Do you think they are worth helping, even if you know from experience that they will never change?

Some expat friends told me that all the money they sent to their wife's family went to total waste, and was never used to better themselves. After a while, it was obvious that they had a "stupid gene" and could never improve, and remained incompetent in basic things. They said "It would seem that some people are born to be slum dwellers. It's not just about being poor."

Is it selfish not to help your girlfriend/wife's family, even if they are starving and need to pay medical expenses? Or is it not your obligation and therefore not your business and therefore not selfish? What do you think?

PS - I think generous people like Ladislav should take note of this. If sending money to Filipinas who give most of it to their families turns out to be a total waste, because her family never improves and is always in a rut and is hopeless, then it's better not to do it. If you wish to be generous, then be generous to people who DESERVE your generosity, such as bright people with potential who just need a chance in life, not to people who always make the dumbest decisions and never improve. Makes logical sense right? Simple rule is, to live more efficiently, learn to cut inefficient expenditures. Ladislav, you understand the logic of that right?

PS 2 - I know one guy who was giving like 30,000p a month to his wife's family. When they were making the dumbest decisions in their spending patterns, he stopped. At that point, they threatened him and showed their true colors. He learned at that point, that he had been supporting bad people all along. Thus, generosity is not always a good thing. Some people don't deserve it. Wouldn't you agree Ladislav?

[ladislav]

I agree. While some of my money did go to waste with dishonest people out there, most of it was spent on education and people getting degrees. I am proud to say that because of my help quite a few people are now standing on their own two feet and working.
As far as people with less than average intelligence, maybe you can invest in something with them that requires less than average intelligence- such as a stall selling chicken or something like that.
There are of course people who are beyond help and well, yeah, those should not be assisted except with advice. And it is up to them if they want to take it.
Before getting involved with a girl, one needs to see the family situation.
In your case, it is a fait accompli so, you will just have to deal with it in an ad hoc manner.